IC just for the zergs now

hesobad

No more solo Tel Var farming with only 2 IC servers, there is constantly a zerg of people in there. I used to love logging onto shor, and going in there for a few hours just soloing the bosses and making insane Tel Var.... not anymore

ellahellabella

It was never meant to be a farming ground. It was meant to be a different PvP area...
Awesome to hear that it's active now!

Sanctum74

Plenty of ways to farm in this game to make $$$, glad to see it's back to being a pvp zone again.

VaranisArano

Before Elsweyr, people complained that IC was dead except for two weeks out of the year during the IC event.

After Elsweyr, people complain that IC isn't dead and can't be used as their personal PVE farming ground.

BRogueNZ

zerg is the way, to the still connected go the spoils.

IxSTALKERxI

WTS Hakeijo's 20k each.

Qbiken

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

WTS Hakeijo's 20k each.

Probably main reason why I love IC becoming it's own instance/campaign

Insco851

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

WTS Hakeijo's 20k each.

FACTS

Revokus

IC is dead only 1 bar all the time since elsweyr launch means none is interested in IC anymore. Glad I made 500k telvar before the patch in a couple of hours.

DisgracefulMind

Revokus wrote: »

IC is dead only 1 bar all the time since elsweyr launch means none is interested in IC anymore. Glad I made 500k telvar before the patch in a couple of hours.

It's not even been that long since the patch. People still doing content and leveling.

Derra

I wish they would have capped the group size to 6 in there - there´s no large scale objectives that would require anything more.

Kadoin

Don't forget the tanky DKs and NBs that wait until you fight mobs or a boss to attack you...

Maxdevil

Im hopping that zoz add 1-2 campaign

Qbiken

Derra wrote: »

I wish they would have capped the group size to 6 in there - there´s no large scale objectives that would require anything more.

I´d rather not see IC becoming a GvG version of Aliki´r......

IC needs population, ZOS just fails time and time again to make people go there....

Adernath

The main motivation for me to go into IC is to farm TV stones. Although the loss of these stones produces a certain thrill, it does not encourage much PvP. In order to make IC a more attractive PvP place the loss of the TV stones upon death should be reduced OR the gain could be reduced significantly but no loss upon death.

zyk

Adernath wrote: »

The main motivation for me to go into IC is to farm TV stones. Although the loss of these stones produces a certain thrill, it does not encourage much PvP. In order to make IC a more attractive PvP place the loss of the TV stones upon death should be reduced OR the gain could be reduced significantly but no loss upon death.

Actually, it's the opposite. To encourage PVP, increase the amount lost to other players so other players go after each other.

A great thing about IC is it is the only source for some items. Therefore if those things become less abundant in the marketplace, their value rises and the incentive to fight for Telvar increases. This ensures IC will always be attractive to profit seekers who can handle themselves in battle.

ZOS should let IC be the hardcore zone it was designed to be.

Katahdin

zyk wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

The main motivation for me to go into IC is to farm TV stones. Although the loss of these stones produces a certain thrill, it does not encourage much PvP. In order to make IC a more attractive PvP place the loss of the TV stones upon death should be reduced OR the gain could be reduced significantly but no loss upon death.

Actually, it's the opposite. To encourage PVP, increase the amount lost to other players so other players go after each other.

ZOS should let IC be the hardcore zone it was designed to be.

Then there will be zero farmers and only gankers and pvpers with no one to farm and no one will get TV. PvPers get bored with no easy targets and IC is a dead zone again.

This is what happened when it was 80% loss to players, the farmers stopped coming because it was just not worth it for what you got. At least with 50%, you can come out out it with something.

Manyak

I was in IC with my guild last night and it was soooo much fun going against EP and DC massive numbers. We will definitely be going to IC often. Blessed be ISKRA’s fruit and come play with us.

SilverPaws

I met few zergs there, but not enough.. Need more to fight !

Ramber

yes they zerg there but for the love of all that is holy WHY??? lol there is nothing to earn by doing so, IC has no good rewards and is why it was dead to begin with and will be dead again after this wave wears off.

Revokus

Ramber wrote: »

yes they zerg there but for the love of all that is holy WHY??? lol there is nothing to earn by doing so, IC has no good rewards and is why it was dead to begin with and will be dead again after this wave wears off.

Yeah the telvar leeching for when you are more than 2 players on a boss is a MAJOR turn off. This mechanic has no logic. Zerg gameplay does not belong in there. I always feel bad when someone wants to group with me and my friend in there and I have to tell him that he is leeching..what kind of game has a mechanic like that ?

Adernath

zyk wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

The main motivation for me to go into IC is to farm TV stones. Although the loss of these stones produces a certain thrill, it does not encourage much PvP. In order to make IC a more attractive PvP place the loss of the TV stones upon death should be reduced OR the gain could be reduced significantly but no loss upon death.

Actually, it's the opposite. To encourage PVP, increase the amount lost to other players so other players go after each other.

Everyone with 2 brain cells in their head and carrying a large amount of TV stones will obviously be more cautious in choosing their opponents and therefore tend to avoid opponent players more often.

Also, I have never encountered someone who is seriously farming TV if there is a large zerg of the opposing team circling around -- let alone trying to farm players for their TV stones. Because sooner or later they will get killed. It is way too risky for too little gain.

Fact is that PvP involves usually dying on both sides, and the current mechanism encourages people to play safe mode. This is not the case in the cyro map.

fred4

Adernath wrote: »

Everyone with 2 brain cells in their head and carrying a large amount of TV stones will obviously be more cautious in choosing their opponents and therefore tend to avoid opponent players more often.

Or they're a pair of pet sorcs in Imperial Physique, who nuke everything in their path and streak away when they can't. It pays to play super aggressively, wearing that set, and the synergy with pet sorc - already a strong spec - continues to be disgusting. Some players are certainly confident and capable enough to don Imperial Physique from the get go.

Also, I have never encountered someone who is seriously farming TV if there is a large zerg of the opposing team circling around

True, but it depends on the colour of the flags. If the zerg is only beginning to turn them, they are busy, and it can actually be a good time to farm. I guess you are talking about sustained farming, where you amass 100K Tel Var in no time, by soling bosses. Well, yeah, I think those days are over.

let alone trying to farm players for their TV stones. Because sooner or later they will get killed. It is way too risky for too little gain.

False. All you need is to gank one player for a big score, then you cloak away and use a retreat sigil. I now come across many inexperienced players carrying a lot of stones or trying Imperial Physique for the first time. It's nightblade heaven. As a nightblade, in particular, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain, as you can go straight back into cloak and bank. Even if you don't survive the fight, but kill one player, you keep 1/4 of their Tel Var. Not turning flags and giving the opposing faction a false sense of security is a valid tactic as a nightblade.

Define "too little gain". Prices for Hakeijo have gone up on PC EU and will either continue to do so, or IC will simply attract a different audience. Players, like me, who are there first for PvP and farming only when it's feasible.

Fact is that PvP involves usually dying on both sides, and the current mechanism encourages people to play safe mode. This is not the case in the cyro map.

I don't really feel IC is different from Cyro in that regard. BGs is where I feel playing it safe truly has no value. In Cyro I don't wish to ride, and forward camps are only a one time get out of jail free card, before timeout. In IC I keep half the Tel Var of the guys I take with me. Mostly though, I'm either there to PvP or to make Tel Var, not both, and conscious of what I'm trying to accomplish at a given point in time. Opportunities arise in many forms, not least squirreling a boss away in a building while the zergs fight it out.

Adernath

fred4 wrote: »

Or they're a pair of pet sorcs in Imperial Physique, who nuke everything in their path and streak away when they can't. It pays to play super aggressively, wearing that set, and the synergy with pet sorc - already a strong spec - continues to be disgusting. Some players are certainly confident and capable enough to don Imperial Physique from the get go.

False. All you need is to gank one player for a big score, then you cloak away and use a retreat sigil. I now come across many inexperienced players carrying a lot of stones or trying Imperial Physique for the first time. It's nightblade heaven. As a nightblade, in particular, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain, as you can go straight back into cloak and bank. Even if you don't survive the fight, but kill one player, you keep 1/4 of their Tel Var. Not turning flags and giving the opposing faction a false sense of security is a valid tactic as a nightblade.

Of course there are examples of players who can run away pretty well - but they are 1) in a minority 2) they still keep dying from time to time. Whenever I encounter such players it is clear to me that they do not even farm TV but they just run around to have fun with their build. So be it, but they will remain in the minority. And if you want to see a change in IC population you need to think from the perspective of a new player.

Also, your statement with 1/4 is not quite correct, because the loss of TV depends on the total amount you carry. Only if you start with 0 TV in your bags then you can be sure to end up with some TV in the end, regardless of how often you die. You also did not take into account any possible TV multipliers. Due to these multipliers, starting with 0 TV is not optimal for example.

fred4 wrote: »

Define "too little gain". Prices for Hakeijo have gone up on PC EU and will either continue to do so, or IC will simply attract a different audience. Players, like me, who are there first for PvP and farming only when it's feasible.

Players like me go there for the fun of PvP but in particular for the TV stones (if I just want pure PvP I do a battleground). And nearly everyone else with whom I go there are likewise minded. With 'gain' I therefore mean the part where you farm TV stones. I will simple move to some other place if I see that there is too much opposition on the map to farm TV stones or if I can not find interesting fights other than running away from a zerg. However, I will usually stay if the fights are balanced. This includes me getting killed from time to time. Farming TV under such circumstances is just too little gain for me. In this case I store the TV and remain for the fun. However, the main objective is/was originally to dominate the map in order to farm TV. The possibility to loose half of the amount if you get yourself in a bad situation is an obvious reason to me that not many find IC attractive.

A simple change could be to loose a fixed amount of TV stones upon death instead of a relative loss. Just a suggestion.

fred4

Adernath wrote: »

Due to these multipliers, starting with 0 TV is not optimal for example.

It is, if you only intend to gank people , which you will when all the flags belong to another faction.

However, the main objective is/was originally to dominate the map in order to farm TV. The possibility to loose half of the amount if you get yourself in a bad situation is an obvious reason to me that not many find IC attractive.

That was just a phase of IC, not the original design, when you think about it. In terms of what makes IC attractive, it is quite clear - at least on PC EU - that far more players find it attractive now. I remember last time IC was changed. It was busy for no more than a week. This time the amount of players and names I haven't seen shows no sign of abating. Ease of access has made IC more attractive, no doubt about it. You got to wonder what took ZOS so long.

As someone who played IC from the beginning I'm even still ambivalent about the flags and (boss) farming multipliers, although I do value having Hakeijos in every build, and the apothecary parcels.

A simple change could be to loose a fixed amount of TV stones upon death instead of a relative loss. Just a suggestion.

Good grief, no. If you need to be THAT comfortable, go and make your gold in PvE land. Do crafting writs or something. There are two ways of farming: PvE and players. The 50% split is about right. One of the reasons I like IC is the danger when I solo PvE farm, that my PvP skills matter, and the payoff when I succeed.

Mazbt

I had fun recently with my guild in IC. Group didn't go bigger than 12 and were fighting at least 3 other groups roaming around , as big or bigger. We were there mostly for the fights, and if it was empty or had no large groups around, we were just going to go back up to cyro.

Adernath

fred4 wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

Due to these multipliers, starting with 0 TV is not optimal for example.

It is, if you only intend to gank people , which you will when all the flags belong to another faction.

Once again you talk from a very particular perspective -- frankly, who cares about ganking in IC? Most people have no time to play this -- in my opinion pretty boring -- playstyle. From my experience it is a very minor group of people doing that and certainly not the first intention of a new player heading to IC. You should instead follow my reasoning and think from the perspective of a new player which is going to IC primarily to get *rewards* i.e. farm TV stones. If they farm like 1-2 hours and get killed by a GO and his gang in the end it is very demotivating for these people to lose their precious time farming just because of that. (Believe it or not but the time a causal player spent in the game is usually way more precious than someone who can play 24/7)

Therefore the mechanism to loose TV should in my opinion -- and in particular -- *not* encourage a ganking like playstile. This is something which just drives new players away. What I want to see is more open PvP with medium scaled groups where people are less afraid of loosing a handfull of TV upon death, and have some opportunity to store their TV if the IC 'weather' gets rougher.

fred4 wrote: »

Good grief, no. If you need to be THAT comfortable, go and make your gold in PvE land. Do crafting writs or something.

I am not going to engage with arguments involving such trolling.

fred4

Adernath, IMO making content too forgiving isn't conducive to the long-term replay value of IC. Tel Var are the rewards for people who have learnt to PvP and satisfy the minimum PvE requirements of IC. You can't argue with the fact that scoring Tel Var off each other was part of ZOS original design goals. The multiplier from the flags further ties Tel Var gain to PvP.

What entitles a new player to those rewards? It's not like they truly need them. You need very little Tel Var to buy the odd armor set that's otherwise hard to get. Then it's Hakeijo and Apothecary Parcels forever after, which are also available in guild stores.

I also think you aren't covering the many reasons why casual players go there, which have nothing to do with Tel Var. They go for the quests, the fishing achievement, the boss achievement, the skyshards, the Molag Bal skin and, perhaps, to level a character. Those people are often left alone, including by me. If someone from another faction needs help with a questline, I even occasionally help them.

It's clear you don't approve. You'd rather that steady work be rewarded than live in the Wild West that is IC. Here's the thing. The game is huge and IC is just a tiny part of it. Some of us like the gameplay very much. Please leave us this small area.

I get the argument that, if you bought the DLC (you're not ESO+), you might feel cheated by content that isn't suitable for your character (yet). I'd have no problem with a big warning, reminding buyers that IC is a PvP area.

Now let's get to this quote:

Once again you talk from a very particular perspective -- frankly, who cares about ganking in IC? Most people have no time to play this -- in my opinion pretty boring -- playstyle.

You didn't like my putdown, comparing your watered down version of IC to crafting writs. Yeah, that was meant as a putdown, but please don't act like this isn't exactly the same. It's entirely subjective. You think ganking is boring. I think Tel Var farming without the risk of losing 50% to PvP would be almost as boring as crafting writs.

By the way, I was talking about ganking, because I play a nightblade. There are many seasoned PvPers in IC, other than nightblades, who are just as lethal to new players. Many PvPers play super-aggressively, as they assume (often correctly) that every player they see could belong to a zerg that's just around the corner.

disintegr8

IC differs from the rest of Cyrodiil in that the majority of players are there just to kill other players. While this can be justified by saying you are Tel Var farming, it is only a pretense and most of them actually get their kicks from killing.

While there are people who simply focus on killing in above ground Cyrodiil, for the most part you die while attacking or defending something, so it is somewhat of a noble death for a greater cause.

In nearly 4 years of playing this game I've never found a reason to need Tel Var, so unless I enjoy trying to kill people and dying a lot - which I do not - there is very little reason for me to go into IC. Even if I were to 'git gud', as someone who generally run solo, the zergs would still kill me.

fred4

disintegr8 wrote: »

IC differs from the rest of Cyrodiil in that the majority of players are there just to kill other players. While this can be justified by saying you are Tel Var farming, it is only a pretense and most of them actually get their kicks from killing.

Of course we're there to PvP. Both really.

While there are people who simply focus on killing in above ground Cyrodiil, for the most part you die while attacking or defending something, so it is somewhat of a noble death for a greater cause.

There are Cyro players, playing for a cause. There are small-scalers occupying resources, but never keeps. There are streamers. There are tanks, seeing how many people they can take on. There are duellers late at night. There are people abusing scrolls to troll players.

In nearly 4 years of playing this game I've never found a reason to need Tel Var, so unless I enjoy trying to kill people and dying a lot - which I do not - there is very little reason for me to go into IC. Even if I were to 'git gud', as someone who generally run solo, the zergs would still kill me.

Two big reasons to go to IC. Escaping the lag and not having to ride, if you die. You also don't have to traverse half of Cyro to regroup with your guildies, if you find yourself stuck in combat.

Mr_Walker

Qbiken wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I wish they would have capped the group size to 6 in there - there´s no large scale objectives that would require anything more.

I´d rather not see IC becoming a GvG version of Aliki´r......

IC needs population, ZOS just fails time and time again to make people go there....

That's because any ganker can, with minimal risk, steal half your TV stones.

Risk Vs Reward should apply to the gankers, with a multiplier of what they can take based on what they are carrying. TV multiplier / 100 would be appropriate.