Issue with Stam Alts

Iskiab

I’m having difficulties whenever I try to make a stamina alt and am looking for advice.

So my main is a magicka class and I already have 5 magicka toons I sometimes pvp with, and do well with them.

The issue is whenever I try to make a stamina alt. First attempt was a stamblade I leveled in BGs. I did really well sub 50, typically going maybe 15-2. Then I got to 50 and just got wrecked and changed it to a magblade.

I just got my Stamnecro to 50 and am having the same issue. Did well sub-50 and then get destroyed at 50.

Issue seems to be the burst at 50 is way higher, I’m taking a ton more damage and everyone’s wardens or sorcs with major expedition so I’m being kited. I saw a 7k crystal frag in my death recap!

So here’s my questions/dilemma:
1. Am I doing something wrong as stamina? Do stam and mag play so completely different and is it a L2P issue and I should be watching videos?
2. Am I shooting myself in the foot by leveling in BGs, so I’m straight to higher MMR when I’m not proficient with the class?

Any advice would be appreciated.

UndeniablyAVG

I don't think that the under 50 matches would effect your MMR to any real extent, although that is purely a guess. I seem to play and win a lot of BG's before facing any different opponents.

Stam and Mag do play very differently though, maybe if you let us know a bit more about your stam build we can help there.

Vapirko

Yes it’s a L2P issue. But stamina isn’t super OP as people like to claim who don’t play stam toons. DBoS won’t solve all your problems and neither does vigor.

If you’re wearing a decent setup and bloodspawn and still having problems 1 protective trait might help you. If you’re playing medium, well, good luck.

Iskiab

I’m wearing 5x heavy, 2 med, 2x protective plus blood spawn. 30k health and still felt squishy. With all my buffs up I’m supposed to be at 33k resistance.

Feels like burst is about double that of sub-50. Is that normal?

Thogard

Stam dps requires significantly more situational awareness than mag. Every time you go in, you’re commiting to the fight far more than a mag player DPSing from range.

Lowbie BGs are also disproportionately weighted for MMR

It’s almost certainly a combination of the two factors you mentioned.

BuddyAces

Thogard wrote: »

Stam dps requires significantly more situational awareness than mag. Every time you go in, you’re commiting to the fight far more than a mag player DPSing from range.

Lowbie BGs are also disproportionately weighted for MMR

It’s almost certainly a combination of the two factors you mentioned.

What's amazing (or sad) is that when I read something on the PvP forums that is smart, it's going to be 1 of maybe 5 people that posted it.

Read something, look at who posted it, yep it's Thoggy.

Halrloprillalar

Stam needs more careful timing

Noctus

i have some comparable problems. there are actually classes i rly cant play and classes which i play masterfully. for example im a beast with dk but suck on warden.

its just ur used to one or two playstyles and it wont carry over to another class.

its like learning everything over again.

also if u do well in sub 50 u immadiately get pushed into high mmr 50 i think. u have no real chance of slowly getting to know ur character in 50+.

i remember how i first started out on my main characters in bg. i was mediocre at best and SLOWLY worked my way up to high mmr while getting better each day.

as things stand now people rly have a bad experience in bg they are immadiately thrown into a sharktank. it must be rly demotivating for ppl a horrible experience.

Iskiab

Yea, especially when I haven’t finalized my build yet. Something can work sub-50 and get trounced at 50.

Lesson learned, powerlevel to 50 before trying pvp.

Noctus

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, especially when I haven’t finalized my build yet. Something can work sub-50 and get trounced at 50.

Lesson learned, powerlevel to 50 before trying pvp.

that sub 50 mmr carries on to 50+ mmr is just flawed . low mmr and high mmr are very different at 50+. high mmr people are very tanky and try sticking together, ur chances of bursting anyone down are very slim. in low mmr people dont care about survivability much and end up with glasscannon builds which u can easily outplay especially when they spread out like headless chicken. glasscannon builds on high mmr are rly only for people that are very experienced and know when to fight and when not.

ChunkyCat

SacredEarth

Iskiab wrote: »

I’m having difficulties whenever I try to make a stamina alt and am looking for advice.

So my main is a magicka class and I already have 5 magicka toons I sometimes pvp with, and do well with them.

The issue is whenever I try to make a stamina alt. First attempt was a stamblade I leveled in BGs. I did really well sub 50, typically going maybe 15-2. Then I got to 50 and just got wrecked and changed it to a magblade.

I just got my Stamnecro to 50 and am having the same issue. Did well sub-50 and then get destroyed at 50.

Issue seems to be the burst at 50 is way higher, I’m taking a ton more damage and everyone’s wardens or sorcs with major expedition so I’m being kited. I saw a 7k crystal frag in my death recap!

So here’s my questions/dilemma:
1. Am I doing something wrong as stamina? Do stam and mag play so completely different and is it a L2P issue and I should be watching videos?
2. Am I shooting myself in the foot by leveling in BGs, so I’m straight to higher MMR when I’m not proficient with the class?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Mostly a mag player here as well.

I absolutely destroyed with my Stamden in sub 50 BGs. even with out-leveled gear on... Now, I have buffed 35K resists with BS proc and I get melted in seconds if I miss any buff for a couple seconds or focused by 2 or more... I am still trying to learn stam tho, roll dodge looks way too effective to not try it out :P

Part of this is that my controls freeze regardless of being stunned or even recently broken free, I just cant cast anything. I thought it was me mashing too many things at once, but I have been testing by stopping all other inputs except one and is still unresponsive... I am also getting immobilized randomly with no one around me at all. I can use abilities and block, I just can't run or walk. end side rant...

Iskiab

Never had that one with random immobilizations. One thing I’ve noticed is interrupts or knock backs cancel bar swopping. That’s been the biggest adjustment for me trying melee brawling, I’ll get knocked around and end up on the wrong bar wondering why my abilities aren’t working well.

I can see why so many melee stam go with permablocking, otherwise it’s really easy to get thrown off your game with cc.

Koensol

SacredEarth wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I’m having difficulties whenever I try to make a stamina alt and am looking for advice.

So my main is a magicka class and I already have 5 magicka toons I sometimes pvp with, and do well with them.

The issue is whenever I try to make a stamina alt. First attempt was a stamblade I leveled in BGs. I did really well sub 50, typically going maybe 15-2. Then I got to 50 and just got wrecked and changed it to a magblade.

I just got my Stamnecro to 50 and am having the same issue. Did well sub-50 and then get destroyed at 50.

Issue seems to be the burst at 50 is way higher, I’m taking a ton more damage and everyone’s wardens or sorcs with major expedition so I’m being kited. I saw a 7k crystal frag in my death recap!

So here’s my questions/dilemma:
1. Am I doing something wrong as stamina? Do stam and mag play so completely different and is it a L2P issue and I should be watching videos?
2. Am I shooting myself in the foot by leveling in BGs, so I’m straight to higher MMR when I’m not proficient with the class?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Mostly a mag player here as well.

I absolutely destroyed with my Stamden in sub 50 BGs. even with out-leveled gear on... Now, I have buffed 35K resists with BS proc and I get melted in seconds if I miss any buff for a couple seconds or focused by 2 or more... I am still trying to learn stam tho, roll dodge looks way too effective to not try it out :P

Part of this is that my controls freeze regardless of being stunned or even recently broken free, I just cant cast anything. I thought it was me mashing too many things at once, but I have been testing by stopping all other inputs except one and is still unresponsive... I am also getting immobilized randomly with no one around me at all. I can use abilities and block, I just can't run or walk. end side rant...

@SacredEarth Are you playing with a wireless keyboard/mouse, perhaps? Because that exact thing happened to me when I was playing with one. They lose connection for small amounts of time during which no input will register.

Jim6270

there is a lot of good points in the post already .... but also on a stam toon it's not always usefull to go that much in to health... with lower health setups you have more stam/weaponPower/mag and the stam and weapon power turns in to more damage you do but also the more healing you do. if you can pressure people more they hit you less + when your rally/vigor etc ticks for a higher amount you will feel more resistant then standing in 30k health. And mag turns in to ether more utility, stam regain, sovival etc on most classes as well.

So lower your HP and get some more stats to aid you more then just standing still like a punching bag.

Iskiab

Jim6270 wrote: »

there is a lot of good points in the post already .... but also on a stam toon it's not always usefull to go that much in to health... with lower health setups you have more stam/weaponPower/mag and the stam and weapon power turns in to more damage you do but also the more healing you do. if you can pressure people more they hit you less + when your rally/vigor etc ticks for a higher amount you will feel more resistant then standing in 30k health. And mag turns in to ether more utility, stam regain, sovival etc on most classes as well.

So lower your HP and get some more stats to aid you more then just standing still like a punching bag.

Yea I went 30k purely because it’s a stamnecro so healing scales with your health value.

Another question: the BRP dw weapons that give you major protection for 3 seconds when you blade cloak. I just tried them out and they seem pretty crappy, is that the general consensus?

Waffennacht

Iskiab wrote: »

Jim6270 wrote: »

there is a lot of good points in the post already .... but also on a stam toon it's not always usefull to go that much in to health... with lower health setups you have more stam/weaponPower/mag and the stam and weapon power turns in to more damage you do but also the more healing you do. if you can pressure people more they hit you less + when your rally/vigor etc ticks for a higher amount you will feel more resistant then standing in 30k health. And mag turns in to ether more utility, stam regain, sovival etc on most classes as well.

So lower your HP and get some more stats to aid you more then just standing still like a punching bag.

Yea I went 30k purely because it’s a stamnecro so healing scales with your health value.

Another question: the BRP dw weapons that give you major protection for 3 seconds when you blade cloak. I just tried them out and they seem pretty crappy, is that the general consensus?

Yes they are crappy.

The necro heals you're talking about are actually % based (15% health) so in PvP 7.5% - aka bad for anything but a tank. Don't run them unless a pure tank - which you do not want to be in this meta.

For Stam necro you still want high wpn dmg etc like any other Stam build; if medium Armor HoTs and dodge roll are primary forms of mitigation; if still too squishy find a source of major protection.

Resistance is not good at all for mitigation right now, find other sources before putting resources into resistance.

Personally, in BGs, I am ranged,.with so many teams playing close and cooperatively, getting too close means death.

Iskiab

@Waffennacht Thanks, I’m trying DW and bow now and liking it a a lot. I’ll have to try the bleed dw weapons. I agree about range, I’m too much of a wuss to play melee, I feel like I get blown up too fast. Poison injection plus rending is really nice.

Waffennacht

Iskiab wrote: »

@Waffennacht Thanks, I’m trying DW and bow now and liking it a a lot. I’ll have to try the bleed dw weapons. I agree about range, I’m too much of a wuss to play melee, I feel like I get blown up too fast. Poison injection plus rending is really nice.

I'm set up for Bow/2h with 2h being all utilities.
Thanks to @Minno ' work with defensive calculations I'm tanky and still can hurt peeps.

If I wanted to go melee, DW masters + Essence thief with those passives should have great sustain and damage, I don't have masters DW nor the inclination to go melee so I don't try it.

I like how BB gives a major defile option for bow

Iskiab

@Waffennacht

Think I’m going to try this then? Stamina looks low to me, would something like this work?

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=157331

Something I noticed today while doing some BGs. It felt like I might not even need a melee spammable, I cycle through buffs so often and people quickly go into execute range so fast. Is that normal?

I’m not sure which is best for my front bar; blade cloak, the Ult building ability or race against time.

Waffennacht

I'm not a fan of the scythe. The skull is cool; are you sure you don't want lethal arrow or scattershot (for a hard CC + spot heal?)

Not a fan of the Goliath, huge fan of the colossus tho.

You don't have a lot of corpse making and with heavy movement I'd rather a snare remover over Necromantic Potency.

I prefer rat but you can't go wrong with that AoE mitigation of cloak either.

Max Stam isn't nearly as important as weapon damage and modifiers.

I just wonder how good is marksman without more bow abilities. It's a buff to Injection and that's it. It's good for sustain but there's better sets.

You can't beat essence thief if you can use it correctly, then there's hunt leader for sustain on a necro, then there's None pirate + infused.

Already having seventh I'd go with bone pirate for reliable sustain, unless you feel like essence can be used (going in and out of melee range)

Iskiab

Space is the issue, what would I take out? Any suggestions?

Reason I went marksman is I get the full 5 piece bonus on my back bar since that’s the bow bar. Yea, seems silly to only buff one attack but I do get the cost reduction. I thought about bone pirate but the problem is I’d break the set whenever I went to my front bar with the bleed weapons.

Minno

Word of warning for marksman, it doesn't come in anything but bow lol

Iskiab

That’s okay, I’m using it with a weapon set: master’s weapons (or planning to).

Arzharo

BGs are mag/range heaven. Stamina classes are really trash in bgs and non-cp overall.

Mitaka211

Well it's actually normal to die a lot more as a stamina unless you are bow focused.

I find it funny some people don't understand this but stamina players actually have to think where they are positioned and if it is worth it to engage the enemy team to begin with. Once you are in a fight you are pretty much stuck in there in the middle of everyone so getting away is a lot harder. Not to mention if your team is indecisive you will pretty much pay for it(most players in bgs are ranged magika casters in my experience )

For bgs build yourself to be really tanky and with stamnecro use Heavy armor and your whole build should be around weapon damage and ult generation. Stamnecro is basically one walking ult nothing more. All of his other tools are just decent at best.
I would say the scythe is your best friend. Your playstyle will be , once you stop doing stuff you die. As long as you are using that scythe you will be really hard to bring down. Also with necro you need to heavy attack , you just need to there is no going around it. I have 1600 stam regen and it's still hard to sustain.
My sets are Pirate Sceleton, Clever Alchemist and Hundings rage. Bloodspawn sometimes too. I tend to do really well with these sets and sometimes even too well. Let's put it this way, i have never achieved such high results with my main who is a stamplar. Necro just has the potential to wipe out an entire team with his ults , too bad they are OP and will get nerfed, once that happens stamnecro will be stamplars slow cousin.

Magika ranged is super easy mode compared to any close range stamina build tbh.

Iskiab

I think premades or a healer get around a lot of your issues Mikita. I usually BG heal and love having stamina in my group.

The issue are glass canon magdps are dead weight. They’re typically squishy and don’t have the survivability to push with the team. They’re sort of like NBs, you’re fighting short handed if you have one on your team. A full caster group is easy to wipe if everyone pushes, they’ll usually spam defensive abilities and not even fight back.

Worst part is they’re essentially playing solo and using the team as a shield. Then at the end they’ll go maybe 10-2 and think they’re amazing because of their individual KvD, but your chances of losing the BG go up for every one past 1 in your group.

MaxJrFTW

Stamina is a lot squishier in no cp. That's all there is to it. I started playing ESO as a stamplar, arguably the weakest class in no cp due to a lack of defensive tools. I was managing just fine, but a few months ago i changed to magplar to give it try. Once i got used to magicka i tried going back to stam and couldn't do it. Stamina requires a much faster pace and in and out playstyle.

That's why i find it funny when people say stamina classes dominate pvp. Cp and no cp are totally different, and there's a reason why high mmr bgs are dominated by mag/ranged classes.

Iskiab

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Stamina is a lot squishier in no cp. That's all there is to it. I started playing ESO as a stamplar, arguably the weakest class in no cp due to a lack of defensive tools. I was managing just fine, but a few months ago i changed to magplar to give it try. Once i got used to magicka i tried going back to stam and couldn't do it. Stamina requires a much faster pace and in and out playstyle.

That's why i find it funny when people say stamina classes dominate pvp. Cp and no cp are totally different, and there's a reason why high mmr bgs are dominated by mag/ranged classes.

Agreed yea. People talk like vigor is a full heal and I wonder what they’re smoking. I almost feel like I’m doing something wrong, if I’m half health it’ll take 3 vigors to bring me to full health.

Mojomonkeyman

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Stamina is a lot squishier in no cp. That's all there is to it. I started playing ESO as a stamplar, arguably the weakest class in no cp due to a lack of defensive tools. I was managing just fine, but a few months ago i changed to magplar to give it try. Once i got used to magicka i tried going back to stam and couldn't do it. Stamina requires a much faster pace and in and out playstyle.

That's why i find it funny when people say stamina classes dominate pvp. Cp and no cp are totally different, and there's a reason why high mmr bgs are dominated by mag/ranged classes.

For me its the complete opposite - stamina anything is basically the same one-dimensional hit & run stuff. Whenever I go back to my former stamsorcs mains from my current magica ones it feels like I'm playing a completely different (much easier) game. So easy to have impact, so easy to get in and out, so easy to execute, so easy everything. Imo, the only magicka class that comes close to the user-friendly, easy to learn- easy to master stamina experience is magsorc.

Iskiab

I just had an epiphany. I think all the classes take a degree of learning and making an alt and doing well isn’t as easy as people think.

Mojo’s post is how I feel trying stamina after a magblade and people say magblade’s tough to learn.

Every class but except sorc.
/nerf sorc
(obligatory nerf sorc NB comment)