Proc sets PvE

Chims

Are proc sets only viable in pvp? It would appear if you were doing any trials or harder content you are shunned for using proc sets. I don't personally use them but a lot of them are really interesting and I would like to but feel like i just can't while achieving dps requirements. Unfortunately using them feels like i would be massively nerfing myself in pve.

Casul

Issue is proc sets don't crit in pve. And with warhorn giving major force and rearming trap/accelerated giving you minor force the damage can be significantly different. The only proc sets that are used for Stam (in my experience) are velidreth/kragh/Selene/stormfist and relequen.

With that said some people have used elfbane and zaan and seen easy 25k parses no issue. But that kinda of dps won't cut it for harder content.

Baz

Stamina DPS are locked-in with Relequen for ST focused fights.

Ectheliontnacil

Well stamina uses Velidreth and magicka uses Zaan/Skoria. So basically every dps build is running procs already.

The absolute must have Relequen is a proc set too. Also there's some interesting magicka proc sets that you could frontbar, if you're not overly concerned about squeezing out every bit of dps out of your build.

WhyMustItBe

They can be viable for solo and normal dungeon content, and even non-DLC veteran dungeons. I would not bring them into trials though, where optimizing your build is key and every last thousand DPS is critical to success of the team.

That said if you are just looking to quest and run dungeons, there are some amazingly fun proc set builds that absolutely work. My stamsorc tank for example, is able to pull 15k-20k DPS while being fully resist capped (physical and magic) using all proc sets.

It lets me solo things like Craglorn group delves and anomalies, Morrowind and Summerset world bosses, and other higher end content in a reasonable amount of time (unlike most tanks that take forever).

Just depends on the build and your goals really. There are a ton of really fun options in ESO for people that do more in the game than stand next to trial bosses executing spreadsheets.

Not that there is anything wrong with spreadsheets.

kylewwefan

I think he’s mostly asking about like viper, widowmaker, Icy Conjurer, flameblossom kind of proc sets. The answer is still the same. Long cooldowns and can’t crit. Makes them less desirable in PVE.

WrathOfInnos

I never liked that crit change to proc sets. It was intended to reduce the proc damage meta in PVP, but the “solution” had a far larger impact in PVE. In PvP, most builds have lower crit chance and higher crit resistance, so sets critting had a minimal effect. In PvE, it’s common for 80-90% of damage to come from crits, and the proc crit nerf reduced their damage output by around 40%. After this sets like Viper immediately died in PVE, and others like Alkosh (which was previously a decent DPS set) got pushed into tanks.

It didn’t really even solve the proc problem in PVP, this was later fixed with the much more effective strategy of giving each set its own telegraph, delay, or counter.

I would love to see crits added back to proc sets, even if it meant a small (maybe 20%) reduction to their base damage. Then builds that build around crit and damage stats would see a net gain, particularly in PVE, while heavy armor PVP builds (typically with low crit) would not benefit at all. Some of these sets are really cool visually and thematically, but objectively and significantly worse than other options in the majority of game content. It would certainly mix up the meta if they suddenly became competitive.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

You can do 99% of the content in this game with nearly any gear, proc set or not. You may not be able to do it fast, but you can do it.

If anyone tells you that you MUST HAVE something and it’s not a group trying to take an assault at a world wide leader board, that’s just a code word for “I’m not actually good enough to do something so I have to pretend that no one can”.

Side note - I’m a hardcore PVPer who doesn’t wear impen and uses a PVE proc set.

Kolzki

There are a few proc sets that can do good damage in pve. Unfathomable darkness is one that can work very well as a front bar set for stamina characters and can get builds to 50k+ dps. It’s not the pve meta but it’s not a huge distance behind.

Other non-proc sets just hit slightly harder with buffs in an organised group. Score pushing groups will go with sets that push the very highest numbers.

Stx

If I'm not mistaken red mountain is still a good proc based dps set, at least on par with hundings and briarheart

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Stx wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken red mountain is still a good proc based dps set, at least on par with hundings and briarheart

You are mistaken.

D0PAMINE

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Well stamina uses Velidreth and magicka uses Zaan/Skoria. So basically every dps build is running procs already.

The absolute must have Requen is a proc set too. Also there's some interesting magicka proc sets that you could frontbar, if you're not overly concerned about squeezing out every bit of dps out of your build.

Agreed. If they don't have those sets yet Hundings/Juli suffice, esspecially if the player knows their build enough and has a potent rotation. It never hurts to keep those sets as a backup either for other fights imo. Sometimes trying to get everything to proc at once can waste more time than just having solid uptime on wep/spell dmg/crit.

Kel

https://youtu.be/T3IYeDoWXTk

All proc sets, (Valkyn Skoria, Unfathomable Darkness, and Red Mountain) 47k damage, and one of the most fun builds you'll ever play...

Chims

pretty much everyone uses monster helms so I wasn't referring to those specifically. From what I can gather the issue was the crits were too powerfull in PVP so they removed them. I just feel like there are so many sets in eso and as a DPS you are basically forced to use the same ones for any end game content. It really kills diversity farming BSW and the siroria set for all magicka dps chars.

Maybe they could make it so the sets do more dps to compensate or maybe allow crits in pve but not pvp from them?

Arunei

I don't get it. On the one hand you have people saying trials are fairly easy and can be done with a semi competent group, but now people are saying they're too hard to do with proc sets. I'll assume people are talking about vet trials being too hard, or else all the contradicting information is going to overload my brain.

That being said, even in most vet dungeons my MagDK can pull around 30k with Skoria, Silks of the Sun, and BSW. Seems fairly decent for proc sets that are easy enough to get.

Chims

Although bsw does proc I don't think most people consider it a proc set ( I don't). I am more referring to something like unfathomable darkness or caluurions set.

Most guilds have requirements for vet trials. For example for Magicka DPS:

25k for crag vet trials
35k DLC vet trials
45k vet DLC HM

Hitting the higher end just doesn't seem possible in a proc set.

Tannus15

sets which do immediate damage, like viper are bad in PvE compared to sets which boost your combat stats.

Basically PvE consists of laying down your ground AOE, then your single target dots, then your spammable. Anything which buffs your stats will increase the damage of all of these by a small amount, meaning a large overall dps increase. Sets like the viper will do a flat 2k dps and that's it.

Relequen is a special case because it does so much extra damage. The proc from relequen in a trial will do 8k+ dps alone.

Monster sets with proc damage are used because there is very little option. There are no monster sets which buff raw stats on the 2pc except Kenna, which kills your sustain in PvE.

In general, if you're struggling to hit 20k dps, then procs sets will increase your dps because they give a flat increase of damage usually based off just hitting something every 4 seconds or so. If you have more than 20k dps then you'll get more benefit from a resource / stat set because it'll increase your total dps by a %.

karekiz

Chims wrote: »

Hitting the higher end just doesn't seem possible in a proc set.

Dunno about 45K <Probably possible> but 35K is definitely doable.

Kolzki

karekiz wrote: »

Chims wrote: »

Hitting the higher end just doesn't seem possible in a proc set.

Dunno about 45K <Probably possible> but 35K is definitely doable.

Scroll up a few posts and you’ll find 47k. Xynode’s stamblade build was doing 52k in unfathomable darkness last patch.

Mr_Walker

Fun? You guys remember fun, don't you?

I love my Livewire/Thunderbug/Ilambris tank (with flame enchanted weps). Not built for serious trialling, or even vet dungeons, but I just love sparking up a dungeon.

SirAndy

Chims wrote: »

Are proc sets only viable in pvp? It would appear if you were doing any trials or harder content you are shunned for using proc sets. I don't personally use them but a lot of them are really interesting and I would like to but feel like i just can't while achieving dps requirements. Unfortunately using them feels like i would be massively nerfing myself in pve.

I run Infernal Guardian on my Pet Mag Sorc (mostly solo group content) and it's awesome!


PS: But, i also really don't care what other people think i should or should not do, so there's that ...

Ysbriel

Chims wrote: »

Are proc sets only viable in pvp? It would appear if you were doing any trials or harder content you are shunned for using proc sets. I don't personally use them but a lot of them are really interesting and I would like to but feel like i just can't while achieving dps requirements. Unfortunately using them feels like i would be massively nerfing myself in pve.

Unless running with Malestrom/Master weapons and two sets, one way or another most people use a proc set on PvE, Monster Sets are proc sets, Sets like briarheart, Tzogins are proc sets and people use them for PvE. If you are referring to sets like flame blossom, aurorans thunder and such, well there are possible builds that can be made with those sets to do enough damage to do vet content. I Tank with a proc set all vet content and i don’t tell people what i use i just get the job done, keep that in mind when you gear up, its all about getting the job well done

zvavi

Mechanical acuity, bsw, tzogvin, AY, olorime, zaan, veli, warden, symphony, stonekeeper, bloodspawn, new tank trial set (dont remember the name, teehee), mending, spell power cure, earthgore, bogdan, illambris, skoria, alakosh.

D0PAMINE

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Fun? You guys remember fun, don't you?

I love my Livewire/Thunderbug/Ilambris tank (with flame enchanted weps). Not built for serious trialling, or even vet dungeons, but I just love sparking up a dungeon.

I have a Nord Sorc Tank with Livewire, Thunderbug and Stormfist. Lightning everywhere and is Vet ready. Very fun to play.

Grianasteri

Chims wrote: »

Are proc sets only viable in pvp? It would appear if you were doing any trials or harder content you are shunned for using proc sets. I don't personally use them but a lot of them are really interesting and I would like to but feel like i just can't while achieving dps requirements. Unfortunately using them feels like i would be massively nerfing myself in pve.

If anyone is kicking for using a proc set, ignore them and move on. Proc sets are part of the game, fun and entirely viable and useful in both PVE and PVP.

Also, far from being a nerf, some proc sets can definitely increase DPS.

Arunei

That reminds me that my Magsorc uses Ilambris, War Maiden, and Mad Tinkerer, and she can hit some pretty decent numbers as well. Honestly I think it would depend on the set and what conditions proc it, and how often/easily those conditions can be met.

@Chims
How can BSW not be considered a proc set when it has a 5pc bonus that isn't active 100% of the time? Whether or not there's a specific percentage chance for it to proc (like BSW) or just a 'hey when x happens y happens' (like with Caluurion's), it's a proc set either way. There's a chance for either set's 5pc bonus to work, or be procced.

kylewwefan

BSW is different because it gives you spell power on proc. That boosts everything you do. Same with Briarhearts, Veiled heritage, AY, siroria. The procs that boost your stats that boost everything are somewhat different.

Because all those stats that it boosts can Crit, scale with your cp, warhorns, force and stuff. End up doing more overall damage.

Like Icy Conjurer procs and does 25k Damage over 8 seconds or so. None of that damage over time can Crit or Gets better with more stat. It’s just 25k damage over 8 seconds. Or around 3k DPS that can proc every 18 seconds. If you figure 25k damage over 18 seconds it gets even smaller. And then it can get mitigated too.

Straight damage stuff isn’t working well anymore is all.

Arunei

@kylewwefan
I'm not arguing that different proc sets might be more or less useful than others, I'm talking about the definition of proc set overall. If a set has a bonus that isn't 100% active all the time and only has a chance to activate any given time whatever trigger is used, that set is a proc set, regardless of how useful it is, whether it gives you flat stats, whether it does x damage over y seconds, or what the 5pc bonus is.

BSW might be considered much more useful than other proc sets but it's still a proc set because it requires something to proc its effect. That's why I was confused at someone saying it's not considered a proc set by a lot of people. Usefulness doesn't make it any less a proc set than something that's complete rubbish.

Stx

Okay bro, I dont think the actual definition of a proc matters. I could tell he was talking about damage procs and it has already been cleared up.

Arunei

Stx wrote: »

Okay bro, I dont think the actual definition of a proc matters. I could tell he was talking about damage procs and it has already been cleared up.

Someone saying people don't consider a proc set to be a proc set, regardless of whether its damage procs or stat procs, can be confusing to people who are newer to the game and are trying to get themselves into using better gear than whatever they've picked up along the way while questing or leveling or whatever. With that in mind I would say it actually does matter what the 'actual definition' is. Why make something harder than it needs to be? Proc sets are proc sets regardless of what effect it is being procced.

Not to mention the opening post doesn't differentiate between damage sets or stat sets or other special effects. It just said 'proc sets' and was only clarified later in the thread. Proc sets can most certainly be used in PvE, as evidenced by the fact that ones like BSW are so popular and highly sought after.

Thokri

It is a shame, I would love to use damage proc sets but damage is just so bad it is out of question outside normal dungeons since I don't want to be carried.

More so since everyone has or aims to have 50%+ crit chance.

I wish there were some option to have non-crit but more flat damage builds.
For example someway in champion points that reduced your crit dmg&chance but increased damage overall to compensate.
Likely would not be as high dps but a lot closer.

Like path of exile has.