REMOVE NECRO ARMOR BUFF PULL

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bigdavid11b16_ESO
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there is ZERO reason for this to be in the game. theres ball zergs rolling around and u attack anyone u get pulled into it on cooldown. and you also get auto staggered point blank. this should never be allowed and zenimax should be ashamed of even thinking about putting this into the game. theres zero counterplay. you get pulled through walls, trees, rocks, keep doors, keep walls. i havent found anything you couldnt get pulled thru. REMOVE IT END OF DISCUSSION

CHANGE MY MIND
  • Unstable.Pixel
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    Haven't played necro yet, but the ones I've fought it's like a free gap closer for me. Seems counter-productive to them if they're trying to escape.
    I swear to drunk i'm not god
  • Mesoz
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    Hmmm if they removed the auto stagger from it, i feel it would be ok. I think they should probably increase the cooldown on the pull though. On my stamcro i have done some really trolly things with that morph and the colossus ult lol.
  • Metafae
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    Once again, pvp player has a problem with a useful skill for PVE.

    You do realize that the Swarm Mother set does the exact same thing, and has been in the game for ages.
  • Iskiab
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    you get pulled through walls, trees, rocks, keep doors, keep walls. i havent found anything you couldnt get pulled thru.

    Umm, what are you talking about? How are you attacking people through walls, trees, rocks, keep doors and keep walls?
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
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  • darkblue5
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    Iskiab wrote: »

    Umm, what are you talking about? How are you attacking people through walls, trees, rocks, keep doors and keep walls?

    Projectile delay + LOS?
  • Nerftheforums
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    Metafae wrote: »
    Once again, pvp player has a problem with a useful skill for PVE.

    You do realize that the Swarm Mother set does the exact same thing, and has been in the game for ages.

    Comparing a monster set to a armor buff. New to the game, aren't you?

    Besides, small note: the pull could be coded to work in pve and simply stun in pvp. Or snare. Or fart. Whatever. But free chains on cd is quite a *** thought. Typical of zos...which kinda is a synonim tbh I'm afraid.
  • Jeremy
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    there is ZERO reason for this to be in the game. theres ball zergs rolling around and u attack anyone u get pulled into it on cooldown. and you also get auto staggered point blank. this should never be allowed and zenimax should be ashamed of even thinking about putting this into the game. theres zero counterplay. you get pulled through walls, trees, rocks, keep doors, keep walls. i havent found anything you couldnt get pulled thru. REMOVE IT END OF DISCUSSION

    CHANGE MY MIND

    Yeah... those "zerg balls' running around with necromancers are ridiculous. The last thing this game needed was something to make zerging even more effective.
    Edited by Jeremy on May 29, 2019 10:49AM
  • Maulkin
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    Don't see a problem really. It's not half as annoying as a troll MagDK pulling you into a zerg with Chains. Or a StamWarden pulling you with Silver Leash into a Sub Assault + DBoS combo.

    At least with Beckoning Armor you don't get pulled while trying to run away from the zergball, you have to be attacking the Necro to get pulled. And the Necro can't control when you get pulled to coordinate burst, unlike chains or silver leash.

    It's going to be a very unpopular morph for PvP, except with some trollers but even then the novelty will wear off quickly like with Swarm Mother. You give up a lot of sustain that is there with Summoner's Armor and you can't control when you hard CC your target which ends up giving free CC immunity most times.
    EU | PC | AD
  • technohic
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    Maulkin wrote: »
    Don't see a problem really. It's not half as annoying as a troll MagDK pulling you into a zerg with Chains. Or a StamWarden pulling you with Silver Leash into a Sub Assault + DBoS combo.

    At least with Beckoning Armor you don't get pulled while trying to run away from the zergball, you have to be attacking the Necro to get pulled. And the Necro can't control when you get pulled to coordinate burst, unlike chains or silver leash.

    It's going to be a very unpopular morph for PvP, except with some trollers but even then the novelty will wear off quickly like with Swarm Mother. You give up a lot of sustain that is there with Summoner's Armor and you can't control when you hard CC your target which ends up giving free CC immunity most times.

    Yep. At most its a learn to play issue to not range attack into herds of players when you cant control what you target. At worst; my first encounter in PvP on mine was against a pet sorc and I had no vigor, but then could not get away as it kept pulling a pet or him back to me.
  • Iki
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    The more I think about beckoning armor the more I believe that all abilities that pull opponents should be changed to do something else. None else should be able to change my characters position in any way. No pulls, no knockbacks.

    I should be able to choose where my character stands and where it moves, and everyone else do the same with their characters. Gap-closers are fine, ofc, as they just affect position of a player using them, but beckoning armor, unrelenting grip, silver leash and frozen device should be reworked to not pull others. Also, knockback component should be removed from several cc skills that now have that, like javelin flame reach and draining shot.

    Being able to pull other players allows or even promotes toxic pvp and makes it harder for already weaker side in fight, as they have less chance to escape or use mobility and positioning to reduce incoming pressure and choose more favorable location for them where to fight.

    Pulls can also make fights tactically less diverse if mobility and positioning matter less. It should matter when and where you move yourself in fight, clever positioning should help you and give you an advantage. That doesn`t happen if someone can nullify you positioning with pull-ability. If mobility matters less, then building yourself more tanky is the only way to increase survivability. Do we really want more tankyness and less mobility to pvp? I do not.

    Knockbacks should be removed not only because of trolling potential they got, but also because knockbacks tend to make stun slower and more unreliable to break-free. And killing someone with fall-dmg or slaughterfishes due knockback is also lame way to end encounter. I consider that toxic pvp.

    I know many pve players will strongly disagree with me and want to keep pulls in game, as they are so used to having tanks chain in everything and nicely stack mobs so you can just perform your rotation and watch how mobs get cleaved down nice and easy. But is that how it really is supposed to be?
    Could it actually be refreshing and pve encounters to become more diverse without pulling?
    Could it even increase game-performance if there was less action in small area and mobs and players would spread out all over battlefield instead? You would have to kill mobs where they spawn or where they move instead of just stacking and burning everything. This could make ranged dps more relevant and possibly increase build/tactic-diversity in raids.
  • brandonv516
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    Yep it definitely comes down to a mechanic that is very necessary in PvE and very toxic in PvP.

    As are a lot of things.
  • Moonsorrow
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    Maulkin wrote: »
    Don't see a problem really. It's not half as annoying as a troll MagDK pulling you into a zerg with Chains. Or a StamWarden pulling you with Silver Leash into a Sub Assault + DBoS combo.

    At least with Beckoning Armor you don't get pulled while trying to run away from the zergball, you have to be attacking the Necro to get pulled. And the Necro can't control when you get pulled to coordinate burst, unlike chains or silver leash.

    It's going to be a very unpopular morph for PvP, except with some trollers but even then the novelty will wear off quickly like with Swarm Mother. You give up a lot of sustain that is there with Summoner's Armor and you can't control when you hard CC your target which ends up giving free CC immunity most times.

    Agreed on all of this.

    But since its something new, and with DK wings not reflecting anymore, some ranged spammers now unhappy because they cannot just ranged pew pew on everyone they see without a possible instant karma.. >:)
  • katorga
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    It is a bad mechanic for PVE because you cannot control it, and/or have to taunt the target and wait for it to attack, and hope the buff is off cool down. It is garbage. I'm all for the skill being completely redone.

    PVP, it is not as bad as a chains or silver leash users pulling you into the zerg. I consider it a debuff for my character, not a buff, because it keeps pulling people to me when I am trying to get away.
  • NBrookus
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    Free pulls when you are also using Leash is fine in PVE, but in PVP it's annoying as a necro, because you can't control it and annoying as a necro opponent because you are getting pulled this way and that.

    I think once the novelty wears off if won't be an issue.
    Iskiab wrote: »

    Umm, what are you talking about? How are you attacking people through walls, trees, rocks, keep doors and keep walls?

    Previously applied dots will trigger the pull. Yes, you can get pulled through keep doors even, even if you are a melee character with zero ranged skills. If the necro moves farther away, all of the sudden it's ranged damage.
  • React
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    Silver leash, necro armor, and chains should all just be tweaked to not work on players. Being able to control your opponents location like that, especially while outnumbering them, is just a broken mechanic.

    Leave all pulls for pve obviously, take them out of pvp.

    Edit: swarm mother could be an exception to this as it is a set and has stricter proc conditions than the necro armor for example.
    Edited by React on May 29, 2019 3:35PM
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  • LordTareq
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    I'm of two minds on this. It's quite nasty, but its also quite easy to counter if you know a necro has this running; simply hold block while shooting at him will prevent the pull. Of course simply blocking is not always an option.
  • idk
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    I have not tested it but the Necro pull should only work when receiving single target attacks, not a AoE. That would solve the issue and if anyone gets pulled into a zerg with that design the question would be why are they using a single target attack against a Zerg.

    BTW, this is not the only means to have someone pulled in automatically if they attack you. There is a monster set that does similar.
    Edited by idk on May 29, 2019 4:40PM
  • Minno
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    you know what stops this? Immovable pots ;)
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Iskiab
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    Blah, terrible suggestions in this thread imo. How is pulling and knocking someone back toxic? What’s next; stuns, immobilizations and every form of cc?

    If you want to play a shooter go play a shooter. The difference between MMO pvp and other forms is cc, it’s not toxic, it’s the genre.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
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    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
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  • Kaysha
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Blah, terrible suggestions in this thread imo. How is pulling and knocking someone back toxic? What’s next; stuns, immobilizations and every form of cc?

    If you want to play a shooter go play a shooter. The difference between MMO pvp and other forms is cc, it’s not toxic, it’s the genre.

    And as always, all I can say to this is: You should be playing more Cyrodiil instead of BGs.
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Blah, terrible suggestions in this thread imo. How is pulling and knocking someone back toxic? What’s next; stuns, immobilizations and every form of cc?

    If you want to play a shooter go play a shooter. The difference between MMO pvp and other forms is cc, it’s not toxic, it’s the genre.

    Shooters have all of these too these days. Play Overwatch and you can get pulled, knocked back, stunned and dragged along for good measure.

    Calling CC in general “toxic” says more about the poster than CC.
    Edited by Maulkin on May 29, 2019 5:17PM
    EU | PC | AD
  • Minno
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    Kaysha wrote: »

    And as always, all I can say to this is: You should be playing more Cyrodiil instead of BGs.

    You should be slotting immovable pots ;)
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • DocFrost72
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    I don't get how a reactive armor pull you have to hit in order to activate is worse than leash or chains. I also don't get how pulls are "toxic" (unless you're using a buzzword to say you don't like it, then I'd understand).

    I don't get this thread.
  • Iskiab
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    Kaysha wrote: »

    And as always, all I can say to this is: You should be playing more Cyrodiil instead of BGs.

    I do, I’m probably in cyrodiil 12 hours a week, but as a healer so will have a different perspective.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
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    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
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  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    I feel there is a need for abilities that trump skill.

    I know many players advocate the removal of such abilities because they are so good there's no other way to force them from position.

    These players know, even in a typical out numbered situation, they won't die.

    All players need to be able to die.
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
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  • Minno
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    Here is another counter; Mist form lol.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • ccmedaddy
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    Kind of related q: does silver leash still have that awkward stun after pull on the new patch? This has been driving me insane lately.
  • Tonturri
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    I love the skill in PvE. It's been extremely helpful, not to mention a gear/bar space saver (so I don't have to run swarm mother or some other pull).

    However, it is definitely OP in PvP. An (admittedly damage-less) chains on a 3 sec CD that doesn't cost magicka? Oof. OOF I say. Still, I was hoping I could use it to justify slotting the fear totem, because let's face it the totem is utter garbage...but pulling someone into the CC would be cool. But, it's not even useful for that.

    I'd rather they change it, only in PvP, to apply an extremely short snare or something when struck.

    Or, if nothing else, make the chain-reach veeeery obvious and slow so that people have more time to block. IIRC the chain extends FROM your target, instead of TO the target FROM your character, which seems a bit backwards.
    Edited by Tonturri on May 29, 2019 5:49PM
  • Iskiab
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    Tonturri wrote: »
    I love the skill in PvE. It's been extremely helpful, not to mention a gear/bar space saver (so I don't have to run swarm mother or some other pull).

    However, it is definitely OP in PvP. An (admittedly damage-less) chains on a 3 sec CD that doesn't cost magicka? Oof. OOF I say. Still, I was hoping I could use it to justify slotting the fear totem, because let's face it the totem is utter garbage...but pulling someone into the CC would be cool. But, it's not even useful for that.

    I'd rather they change it, only in PvP, to apply an extremely short snare or something when struck.

    Or, if nothing else, make the chain-reach veeeery obvious and slow so that people have more time to block. IIRC the chain extends FROM your target, instead of TO the target FROM your character, which seems a bit backwards.

    I disagree and don’t think it’s OP. As is the ability is situational.

    Like in BGs I’ve seen people use it for a free movement buff when I’m chasing someone in say chaos ball or capture the relic, so there is a downside.

    I bet the people who don’t like it are people trying to kite. In that case, yea it’s good, but that’s the whole point of the ability.

    This thread screams ‘game has changed and I don’t like it because I’ll have to adapt’.
    Edited by Iskiab on May 29, 2019 6:14PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
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    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Davadin
    Davadin
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    Iki wrote: »
    The more I think about beckoning armor the more I believe that all abilities that pull opponents should be changed to do something else. None else should be able to change my characters position in any way. No pulls, no knockbacks.

    I should be able to choose where my character stands and where it moves, and everyone else do the same with their characters. Gap-closers are fine, ofc, as they just affect position of a player using them, but beckoning armor, unrelenting grip, silver leash and frozen device should be reworked to not pull others. Also, knockback component should be removed from several cc skills that now have that, like javelin flame reach and draining shot.

    Being able to pull other players allows or even promotes toxic pvp and makes it harder for already weaker side in fight, as they have less chance to escape or use mobility and positioning to reduce incoming pressure and choose more favorable location for them where to fight.

    Pulls can also make fights tactically less diverse if mobility and positioning matter less. It should matter when and where you move yourself in fight, clever positioning should help you and give you an advantage. That doesn`t happen if someone can nullify you positioning with pull-ability. If mobility matters less, then building yourself more tanky is the only way to increase survivability. Do we really want more tankyness and less mobility to pvp? I do not.

    Knockbacks should be removed not only because of trolling potential they got, but also because knockbacks tend to make stun slower and more unreliable to break-free. And killing someone with fall-dmg or slaughterfishes due knockback is also lame way to end encounter. I consider that toxic pvp.

    I know many pve players will strongly disagree with me and want to keep pulls in game, as they are so used to having tanks chain in everything and nicely stack mobs so you can just perform your rotation and watch how mobs get cleaved down nice and easy. But is that how it really is supposed to be?
    Could it actually be refreshing and pve encounters to become more diverse without pulling?
    Could it even increase game-performance if there was less action in small area and mobs and players would spread out all over battlefield instead? You would have to kill mobs where they spawn or where they move instead of just stacking and burning everything. This could make ranged dps more relevant and possibly increase build/tactic-diversity in raids.

    i wonder if care bears got an mmo. or that penguin one that was recently shut down.


    leave my god damn chain pull alone.

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