Why is mag warden said to worst dps class?

kathandira

Tasear wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

I'm currently building a Magden for fun. Not for Max DPS, but for the flavor of being a Frost Mage.

Icey Conjuror
Winterborne
Iceheart

If I can pull off 20k on the 3m, i'll be content with this character. It will at least be able to perform well enough in Normal Trials, and most Vet Dungeons.

😅 I remember when 20k was min for vet trials.

For real! If that was still the case, this character would be great! lol

Nothing really changed in fact with guild Finder should be able to find a trial guild like that.

Only the perception of the community has changed, lol.

I do have several guilds that range from casual to hardcore players. We complete content well enough = )

Yeah but that's because trial guilds where hard to find, so they made only rules. I figure in time we will have a varience and less 60k dps or go home.

I'm sure of it! I don't really feel the majority of the community is so restrictive. With the Guild Finder, I think people's eyes will be opened to realize that the hardcore aren't actually the majority, and that harder content is more accessible than they realized.

kylewwefan

kathandira wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

I'm currently building a Magden for fun. Not for Max DPS, but for the flavor of being a Frost Mage.

Icey Conjuror
Winterborne
Iceheart

If I can pull off 20k on the 3m, i'll be content with this character. It will at least be able to perform well enough in Normal Trials, and most Vet Dungeons.

I’m pretty bad at DPS. I get about 27k with that exact setup. 1 jewelry infused, 1 Bloodthirsty, 1 Arcane. All spell damage enchant. Blue food. Breton. No worries about sustain. Ice staffs. Frost enchant. Absorb magic enchant. No bear.

Neat! That confirms it has the potential.

Would you mind reviewing this build and let me know if you feel there is anything that should be swapped out?

http://eso-skills.com/skill?z=gALi6a9@DB1ZOEE%BMgCHH@DDxltq&p=01720182019201979062916291729182919292629272928292921013102210321042105212131222123221322142215121622171218132523262315130513162317231823192521352235233&a=640000&c=Fizzlepop-531&b=Magicka_Frost_Warden&j=t&q=502&w=11&m=2

Uhm, is this a battlegrounds setup or something? It looks a bit odd to me that’s all.

Front: dive, shalks, Netch, prey, inner light, ULT Northern Storm
Back: Wall, Winter Revenge, Fetcher, frost Cloak or Vines, Lotus or inner light ULT Barrier.

I don’t use/need a Damage shield. Iceheart and Barrier is plenty enough.

Some people prefer fetcher on the front and Netch on the back for better damage. I like it this way. I’m used to it.

Using lotus, and vines practically makes you a healer. Take off fetcher and put up blood alter and you’re a ratified healer.

Edit to add, I use the apprentice mundus stone for more spell damage because Using 3 proc sets, that can’t crit. Maybe lover would be good too?

kathandira

kylewwefan wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

I'm currently building a Magden for fun. Not for Max DPS, but for the flavor of being a Frost Mage.

Icey Conjuror
Winterborne
Iceheart

If I can pull off 20k on the 3m, i'll be content with this character. It will at least be able to perform well enough in Normal Trials, and most Vet Dungeons.

I’m pretty bad at DPS. I get about 27k with that exact setup. 1 jewelry infused, 1 Bloodthirsty, 1 Arcane. All spell damage enchant. Blue food. Breton. No worries about sustain. Ice staffs. Frost enchant. Absorb magic enchant. No bear.

Neat! That confirms it has the potential.

Would you mind reviewing this build and let me know if you feel there is anything that should be swapped out?

http://eso-skills.com/skill?z=gALi6a9@DB1ZOEE%BMgCHH@DDxltq&p=01720182019201979062916291729182919292629272928292921013102210321042105212131222123221322142215121622171218132523262315130513162317231823192521352235233&a=640000&c=Fizzlepop-531&b=Magicka_Frost_Warden&j=t&q=502&w=11&m=2

Uhm, is this a battlegrounds setup or something? It looks a bit odd to me that’s all.

Front: dive, shalks, Netch, prey, inner light, ULT Northern Storm
Back: Wall, Winter Revenge, Fetcher, frost Cloak or Vines, Lotus or inner light ULT Barrier.

I don’t use/need a Damage shield. Iceheart and Barrier is plenty enough.

Some people prefer fetcher on the front and Netch on the back for better damage. I like it this way. I’m used to it.

Using lotus, and vines practically makes you a healer. Take off fetcher and put up blood alter and you’re a ratified healer.

The reason for some of the odd things is to maintain the Frost theme. dive, shalks, Fetcher don't cause frost damage, and don't really have the look of a frost spell.

What you listed will certain do more damage, but it would lose it's identity as a fun frost build. It might be weak, but if I can get a minimum of 20k out of it, I think it could be a neat build. What i'd really like to change is Force Pulse to something else that is centered around frost damage = /

Onefrkncrzypope

At the high end liko squeezed out 86k and he usually can be the top parse for a bit on YouTube. If he struggles with the magden then the lower end people would be far worse off. That is the true worth of his videos. It's a high end player experienced enough with all classes to showcase the spread of damage. The magden in 9% behind the double pets Sorc and 5% behind anything else.

I can tell you that it is hard to even get that close with a magden. I am at 50k on console with one.

Dagoth_Rac

kathandira wrote: »

What i'd really like to change is Force Pulse to something else that is centered around frost damage = /

Could you use Master's Ice Staff and Frost Reach skill instead of Force Pulse? The cost reduction and damage increase from Master staff might make Frost Reach competitive with Force Pulse, especially since you do not seem concerned with min/max. You would have to clear VDSA a few times to get an Ice Staff. I am not sure how difficult VDSA would be for you, though.

kathandira

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

What i'd really like to change is Force Pulse to something else that is centered around frost damage = /

Could you use Master's Ice Staff and Frost Reach skill instead of Force Pulse? The cost reduction and damage increase from Master staff might make Frost Reach competitive with Force Pulse, especially since you do not seem concerned with min/max. You would have to clear VDSA a few times to get an Ice Staff. I am not sure how difficult VDSA would be for you, though.

I like that idea = ) Though in my build, I already have Destructive Clench, which I can change to Reach. But I still need to swap out Force Pulse with something else.

If I were to use the Masters Staff, I would need to keep a 5pc Staff. I was considering Black Rose staff for Impulse to replace Force Pulse.

It's rough to find just 1 more Frost spell that deals damage, lol.

Kingslayer513

Tasear wrote: »

rabidrufus64 wrote: »

cuz its the worst dps class

I asked the question because all the dps classes had comparable numbers when Zos took them to test dummy.

So I was wondering if maybe minor toughness and frost frotress aren't accessible for dps and they some group utilitiy option.

Utility is always nice, but the root of the issue really is simply low dps. The dps ceiling for mag warden is objectively lower than every other class by a noticeable amount. On top of that, their rotation is one of the most difficult out of all classes. So mag wardens have to work harder for less, and nobody wants that.

Nearly all endgame players have many characters, so what incentive is there to pick the worst performer to play?

Kingslayer513

Tasear wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

I'm currently building a Magden for fun. Not for Max DPS, but for the flavor of being a Frost Mage.

Icey Conjuror
Winterborne
Iceheart

If I can pull off 20k on the 3m, i'll be content with this character. It will at least be able to perform well enough in Normal Trials, and most Vet Dungeons.

😅 I remember when 20k was min for vet trials.

For real! If that was still the case, this character would be great! lol

Nothing really changed in fact with guild Finder should be able to find a trial guild like that.

Only the perception of the community has changed, lol.

I do have several guilds that range from casual to hardcore players. We complete content well enough = )

Yeah but that's because trial guilds where hard to find, so they made only rules. I figure in time we will have a varience and less 60k dps or go home.

The variance has been here for a long time now. Where are people even getting the idea that trial guilds are restrictive? The guilds advertising in zone chat are entry level endgame with very low requirements, despite successfully completing all content these days.

The handful of restrictive elite guilds don't even advertise or open recruit like that so idk how newer folks would even be exposed to them.

Iskiab

Well, these days you could make an argument that wardens aren’t the least effective mag dps anymore and are more effective then Magblades.

MagWarden Pros:
- Not reliant on Combat Prayer
- Better AoE
- Pure ranged

Magblade Pros:
- Damage is weighted on impale so lower dps in the easy parts and highest dps during execute phases when there’s more mechanics

For total dps there’s only a 1K difference. The upside of a warden would outweigh the 1K dps differential if you’re using magicka.

Templar has been higher dps then Magblade for a while but I didn’t see a lot of guilds switching, so who knows what most guild’s strategies will be.

Onefrkncrzypope

Iskiab wrote: »

Well, these days you could make an argument that wardens aren’t the least effective mag dps anymore and are more effective then Magblades.

MagWarden Pros:
- Not reliant on Combat Prayer
- Better AoE
- Pure ranged

Magblade Pros:
- Damage is weighted on impale so lower dps in the easy parts and highest dps during execute phases when there’s more mechanics

For total dps there’s only a 1K difference. The upside of a warden would outweigh the 1K dps differential if you’re using magicka.

Templar has been higher dps then Magblade for a while but I didn’t see a lot of guilds switching, so who knows what most guild’s strategies will be.

Just a observation about the pure range setup. I have a problem with that because shalks is mid range so idk about pure it's got it's limits but isn't out of the norm.

kojou

There is no one thing they are really good at IMO... They are not the best single target, not the best AoE, not the best support, not the tankiest, no CC, not the best healing, etc.

My other hang-ups for Wardens are as follows:

Scorch and its morphs:

The animation of bugs popping out of the ground then disappearing was always a bit boring IMO for what is one of the Warden's key skills. There are so many ways that could have been made a more interesting skill. Should also do more damage to closest enemy

Dive and its morphs:

The magicka variation should have been an Ice Wraith and should do frost damage.

Artic Blast:

RIP. This could have been such a good skill if they would have made it scale off Magicka.

Piercing Cold:

Passive is such a waste. Only one skill in the Warden kit does cold damage, and Ice staff is not a DPS weapon. If more of the Wardens magicka skills did frost damage (or if Northern Storm was a better DPS Ultimate) this passive would make more sense.

I don't mind running my Magicka Warden in PvP, but that is mostly because of Permafrost. If I didn't have that I would just shelve the Magicka Warden altogether.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Tasear wrote: »

What is the real problem?

The real problem is that Liko pulls more DPS on every other class/spec. Haha

KillsAllElves

Warden was advertised as a ice mage. It is not and the bear is a joke! Come to think of it the beqr has to be the dumbest thing in eso next to one shot mechanics.

Swap the bear for an ice atronach that deals aoe damage,

Swap the birds for an ice comet or ice ball what ever you want to call it.

I feel like im casting more buffs on my magic warden than my dps skills.

It feels weak and lacking.

magic warden has potential, i think it needs reworking. Buff ice damage give us a legitimate ice mage, cryomancer!

And i never seen a bear in Vvardenfell.

ESO_Nightingale

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Warden was advertised as a ice mage. It is not and the bear is a joke! Come to think of it the beqr has to be the dumbest thing in eso next to one shot mechanics.

Swap the bear for an ice atronach that deals aoe damage,

Swap the birds for an ice comet or ice ball what ever you want to call it.

I feel like im casting more buffs on my magic warden than my dps skills.

It feels weak and lacking.

magic warden has potential, i think it needs reworking. Buff ice damage give us a legitimate ice mage, cryomancer!

And i never seen a bear in Vvardenfell.

We have been arguing that a viable frost dps mage is not only something so deeply wanted, but something that magden needs so that it gets more dps skills and utility and to really give it identity. There is no other spot on the class more perfect than the several morphs on winter's embrace that severely underperform and are underpowered.

The consensus ive gotten from my survey is that the Frost staff should have never been turned into a "tanking weapon" as the results showed around 2/3 wanted the frost staff to go back towards a damage direction. It was always a dps weapon and conflicts with lore. It's passive skills no longer reflect it's DPS nature. Making it subpar at both tanking and dps. One of the most suggested things I've ever seen is that people want a viable magicka tanking weapon that was fully built for the role. This can be passed off to an Alteration Staff where the Frost Staff can be turned towards the critical avenue.

WrathOfInnos

I don’t think it’s worst anymore, Magicka Necro takes that title. Still, I think Mag Warden would be in a better place if it gave group utility.

Warden can bring 4 unique things to a group:
- Minor toughness
- Minor Endurance + Intellect
- Major Ward + Resolve
- A additional synergy

None of these are tied to DPS skills, and the first 2 are require multiple casts to hit the whole group. All of them are better utilized by a tank or healer.

They can also bring Major Protection, but it is tied to a short duration skill with mediocre damage, and Nightblade’s Veil is a much more effective source.

The only remaining group utility on mag Warden is Major Slayer with Master Architect. Again, Nightblades have access to the same buff, and are more effective with it. It also requires slotting a 5pc gear set that is detrimental to individual DPS (and giving up excellent sets like False Gods or Siroria), lacking both stat density (no Perfected version with extra bonus) and stat relevance (Spell Crit is the most beneficial bonus in the Shadow Stone meta, and MA had none). Furthermore, the growing prominence of Lokkestiiz means that Major Slayer is not even needed.

ESO_Nightingale

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I don’t think it’s worst anymore, Magicka Necro takes that title. Still, I think Mag Warden would be in a better place if it gave group utility.

Warden can bring 4 unique things to a group:
- Minor toughness
- Minor Endurance + Intellect
- Major Ward + Resolve
- A additional synergy

None of these are tied to DPS skills, and the first 2 are require multiple casts to hit the whole group. All of them are better utilized by a tank or healer.

They can also bring Major Protection, but it is tied to a short duration skill with mediocre damage, and Nightblade’s Veil is a much more effective source.

The only remaining group utility on mag Warden is Major Slayer with Master Architect. Again, Nightblades have access to the same buff, and are more effective with it. It also requires slotting a 5pc gear set that is detrimental to individual DPS (and giving up excellent sets like False Gods or Siroria), lacking both stat density (no Perfected version with extra bonus) and stat relevance (Spell Crit is the most beneficial bonus in the Shadow Stone meta, and MA had none). Furthermore, the growing prominence of Lokkestiiz means that Major Slayer is not even needed.

We've been asking for a while. I hope necromag isn't bad but we don't know how it will look in the next few updates. It may get the warden treatment though.

LeHarrt91

The main issue with MagDen is PVE dps. Most of their damage is just Magic and their elemental damage is tank related which doesnt help a dps, also a few of their skills are lacklustre (Swarm). As a DPS you lack group utility outside of AOE breach and as others have said ultimate choice is Bear or nothing.
Adjust how the bonus damage swarm gets is calculated and possibly add a synergy, this should not effect pvp much if at all.

Screaming Cliff Racer's morph is more damage, Deep Fissure's morph is Major Breach, Swarm's better morph is more damage, Bear morph is Auto respawn (not useful) Winters revenge is just Frost Damage. Those are the 5 class skills we get to choose from and non of them do any great effect, its mainly just raw damage.