Why is mag warden said to worst dps class?

Tasear

What is the real problem?

WoppaBoem

I don't know nor care it does so much damage in PVP it is great. Some class setups are better in PVE and some are better in PVP. That the game can't have it all. I am oke to have them buffed but that would be crazy for the amount of damage I am already putting out in Cyrodill.

Runefang

Not to be obvious, but the problem is that the dps is lower than other classes. At least for magicka.

The reason for this isn't sustain or being forced into melee range, it's just lackluster skills. It's made worse because a lot of the skills are just boring with no side effects or extra bonuses.

Iskiab

It’s not ‘horrible’ it’s just a little lower then other classes. Magwardens parse 87k vs 93k for magsorcs so it’s close, but with how hardcore trial guilds work they all switch to the most optimal dps class.

For your average player it’s close enough it should make 0 difference.

ESO_Nightingale

little group utility that other wardens don't provide and some of the least dps in the game.

WoppaBoem

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

little group utility that other wardens don't provide and some of the least dps in the game.

But the one of the top performers in PVP again, major armor resists, minor touchness and major protection with perma frost, I play 1 myself and I would against buffing them for PVE. However it is always fun to be buffed but it would feel wrong.

wishlist14

I have been playing my magwarden right through ...meaning I play her regardless of what anyone say about them. Never had any problems with mine.

I'd love it if people could add more detail when they do make comments about certain classes being useless etc.
Could you please state if you are a pvper or pver and what level content do you play. I say this because I feel it's usually the hardcore min/maxers or hardcore pro pvpers that notice these things moreso.

cpuScientist

Tasear wrote: »

What is the real problem?

1. Lower single Target DPS.
2. Bear is single Target only and double barred FORCING wardens to use a single target only which limits usefulness in general PvE, there are times like in DSA or in Black Rose and some trials where a destro or some kind of AOE Ultimate is just better.
3. Damage skills are boring, uninspired and don't help the issue, ice is bad. The Fletcher needs an execute mechanic, no ice skills to play around with for damage except for the AOE dot, which has a weird timer and low damage.
4. Skills are on different timers, which is fine if they pull good DPS.
5. Complicated rotation for no reward.
6. No execute or execute mechanic outside of bear.

Suggestions!
1. Buff Fletcher damage and give it an execute similar to injection. Just straight buff make it cornerstone.
2. Add something more to ice AOE, reduce time and increase damage something.
3. Give another ice skill
4. Most importantly IMHO either let us single bar bear OR give bear an AOE component at higher costs. Perhaps it gives a group buff perhaps not, like 5 second major Slayer...

The rotation of the class is one of the hardest but funnest the damage of the class KILLS it

kylewwefan

Nightblades are said to have the highest DPS capability; But if not played well, they lose out big time.( and they are tricky)

Magic warden and Sorc even are very easy to get good damage; and keep getting good damage through mechanics.

Top classes are greatly benefited by execute damage and Crit. Wardens don’t have as much access to this. Sorc execute is somewhat more limited.

cpuScientist

Iskiab wrote: »

It’s not ‘horrible’ it’s just a little lower then other classes. Magwardens parse 87k vs 93k for magsorcs so it’s close, but with how hardcore trial guilds work they all switch to the most optimal dps class.

For your average player it’s close enough it should make 0 difference.

6k is huge though... Further they HAVE to use a single target Ultimate, drop bear and that goes into the 70s. So why take a class that HAS to use a single target Ultimate that can die AND still has lower dps than everything while providing no buffs. There is absolutely positively no reason to being one, except that it's your favorite class. WHICH I UNDERSTAND, I love the class and magDen is funner for me than StamDen for both PvE and PvP, but I personally feel the game is an MMO and I should not bring something that hinders the team for my personal enjoyment. So if it's anything serious I just don't bring it.

zvavi

6k is huge, when u r comparing 87k to 93k, but u know, when u r comparing 43.5k to 46.5k it is already better. It is already 3 k difference...

ESO_Nightingale

WoppaBoem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

little group utility that other wardens don't provide and some of the least dps in the game.

But the one of the top performers in PVP again, major armor resists, minor touchness and major protection with perma frost, I play 1 myself and I would against buffing them for PVE. However it is always fun to be buffed but it would feel wrong.

Top performer in group pvp but meh at everything else especially PvE. Imo it needs its massive issues fixed. Lots of reworks.

Onefrkncrzypope

As you can see most people agree that it is strong in PvP. So buffs from a PvE DPS standpoint must keep to the skills used only in PvE. The bear is the easiest way to buff it's DPS. It's reliant on the bear, it sucks but at least could be hitting harder to compensate. Ice damage is general is a bad idea. Farther back bird is a bad idea, even without Zaan's. It's up to the bear, so it doesn't break PvP and also sorry guys cyromancer in this game will never get a buff.

Grandma

I think the biggest problem with ESO end game meta is what people hear by word of mouth. ANY spec of ANy class of ANY race can complete all the content in the game. Sure, some have to try harder/ learn their class better, but that makes it more rewarding imo. people make it out like the scale of dps from 1 being the worst to 10 being the best is 10 being stamcro and 1 being magden. the reality is that they're all around 10 or 9, and magden is like maybe a 8. They all get the job done. Hell, I know plenty of stamdks and healdks who have run speedrun no death content like it's going out of style. The problem with magden is the stigma, and the fact that it takes a little more effort to hit the same numbers as other classes. In reality, people like to forget that after you hit 45k on a 6 mill you can literally complete all content in the game, including the hardest achievements (pve anyway)

Iskiab

wishlist14 wrote: »

I have been playing my magwarden right through ...meaning I play her regardless of what anyone say about them. Never had any problems with mine.

I'd love it if people could add more detail when they do make comments about certain classes being useless etc.
Could you please state if you are a pvper or pver and what level content do you play. I say this because I feel it's usually the hardcore min/maxers or hardcore pro pvpers that notice these things moreso.

The issue is in PvE, but not in the hardcore community from what I can tell, it’s the average person with little understanding of game mechanics.

When I was first doing trials I’d see it a lot. Poor players creating an informal hierarchy based on class perception.

Having no combat log meant that if people failed due to low dps they would blame what’s visible... oh it must be because we had a Warden dps.

Interestingly ESOlogs should change that. I’ve been hearing stories of low dps performance from some really brash arrogant dps types now that performance can be quantified. I’ve noticed a lot of times with no information it’s always the A-hole who blames others, and with no information to contradict them they’ve been able to get away with it. These types litter your average raiding guild in MMOs.

rabidmyers

cuz its the worst dps class

Tasear

rabidrufus64 wrote: »

cuz its the worst dps class

I asked the question because all the dps classes had comparable numbers when Zos took them to test dummy.

So I was wondering if maybe minor toughness and frost frotress aren't accessible for dps and they some group utilitiy option.

ccfeeling

How much Liko hit ?

How much you hit ?

Runefang

Grandma wrote: »

I think the biggest problem with ESO end game meta is what people hear by word of mouth. ANY spec of ANy class of ANY race can complete all the content in the game. Sure, some have to try harder/ learn their class better, but that makes it more rewarding imo. people make it out like the scale of dps from 1 being the worst to 10 being the best is 10 being stamcro and 1 being magden. the reality is that they're all around 10 or 9, and magden is like maybe a 8. They all get the job done. Hell, I know plenty of stamdks and healdks who have run speedrun no death content like it's going out of style. The problem with magden is the stigma, and the fact that it takes a little more effort to hit the same numbers as other classes. In reality, people like to forget that after you hit 45k on a 6 mill you can literally complete all content in the game, including the hardest achievements (pve anyway)

Just to be clear the best Magden dps on Yolnahkriin is 53k. And it’s basically a straight parse boss. The best Magplar and overall mag dps is 71k.

The best dps is a Stamblade on 84k. While Magden dps levels are hurt by top players not playing them even then they’ll still fall quite short with the best players.

Sure if everybody ran a Magden you could still clear. But the longer you take the more pressure on your team, especially the support.

So wether you’re progressing or score pushing its better for your team to run any other class.

This is said by somebody who loves his Magden btw.

Joy_Division

WoppaBoem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

little group utility that other wardens don't provide and some of the least dps in the game.

But the one of the top performers in PVP again, major armor resists, minor touchness and major protection with perma frost, I play 1 myself and I would against buffing them for PVE. However it is always fun to be buffed but it would feel wrong.

By top performer in PvP do you mean someone who must be in a group, does meh damage, and crutches on a broken ultimate? Because the last time I ran into a solo open world magwarden was sometime in 2018.

kathandira

I'm currently building a Magden for fun. Not for Max DPS, but for the flavor of being a Frost Mage.

Icey Conjuror
Winterborne
Iceheart

If I can pull off 20k on the 3m, i'll be content with this character. It will at least be able to perform well enough in Normal Trials, and most Vet Dungeons.

Tasear

kathandira wrote: »

I'm currently building a Magden for fun. Not for Max DPS, but for the flavor of being a Frost Mage.

Icey Conjuror
Winterborne
Iceheart

If I can pull off 20k on the 3m, i'll be content with this character. It will at least be able to perform well enough in Normal Trials, and most Vet Dungeons.

😅 I remember when 20k was min for vet trials.

kathandira

Tasear wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

I'm currently building a Magden for fun. Not for Max DPS, but for the flavor of being a Frost Mage.

Icey Conjuror
Winterborne
Iceheart

If I can pull off 20k on the 3m, i'll be content with this character. It will at least be able to perform well enough in Normal Trials, and most Vet Dungeons.

😅 I remember when 20k was min for vet trials.

For real! If that was still the case, this character would be great! lol

Pronto

I find it interesting seeing how often players talk about the best and worst classes for DPS. In reality, this only really matters to the really experienced, high-end players who are competitive in end-game PvE, which is >1% of the ESO population. It's really cool to strive to be the best you can, absolutely, but neglecting a class that you want to play because it isn't min/max is silly in my opinion.

The majority of the population, if they are relatively experienced with their class and has decent gear, will hit between 40k-45k, and hit upwards of 50k unbuffed on 6mil dummies (or 70-80k on the new buffed atronach) on any class. This max DPS everyone discusses is based on the people who are really really good at the game as said before.

All of these classes can at least hit 40k unbuffed, which is enough to clear any vet content in the game. When people say a Magden is only hitting 86k dps I find it so funny. Realistically you're probably not going to get anywhere near those numbers on any class anyways unless you really work at it for awhile, so why bother with the numbers now when they can change, and just focus on being the best on a class you love to play?

kylewwefan

kathandira wrote: »

I'm currently building a Magden for fun. Not for Max DPS, but for the flavor of being a Frost Mage.

Icey Conjuror
Winterborne
Iceheart

If I can pull off 20k on the 3m, i'll be content with this character. It will at least be able to perform well enough in Normal Trials, and most Vet Dungeons.

I’m pretty bad at DPS. I get about 27k with that exact setup. 1 jewelry infused, 1 Bloodthirsty, 1 Arcane. All spell damage enchant. Blue food. Breton. No worries about sustain. Ice staffs. Frost enchant. Absorb magic enchant. No bear.

kathandira

kylewwefan wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

I'm currently building a Magden for fun. Not for Max DPS, but for the flavor of being a Frost Mage.

Icey Conjuror
Winterborne
Iceheart

If I can pull off 20k on the 3m, i'll be content with this character. It will at least be able to perform well enough in Normal Trials, and most Vet Dungeons.

I’m pretty bad at DPS. I get about 27k with that exact setup. 1 jewelry infused, 1 Bloodthirsty, 1 Arcane. All spell damage enchant. Blue food. Breton. No worries about sustain. Ice staffs. Frost enchant. Absorb magic enchant. No bear.

Neat! That confirms it has the potential.

Would you mind reviewing this build and let me know if you feel there is anything that should be swapped out?

http://eso-skills.com/skill?z=gALi6a9@DB1ZOEE%BMgCHH@DDxltq&p=01720182019201979062916291729182919292629272928292921013102210321042105212131222123221322142215121622171218132523262315130513162317231823192521352235233&a=640000&c=Fizzlepop-531&b=Magicka_Frost_Warden&j=t&q=502&w=11&m=2

Luckylancer

A buff to pve magden without touching pvp? Make bear atacks aoe + give damage bonus or execute to 1 skill that only apply at dungeon+delves+trials.

Example: swarm deals %100 more damage based on health againts enemies in dungeons, trials and delves.

Thats it, fixed. Nothing crazy, a basic buff.

WoppaBoem

Luckylancer wrote: »

A buff to pve magden without touching pvp? Make bear atacks aoe + give damage bonus or execute to 1 skill that only apply at dungeon+delves+trials.

Example: swarm deals %100 more damage based on health againts enemies in dungeons, trials and delves.

Thats it, fixed. Nothing crazy, a basic buff.

Nothing basic about it as this mechanic on skill level is not in the game lol. But buffing the bear would be possible as this is not used in PVP. But make it strong enough and it will

Tasear

kathandira wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

I'm currently building a Magden for fun. Not for Max DPS, but for the flavor of being a Frost Mage.

Icey Conjuror
Winterborne
Iceheart

If I can pull off 20k on the 3m, i'll be content with this character. It will at least be able to perform well enough in Normal Trials, and most Vet Dungeons.

😅 I remember when 20k was min for vet trials.

For real! If that was still the case, this character would be great! lol

Nothing really changed in fact with guild Finder should be able to find a trial guild like that.

kathandira

Tasear wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

I'm currently building a Magden for fun. Not for Max DPS, but for the flavor of being a Frost Mage.

Icey Conjuror
Winterborne
Iceheart

If I can pull off 20k on the 3m, i'll be content with this character. It will at least be able to perform well enough in Normal Trials, and most Vet Dungeons.

😅 I remember when 20k was min for vet trials.

For real! If that was still the case, this character would be great! lol

Nothing really changed in fact with guild Finder should be able to find a trial guild like that.

Only the perception of the community has changed, lol.

I do have several guilds that range from casual to hardcore players. We complete content well enough = )

Tasear

kathandira wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

I'm currently building a Magden for fun. Not for Max DPS, but for the flavor of being a Frost Mage.

Icey Conjuror
Winterborne
Iceheart

If I can pull off 20k on the 3m, i'll be content with this character. It will at least be able to perform well enough in Normal Trials, and most Vet Dungeons.

😅 I remember when 20k was min for vet trials.

For real! If that was still the case, this character would be great! lol

Nothing really changed in fact with guild Finder should be able to find a trial guild like that.

Only the perception of the community has changed, lol.

I do have several guilds that range from casual to hardcore players. We complete content well enough = )

Yeah but that's because trial guilds where hard to find, so they made only rules. I figure in time we will have a varience and less 60k dps or go home.