War Maiden VS Spell Strategist VS Julianos

POMEH

In this video I compare three DD sets for magic warden DD: War maiden, Spell Strategist, Julianos.
Main set is Mother sorrow - it gives many spell critical.

1) Why war maiden?
This set has good bonuses and you can buy it in guild stores (its very cheap). Fifth bonus are good for me like magic warden because most warden damage skills has magic damage.

2) Why spell strategist?
Its very popular magic DD set and in all guiedes I watched people advice it. You can buy it in guild stores (its not cheap). This set has one big downside, you will loose a lot of damage on AoE because fifth bonus damage only one target.

3) Why Julianos?
Its very popular DD set too cause gives many spell damage. You can buy it in guild stores (its not cheap), but huge plus is that you can craft it by yourself with right traits and dont waste crystals to transmute items to right traits.

4) Why not Siroria?
Its the most popular DD set in all Tamriel from Claurest. Fifth bonus works while you standing one one place but in solo playing you must move to stay alive. Thats why its not my choise. Set is very good for playing in group but in solo its not the best choise. You cannot buy it and you must run again and again in Claudrest to collect it with divine traits.

5) Why not Burning Spellweave?
I am too lazy to run in city of Ash again and again to collect it. And I think DPS will be the same (or more for 1-2k) like in my three sets in video.

Result: all three sets has the same DPS for me - about 27k. If I transmute traits from arcane to infusion in my war maiden jewelery so it will be better than Julianos set. DPS will be more.
I play solo with War maiden set for a year and even after this test will continue use it on my magic warden DD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHmsMVOwewg

rumple9

Nice video - yes I've tested these 3 sets too and found War Maiden to be best for Warden

Nolic1

War Maiden is also good on Nightblades for there high spell damage skills. But good video I would of put a disclaimer in it stating this is your opinion and you feel its a better set even though thats what you say many will say other wise or have to me in the past. Also great video explaining the sets and your view.

Zer0_CooL

Why not spinner?

WrathOfInnos

I disagree on War Maiden being best. The 400 Spell Damage only applies to abilities with the “Magic” damage type. This means it does nothing for Winter’s Revenge, Wall of Elements, Light/Heavy Attacks, and Burning. Those exceptions should be about half of your total damage output, making War Maiden effectively about 200 Spell Damage. Julianos wins with 300 Spell Damage for all abilities (and slightly better 4 pc bonus of Spell Crit).

As for Spell Strat, I agree that it is not usually the best choice. The main scenario where Spell Strat excels is as a single bar set (typically front bar active, and lost while on back bar with a Maelstrom Staff). The 500 Spell Damage carries over to the back bar for up to 5s, while the Spell Damage from Juliano or War Maiden is instantly lost when you lose the 5pc. This is the same reason why many people like Burning Spellweave. If you have the 5pc set on both bars then Julianos is competitive with SS and BSW.

POMEH

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I disagree on War Maiden being best. The 400 Spell Damage only applies to abilities with the “Magic” damage type. This means it does nothing for Winter’s Revenge, Wall of Elements, Light/Heavy Attacks, and Burning. Those exceptions should be about half of your total damage output, making War Maiden effectively about 200 Spell Damage. Julianos wins with 300 Spell Damage for all abilities (and slightly better 4 pc bonus of Spell Crit).

I thought the same way until did my test. I spent about 250k gold for craft Julianos jewelry with infused trait + inferno staff to campare it with War Maiden. So I did this test, which showed that Julianos has the same DPS in my case (27k). And I know why. Like warden I use most of all skills with highest damage: Deep fisure, Screaming Cliff Racer, Fetchers Infection - all these skills do magic damage (War maiden works).

Yes, with these skills Winter’s Revenge, Wall of Elements, Light/Heavy Attacks fifth War maiden bonus dont work. Thats why is DPS balans between Julianos and War Maiden. Its equally sets for warden.

But I am sure when I will change traits on my jewelry War Maiden to infused DPS of War maiden will be more than Julianos.

POMEH

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Why not spinner?

I think that fifth bonus of Spinner (3450 spell penetration) will do less damage than fifth bonuses on War Maiden, Julianos and Spell Strategist. Need to do test.

wishlist14

@POMEH I love this post. It's great to see someone testing these sets and sharing results and opinions. This is what we need to breach the gap between the trials sets and the crafted/ overland sets. This thread helps players gain a good understanding on beginner sets imo. I love that it doesn't go over my head . Keep up the good work. We need you 😊😊😊

I myself want to have more fun with sets that are easier to get. Also it gets boring when everyone is just copying the meta sets and being clones...no offence to min maxers ok.

Personally I love crafted/ dungeon and overland sets and why not shine a light on them right? I would like to see more ideas on set combos.


I quested in eternal hunt set just cause i loved roll dodging and leaving green noxious circles on the ground and I had so much fun with it. I also used it on my lowbies in pvp for a while. I know it is more of a pvp set due to the stamin recovery but it worked great for questing and even dungeons. I guess when you don't have to take things so seriously they can be fun.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

You have pretty average DPS. You will not see the differences in these sets till you get higher, better parses.

AntonShan

POMEH wrote: »

This set has good bonuses and you can buy it in guild stores (its very cheap). Fifth bonus are good for me like magic warden because most warden damage skills has magic damage.

WM doesn't buff your light attack which are main source of damage in magicka builds since Summerset. I think it works best for magicka nightblades since IIRC every ability they have does magic damage. But I didn't see much of a difference between WM and Julianos performance-wise.

Zer0_CooL

POMEH wrote: »

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Why not spinner?

I think that fifth bonus of Spinner (3450 spell penetration) will do less damage than fifth bonuses on War Maiden, Julianos and Spell Strategist. Need to do test.

Would be nice. Im curently using it on my DK for pve. But think it might be not as good for group content because of pen debufs and low resistances of npc's. Might go for the mothers sorrow instead. (sun has life bonus, maiden is mag dmg, and ss is singletarget).

Btw can you simulate debuffs from additional sources on PC test dummies?

POMEH

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Why not spinner?
Btw can you simulate debuffs from additional sources on PC test dummies?

Addon Combat Metrics shows only debuffs on test dummy that I do.

@wishlist14 Thank You

rumple9

Surely necropotence is the better set a lot of the skills are pet damage. I pair it with Julianos

Muzzick

War maiden good on templar if sweeps is ur spammable

POMEH

rumple9 wrote: »

Surely necropotence is the better set a lot of the skills are pet damage. I pair it with Julianos

Necropotence gives only more mana and dont gives damage at all. If I will change Mother Sorrow to Necropotence DPS will decrease and will be about 15k. I have Necropotence and could test it and write details

LeHarrt91

POMEH wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

Surely necropotence is the better set a lot of the skills are pet damage. I pair it with Julianos

Necropotence gives only more mana and dont gives damage at all. If I will change Mother Sorrow to Necropotence DPS will decrease and will be about 15k. I have Necropotence and could test it and write details

Magicka skills scale with your max magicka, so necropotence its actually a good choice. Also the Wardens Blue Betty and Bear proc the 5 piece bonus.

Dagoth_Rac

POMEH wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

Surely necropotence is the better set a lot of the skills are pet damage. I pair it with Julianos

Necropotence gives only more mana and dont gives damage at all. If I will change Mother Sorrow to Necropotence DPS will decrease and will be about 15k. I have Necropotence and could test it and write details

Max magicka gives damage. Every 10.46 points of max magicka scales damage equal to 1.00 spell damage. So the 1096 + 1096 + 1096 + 3150 = 6438 total max magicka from Necropotence is equivalent to about 615 spell damage. Necropotence + Mother's Sorrow is best combo for Pet Sorc, but that is because Sorc pets do not scale off spell damage. So Pet Sorcs avoid spell damage bonuses because they are useless for 2 skills (that have to be on both bars). Necropotence and Mother's Sorrow are perfect because they have no spell damage bonuses. I am not sure if Warden pet skills scale the same as Sorc pets, though. I think (but not positive) that Warden pets scale like everything else in game, not solely on magicka like Sorc pets. If so, Necropotence likely to be very similar to Julianos on Warden because 3150 max magicka from Julianos 5-piece is almost identical to 299 spell damage 5-piece of Julianos.

POMEH

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

POMEH wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

Surely necropotence is the better set a lot of the skills are pet damage. I pair it with Julianos

Necropotence gives only more mana and dont gives damage at all. If I will change Mother Sorrow to Necropotence DPS will decrease and will be about 15k. I have Necropotence and could test it and write details

Max magicka gives damage. Every 10.46 points of max magicka scales damage equal to 1.00 spell damage. So the 1096 + 1096 + 1096 + 3150 = 6438 total max magicka from Necropotence is equivalent to about 615 spell damage. Necropotence + Mother's Sorrow is best combo for Pet Sorc, but that is because Sorc pets do not scale off spell damage. So Pet Sorcs avoid spell damage bonuses because they are useless for 2 skills (that have to be on both bars). Necropotence and Mother's Sorrow are perfect because they have no spell damage bonuses. I am not sure if Warden pet skills scale the same as Sorc pets, though. I think (but not positive) that Warden pets scale like everything else in game, not solely on magicka like Sorc pets. If so, Necropotence likely to be very similar to Julianos on Warden because 3150 max magicka from Julianos 5-piece is almost identical to 299 spell damage 5-piece of Julianos.

I tested it and result: max magicka DO NOT gives more damage on my warden skills. If you dont belive me I could shoot such video where will show it. My damage with 25k magicka is the same as with 30k for example.

rumple9

Look at your tooltips and you will see once a pet is activated the skills do more damage with necropotence due to having more magicka.

In addition to which all your pet skills need to be on the same bar for the advanced species passive (2% extra damage for each pet skill slotted to a maximum of extra 12%). The way OP's bars are set up you are losing a lot of free damage

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

rumple9 wrote: »

Look at your tooltips and you will see once a pet is activated the skills do more damage with necropotence due to having more magicka.

In addition to which all your pet skills need to be on the same bar for the advanced species passive (2% extra damage for each pet skill slotted to a maximum of extra 12%). The way OP's bars are set up you are losing a lot of free damage

this was buffed a couple of patches ago, it is 3% now, with a max of 15%, though most of the time people with only have 9-12% becuase of it.

T3hasiangod

I'm sorry, but there's a lot of bad info in this thread.

1. Max Magicka will boost your overall DPS. Every 10.5 additional Max Magicka is an increase in your effective Spell damage of 1. This means that Necropotence's 5-piece will give approximately 429 effective Spell Damage when you consider all modifiers. For comparison, Julianos adds about 388 Spell damage. However, I will note here that Julianos's other bonuses provide as much or more DPS than Necro's armor bonuses.

2. You have low DPS. Lower DPS results in skewing certain sets as being stronger due to the introduction of a lot of variables, such as heavy attacks, lower LAR, different rotation and CPs, etc. To accurately compare these sets, you need to be at a higher level of DPS, to the point where your rotation is so tight that it becomes a non-factor.

3. War Maiden is a crap set for any magicka DPS. The boost is only to Magic Damage. This will make up usually around 50 percent of your overall DPS at most. If you do the math, the 5-piece will contribute only 200 base Spell Damage, or 260 with buffs. This is lower than what Julianos is able to provide, which is flat Spell Damage so it boosts all damage. War Maiden will always be weaker than Julianos unless you can get at least 75 percent of your damage to come from Magic Damage. This is basically impossible to get on any magicka DPS.

rumple9

Well said

POMEH

T3hasiangod wrote: »

I'm sorry, but there's a lot of bad info in this thread.
War Maiden will always be weaker than Julianos unless you can get at least 75 percent of your damage to come from Magic Damage. This is basically impossible to get on any magicka DPS.

I use light attack + 5 damage skills. 3 of these skills are with magic damage therefore I still use War Maiden cause it brings me more DPS than Julianos. Of course if most your damage skills are without magic damage so prefer to use Julianos.

P.S. I already did campare Necropotence set with another magic damage sets and will start a new thread on forum with my results. But with other magic damage sets including Necropotence my DPS still about 28k.

P.S. Its impossible to save high DPS in solo playing cause you need to run, block mobs attacks so in this case DPS is not so important that to stay alive, dont die under mobs attacks and damage mobs.

LeHarrt91

But Julianos and Necropotence 5 piece bonus will increase your Light and Heavy attacks (not matter what staff) as well as your healing. Unfortunately War Maiden will only increase skills that deal magic damage.

POMEH

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

But Julianos and Necropotence 5 piece bonus will increase your Light and Heavy attacks (not matter what staff) as well as your healing. Unfortunately War Maiden will only increase skills that deal magic damage.

Yes, you right.
My tests shows that I do more damage from skills and not from staff attacks therefore result DPS with War maiden more than Julianos. If I will use only light\heavy attacks without skills attack than Julianos brings more DPS.

I compared Necropotence with Mother sorrow and got result that Mother Sorrow brings more DPS but this I will show in another thread.

T3hasiangod

War Maiden will never be better than Julianos for any magicka DPS.

They have identical 2, 3, and 4 piece bonuses. Therefore, we only need to compare the 5-piece bonus. The effective 5-piece you get from War Maiden is equal to [proportion of Magic Damage] * 400. Julianos will always contribute 299. Set those two values equal to each other and you get ~0.75.

This means 75 percent of your overall DPS MUST be Magic Damage in order for Julianos to be weaker than War Maiden. If you do a controlled parse, you will max out at around 50 percent Magic Damage on a magicka Warden.

This is a huge misconception made by newer players. Just because 3 out of 5 abilities deal Magic or Shock Damage does not mean War Maiden or Netch's Touch is stronger. It's just like how a ton of new petsorcs think Necropotence is the best set because pet damage scales off of Max Magicka. It is not the amount of abilities you used or the absolute damage you deal with a single or multiple abilities. It is the relative contribution to DPS for those abilities. Pet abilities only make up ~20 to 25 percent of your DPS on average. Magdens usually won't break 50 percent Magic Damage. So those sets are weaker than more easily obtained sets like Mother's Sorrow.

Therefore, War Maiden is weaker than Julianos. It is a mathemtical certainty.

By the way, it is very easy to get high DPS on solo play. I can regularly defeat public dungeon and quest bosses within 5 seconds using a standard magden build.

zTrok

tldr: get better deeps and the dps difference will be noticeable. 27k Is far from enough to call yourself an expert. Good effort tho.

driosketch

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

You have pretty average DPS. You will not see the differences in these sets till you get higher, better parses.

I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. How does one increase their DPS if the sets used are not providing advantage over one another? Only thing left is your rotation, the skills used and the order, and your timing, the physical speed and rhythm of your fingers pushing the buttons. And if you tighten the rotation, DPS goes up regardless.

Additionally, you build a rotation to take advantage of the set you're wearing, which can introduce more variables.

zTrok

driosketch wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

You have pretty average DPS. You will not see the differences in these sets till you get higher, better parses.

I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. How does one increase their DPS if the sets used are not providing advantage over one another? Only thing left is your rotation, the skills used and the order, and your timing, the physical speed and rhythm of your fingers pushing the buttons. And if you tighten the rotation, DPS goes up regardless.

Additionally, you build a rotation to take advantage of the set you're wearing, which can introduce more variables.

You just answered your own question. Half of what makes dps is the rotation. I still have yet to "build" a rotation for each individual setup I use but I'm only hitting 53k on a 6mil so what'd I know.

driosketch

zTrok wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

You have pretty average DPS. You will not see the differences in these sets till you get higher, better parses.

I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. How does one increase their DPS if the sets used are not providing advantage over one another? Only thing left is your rotation, the skills used and the order, and your timing, the physical speed and rhythm of your fingers pushing the buttons. And if you tighten the rotation, DPS goes up regardless.

Additionally, you build a rotation to take advantage of the set you're wearing, which can introduce more variables.

You just answered your own question. Half of what makes dps is the rotation. I still have yet to "build" a rotation for each individual setup I use but I'm only hitting 53k on a 6mil so what'd I know.

Yes I did, because it was a rhetorical question. Also, I'm suggesting that rotation is a bigger factor than the sets used. If rotation is 50%, sets are maybe 20%, and circumstances of the fight itself would be like 30%, ballpark. Rough estimate because there is overlap, one effects the others of course.

T3hasiangod

driosketch wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

You have pretty average DPS. You will not see the differences in these sets till you get higher, better parses.

I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. How does one increase their DPS if the sets used are not providing advantage over one another? Only thing left is your rotation, the skills used and the order, and your timing, the physical speed and rhythm of your fingers pushing the buttons. And if you tighten the rotation, DPS goes up regardless.

Additionally, you build a rotation to take advantage of the set you're wearing, which can introduce more variables.

Sorry, but that's just wrong. Your rotation remains largely the same, no matter what gear combo you end up running. Regardless of if you're doing Siroria + SS or MS + BSW or MA + MS, your rotation remains exactly the same, even though you are using very different sets. You do not try to introduce more Flame Damage if you're using BSW because trying to do so will end up reducing your DPS.

Sure, you might add in one or two abilities depending on the fight, but by and large, rotations remains exactly the same across all gear combinations. If you have any experience in end-game PvE content, then you know this to be true, and if you understand how to do high DPS, then you should know why this is this case.