Wings

Xvorg

Aurielle wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

After some open world pvp and battlegrounds the one thing I noticed is that im stunned all the time.

...And??? I’m stunned all the time too — especially when fighting DKs running Fossilize. Welcome to the club.

Your fault for not keeping your distance. When a DK is stunned from distance what does he do?

I'll tell you, break free and stay still. You cannot run towards the other guy because that will burn your stam and a second stun could be devastating. You cannot run away... I mean it is the "stay your ground" class and has 0 chances of skipping a fight ( a running DK is a guy with a neon sign over which says "KILl ME"). So the chance is permablock and burn your stam.

If you play smart against any DK, you just use a stam poison.

Wings were a tool for a class forced to play a game that doesn't exist anymore. The change to wings just put the class in a very strange position because it is still played as old DK, but it got nothing in terms of ranged play style. So no expedition (that buff on a gap closer is only useful for the Xv1 zerging experience), and no range (any DK running a bow or a staff and no melee skills just harm itself)

Davadin

we should just meet half way between old wings and new wings.

2 sec of 100% damage absorption, then 5 sec of 50% after that.

On morph or max level, make that 4sec.

let protective keep the immunity and fire keep their fireballs.


everybody wins.

BlackMadara

Aedaryl wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Omg

Cc immunity last 6s.

If you see a stun coming when u aren't immune, prepare break free or block or dodge.

This is clearly a l2p issue. Everyone is getting stunned. Just break free, if it's a problem to you, learn to break free faster.

What cryingnight will complain next?

there is no cc immunity

There is cc immunity as soon as you break free. L2p

He was talking about wings giving 6 second of cc immunity. Wings now give 0 cc immunity. It used to stop 4 projectiles so up to 4 projectiles stuns could be mitigated.

Any stam class or any non dk magic class faces these same issues but they have other ways around it. Magic dk's cannot dodge roll, clock, teleport or purge. The only option is to block. No other class is reduced to simply blocking as the only way to avoid being stunned.

No. Wings never gave CC immunity. It reflected stuns projectiles. This isn't the same at all'

When a stun end, you cannot be stunned again after 6s.

Everyone is stunned every 6s that's the core of pvp.

If it's not a ranged stun it's melee one.

And be happy when it's ranged, you can block/dodge and it's telegraphed.

That is clearly a L2Read issue.

NO ONE IS SAYING THEY WANT CC IMMUNITY DURING WINGS... He just said that the stuns from projectiles Wings just reflected before should not stun him, cuz before the nerf he would not even have been hit by the skill... You could still be stunned by any melee skill and any nonProjectile ranged CC.
Wings should at least be able to be used for anything...rn if you want snare immunity ur better off simply running RAT or Mist since the 50% less dmg is nowhere nearly as usefull as 4 reflected projectiles, even though it lasts longer and effects an infinite amount of projectiles.

Maybe before Elseweyr wings were to strong in duels (even tho you maybe couldnt kill a mDK through Wings on your mBlade or Sorc, but seriously he shouldnt be able to kill you either, or that is just a L2P issue), but u didnt need to completely destroy the core of the former Wings.
And that simply was being able to reflect stuns / hard hitting ranged skills back to your opponent.

Having 50% mitigation on all ranged attacks + either snare/root removal and immunity or 20k tooltip per second passive damage by pressing a skill every 6s isn't something that "completly destroy wings".

Complaining about being stunned is a l2p issue in this game. There is nothing more to say really.

Also if you actually l2read, you could see the OP have trouble to get his HP back after being CCed, which is a total l2P issue, especially on a DK.

"20k tooltip passive damage"... The damage morph of wings is at 6k (12k per second) for me. Dont know what glass canon build you're using but i dont think you're being realistic here. It averages out to be a bit less damage than the regular reflected projectiles since there was no cooldown on reflect.

And again, i can block stuns just fine... It just sucks that now i have to block projectile stuns that i could just reflect before. My point is that mDK's are just being forced to be even more tanky in pvp.

I found your problem. You run a low lamage DK. The tooltip of your wings should be near 10k per hit.

If you run a bad damage build, you have bad heal. You can have 30k+ resistances and around 10k damage per 0.5s on wings.

Also, theze new wings doesn't count 2 times the resistance.

Stop blocking stun OMG.

Take the stun and break free. There is no reason to want to absolutely block all stuns.

My build gets an 8k wing fireball tooltip. That is with 4k SD and 34k max magicka. Is that a low damage build? Even with 40k max mag and 4.3k SD, the tooltip goes up to 9k. This is with 56 Master-at-Arms and 64 Ele Expert. Increasing SD to 4.5k, 40k max mag, and 100 Master-at-Arms and 100 Ele Expert brings the tooltip to 9.8k.

Granted the previous poster has a rather low tooltip, 10k is not easily accessible. To have 30k resistances with that tooltip would need heavy armor, blood spawn, low regen, lowish hp, and a silly CP allocation.

pieratsos

Veg wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Omg

Cc immunity last 6s.

If you see a stun coming when u aren't immune, prepare break free or block or dodge.

This is clearly a l2p issue. Everyone is getting stunned. Just break free, if it's a problem to you, learn to break free faster.

What cryingnight will complain next?

there is no cc immunity

There is cc immunity as soon as you break free. L2p

He was talking about wings giving 6 second of cc immunity. Wings now give 0 cc immunity. It used to stop 4 projectiles so up to 4 projectiles stuns could be mitigated.

Any stam class or any non dk magic class faces these same issues but they have other ways around it. Magic dk's cannot dodge roll, clock, teleport or purge. The only option is to block. No other class is reduced to simply blocking as the only way to avoid being stunned.

???
What exactly do other classes have which helps them avoid stuns while giving them huge defensive capabilities, mobility or dmg and also allows them to go on the offensive at the same time?

pieratsos

Savos_Saren wrote: »

You know what the sad thing about this class defining skill is? ZOS literally pulled it from the DK and gave it to everyone and then deleted the skill from DK.

At first, Wings were the DK's "reflect" that no one else had. Then ZOS introduced the Sword and Shield ultimate. Then ZOS removed the reflect from Wings all together.

Remember the old Flames of Oblivion? ZOS did the same thing to that skill. They removed it from DKs and gave it to Sorcs.

Summary of ur posts in this thread

ZOS nerfed heavy armor because they hate DK, then they nerfed block because they hate DK, then they took reflect from DK because they hate DK and left it on snb ult so other classes can have reflect because they hate DKs that much, and then they took inferno AOE and gave it to stamsorcs because obviously they hate DKs and god forbid they gave a stam morph to stamsorcs from a skill which already worked like inferno AOE.

Conspiracy theories lvl: 9000

Is lag also an effect cause by ZOS because they hate DKs and dont want you to fight properly? You know, just to be sure.

pieratsos

Xvorg wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Omg

Cc immunity last 6s.

If you see a stun coming when u aren't immune, prepare break free or block or dodge.

This is clearly a l2p issue. Everyone is getting stunned. Just break free, if it's a problem to you, learn to break free faster.

What cryingnight will complain next?

there is no cc immunity

There is cc immunity as soon as you break free. L2p

He was talking about wings giving 6 second of cc immunity. Wings now give 0 cc immunity. It used to stop 4 projectiles so up to 4 projectiles stuns could be mitigated.

Any stam class or any non dk magic class faces these same issues but they have other ways around it. Magic dk's cannot dodge roll, clock, teleport or purge. The only option is to block. No other class is reduced to simply blocking as the only way to avoid being stunned.

No. Wings never gave CC immunity. It reflected stuns projectiles. This isn't the same at all'

When a stun end, you cannot be stunned again after 6s.

Everyone is stunned every 6s that's the core of pvp.

If it's not a ranged stun it's melee one.

And be happy when it's ranged, you can block/dodge and it's telegraphed.

That is clearly a L2Read issue.

NO ONE IS SAYING THEY WANT CC IMMUNITY DURING WINGS... He just said that the stuns from projectiles Wings just reflected before should not stun him, cuz before the nerf he would not even have been hit by the skill... You could still be stunned by any melee skill and any nonProjectile ranged CC.
Wings should at least be able to be used for anything...rn if you want snare immunity ur better off simply running RAT or Mist since the 50% less dmg is nowhere nearly as usefull as 4 reflected projectiles, even though it lasts longer and effects an infinite amount of projectiles.

Maybe before Elseweyr wings were to strong in duels (even tho you maybe couldnt kill a mDK through Wings on your mBlade or Sorc, but seriously he shouldnt be able to kill you either, or that is just a L2P issue), but u didnt need to completely destroy the core of the former Wings.
And that simply was being able to reflect stuns / hard hitting ranged skills back to your opponent.

Having 50% mitigation on all ranged attacks + either snare/root removal and immunity or 20k tooltip per second passive damage by pressing a skill every 6s isn't something that "completly destroy wings".

Complaining about being stunned is a l2p issue in this game. There is nothing more to say really.

Also if you actually l2read, you could see the OP have trouble to get his HP back after being CCed, which is a total l2P issue, especially on a DK.

"20k tooltip passive damage"... The damage morph of wings is at 6k (12k per second) for me. Dont know what glass canon build you're using but i dont think you're being realistic here. It averages out to be a bit less damage than the regular reflected projectiles since there was no cooldown on reflect.

And again, i can block stuns just fine... It just sucks that now i have to block projectile stuns that i could just reflect before. My point is that mDK's are just being forced to be even more tanky in pvp.

I found your problem. You run a low lamage DK. The tooltip of your wings should be near 10k per hit.

If you run a bad damage build, you have bad heal. You can have 30k+ resistances and around 10k damage per 0.5s on wings.

Also, theze new wings doesn't count 2 times the resistance.

Stop blocking stun OMG.

Take the stun and break free. There is no reason to want to absolutely block all stuns.

Please, teach us all how to run a High dmg mDK...

there's no such thing. DK cannot go full dmg or tanky without running with 800 stam or mag recovery. If you don't have a clue about the class, please, avoid spreading misinformation.

From a quick "magicka DK PVP" search into youtube i bumped on the first video of someone rocking 26k resistances without protective and bloodspawn, 27k hp without emp buff, 19k stamina with snb for plenty of blocking and a whooping fully buffed 5k spell damage. Btw thats with rattlecage which means he is essentially wasting a 5 piece bonus set in terms of max stats.

Seems like you are the one spreading misinformation

Oh and btw, he was in light armor having plenty of cost reduction and decent 1.4k unbuffed regen. You know, just in case you ask about regen.

Insco851

Xvorg wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

Previous version of wings was not too strong new new iterations is simply boring,plain and unimaginative. No matter if it's a buff or nerf depending on combat scale.

Not too strong? My magDK could completely shut down ranged magNBs and significantly limit the damage of other ranged builds to one or two skills with perma wings spam. It could also easily gap-close, Fossilize, and delete any other player harassing me from range. Elsweyr hasn’t hit consoles yet, but I’ll be glad when it does, as I’ll actually have to work a little harder for my kills against ranged classes.

that's only possible on a Nord DK. Rest of DK just suck at it.

You know why? And you know that you can do the same in any class that's Nord?

So, your advice is to all DKs to run Nord, right?

Only nord can gap close.... TIL

pieratsos

Xvorg wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

Previous version of wings was not too strong new new iterations is simply boring,plain and unimaginative. No matter if it's a buff or nerf depending on combat scale.

Not too strong? My magDK could completely shut down ranged magNBs and significantly limit the damage of other ranged builds to one or two skills with perma wings spam. It could also easily gap-close, Fossilize, and delete any other player harassing me from range. Elsweyr hasn’t hit consoles yet, but I’ll be glad when it does, as I’ll actually have to work a little harder for my kills against ranged classes.

that's only possible on a Nord DK. Rest of DK just suck at it.

You know why? And you know that you can do the same in any class that's Nord?

So, your advice is to all DKs to run Nord, right?

I wasnt aware that only Nords are allowed to use gap closers. Must have missed it in the patch notes.

Davadin

Xvorg wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

Previous version of wings was not too strong new new iterations is simply boring,plain and unimaginative. No matter if it's a buff or nerf depending on combat scale.

Not too strong? My magDK could completely shut down ranged magNBs and significantly limit the damage of other ranged builds to one or two skills with perma wings spam. It could also easily gap-close, Fossilize, and delete any other player harassing me from range. Elsweyr hasn’t hit consoles yet, but I’ll be glad when it does, as I’ll actually have to work a little harder for my kills against ranged classes.

that's only possible on a Nord DK. Rest of DK just suck at it.

You know why? And you know that you can do the same in any class that's Nord?

So, your advice is to all DKs to run Nord, right?

Ooooh as a Nord DK, now I'm curious.


How exactly extra resistance or ulti regen makes it easier to gap-close?

Wait, you talkin about leap? Like, Nords are ultimate ulti-generator or somethin? Or is there something special with Crit Rush, Invasion, Sorcs teleport, or DK chain pull, or Silver Leash or ANYTHING has to do with being a Nord?

Anyron

Savos_Saren wrote: »

So, we try to adapt. MagDKs used to wear heavy armor... but that was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we used to use permablock builds to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we resorted to Wings to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed.

MagDKs don't have a purge, don't have a cloak, our heal isn't strong enough to out heal bleeds, we don't have an OP class shield, we don't have a class execute (active or passive) to stack with our damage. Our DOTs can be purged, healed through by vigor, and even just cloaked away.

You know what's even better now? People in the forums are complaining that Protective Trait rings are OP now. Soon, we won't be able to run light armor builds while trying to maintain some semblance of tankiness.

Hardened ward is now just as strong as dampen magic ( light armor skill)
Sorcerer has even less class heals than dk
You still think sorc has better options than your DK?

Insco851

Anyron wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

So, we try to adapt. MagDKs used to wear heavy armor... but that was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we used to use permablock builds to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we resorted to Wings to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed.

MagDKs don't have a purge, don't have a cloak, our heal isn't strong enough to out heal bleeds, we don't have an OP class shield, we don't have a class execute (active or passive) to stack with our damage. Our DOTs can be purged, healed through by vigor, and even just cloaked away.

You know what's even better now? People in the forums are complaining that Protective Trait rings are OP now. Soon, we won't be able to run light armor builds while trying to maintain some semblance of tankiness.

Hardened ward is now just as strong as dampen magic ( light armor skill)
Sorcerer has even less class heals than dk
You still think sorc has better options than your DK?

So you have 17-18k shield stack instead of 20k? Not op at all.

Anyron

Veg wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

So, we try to adapt. MagDKs used to wear heavy armor... but that was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we used to use permablock builds to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we resorted to Wings to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed.

MagDKs don't have a purge, don't have a cloak, our heal isn't strong enough to out heal bleeds, we don't have an OP class shield, we don't have a class execute (active or passive) to stack with our damage. Our DOTs can be purged, healed through by vigor, and even just cloaked away.

You know what's even better now? People in the forums are complaining that Protective Trait rings are OP now. Soon, we won't be able to run light armor builds while trying to maintain some semblance of tankiness.

Bias on bias.

oUr hEaL iSnT sToNg eNoUgH

You have :

A burst heal stronger than the templar one
A HoT stronger than vigor
An other hot which is more passive and also strong
A dot that burst heal you when desired
Major mending + 12% healing increase

And tons of other heal.

Can you stop acting like taking 50% less damage on ranged attack +, having the best self healing toolkit being something weak?

It's not about the damage mitigation per projectile. It's about the lack of stun mitigation/stun recovery. Every other class has some way to mitigate or recover from stuns in some way other than blocking.

Disclaimer: I can tank just fine this patch. not zerg tanking but i can hold off 5-8 people. The problem is non tanks. Any non tank magic DK has to rely on the nerfed blocking mechanic as their only means of defense. This only pushes tanking as the magic DK playstyle.

You need to play correctly.

There is stun, break free and immunity.

There is no stun recovery in this game after the universal CC immunity.

You clearly have a problem playing the meta dk build.

Again, im making the point that wings used to mitigate stuns from projectiles and now it does not. Stun recovery can be anything as simple as a high max stamina pool. Magic dk's have literally nothing to stop stuns other than blocking. We get nothing for using the stamina for a break free. We have been reduced to blocking literally everything. This only makes more players become super tanks. That fact the Dk passives make tanking a dream come true doesnt help.

The whole point of this threads is to make Magic DK's play more offensive in pvp. Less standing still blocking (which is very much viable) and more skilled play.

Insco851 wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

So, we try to adapt. MagDKs used to wear heavy armor... but that was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we used to use permablock builds to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we resorted to Wings to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed.

MagDKs don't have a purge, don't have a cloak, our heal isn't strong enough to out heal bleeds, we don't have an OP class shield, we don't have a class execute (active or passive) to stack with our damage. Our DOTs can be purged, healed through by vigor, and even just cloaked away.

You know what's even better now? People in the forums are complaining that Protective Trait rings are OP now. Soon, we won't be able to run light armor builds while trying to maintain some semblance of tankiness.

Hardened ward is now just as strong as dampen magic ( light armor skill)
Sorcerer has even less class heals than dk
You still think sorc has better options than your DK?

So you have 17-18k shield stack instead of 20k? Not op at all.

If you stack them. I dont

Insco851

Anyron wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

So, we try to adapt. MagDKs used to wear heavy armor... but that was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we used to use permablock builds to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we resorted to Wings to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed.

MagDKs don't have a purge, don't have a cloak, our heal isn't strong enough to out heal bleeds, we don't have an OP class shield, we don't have a class execute (active or passive) to stack with our damage. Our DOTs can be purged, healed through by vigor, and even just cloaked away.

You know what's even better now? People in the forums are complaining that Protective Trait rings are OP now. Soon, we won't be able to run light armor builds while trying to maintain some semblance of tankiness.

Bias on bias.

oUr hEaL iSnT sToNg eNoUgH

You have :

A burst heal stronger than the templar one
A HoT stronger than vigor
An other hot which is more passive and also strong
A dot that burst heal you when desired
Major mending + 12% healing increase

And tons of other heal.

Can you stop acting like taking 50% less damage on ranged attack +, having the best self healing toolkit being something weak?

It's not about the damage mitigation per projectile. It's about the lack of stun mitigation/stun recovery. Every other class has some way to mitigate or recover from stuns in some way other than blocking.

Disclaimer: I can tank just fine this patch. not zerg tanking but i can hold off 5-8 people. The problem is non tanks. Any non tank magic DK has to rely on the nerfed blocking mechanic as their only means of defense. This only pushes tanking as the magic DK playstyle.

You need to play correctly.

There is stun, break free and immunity.

There is no stun recovery in this game after the universal CC immunity.

You clearly have a problem playing the meta dk build.

Again, im making the point that wings used to mitigate stuns from projectiles and now it does not. Stun recovery can be anything as simple as a high max stamina pool. Magic dk's have literally nothing to stop stuns other than blocking. We get nothing for using the stamina for a break free. We have been reduced to blocking literally everything. This only makes more players become super tanks. That fact the Dk passives make tanking a dream come true doesnt help.

The whole point of this threads is to make Magic DK's play more offensive in pvp. Less standing still blocking (which is very much viable) and more skilled play.

Insco851 wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

So, we try to adapt. MagDKs used to wear heavy armor... but that was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we used to use permablock builds to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we resorted to Wings to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed.

MagDKs don't have a purge, don't have a cloak, our heal isn't strong enough to out heal bleeds, we don't have an OP class shield, we don't have a class execute (active or passive) to stack with our damage. Our DOTs can be purged, healed through by vigor, and even just cloaked away.

You know what's even better now? People in the forums are complaining that Protective Trait rings are OP now. Soon, we won't be able to run light armor builds while trying to maintain some semblance of tankiness.

Hardened ward is now just as strong as dampen magic ( light armor skill)
Sorcerer has even less class heals than dk
You still think sorc has better options than your DK?

So you have 17-18k shield stack instead of 20k? Not op at all.

If you stack them. I dont

You are in the vast minority then. And you should blame the majority because the “fix nerf” came at the hands of what the clear meta has been.

27-28 health. 27-32k resists. 20k shield stack.

Here is how hard magsorc survival is

krathos

This is a weird thread all around... MagDK is one of the strongest classes right now.

New wings is way, way better than old wings. Period.

• The fireball returned is a lot of pressure
• It reduces the damage of more ranged abilities than wings used to reflect. Pretty sure it's using the old projectile rules or reducing damage of all ranged abilities. For example, Crushing Shock is reduced in new wings but that hasn't been reflectable for quite a while. This has been tested.
• It allows you to mitigate huge damage at a low cost rather than constantly spamming wings

MagDK has good mobility now. Chains has been improved and stacks seething, in fact you can use it to stack seething for free in a lot of cases because it returns the cost if they can't be pulled. It's not dodgeable anymore, gives expedition. Also Race Against Time is really strong giving expedition, snare immunity/removal, and minor force. Not to mention the snare effectiveness and sprint cost buffs to light armor

MagDK has great sustain now. Simply running LA + Breton means you can run full damage glyphs, food, mundus, and double damage sets. It also has incredibly good stam sustain.

MagDK has great sustained and burst damage. Speaking of stacking seething fury... the extra 375 spell damage you can stack + a huge burst potential on molten whip is almost unmatched by any other class except for maybe the will proc from NB and even then. Engulfing initial damage is really high now too as well as a huge damage buff to all AoEs such as talons, deep breath, etc.

MagDK has great healing. The best part about magdk healing is that most of it is available as offensive pressure or while going offesnive. Deep breath, whip, embers, battle roar, cauterize. Cinder storm is good situationally. And Coag got a significant buff this patch and is capable of hitting huge numbers.

Insco851

krathos wrote: »

This is a weird thread all around... MagDK is one of the strongest classes right now.

New wings is way, way better than old wings. Period.

• The fireball returned is a lot of pressure
• It reduces the damage of more ranged abilities than wings used to reflect. Pretty sure it's using the old projectile rules or reducing damage of all ranged abilities. For example, Crushing Shock is reduced in new wings but that hasn't been reflectable for quite a while. This has been tested.
• It allows you to mitigate huge damage at a low cost rather than constantly spamming wings

MagDK has good mobility now. Chains has been improved and stacks seething, in fact you can use it to stack seething for free in a lot of cases because it returns the cost if they can't be pulled. It's not dodgeable anymore, gives expedition. Also Race Against Time is really strong giving expedition, snare immunity/removal, and minor force. Not to mention the snare effectiveness and sprint cost buffs to light armor

MagDK has great sustain now. Simply running LA + Breton means you can run full damage glyphs, food, mundus, and double damage sets. It also has incredibly good stam sustain.

MagDK has great sustained and burst damage. Speaking of stacking seething fury... the extra 375 spell damage you can stack + a huge burst potential on molten whip is almost unmatched by any other class except for maybe the will proc from NB and even then. Engulfing initial damage is really high now too as well as a huge damage buff to all AoEs such as talons, deep breath, etc.

MagDK has great healing. The best part about magdk healing is that most of it is available as offensive pressure or while going offesnive. Deep breath, whip, embers, battle roar, cauterize. Cinder storm is good situationally. And Coag got a significant buff this patch and is capable of hitting huge numbers.

Finally someone who gets it

Arzharo

Aedaryl wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Omg

Cc immunity last 6s.

If you see a stun coming when u aren't immune, prepare break free or block or dodge.

This is clearly a l2p issue. Everyone is getting stunned. Just break free, if it's a problem to you, learn to break free faster.

What cryingnight will complain next?

there is no cc immunity

There is cc immunity as soon as you break free. L2p

He was talking about wings giving 6 second of cc immunity. Wings now give 0 cc immunity. It used to stop 4 projectiles so up to 4 projectiles stuns could be mitigated.

Any stam class or any non dk magic class faces these same issues but they have other ways around it. Magic dk's cannot dodge roll, clock, teleport or purge. The only option is to block. No other class is reduced to simply blocking as the only way to avoid being stunned.

No. Wings never gave CC immunity. It reflected stuns projectiles. This isn't the same at all'

When a stun end, you cannot be stunned again after 6s.

Everyone is stunned every 6s that's the core of pvp.

If it's not a ranged stun it's melee one.

And be happy when it's ranged, you can block/dodge and it's telegraphed.

That is clearly a L2Read issue.

NO ONE IS SAYING THEY WANT CC IMMUNITY DURING WINGS... He just said that the stuns from projectiles Wings just reflected before should not stun him, cuz before the nerf he would not even have been hit by the skill... You could still be stunned by any melee skill and any nonProjectile ranged CC.
Wings should at least be able to be used for anything...rn if you want snare immunity ur better off simply running RAT or Mist since the 50% less dmg is nowhere nearly as usefull as 4 reflected projectiles, even though it lasts longer and effects an infinite amount of projectiles.

Maybe before Elseweyr wings were to strong in duels (even tho you maybe couldnt kill a mDK through Wings on your mBlade or Sorc, but seriously he shouldnt be able to kill you either, or that is just a L2P issue), but u didnt need to completely destroy the core of the former Wings.
And that simply was being able to reflect stuns / hard hitting ranged skills back to your opponent.

Having 50% mitigation on all ranged attacks + either snare/root removal and immunity or 20k tooltip per second passive damage by pressing a skill every 6s isn't something that "completly destroy wings".

Complaining about being stunned is a l2p issue in this game. There is nothing more to say really.

Also if you actually l2read, you could see the OP have trouble to get his HP back after being CCed, which is a total l2P issue, especially on a DK.

There is no 50 % damage mitigation against all ranged attacks. Wings only works for a few projectiles now and is pretty much useless.

Dks have no cleanse/purge. All dots still do full damage through wings. "Projectiles" such as valkyn still does full damage through the 50 % projectile "reduction".

Wings morph should purge now instead of just remove snares.

Edit: I'm playing a stamdk and stamdks are free kills now.

Aedaryl

Arzharo wrote: »

There is no 50 % damage mitigation against all ranged attacks. Wings only works for a few projectiles now and is pretty much useless.

Dks have no cleanse/purge. All dots still do full damage through wings. "Projectiles" such as valkyn still does full damage through the 50 % projectile "reduction".

Wings morph should purge now instead of just remove snares.

Edit: I'm playing a stamdk and stamdks are free kills now.

This is amazing.

wInGs oNlY wOrKS fOr a FeW pRojEcTiLeS nOw

New wings work on almost all ranged attacks, and it works on more abilities than before. This is a fact.

Also saying stamdks are free kills just show that your "feelings" are based on low skill level and experience.

StShoot

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Magic DK's cannot dodge roll, teleport, cloak or remove debuffs..

They may not be able to port or cloak, but there is for example Purge from the Support Skillline, also there are max Resource buffood for a biger Stampool which allows you to do at least 3 rolls in a row.

Yeah right that purge... that purge that noone uses outside of ballgroups... i wonder why ? maybe because most of the dots and debuffs in this game nearly come for free while that thing purges only two effects and costs a *** ton of magica?(8k/4k)

Neloth

Insco851 wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

So, we try to adapt. MagDKs used to wear heavy armor... but that was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we used to use permablock builds to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we resorted to Wings to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed.

MagDKs don't have a purge, don't have a cloak, our heal isn't strong enough to out heal bleeds, we don't have an OP class shield, we don't have a class execute (active or passive) to stack with our damage. Our DOTs can be purged, healed through by vigor, and even just cloaked away.

You know what's even better now? People in the forums are complaining that Protective Trait rings are OP now. Soon, we won't be able to run light armor builds while trying to maintain some semblance of tankiness.

Hardened ward is now just as strong as dampen magic ( light armor skill)
Sorcerer has even less class heals than dk
You still think sorc has better options than your DK?

So you have 17-18k shield stack instead of 20k? Not op at all.

Don't want to disappoint you, but my hardened is 14.5k size in cyro. I'm sure I can easily get 15k+, if start sacrificing something (sustain or skill slots).

And If I stack it with dampen, ufff... Why would I want to do it, though.

Insco851

Neloth wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

So, we try to adapt. MagDKs used to wear heavy armor... but that was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we used to use permablock builds to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we resorted to Wings to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed.

MagDKs don't have a purge, don't have a cloak, our heal isn't strong enough to out heal bleeds, we don't have an OP class shield, we don't have a class execute (active or passive) to stack with our damage. Our DOTs can be purged, healed through by vigor, and even just cloaked away.

You know what's even better now? People in the forums are complaining that Protective Trait rings are OP now. Soon, we won't be able to run light armor builds while trying to maintain some semblance of tankiness.

Hardened ward is now just as strong as dampen magic ( light armor skill)
Sorcerer has even less class heals than dk
You still think sorc has better options than your DK?

So you have 17-18k shield stack instead of 20k? Not op at all.

Don't want to disappoint you, but my hardened is 14.5k size in cyro. I'm sure I can easily get 15k+, if start sacrificing something (sustain or skill slots).

And If I stack it with dampen, ufff... Why would I want to do it, though.

Even after the 20% nerf? lol interesting.

Davadin

Arzharo wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Omg

Cc immunity last 6s.

If you see a stun coming when u aren't immune, prepare break free or block or dodge.

This is clearly a l2p issue. Everyone is getting stunned. Just break free, if it's a problem to you, learn to break free faster.

What cryingnight will complain next?

there is no cc immunity

There is cc immunity as soon as you break free. L2p

He was talking about wings giving 6 second of cc immunity. Wings now give 0 cc immunity. It used to stop 4 projectiles so up to 4 projectiles stuns could be mitigated.

Any stam class or any non dk magic class faces these same issues but they have other ways around it. Magic dk's cannot dodge roll, clock, teleport or purge. The only option is to block. No other class is reduced to simply blocking as the only way to avoid being stunned.

No. Wings never gave CC immunity. It reflected stuns projectiles. This isn't the same at all'

When a stun end, you cannot be stunned again after 6s.

Everyone is stunned every 6s that's the core of pvp.

If it's not a ranged stun it's melee one.

And be happy when it's ranged, you can block/dodge and it's telegraphed.

That is clearly a L2Read issue.

NO ONE IS SAYING THEY WANT CC IMMUNITY DURING WINGS... He just said that the stuns from projectiles Wings just reflected before should not stun him, cuz before the nerf he would not even have been hit by the skill... You could still be stunned by any melee skill and any nonProjectile ranged CC.
Wings should at least be able to be used for anything...rn if you want snare immunity ur better off simply running RAT or Mist since the 50% less dmg is nowhere nearly as usefull as 4 reflected projectiles, even though it lasts longer and effects an infinite amount of projectiles.

Maybe before Elseweyr wings were to strong in duels (even tho you maybe couldnt kill a mDK through Wings on your mBlade or Sorc, but seriously he shouldnt be able to kill you either, or that is just a L2P issue), but u didnt need to completely destroy the core of the former Wings.
And that simply was being able to reflect stuns / hard hitting ranged skills back to your opponent.

Having 50% mitigation on all ranged attacks + either snare/root removal and immunity or 20k tooltip per second passive damage by pressing a skill every 6s isn't something that "completly destroy wings".

Complaining about being stunned is a l2p issue in this game. There is nothing more to say really.

Also if you actually l2read, you could see the OP have trouble to get his HP back after being CCed, which is a total l2P issue, especially on a DK.

There is no 50 % damage mitigation against all ranged attacks. Wings only works for a few projectiles now and is pretty much useless.

Dks have no cleanse/purge. All dots still do full damage through wings. "Projectiles" such as valkyn still does full damage through the 50 % projectile "reduction".

Wings morph should purge now instead of just remove snares.

Edit: I'm playing a stamdk and stamdks are free kills now.

maybe not all, but definitely most.

also, if ranged DoT hurts you that bad, you need to rethink your build.

StamDK here, and although I die *ALOT* (ask anyone plays Kaal PC NA), if I want to I can turtle up and run away.... with NO Wings. StamDK is FAR from being free kills......


Yes, I don't slot wings regularly. Was testing it the past few days, but I prefer Race Against Time and 2H's Forward Momentum to deal with snares. Before Elswyer, I rarely slot wings as well. I'd rather Leap the gap and melt their face, or break their LOS. 4 projectiles in old wings is nothing.

Neloth

Insco851 wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

So, we try to adapt. MagDKs used to wear heavy armor... but that was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we used to use permablock builds to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we resorted to Wings to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed.

MagDKs don't have a purge, don't have a cloak, our heal isn't strong enough to out heal bleeds, we don't have an OP class shield, we don't have a class execute (active or passive) to stack with our damage. Our DOTs can be purged, healed through by vigor, and even just cloaked away.

You know what's even better now? People in the forums are complaining that Protective Trait rings are OP now. Soon, we won't be able to run light armor builds while trying to maintain some semblance of tankiness.

Hardened ward is now just as strong as dampen magic ( light armor skill)
Sorcerer has even less class heals than dk
You still think sorc has better options than your DK?

So you have 17-18k shield stack instead of 20k? Not op at all.

Don't want to disappoint you, but my hardened is 14.5k size in cyro. I'm sure I can easily get 15k+, if start sacrificing something (sustain or skill slots).

And If I stack it with dampen, ufff... Why would I want to do it, though.

Even after the 20% nerf? lol interesting.

They nerfed fixed hardened, but introduced crafty alfiq

Just had to put a few more points into bastion, too

Insco851

Neloth wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

So, we try to adapt. MagDKs used to wear heavy armor... but that was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we used to use permablock builds to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed. Then, we resorted to Wings to defend ourselves. That was deemed OP- so it got nerfed.

MagDKs don't have a purge, don't have a cloak, our heal isn't strong enough to out heal bleeds, we don't have an OP class shield, we don't have a class execute (active or passive) to stack with our damage. Our DOTs can be purged, healed through by vigor, and even just cloaked away.

You know what's even better now? People in the forums are complaining that Protective Trait rings are OP now. Soon, we won't be able to run light armor builds while trying to maintain some semblance of tankiness.

Hardened ward is now just as strong as dampen magic ( light armor skill)
Sorcerer has even less class heals than dk
You still think sorc has better options than your DK?

So you have 17-18k shield stack instead of 20k? Not op at all.

Don't want to disappoint you, but my hardened is 14.5k size in cyro. I'm sure I can easily get 15k+, if start sacrificing something (sustain or skill slots).

And If I stack it with dampen, ufff... Why would I want to do it, though.

Even after the 20% nerf? lol interesting.

They nerfed fixed hardened, but introduced crafty alfiq

Just had to put a few more points into bastion, too

Yea I figured it was alfiq

Dr_Ganknstein

When all the kids that wanted to run around and make 1vX videos crutching on op wings find out they suck at the game.

JumpmanLane

Aurielle wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

Previous version of wings was not too strong new new iterations is simply boring,plain and unimaginative. No matter if it's a buff or nerf depending on combat scale.

Not too strong? My magDK could completely shut down ranged magNBs and significantly limit the damage of other ranged builds to one or two skills with perma wings spam. It could also easily gap-close, Fossilize, and delete any other player harassing me from range. Elsweyr hasn’t hit consoles yet, but I’ll be glad when it does, as I’ll actually have to work a little harder for my kills against ranged classes.

Not really. Wings SnB is like 90% mitigation on ALL projectiles vs 100% on FOUR.

Not so bad really.

Davadin

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

Previous version of wings was not too strong new new iterations is simply boring,plain and unimaginative. No matter if it's a buff or nerf depending on combat scale.

Not too strong? My magDK could completely shut down ranged magNBs and significantly limit the damage of other ranged builds to one or two skills with perma wings spam. It could also easily gap-close, Fossilize, and delete any other player harassing me from range. Elsweyr hasn’t hit consoles yet, but I’ll be glad when it does, as I’ll actually have to work a little harder for my kills against ranged classes.

Not really. Wings SnB is like 90% mitigation on ALL projectiles vs 100% on FOUR.

Not so bad really.

I'm honestly curious on how this would calculate. assuming when ur blocking or using a skill, u get roughly half the damage. with new wings up, is it half of the remaining?

Toc de Malsvi

Wings neuters ranged damage now but doesn't return the damage. Mag DK's are considerably stronger now. Many DK's don't even slot wings, Seething Fury is very very strong.

Mag DK gets buffed across the board, but the wailing continues cause OP reflect got removed.

Davadin

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Wings neuters ranged damage now but doesn't return the damage. Mag DK's are considerably stronger now. Many DK's don't even slot wings, Seething Fury is very very strong.

Mag DK gets buffed across the board, but the wailing continues cause OP reflect got removed.

it's the stamDK that cries.

or at least one that use wings as a crutch.