Can we get a veteran overworld mode that disables champion points or something? Power creep ruins it

AlexanderDeLarge

Let me disable my champion points in the overworld in exchange for more XP and better loot.... Or propose something better because even Craglorn, the one adventure zone intended for groups in the game is trivial at higher Champion Point levels. It's to the point where whenever I do PvE content like Elsweyr or Murkmire I respec out of my Champion Points so I can have somewhat of a challenge in the overworld and not just two shot everything. It's no fun, there's no risk and it's all reward for monotonous gameplay that isn't the slightest bit of challenge and I certainly shouldn't have to pay to have an acceptable PvE experience.

I know this is a bandage on a gunshot wound of a disastrous system that they've said they're going to overhaul but it'd be nice to have something in the short term until the Champion Point overhaul comes and addresses the insane power creep in this game. I'm not blaming the champion point system entirely for the power creep problem but it sure doesn't help and it'd be nice to be able to disable them without spending my gold on speccing out of it anytime I don't want to sneeze and kill five enemies that the questing dialog that have built them up to be menacing foes.

Yigrok

That's the whole point of overland... It's so that everyone can experience the content and story at a normal pace. If you want challenging content... then go do challenging content.

AlexanderDeLarge

Yigrok wrote: »

That's the whole point of overland... It's so that everyone can experience the content and story at a normal pace. If you want challenging content... then go do challenging content.

Normal dungeons exist and Veteran dungeons exist. Why can't the same logic apply to the overworld where the vast majority of the content exists? Not only are endgame level players parsing 30-80K damage per second (most enemies hover around 30,000-40,000 health) at CP810, they're getting flat modifiers that make the damage and resource numbers go higher so it's even more trivial.

Disabling my champion points is a completely different and more enjoyable experience. Why the hell am I paying for the privilege of not being in god mode?

phaneub17_ESO

You already have the option to turn off Champion Points, just don't allocate any on a character. Pay that 3000 gold to reset it then don't do anything after that. You want more of a challenge, get or craft lower level gear which will reduce your stats while still having the set bonuses; originally the game only went up to VR10 so 100cp gear should be about the equivalent. Then play with like-minded players so you have your challenge without others getting in the way with their 160cp gear and full out champion points.

RaptorRodeoGod

I could go into overland without CP or armor and still face roll it. It's not just CP that's the issue.

Yigrok

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Yigrok wrote: »

That's the whole point of overland... It's so that everyone can experience the content and story at a normal pace. If you want challenging content... then go do challenging content.

Normal dungeons exist and Veteran dungeons exist. Why can't the same logic apply to the overworld where the vast majority of the content exists? Not only are endgame level players parsing 30-80K damage per second (most enemies hover around 30,000-40,000 health) at CP810, they're getting flat modifiers that make the damage and resource numbers go higher so it's even more trivial.

Disabling my champion points is a completely different and more enjoyable experience. Why the hell am I paying for the privilege of not being in god mode?

Because that's what the content meant for "challenges" is. Instances. They can't go around and start instancing the world to cater every players need. That would suck.
That would mean that they would need a separate instance for players like you, who want a challenge in overland, then another "normal" instance, and then, you would have even a more split player base.

There are some quests in ESO (or were), where some players were instanced differently because of the so called "phasing".
Players were really pissed off back then about that, so imagine what people would think if they would introduce even more of that.
I get that you want to experience content at a more challenging level, and so would others. But the real interest in this is still too low for them to even consider making this.

And imagine if they would make it happen, and not by different "phases", just flat out increase the difficulty of overland (throwback to Craglorn when vet levels existed), the forums would flood with people expressing their frustration with this.
Not everyone has a lot of time playing games as other people do, so for that person to try to complete 1 quest chain, and failing over and over because the content is made to be harder, that would make for one angry customer.

AlexanderDeLarge

People were upset about phasing because it didn't even work. Of course people don't like something when it doesn't work properly. I didn't like Craglorn at release either back when group content didn't work correctly but that doesn't mean I dislike group content and it's a damn shame ZOS received the wrong message from players on that issue too.

casparian

Yigrok wrote: »

That's the whole point of overland... It's so that everyone can experience the content and story at a normal pace. If you want challenging content... then go do challenging content.

But I can't experience story content at a normal pace. Even in an intentionally gimped setup, nothing is remotely threatening and everything dies before my skills finish casting. I'm just out here trying to have an immersive story experience and this supposedly scary quest boss can't even dent my health bar or finish his voice lines before I've killed him. And that's not wearing anything even close to BIS gear.

No one is asking for the overland to get a Dark Souls mode, but the status quo feels worse than Skyrim on novice, and makes it impossible for many of us to feel immersed in the world.

Hallothiel

As I posted in a similar thread, and which someone has mentioned on above, this would mean separating out the players - in an mmo.

Overland is for players to quest, rp, play with friends, learn new skills, harvest mats and to get to grips with the game. So you find it easy? Well if you have been playing for so long then thats not a surprise - you understand how the game works. Not everyone has that knowledge yet.

This is how this game is. If you want uber difficulty then perhaps play another game? I mean, i love being able to jump & climb over everything but i cant do that in this game - nor do i demand it; i just go and play AC for while. The game cant be everything to everyone.

And another suggestion for pc players who think things too easy - turn off all your lovely combat add-ons 😉

idk

Yes, power creep is a big issue with overland. But CP is not a significant contributor to power creep. We are stronger today than before CP was crushed in Morrowind 2 year ago and added CP points did not catch CP back up yet.

If it is not complicated then there should be a toggle that weakens our character. It may not the same as battle spirit since that affects everyone.

However, loot quality or quantity should not change. It should be there only for a choice of difficulty.

FierceSam

You lost me when you started to demand more loot

AlexanderDeLarge

FierceSam wrote: »

You lost me when you started to demand more loot

Why? We get more and better loot in veteran dungeons and trials so why wouldn't the same logic apply to an overworld that is increased in difficulty? I'm only suggesting a response to a problem that ZOS created. Their lack of transparency on the subject isn't helping matters much either.

Jhalin

I have to actively not use any abilities at all if I want to experience a “boss fight”, which even then still doesn’t make them any more threatening

Did anyone else know one of the side quest bosses has a mechanic that makes him immune when he summons clones?

Did anyone get to hear the entire dialogue sequence from Zumog’s fight?

The only true boss fight was the final, and that one forcibly stopped the fighting for a while and had a mechanic that couldn’t (presumably, I haven’t done it on another toon to try standing in the fire) be ignored or burst through.

Say it’s for casuals all you want, it’s still too nonthreatening as a whole no boss feels impactful when you sneeze and it dies, and hardly any of the is the fault of CP

MartiniDaniels

FierceSam wrote: »

You lost me when you started to demand more loot

There is some serious misunderstanding between two camps. What we (OP) want is to have normal RPG experience in overland similar to Skyrim/Witcher/DragonAge whatever. So you need to have at least some primitive tactics to defeat enemies and not just mash la+spammable/aoe with zero chances to die. Considering more loot it's how progression system works - harder difficulty -> better loot, otherwise it's pointless, from psychology side. Nobody wants to turn overland into Sekiro. We just want good RPG experience, like it was in many games before: you develop character -> you fight harder enemies -> you receive more rewards. In ESO overland combat is pointless and rewards are pure RNG depending mostly on the time spent, and not on effort applied.
Easiest solution will be to have several instances of different difficulty and so players just select desired level of challenge/reward and then they are distributed between instances accordingly, during login.

idk

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

You lost me when you started to demand more loot

Why? We get more and better loot in veteran dungeons and trials so why wouldn't the same logic apply to an overworld that is increased in difficulty? I'm only suggesting a response to a problem that ZOS created. Their lack of transparency on the subject isn't helping matters much either.

So if Zos provide better loot in overland that solves the issue?

idk

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

You lost me when you started to demand more loot

Easiest solution will be to have several instances of different difficulty and so players just select desired level of challenge/reward and then they are distributed between instances accordingly, during login.

This is a much more costly solution as it requires virtual server for each difficulty lvl and as such is probably less likely to every happen. It also restricts grouping with friends whereas a toggle permits anyone to group with anyone. Simpler on the player side.

Danikat

I'd like to be able to disable champion points at will.

I already do play without champion points on most of my characters for exactly this reason - overland is what I spend most of my time doing and with CP it's easier than I want it to be. But that means any time I want to do anything where CP is required or expected (even in normal dungeons I've had people complain if I'm not using CP) I have to allocate them all, then pay 3k to disable them again when I'm done. Honestly the time it takes to allocate them is the biggest issue, and can make me decide I just won't bother with that content.

It would be really nice to be able to turn them on or off as needed instead. No extra rewards or XP or whatever needed, just like most single-player games don't normally give you more rewards for playing the higher difficulties (maybe an extra achievement, but you don't get increased loot from everything).

FierceSam

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

You lost me when you started to demand more loot

Why? We get more and better loot in veteran dungeons and trials so why wouldn't the same logic apply to an overworld that is increased in difficulty? I'm only suggesting a response to a problem that ZOS created. Their lack of transparency on the subject isn't helping matters much either.

Hey dude,

I have some sympathy for the ‘I want the overland difficulty increased because I find it too easy and that ruins the whole experience’ argument. I don’t think it will happen because ultimately there isn’t the demand to justify its additional expense.

But the moment you go, ‘oh and I’d like some gold jewellery as well as a reward’ you’ve lost me. Better rewards are there to encourage people to do the content they otherwise would not, so you’re essentially saying that there really isn’t the demand for this and the only way to artificially create this demand is to offer extra rewards.

Either you believe that the demand for harder overland content is out there (and I doubt it is), or you don’t and it needs to be incentivised.

Either way, if you want harder content, it’s out there. It’s just that overland content isn’t the place for it.

I don’t think ZOS see overland difficulty as an issue and they are being pretty open about this, they want overland content to be accessible to all.

They would rather have experienced players feeling it’s very easy than new players leaving the game because they felt it was a bit too difficult.

Haenk

Hallothiel wrote: »

As I posted in a similar thread, and which someone has mentioned on above, this would mean separating out the players - in an mmo.

I think there is a quite simple solution to this - a "power factor slider", maybe from 0.1x to 1.0x. Do the normal battle calculation, eventually multiplied by the power factor, for your character only.

With this solution, you can downscale yourself to any level you like, while "the world" (i.e. other players and monsters) keep their strength.

Since you are very likely max'ed already, no scaling (up or down) to experience gained.

MartiniDaniels

idk wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

You lost me when you started to demand more loot

Easiest solution will be to have several instances of different difficulty and so players just select desired level of challenge/reward and then they are distributed between instances accordingly, during login.

This is a much more costly solution as it requires virtual server for each difficulty lvl and as such is probably less likely to every happen. It also restricts grouping with friends whereas a toggle permits anyone to group with anyone. Simpler on the player side.

You understand that we have several instances of same zone even now? About grouping up etc, yes I doubt ZOS will do anything if they can't sell it... so I just give up on overland long ago, only now I gave it another try on necro without CP, gear, food etc, completed 3 quests in a week and it was.. boring and pointless, like some department of hell where you wanna sleep but forced to force yourself to be awake.

MikaHR

Haenk wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

As I posted in a similar thread, and which someone has mentioned on above, this would mean separating out the players - in an mmo.

I think there is a quite simple solution to this - a "power factor slider", maybe from 0.1x to 1.0x. Do the normal battle calculation, eventually multiplied by the power factor, for your character only.

With this solution, you can downscale yourself to any level you like, while "the world" (i.e. other players and monsters) keep their strength.

Since you are very likely max'ed already, no scaling (up or down) to experience gained.

You can alrady do that on your own by not using CPs/using only white lower level gear.

"Difficulty" is already pretty much completely under your control....IF you want challenge and difficulty (sans first 15-20 levels where you get buffed by the game)

srfrogg23

OMG Zos, please just implement some sort of optional debuff mode so all these tryhards can use it once and then never touch it again. At least then maybe they will quit whining on the forums in an attempt to impress the rest of us with their uber l337 ESO sk1llz...

Hallothiel

srfrogg23 wrote: »

OMG Zos, please just implement some sort of optional debuff mode so all these tryhards can use it once and then never touch it again. At least then maybe they will quit whining on the forums in an attempt to impress the rest of us with their uber l337 ESO sk1llz...

Oh love your post!! 😘

AlexanderDeLarge

srfrogg23 wrote: »

OMG Zos, please just implement some sort of optional debuff mode so all these tryhards can use it once and then never touch it again. At least then maybe they will quit whining on the forums in an attempt to impress the rest of us with their uber l337 ESO sk1llz...

You know, after a week of playing with ESOLogs it doesn't surprise me that someone as active as you on the forums would be so dismissive considering I see 810s parsing below what I did at CP300. Maybe you aren't to the point where you sneeze on a boss and it dies but I am and it sucks.

Noisivid

Just give me a toggle so I can downscale my characters to cp160 when questing and revert when running dungeons or whatever. (or even level 50 w/no CP).
If ZOS can upscale characters to cp160, they should be able to downscale.

I do not want any extra loot, or better loot.

MikaHR

Heres another idea:

You start the game without CP/newbie buffs and 100% better loot....BUT with PERMA death and when character dies all loot is deleted along with him.

There you go.

AndyMac

Tbh, I really don't want to go to the trouble of unapplying (and then needing to reapply) 810 CP just to at least have to fight in Elsweyr.

And I don't think that would achieve much additional fun anyway - with or without armour.

I've been doing Elsweyr on my new stam necro - he's at level 18 with no CP applied. The game is clearly set at easy mode - it's far easier than it was in beta. It's just the truth.

Going through on my main is just boring. I'd really like a veteran overland mode toggle of some kind - but I'm not confident it will happen.

tommalmm

Recently I've started playing Elsweyr. Created a new necro, didn't allocate any CPs, used only what I was able to get through rewards and loot (so the highest set item count I've had was 2 - only because I've got a set staff). At first it was interesting. Without a potent self heal that's available right away, I would have probably struggled a bit when ganged by a 5+ enemies at some locations.

Ultimately, around level 20 or so I just allocated all my CPs and crafted myself a proper gear. I just realized it still wasn't any challenge. It was just a chore. With like 7k DPS and no sustain at all (basically the only option was to heavy attack weave every cast) some of the fights in a public dungeon were taking forever (especially the one where the boss heals when you're not careful enough).

Still, I was able to finish the chapter's main story with random gear, no CP and not even leaving the zone (so I wasn't even able to pick all passives because I had not enough skill points from skyshards). For me it was just a chore, but I can imagine a new player having some troubles here and there.

TBH. I still remember, when I started playing the game and would die on story bosses because I thought that the only way to heal on my NB were potions and draining shot from bow skill line ; ).

Kawall

Borderlands 2 have badass rank (similar to cp) and you can enable/disable with a single click. Maybe ZOS can add a similar system.

MartiniDaniels

Another solution might be a new food which decreases HP and gives ton of sustain. If you'll have 5k HP you may actually die occasionally and pay off for this will be huge regen so you may spam exploration skills like streak/cloak/rapids without special gear.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

For the 500th time, take off your armor. It costs nothing.