[Discussion] Can we as a community stop dismissing others' perspectives?

Elusiin

As the title says. I see a lot of people saying things like what a stupid thread, stop crying, stop whining, and etc. These chapter updates being a lot of changes, people need time to adjust and process (even if that is in the form of a rant on the forums), and honestly the development team is looking for feedback from the playerbase. These types of threads and discussions are healthy. You may not agree with someone's perspective, but you could at least respect their right to have an opinion. But maybe I'm wrong, what do you guys think?

homura

I agree with you completely. People have a right to say there opinions and if people don't like what they read then they don't have to read it. Kinda the point of the forums. I mean it says GENERAL discussion meaning for whatever topic for whatever reason lol.

geonsocal

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

You may not agree with someone's perspective, but you could at least respect their right to have an opinion. But maybe I'm wrong, what do you guys think?

I do agree - you are wrong

Chadak

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

As the title says. I see a lot of people saying things like what a stupid thread, stop crying, stop whining, and etc. These chapter updates being a lot of changes, people need time to adjust and process (even if that is in the form of a rant on the forums), and honestly the development team is looking for feedback from the playerbase. These types of threads and discussions are healthy. You may not agree with someone's perspective, but you could at least respect their right to have an opinion. But maybe I'm wrong, what do you guys think?

Opinions are not of equal value. Some are ridiculous, foolish and make everyone that much dumber for having been exposed to them. Failure to ridicule the ridiculous encourages the ridiculous and gives ridiculous people the tragically mistaken impression that their ridiculous opinions are worth as much as everyone else's no matter what.

A well thought out opinion expressed intelligently deserves credit for at least the effort involved. An emotionally vomitous or otherwise unhinged rant is not deserving of much attention or respect.

TL;DR : stupid people say stupid things and they don't deserve respect for talking.

MassPandemic

Although this community is pretty friendly i've noticed any kind of feedback positive or negative if it doesn't align with others opinions they get bashed in chat or here. Like i have said i would love for the open world to be challenging again and it isn't right now, even in the newest zone (elsweyr). I love eso and i think what they offer in value for money compared to the competition in their expansions/chapters is lacking. If you look at guild wars 2/ wow/ and ffxiv for the same price as a chapter you get multiple zones,dungeons, a class and more with eso we get one zone and maybe a class. I know the zones have more than just quests , but when compared to other mmos i feel it's behind them in this regard. I want eso to succeed more than it is currently and it seems to be doing great off of the failures of wow's current expansion as i see a lot of wow players coming to check out the game. I just hope they can figure out a way to stay competitive and offer value for money their competitors seem to do much better.

technohic

Thats a terrible idea....

Hyperion616

geonsocal wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

You may not agree with someone's perspective, but you could at least respect their right to have an opinion. But maybe I'm wrong, what do you guys think?

I do agree - you are wrong

My thoughts exactly, people can have opinions and I get to have an opinion on weather I agree with them or not.

max_only

What does this have to do with ESO? Looks like a discussion about discussions which usually leads to nowhere or a forum ban.

Imza

everyone has a right to an opinion

unfortunately

everyone believes their opinion is the only one that should be expressed.

EDIT: spelling

twev

Imza wrote: »

everyone has a right to an opinion

unfortunately

everyone believes their opinion is the only one that should be expressed.

EDIT: spelling

Not everyone believes that, which is the purpose of the discussion.

Imza

twev wrote: »

Imza wrote: »

everyone has a right to an opinion

unfortunately

everyone believes their opinion is the only one that should be expressed.

EDIT: spelling

Not everyone believes that, which is the purpose of the discussion.

sorry - like most people - I tend to generalise, with a little exaggeration thrown in....



Not everyone - but most.... especially here on these forums

Riejael

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

You may not agree with someone's perspective, but you could at least respect their right to have an opinion. But maybe I'm wrong, what do you guys think?

This used to be the mentality of our culture in 1999, but in 2019 it is not. Our world is heavily polarized in culture, social structure, politics, and relations.

The norm of respectful discussion is over. Its now about how much charisma you can project and attention you can garner to see who is 'right'. That is the defining measure for this decade and its emerging generation. Hence the new norm.

Elusiin

Everyone has a right to share their opinion, freedom of speech. Yes some are not well thought out, many are rants, but still they have the right to share their opinion. To say there opinion is less true than your own is relative to your perspective (in other words they may not see it that way). So the best course of action is not to insult them, or suggest they are stupid, the best course of action is to try to understand why they feel the way they do, and share your own view of the topic. If neither of you can agree, just agree to disagree. Please stop devolving into throwing toxic insults at one another, no one benefits from that.

twev

Not everyone believes that, which is the purpose of the discussion.

[/quote]

sorry - like most people - I tend to generalise, with a little exaggeration thrown in....



Not everyone - but most.... especially here on these forums[/quote]

It's an easy trap, I fall into it my self more often than I want to admit.
Not every opinion is worth 'having', but people are allowed to have them anyway.
The problems 'tends to' stem from people thinking that opinions based on feels are just as valid as opinions based on facts.

Thats my opinion, anyway.

Elusiin

Riejael wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

You may not agree with someone's perspective, but you could at least respect their right to have an opinion. But maybe I'm wrong, what do you guys think?

This used to be the mentality of our culture in 1999, but in 2019 it is not. Our world is heavily polarized in culture, social structure, politics, and relations.

The norm of respectful discussion is over. Its now about how much charisma you can project and attention you can garner to see who is 'right'. That is the defining measure for this decade and its emerging generation. Hence the new norm.

I have noticed this, especially during the build up to the 2016 election. Cynicism tells me to accept this as the new norm and that nothing will change. However, if we fight off the cynicism and try to understand where the other side is coming from, I truly believe we can be friendly towards one another... Or at the very least be civil to one another over an online game, that we all share interest in.

Elusiin

twev wrote: »

Not everyone believes that, which is the purpose of the discussion.

sorry - like most people - I tend to generalise, with a little exaggeration thrown in....



Not everyone - but most.... especially here on these forums[/quote]

It's an easy trap, I fall into it my self more often than I want to admit.
Not every opinion is worth 'having', but people are allowed to have them anyway.
The problems 'tends to' stem from people thinking that opinions based on feels are just as valid as opinions based on facts.

Thats my opinion, anyway.
[/quote]

Well the part separating fact and opinion is a fact (haha that one hurt my brain). When it comes to changes to this game, it's mostly a matter of opinion, such as whether or not the criminal acts system should stay, go, or be expanded on. As for balance changes such as changing damage outputs (statistics), or whether or not a mechanic has counter play, that would be talking facts I believe.

Runefang

Welcome to life as a human being. Please get as comfortable as you can, it'll be a bumpy ride.

Path

Opinions in a game tend to align with play style

Thankfully, ESO supports more than one play style.

Don't like an opinion? If it pertains to the way you play, reply. Debate. If not, leave it.

Androconium

homura wrote: »

I agree with you completely. People have a right to say there opinions and if people don't like what they read then they don't have to read it. Kinda the point of the forums. I mean it says GENERAL discussion meaning for whatever topic for whatever reason lol.

It actually says "general ESO discussion". Whatever topic that is ESO-related. Not whatever topic, for whatever reason.

Riejael wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

You may not agree with someone's perspective, but you could at least respect their right to have an opinion. But maybe I'm wrong, what do you guys think?

This used to be the mentality of our culture in 1999, but in 2019 it is not. Our world is heavily polarized in culture, social structure, politics, and relations.

The norm of respectful discussion is over. Its now about how much charisma you can project and attention you can garner to see who is 'right'. That is the defining measure for this decade and its emerging generation. Hence the new norm.

Perhaps you meant 'country' and not 'world'?
The norm is whatever people accept. The challenge here is to accept something else.

Benzux

People are absolutely allowed to have opinions, and are free to express them. However, this means that we are also allowed to have our opinions concerning the opinions of others. And, as has already been pointed out by Chadak, not all opinions are of equal value.
Saying this, I do respect your opinion on the matter. But, that doesn't always mean that I think an opinion is valid, or that it isn't idiotic in any way.

KillsAllElves

Get rid of one shot mechanics,

Buff transmute crystal drops

Buff overland zone difficulty

Developers should learn to differentiate between pve and pvp nerfs and buffs ie, shield nerf which made 0 sense

Nerf resistances for pvp builds and put a health cap on dps builds in cyrodiil


Design better armors/motifs and robes that are robes not a dress
problem solved

wishlist14

There is constructive criticism = Giving Zos devs constructive feedback and suggestions on improving specific areas of the game that you deem as needing attention.

Then there are nasty, whiny, cruel and disrespectful criticisms aimed at Zos which to be honest I cannot tolerate personally.

I am never rude to anyone on the forums but when people constantly make nasty digs at Zos devs I inject the thread or post with my positive version of how I feel about eso. But I never tell anyone they can't vent but nasty comments are unjustified.

Linaleah

I respect your right to have an opinion. and i do hope you respect MY right to present why your opinion is based on false narrative and is such - faulty in itself. note that i'm specifically referring to your opinion. not you as a person, specific opinion/argument/statement you may be trying to make

Sy1ph5

Saying everyone is entitled to an opinion is a weak way to avoid challenging your own worldview.

Just cause you can hold an opinion doesnt mean you should hold that opinion. Opinions that can't hold up to a challenge you shouldn't hold. It's better to admit that you don't know enough to have an opinion than to run your idiot.

Your opinions are not entitled to respect.

Oliwaltony

Benzux wrote: »

People are absolutely allowed to have opinions, and are free to express them. However, this means that we are also allowed to have our opinions concerning the opinions of others. And, as has already been pointed out by Chadak, not all opinions are of equal value.
Saying this, I do respect your opinion on the matter. But, that doesn't always mean that I think an opinion is valid, or that it isn't idiotic in any way.

There is a better way to say it than to go ahead and insult the other I guess? Its all about the way you say it. Constructive criticism is entirely different from straight up free bashing. Alot of people on that forum seems to like to bash on people hidden and protected behind their keyboard insulting people and laughing at everyone that are new/have a different opinion that might be caused by innexperience. Humans are of a simple nature and tend to try to raise themselves above all the other by diminishing their value in other people eyes by insulting/humiliating them. Those person are honnestly a scourge of the society and makes me deeply sad cause I'm an expecting dad and I'll have to explain to my son that people are cruels, means and only work for themselves. What a nice world we are creating for the future generations..

Vandril

"I'm entitled to my opinion" is often a sort of logical fallacy. While there may be times you can claim this without it being a logical fallacy, this is very rarely the case, especially on the internet.

“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” - Harlan Ellison

I love the above quote. Even if it's not entirely correct - people are entitled to be ignorant if they so wish - it does emphasize that any opinion on facts can turn out to be factually wrong (and thus no longer an opinion, but a falsehood). Just because it was meant as an opinion does not preclude it from being incorrect.

Chadak may have come across as harsh depending on the tone you read his above post in, but what he said was very much correct. People all too often confuse the right to hold an opinion as the right to have their opinion respected.

Reality check: you can have whatever opinion you want, but no one is under any obligation to respect it in the least.

That said, people really aught to respect reasonable opinions. All too often, disagreements of opinion turn into slobbering at each other in rage as opposed to, I dunno, rational discourse. Again, especially on the internet.

Androconium

Sy1ph5 wrote: »

Saying everyone is entitled to an opinion is a weak way to avoid challenging your own worldview.

Just cause you can hold an opinion doesnt mean you should hold that opinion. Opinions that can't hold up to a challenge you shouldn't hold. It's better to admit that you don't know enough to have an opinion than to run your idiot.

Your opinions are not entitled to respect.

wut?

Sy1ph5

Androconium wrote: »

Sy1ph5 wrote: »

Saying everyone is entitled to an opinion is a weak way to avoid challenging your own worldview.

Just cause you can hold an opinion doesnt mean you should hold that opinion. Opinions that can't hold up to a challenge you shouldn't hold. It's better to admit that you don't know enough to have an opinion than to run your idiot.

Your opinions are not entitled to respect.

wut?

Listen part of my RP is to *** around on the forums let me have this.

It was a really dumb way to write what has already been written.

Androconium

Vandril wrote: »

"I'm entitled to my opinion" is often a sort of logical fallacy. While there may be times you can claim this without it being a logical fallacy, this is very rarely the case, especially on the internet.

“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” - Harlan Ellison

I love the above quote. Even if it's not entirely correct - people are entitled to be ignorant if they so wish - it does emphasize that any opinion on facts can be factually wrong. Just because it is an opinion does not preclude it from being incorrect.

Chadak may have come across as harsh depending on the tone you read his above post in, but what he said was very much correct. People all too often confuse the right to hold an opinion as the right to have their opinion respected.

Reality check: you can have whatever opinion you want, but no one is under any obligation to respect it in the least.

That said, people really aught to respect reasonable opinions. All too often, disagreements of opinion turn into slobbering at each other in rage as opposed to, I dunno, rational discourse. Again, especially on the internet.

You may not agree with someone's perspective, but you could at least respect their right to have an opinion.

..is what the OP said. It is slightly different from the general interpretation going on here. Slightly...

The intent, if I understood correctly was to ask people to consider 'someone else's perspective' and not set fire to it and *** on it from a great height (metaphorically speaking). The supposed 'right to freedom of speech' is based on the principle that people do have a perspective and have equal right to express it.

I don't fully understand when that stated perspective crosses some boundary and becomes 'an opinion'.

With that in mind, the OP's request was that when these perspectives are expressed, if you can add something to it, positive or negative; you could at least try to do it with some respect towards the person expressing their perspective.

Especially when it takes place in this sort of arena, which is specifically designed for that purpose.

Grandesdar

I agree as long as they aren't whining, crying over trifles like necromancy being a crime! L2p guys, not that hard. Much immersion that way.

Nyladreas

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

As the title says. I see a lot of people saying things like what a stupid thread, stop crying, stop whining, and etc. These chapter updates being a lot of changes, people need time to adjust and process (even if that is in the form of a rant on the forums), and honestly the development team is looking for feedback from the playerbase. These types of threads and discussions are healthy. You may not agree with someone's perspective, but you could at least respect their right to have an opinion. But maybe I'm wrong, what do you guys think?

No, we can't. Why? Idk. Welcome to 2019. Where noone gives a rat's a** about what you think. Respect my Narcissism or go die. Oh, humanity.

I'm ofc not being personal here. It's how I see people around me.