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Sugar cane (that looks like bamboo) in Elsweyr looks horrible HORRIBLE
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arena25✭✭✭✭✭At this point, i'm not 100% sure if this thread serves any constructive purpose for ESO...and I'm not 100% sure, but this thread might fall under the trolling/baiting category...
Regardless, this thread probably should've stayed buried...If you can't handle the heat...stay out of the kitchen!1 -
jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭Your ENTIRE argument goes out the window the moment you compared moon sugar (fictional) to cane sugar(actual) plants. In a game where most the plants look different then real life or dont even exist you cant compaire.IGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer2 -
Inaya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Was just out here last night and it does not look exactly like sugar cane but then again it isn't, it's moon sugar and maybe that's exactly what moon sugar looks like lol
I prefer to enjoy the beautiful music and sites rather than get hung up on the small things3 -
BretonMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭I get the argument that moon sugar isn't sugar cane, but when they make it look decidedly like IRL bamboo, then that argument feels less convincing.
I think the issue is that it looks close enough to something we are familiar with, but then not the thing we expect, so it feels like a strange disconnect.
It's not important to me, but it does feel a bit unpolished.1 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭At this point, i'm not 100% sure if this thread serves any constructive purpose for ESO...and I'm not 100% sure, but this thread might fall under the trolling/baiting category...
Regardless, this thread probably should've stayed buried...
the criticism is that due to laziness the way the sugar cane is placed it stands out in a very negative way in contrast to the otherwise beuatiful environment - like a relict from long past games....i think that is a fair criticism as the difference is really noticeable and others seem to agree.
You might not and i mentionned it might be looked at as petty but this is the first time in the game that something visual really bothered me because i think it stands out very negativly...thats all4 -
Kali_Despoine✭✭✭✭Triggered means you had a traumatic experience and its causing flashbacks. It's actually a very serious thing.
No "triggered"was made up to help promote victomhood amongst far-leftists fascists/
Shell Shock or PTSD are the terms for your definition.
BTW the bamboo thing looks like trash
Now "triggered" is used as a meme amongst those w/ an IQ greater then Africas avarage
2 -
Androconium✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kali_Despoine wrote: »Triggered means you had a traumatic experience and its causing flashbacks. It's actually a very serious thing.
No "triggered"was made up to help promote victomhood amongst far-leftists fascists/
Shell Shock or PTSD are the terms for your definition.
BTW the bamboo thing looks like trash
Now "triggered" is used as a meme amongst those w/ an IQ greater then Africas avarage
Victim. Fascists are far-right.victomhood amongst far-leftists fascists/
with. IQ is a flawed measure of intellect. Africa's average.w/ an IQ greater then Africas avarage
I thought that it should look like Kresh weed. So, close...bamboo thing looks like trash
(less triggered now)0 -
Kali_Despoine✭✭✭✭
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economyAndroconium wrote: »Fascists are far-right.
Not to derail this thread but
There is only one group of people that are doing this and it's the far left.
Doxxing, banning and jailing people forcibly suppressing opinions is what the left are doing on social media and in state federal/country and local laws.
The left also wants to control how money is divided, who gets a job/education and give free gibs to those who they deem victims of society.
So now who do you think is the dictator behind all this?
I know this violates ToS and a lefty mod will delete this to hide the truth
now back to topic
as for the moonsugar it looks like a wall not a row/group of plants.
Just don't say organic to me and I know they can do better
2 -
BomblePants✭✭✭✭✭
✭It looks ok to me from the pics (I’m a console pleb).... but it is triggering my trypophobia... ugh
0 -
r34lian✭✭✭✭✭
✭2000 CP • 18 Maxed Characters • 6 Altmers • 7 Redguards • Necromancer Orc • Warden Dunmer • DK Nord • DK Imperial • Templar Breton0 -
Androconium✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kali_Despoine wrote: »
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economyAndroconium wrote: »Fascists are far-right.
Not to derail this thread but
There is only one group of people that are doing this and it's the far left.
Doxxing, banning and jailing people forcibly suppressing opinions is what the left are doing on social media and in state federal/country and local laws.
The left also wants to control how money is divided, who gets a job/education and give free gibs to those who they deem victims of society.
So now who do you think is the dictator behind all this?
I know this violates ToS and a lefty mod will delete this to hide the truth
now back to topic
as for the moonsugar it looks like a wall not a row/group of plants.
Just don't say organic to me and I know they can do better
Lol.
A lefty mod here a ZOS? Un-bloody-likely.
You need to move to Organic moonsugar, it has more polygons.0 -
Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"Triggered SO HARD?"
Dude, what in the blue blazes? You're comparing it to frikkin' Minecraft?
What are your graphics settings?
Cut back on the caffeine, or something.
It looks totally fine. Have you never seen sugarcane in the real world?
Eeep is that place accessible. I never seen that, but it looks like something done in an area people can't get to but only see from a distance.0 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »At this point, i'm not 100% sure if this thread serves any constructive purpose for ESO...and I'm not 100% sure, but this thread might fall under the trolling/baiting category...
Regardless, this thread probably should've stayed buried...
the criticism is that due to laziness the way the sugar cane is placed it stands out in a very negative way in contrast to the otherwise beuatiful environment - like a relict from long past games....i think that is a fair criticism as the difference is really noticeable and others seem to agree.
You might not and i mentionned it might be looked at as petty but this is the first time in the game that something visual really bothered me because i think it stands out very negativly...thats all
I was wondering what this thread was about the last couple of days. And then I got to the farm last night. It really is that awful and jarring
Especially since the cane around the Prowl isn't like this, and the rest of the zone is jaw-droppingly beautiful. 2 -
Kalik_Gold✭✭✭✭✭
✭Looks similar to sugar cane, but more like bamboo.
.Edited by Kalik_Gold on May 26, 2019 10:40PMMain: (PvP & PvE)PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion
Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige
PvP:
Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer
PvP: (Specialty)
Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade
Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden
PvE:
Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight
Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight
Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar
Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden
Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade
Leveling...
Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer
======
Passives of another race used. (RP)
*Breton
**Imperial
__________________________Backstories:_________________________
Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.
Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.
Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...
Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.
Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.
The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.
The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.
Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.
Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)
And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.
After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.
After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...
Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.
Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.
{time moves forward through the hour-glass}0 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Red_Feather wrote: »"Triggered SO HARD?"
Dude, what in the blue blazes? You're comparing it to frikkin' Minecraft?
What are your graphics settings?
Cut back on the caffeine, or something.
It looks totally fine. Have you never seen sugarcane in the real world?
Eeep is that place accessible. I never seen that, but it looks like something done in an area people can't get to but only see from a distance.
It is. You can walk right through the middle of the blocks. Do Rigurt's quest-- it'll take you right there.0 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The weed fields
Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yes, looks more natural.Dragonnord wrote: »How they are attached to the ground it's way too straight in line (doesn't look natural - like a paper cut with scissors), and the resolution of each bamboo is low, yes.
This is how they look in real life:
However this one does not know, for her sugar comes in paper bags, still work well enough.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In looking at the screenshots again, I wonder if this is a bug. Those blocks of moonsugar look like the stack you can see in the wagon at the Prowl area. Did the coders use the wrong asset? Wondering if I should report this...1 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭lol comparing those screenshots is hilarious XD it really is a BLOCK of sugarcane
0 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm wrong. The plantation is the huge area outside Rimmen, not the Prowl. I'm sure it's a bug-- and I filed a ticket.
Wagon outside Rimmen:
Proper sugarcane field outside Rimmen:
Merryvale, land of blocks is above in all the screenshots. It's worse in person. Trust me.
0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jainiadral wrote: »Proper sugarcane field outside Rimmen:
Merryvale, land of blocks is above in all the screenshots. It's worse in person. Trust me.
Yeah, I was just looking at this plantation tonight, It's so much better than those 16 bit blocks of plants.
It's kind of like those elementary school assignments where they put an item up in front of the class, and tell everyone to draw it. It's as if they told 4 or 5 graphic artists, "Ok, here's your section of Elsweyr, we need you to create this, this, that, this, and some moonsugar cane plants. Hand in your section of the zone and we'll put them all together and send it to the test server!"
0 -
bearbelly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Red_Feather wrote: »"Triggered SO HARD?"
Dude, what in the blue blazes? You're comparing it to frikkin' Minecraft?
What are your graphics settings?
Cut back on the caffeine, or something.
It looks totally fine. Have you never seen sugarcane in the real world?
Eeep is that place accessible. I never seen that, but it looks like something done in an area people can't get to but only see from a distance.
@Red_Feather
Yup.
It's a farm in southern Elsweyr.
0 -
CaptainVenom✭✭✭✭✭
✭I live in a (mostly) agricultural place in Brazil's south region where most farms cultivate sugar cane. I think the fictional sugar cane looks fine. Maybe it could have been a little greener, like this:
However, since Nirn is a fantasy world, Tamriel's sugar cane may differ from real world one?Edited by CaptainVenom on May 27, 2019 11:23AM🌈 Ride with Pride🌈
Magicka/Damage Sorcerer - PC - NA - DC0 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭[Nocturnals internally]Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor
PC-EU CP 3000+
41,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Pact Veteran Trade: Exemplary
Traders of the Covenant: God of Sales
Tamriels Emporium: God of Sales
Valinor Overflow: Trader
The Traveling Merchant: Silver
Characters:
Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 20 |
Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 20 |
Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 20 |
Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |
Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 4 |
Scheei-Jul | 50 Necromancer | EP AR 4 |
PC-NA CP 1800+
30,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Savage Blade: Majestic Machette
Characters:
Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |0 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Your ENTIRE argument goes out the window the moment you compared moon sugar (fictional) to cane sugar(actual) plants. In a game where most the plants look different then real life or dont even exist you cant compaire.
the low quality textures are important! IT'S IN THE LORE!!!!!skingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
0
detai 
