Not all food and drink has made it to statistical parity yet

FrancisCrawford

If the goal was to bring the scale-with-you special foods/drinks into statistical parity with the level-gated ones, Spring-Loaded Infusion was overlooked. Its stats on the PTS are still lower than those of max-level purple food.

SirAndy

Parity should not be the goal. In fact, anything but statistical parity should be the goal.

Otherwise we're going back to the Quake Arena days. And while that was fun, it's not what a role playing MMO should be about.

Insco851

Because there’s only 2 sets you would actually look to run it with. You might as well look at SLI like a regen drink as well because both Bone Pirate and Bright throat give an additional 150 regen respectively with a drink active.

So in reality it’s tri stat+150 recov. Mathematically it’s actually stronger than other regen drinks not needing to be ran with certain sets.

Minno

"parity" sounds like a noise thread to me lol.

Compare the stats of spring loaded to the stats of tri-food and you'll have your answer

Finneholt

Statistical parity=perfect game where everyone’s equal. Yikes!

TheYKcid

Why is everyone on OP's ass about this? Whether or not you agree with the push for parity, the fact remains that the v5.0.1 notes state:

• Foods and drinks that scale based on your level have had their values increased to put them on par with other consumed foods.

...which makes intent pretty clear. If SLI isn't giving the same bonus on a cp160 toon as, say, Longfin Pasty, then it's an oversight and should be rectified.

Insco851 wrote: »

Because there’s only 2 sets you would actually look to run it with. You might as well look at SLI like a regen drink as well because both Bone Pirate and Bright throat give an additional 150 regen respectively with a drink active.

So in reality it’s tri stat+150 recov. Mathematically it’s actually stronger than other regen drinks not needing to be ran with certain sets.

Claiming that a particular set bonus should be conflated with a consumable for balancing purposes is just fundamentally stupid. You do realise that the set in question would thus be one bonus short, and the setup as a whole would be at a stat deficit bringing you right back to square one, right?

Insco851

TheYKcid wrote: »

Why is everyone on OP's ass about this? Whether or not you agree with the push for parity, the fact remains that the v5.0.1 notes state:

• Foods and drinks that scale based on your level have had their values increased to put them on par with other consumed foods.

...which makes intent pretty clear. If SLI isn't giving the same bonus on a cp160 toon as, say, Longfin Pasty, then it's an oversight and should be rectified.

Insco851 wrote: »

Because there’s only 2 sets you would actually look to run it with. You might as well look at SLI like a regen drink as well because both Bone Pirate and Bright throat give an additional 150 regen respectively with a drink active.

So in reality it’s tri stat+150 recov. Mathematically it’s actually stronger than other regen drinks not needing to be ran with certain sets.

Claiming that a particular set bonus should be conflated with a consumable for balancing purposes is just fundamentally stupid. You do realise that the set in question would thus be one bonus short, and the setup as a whole would be at a stat deficit bringing you right back to square one, right?

Bone pirate and Bright throat have the equivalent of 6 line items of any given set.
Not all sets are as stat dense as one another. So “one short” is an oversight on your end. And if you want to argue that- 4K resources and 129 regen is a solid set by nearly any comparison for a max stat toon. Then add In another 150 regen on top...

Same reason regen drinks didn’t have the same max stats as other bi stat foods- the regen was taken into account to balance them.

In no build outside those two sets are you looking to run this tri drink so said regen is again taken into account.

idk

SirAndy wrote: »

Parity should not be the goal. In fact, anything but statistical parity should be the goal.

Otherwise we're going back to the Quake Arena days. And while that was fun, it's not what a role playing MMO should be about.

Pretty much this.

Just because Zos made some changes to some provisioning does not mean they were attempting to bring anything into statistical parity. There is nothing to suggest that was their goal.

TheYKcid

Insco851 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Why is everyone on OP's ass about this? Whether or not you agree with the push for parity, the fact remains that the v5.0.1 notes state:

• Foods and drinks that scale based on your level have had their values increased to put them on par with other consumed foods.

...which makes intent pretty clear. If SLI isn't giving the same bonus on a cp160 toon as, say, Longfin Pasty, then it's an oversight and should be rectified.

Insco851 wrote: »

Because there’s only 2 sets you would actually look to run it with. You might as well look at SLI like a regen drink as well because both Bone Pirate and Bright throat give an additional 150 regen respectively with a drink active.

So in reality it’s tri stat+150 recov. Mathematically it’s actually stronger than other regen drinks not needing to be ran with certain sets.

Claiming that a particular set bonus should be conflated with a consumable for balancing purposes is just fundamentally stupid. You do realise that the set in question would thus be one bonus short, and the setup as a whole would be at a stat deficit bringing you right back to square one, right?

Bone pirate and Bright throat have the equivalent of 6 line items of any given set.

Your first pretense is already wrong.

Shacklebreaker 5th piece bonus: 2000 stam & 2000 mag
The 2000 stam is equivalent to what 5th pc Bone Pirate gives, so let's compare 2000 mag to 150 regen.
We know the ratio based on 1pc bonuses is 1096:129
therefore 2000 mag = (2000/1096)*129 = 235 regen

So the 5th pc of Shacklebreaker is numerically more stat-dense than Bone Pirate, and it isn't even a conditional set!

But, you say, Shackle is intentionally overloaded as part of hybrid stat designs. So let's compare the 5th pc bonus of a strictly stamina conditional set, Automaton:

400 WD = 400*(1096/129) = 3398 max resources
= 2000 max resource + (1398/1096)*129 regen
= 2000 max resource + 164 regen

Conclusion: Automaton is also more stat-dense than Bone Pirate

So no, the bonuses of BP & Bright-throat most definitely are not overloaded like you claim. Even accepting your argument that foods should be balanced in the context of sets they are used in conjunction with (which is tenuous), there is still no justification for SLI to be at a deficit, since neither BP nor Bright-throat are at a surplus.

Iskiab

Insco851 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Why is everyone on OP's ass about this? Whether or not you agree with the push for parity, the fact remains that the v5.0.1 notes state:

• Foods and drinks that scale based on your level have had their values increased to put them on par with other consumed foods.

...which makes intent pretty clear. If SLI isn't giving the same bonus on a cp160 toon as, say, Longfin Pasty, then it's an oversight and should be rectified.

Insco851 wrote: »

Because there’s only 2 sets you would actually look to run it with. You might as well look at SLI like a regen drink as well because both Bone Pirate and Bright throat give an additional 150 regen respectively with a drink active.

So in reality it’s tri stat+150 recov. Mathematically it’s actually stronger than other regen drinks not needing to be ran with certain sets.

Claiming that a particular set bonus should be conflated with a consumable for balancing purposes is just fundamentally stupid. You do realise that the set in question would thus be one bonus short, and the setup as a whole would be at a stat deficit bringing you right back to square one, right?

Bone pirate and Bright throat have the equivalent of 6 line items of any given set.
Not all sets are as stat dense as one another. So “one short” is an oversight on your end. And if you want to argue that- 4K resources and 129 regen is a solid set by nearly any comparison for a max stat toon. Then add In another 150 regen on top...

Same reason regen drinks didn’t have the same max stats as other bi stat foods- the regen was taken into account to balance them.

In no build outside those two sets are you looking to run this tri drink so said regen is again taken into account.

So you think they’re going out of their way to nerf bright throat and bone pirate? That would be silly.

More likely an oversight.

Insco851

TheYKcid wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Why is everyone on OP's ass about this? Whether or not you agree with the push for parity, the fact remains that the v5.0.1 notes state:

• Foods and drinks that scale based on your level have had their values increased to put them on par with other consumed foods.

...which makes intent pretty clear. If SLI isn't giving the same bonus on a cp160 toon as, say, Longfin Pasty, then it's an oversight and should be rectified.

Insco851 wrote: »

Because there’s only 2 sets you would actually look to run it with. You might as well look at SLI like a regen drink as well because both Bone Pirate and Bright throat give an additional 150 regen respectively with a drink active.

So in reality it’s tri stat+150 recov. Mathematically it’s actually stronger than other regen drinks not needing to be ran with certain sets.

Claiming that a particular set bonus should be conflated with a consumable for balancing purposes is just fundamentally stupid. You do realise that the set in question would thus be one bonus short, and the setup as a whole would be at a stat deficit bringing you right back to square one, right?

Bone pirate and Bright throat have the equivalent of 6 line items of any given set.

Your first pretense is already wrong.

Shacklebreaker 5th piece bonus: 2000 stam & 2000 mag
The 2000 stam is equivalent to what 5th pc Bone Pirate gives, so let's compare 2000 mag to 150 regen.
We know the ratio based on 1pc bonuses is 1096:129
therefore 2000 mag = (2000/1096)*129 = 235 regen

So the 5th pc of Shacklebreaker is numerically more stat-dense than Bone Pirate, and it isn't even a conditional set!

But, you say, Shackle is intentionally overloaded as part of hybrid stat designs. So let's compare the 5th pc bonus of a strictly stamina conditional set, Automaton:

400 WD = 400*(1096/129) = 3398 max resources
= 2000 max resource + (1398/1096)*129 regen
= 2000 max resource + 164 regen

Conclusion: Automaton is also more stat-dense than Bone Pirate

So no, the bonuses of BP & Bright-throat most definitely are not overloaded like you claim. Even accepting your argument that foods should be balanced in the context of sets they are used in conjunction with (which is tenuous), there is still no justification for SLI to be at a deficit, since neither BP nor Bright-throat are at a surplus.

Taken from another thread about this:

““Looking at standard set bonuses, we can see that 129 Magicka or Stamina Recovery is equivalent to 1096 Max Magicka/Stamina or 1206 Max Health. By this logic 1 Recovery = 8.5 Resource = 9.4 Health. This can also be confirmed by Mundus Stone balancing, where 238 Mag/Stam Recovery is balanced with 2028 Max Mag/Stam or 2231 Max Health.

Tri-Stat Food like Longfin Pasty with Melon Sauce gives these stats:
- 4252 Max Health
- 3912 Max Magicka
- 3912 Max Stamina

If I calculate the total effectiveness by the same method as my initial post it shows 1376, way higher than other foods. I think this is ok for tri stat though. Most tri stat bonuses in the game follow the “buy 2 get 1 free” rule (such as Prismatic armor glyphs).””

Then we can compare to SLI- a drink with the sole purpose to run with these two sets. Unless you just thirsty....

3724 health/9.4 = 396
3458 Stam/8.5 = 406
3458 mag/8.5 = 406
+150 recovery from my balancing theory
= 1358

Compared to Longfins 1376

Insco851

Iskiab wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Why is everyone on OP's ass about this? Whether or not you agree with the push for parity, the fact remains that the v5.0.1 notes state:

• Foods and drinks that scale based on your level have had their values increased to put them on par with other consumed foods.

...which makes intent pretty clear. If SLI isn't giving the same bonus on a cp160 toon as, say, Longfin Pasty, then it's an oversight and should be rectified.

Insco851 wrote: »

Because there’s only 2 sets you would actually look to run it with. You might as well look at SLI like a regen drink as well because both Bone Pirate and Bright throat give an additional 150 regen respectively with a drink active.

So in reality it’s tri stat+150 recov. Mathematically it’s actually stronger than other regen drinks not needing to be ran with certain sets.

Claiming that a particular set bonus should be conflated with a consumable for balancing purposes is just fundamentally stupid. You do realise that the set in question would thus be one bonus short, and the setup as a whole would be at a stat deficit bringing you right back to square one, right?

Bone pirate and Bright throat have the equivalent of 6 line items of any given set.
Not all sets are as stat dense as one another. So “one short” is an oversight on your end. And if you want to argue that- 4K resources and 129 regen is a solid set by nearly any comparison for a max stat toon. Then add In another 150 regen on top...

Same reason regen drinks didn’t have the same max stats as other bi stat foods- the regen was taken into account to balance them.

In no build outside those two sets are you looking to run this tri drink so said regen is again taken into account.

So you think they’re going out of their way to nerf bright throat and bone pirate? That would be silly.

More likely an oversight.

Indirectly yes. But again there’s NO reason to run the special tri DRINK on anything outside those sets. They are absolutely tied together for balancing purposes imo.

TheYKcid

Your balancing theory makes zero sense.

By that logic Witchmother's & Dubious would be overpowered when used in conjuction with BP/BT, and underpowered when used with any other sets.

Numerical food balance is independent of set choice.

Minno

TheYKcid wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Why is everyone on OP's ass about this? Whether or not you agree with the push for parity, the fact remains that the v5.0.1 notes state:

• Foods and drinks that scale based on your level have had their values increased to put them on par with other consumed foods.

...which makes intent pretty clear. If SLI isn't giving the same bonus on a cp160 toon as, say, Longfin Pasty, then it's an oversight and should be rectified.

Insco851 wrote: »

Because there’s only 2 sets you would actually look to run it with. You might as well look at SLI like a regen drink as well because both Bone Pirate and Bright throat give an additional 150 regen respectively with a drink active.

So in reality it’s tri stat+150 recov. Mathematically it’s actually stronger than other regen drinks not needing to be ran with certain sets.

Claiming that a particular set bonus should be conflated with a consumable for balancing purposes is just fundamentally stupid. You do realise that the set in question would thus be one bonus short, and the setup as a whole would be at a stat deficit bringing you right back to square one, right?

Bone pirate and Bright throat have the equivalent of 6 line items of any given set.

Your first pretense is already wrong.

Shacklebreaker 5th piece bonus: 2000 stam & 2000 mag
The 2000 stam is equivalent to what 5th pc Bone Pirate gives, so let's compare 2000 mag to 150 regen.
We know the ratio based on 1pc bonuses is 1096:129
therefore 2000 mag = (2000/1096)*129 = 235 regen

So the 5th pc of Shacklebreaker is numerically more stat-dense than Bone Pirate, and it isn't even a conditional set!

But, you say, Shackle is intentionally overloaded as part of hybrid stat designs. So let's compare the 5th pc bonus of a strictly stamina conditional set, Automaton:

400 WD = 400*(1096/129) = 3398 max resources
= 2000 max resource + (1398/1096)*129 regen
= 2000 max resource + 164 regen

Conclusion: Automaton is also more stat-dense than Bone Pirate

So no, the bonuses of BP & Bright-throat most definitely are not overloaded like you claim. Even accepting your argument that foods should be balanced in the context of sets they are used in conjunction with (which is tenuous), there is still no justification for SLI to be at a deficit, since neither BP nor Bright-throat are at a surplus.

stat dense or not, the conditions do apply, as does their bonuses while their relationship with certain foods/drinks can apply:
-shackle, while easy to get, in certain situations/areas of the game is really just 2k main stat, 129 Main regen, 129 main dmg.
- BT/BP is stat heavy, but you do need stam for pvp and the main stats dont scale as high as dmg. Spring Loaded works with these, the only tri-stat drink in the game. That is why it wasn't adjusted, not to mention isnt intended for end-game meta application, just for leveling toons looking for a one-stop shop item because it scales with your level.
- automaton only impacts physical and doesn't buff your heals. Yes it is very strong, but no different from things like war maiden, spell strat, sword-singer etc. They all have the same 2-4pc bonuses in different orders with the 5pc VERY specific in its condition.


Reason spring loaded isn't adjusted is that if it was, what's stopping you from not moving away from that drink across all types of players? It's main function is to help newer players have access to a tri stat buff that you dont have to worry about each level.

FrancisCrawford

Insco851 wrote: »

But again there’s NO reason to run the special tri DRINK on anything outside those sets. They are absolutely tied together for balancing purposes imo.

False for characters below max level.

Insco851

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

But again there’s NO reason to run the special tri DRINK on anything outside those sets. They are absolutely tied together for balancing purposes imo.

False for characters below max level.

Fair play.

TheYKcid

Minno wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Why is everyone on OP's ass about this? Whether or not you agree with the push for parity, the fact remains that the v5.0.1 notes state:

• Foods and drinks that scale based on your level have had their values increased to put them on par with other consumed foods.

...which makes intent pretty clear. If SLI isn't giving the same bonus on a cp160 toon as, say, Longfin Pasty, then it's an oversight and should be rectified.

Insco851 wrote: »

Because there’s only 2 sets you would actually look to run it with. You might as well look at SLI like a regen drink as well because both Bone Pirate and Bright throat give an additional 150 regen respectively with a drink active.

So in reality it’s tri stat+150 recov. Mathematically it’s actually stronger than other regen drinks not needing to be ran with certain sets.

Claiming that a particular set bonus should be conflated with a consumable for balancing purposes is just fundamentally stupid. You do realise that the set in question would thus be one bonus short, and the setup as a whole would be at a stat deficit bringing you right back to square one, right?

Bone pirate and Bright throat have the equivalent of 6 line items of any given set.

Your first pretense is already wrong.

Shacklebreaker 5th piece bonus: 2000 stam & 2000 mag
The 2000 stam is equivalent to what 5th pc Bone Pirate gives, so let's compare 2000 mag to 150 regen.
We know the ratio based on 1pc bonuses is 1096:129
therefore 2000 mag = (2000/1096)*129 = 235 regen

So the 5th pc of Shacklebreaker is numerically more stat-dense than Bone Pirate, and it isn't even a conditional set!

But, you say, Shackle is intentionally overloaded as part of hybrid stat designs. So let's compare the 5th pc bonus of a strictly stamina conditional set, Automaton:

400 WD = 400*(1096/129) = 3398 max resources
= 2000 max resource + (1398/1096)*129 regen
= 2000 max resource + 164 regen

Conclusion: Automaton is also more stat-dense than Bone Pirate

So no, the bonuses of BP & Bright-throat most definitely are not overloaded like you claim. Even accepting your argument that foods should be balanced in the context of sets they are used in conjunction with (which is tenuous), there is still no justification for SLI to be at a deficit, since neither BP nor Bright-throat are at a surplus.

stat dense or not, the conditions do apply, as does their bonuses while their relationship with certain foods/drinks can apply:
-shackle, while easy to get, in certain situations/areas of the game is really just 2k main stat, 129 Main regen, 129 main dmg.
- BT/BP is stat heavy, but you do need stam for pvp and the main stats dont scale as high as dmg. Spring Loaded works with these, the only tri-stat drink in the game. That is why it wasn't adjusted, not to mention isnt intended for end-game meta application, just for leveling toons looking for a one-stop shop item because it scales with your level.
- automaton only impacts physical and doesn't buff your heals. Yes it is very strong, but no different from things like war maiden, spell strat, sword-singer etc. They all have the same 2-4pc bonuses in different orders with the 5pc VERY specific in its condition.


Reason spring loaded isn't adjusted is that if it was, what's stopping you from not moving away from that drink across all types of players? It's main function is to help newer players have access to a tri stat buff that you dont have to worry about each level.

Shacklebreaker is NEVER just 2000 main stat on the 5th piece, because anyone running it does so specifically to benefit from the increased offstat pool and sustain. I guess you could consider that a de-facto form of conditionality—but that just means it's even more equitable to BP/BT.

Insco851

TheYKcid wrote: »

Your balancing theory makes zero sense.

By that logic Witchmother's & Dubious would be overpowered when used in conjuction with BP/BT, and underpowered when used with any other sets.

Numerical food balance is independent of set choice.

5.0.1 Witchmother's Brew (or Dubious Camoran)
- 3094 Max Health / 9.4 = 331
- 2856 Max Magicka / 8.5 = 336
- 315 Magicka Recovery = 315
- Total effectiveness = 982

+150 = 1132

Even without the 150 on SLI it’s stronger still. (1208)

But hey, there’s a bunch of magtoons in Cyrodiil that would love a buff to SLI.... lol

Minno

TheYKcid wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Why is everyone on OP's ass about this? Whether or not you agree with the push for parity, the fact remains that the v5.0.1 notes state:

• Foods and drinks that scale based on your level have had their values increased to put them on par with other consumed foods.

...which makes intent pretty clear. If SLI isn't giving the same bonus on a cp160 toon as, say, Longfin Pasty, then it's an oversight and should be rectified.

Insco851 wrote: »

Because there’s only 2 sets you would actually look to run it with. You might as well look at SLI like a regen drink as well because both Bone Pirate and Bright throat give an additional 150 regen respectively with a drink active.

So in reality it’s tri stat+150 recov. Mathematically it’s actually stronger than other regen drinks not needing to be ran with certain sets.

Claiming that a particular set bonus should be conflated with a consumable for balancing purposes is just fundamentally stupid. You do realise that the set in question would thus be one bonus short, and the setup as a whole would be at a stat deficit bringing you right back to square one, right?

Bone pirate and Bright throat have the equivalent of 6 line items of any given set.

Your first pretense is already wrong.

Shacklebreaker 5th piece bonus: 2000 stam & 2000 mag
The 2000 stam is equivalent to what 5th pc Bone Pirate gives, so let's compare 2000 mag to 150 regen.
We know the ratio based on 1pc bonuses is 1096:129
therefore 2000 mag = (2000/1096)*129 = 235 regen

So the 5th pc of Shacklebreaker is numerically more stat-dense than Bone Pirate, and it isn't even a conditional set!

But, you say, Shackle is intentionally overloaded as part of hybrid stat designs. So let's compare the 5th pc bonus of a strictly stamina conditional set, Automaton:

400 WD = 400*(1096/129) = 3398 max resources
= 2000 max resource + (1398/1096)*129 regen
= 2000 max resource + 164 regen

Conclusion: Automaton is also more stat-dense than Bone Pirate

So no, the bonuses of BP & Bright-throat most definitely are not overloaded like you claim. Even accepting your argument that foods should be balanced in the context of sets they are used in conjunction with (which is tenuous), there is still no justification for SLI to be at a deficit, since neither BP nor Bright-throat are at a surplus.

stat dense or not, the conditions do apply, as does their bonuses while their relationship with certain foods/drinks can apply:
-shackle, while easy to get, in certain situations/areas of the game is really just 2k main stat, 129 Main regen, 129 main dmg.
- BT/BP is stat heavy, but you do need stam for pvp and the main stats dont scale as high as dmg. Spring Loaded works with these, the only tri-stat drink in the game. That is why it wasn't adjusted, not to mention isnt intended for end-game meta application, just for leveling toons looking for a one-stop shop item because it scales with your level.
- automaton only impacts physical and doesn't buff your heals. Yes it is very strong, but no different from things like war maiden, spell strat, sword-singer etc. They all have the same 2-4pc bonuses in different orders with the 5pc VERY specific in its condition.


Reason spring loaded isn't adjusted is that if it was, what's stopping you from not moving away from that drink across all types of players? It's main function is to help newer players have access to a tri stat buff that you dont have to worry about each level.

Shacklebreaker is NEVER just 2000 main stat on the 5th piece, because anyone running it does so specifically to benefit from the increased offstat pool and sustain. I guess you could consider that a de-facto form of conditionality—but that just means it's even more equitable to BP/BT.

what I mean is that, if your intent is for dmg, the opposite stat wont help you. Which means in PVE its really about those 3 lines of stats, and in PVP some applications makes shacklebreaker just a universal set. Why use shackle, if you can use things like automaton where the 5pc dmg is equal to about 4200 stam which is like running the entirety of shackle lol.

I don't think this is an issue. And if it is an issue to a majority of the game, it's so far down on the priority list, it's best to just not touch it anyway.

Non-issue.

TheYKcid

Insco851 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Your balancing theory makes zero sense.

By that logic Witchmother's & Dubious would be overpowered when used in conjuction with BP/BT, and underpowered when used with any other sets.

Numerical food balance is independent of set choice.

5.0.1 Witchmother's Brew (or Dubious Camoran)
- 3094 Max Health / 9.4 = 331
- 2856 Max Magicka / 8.5 = 336
- 315 Magicka Recovery = 315
- Total effectiveness = 982

+150 = 1132

Even without the 150 on SLI it’s stronger still. (1208)

But hey, there’s a bunch of magtoons in Cyrodiil that would love a buff to SLI.... lol

So basically your conclusion is that tristat food is more stat dense than 2-stat + regen foods.

Everyone already knew that, and it's not an SLI-specific issue.

TheYKcid

Minno wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Why is everyone on OP's ass about this? Whether or not you agree with the push for parity, the fact remains that the v5.0.1 notes state:

• Foods and drinks that scale based on your level have had their values increased to put them on par with other consumed foods.

...which makes intent pretty clear. If SLI isn't giving the same bonus on a cp160 toon as, say, Longfin Pasty, then it's an oversight and should be rectified.

Insco851 wrote: »

Because there’s only 2 sets you would actually look to run it with. You might as well look at SLI like a regen drink as well because both Bone Pirate and Bright throat give an additional 150 regen respectively with a drink active.

So in reality it’s tri stat+150 recov. Mathematically it’s actually stronger than other regen drinks not needing to be ran with certain sets.

Claiming that a particular set bonus should be conflated with a consumable for balancing purposes is just fundamentally stupid. You do realise that the set in question would thus be one bonus short, and the setup as a whole would be at a stat deficit bringing you right back to square one, right?

Bone pirate and Bright throat have the equivalent of 6 line items of any given set.

Your first pretense is already wrong.

Shacklebreaker 5th piece bonus: 2000 stam & 2000 mag
The 2000 stam is equivalent to what 5th pc Bone Pirate gives, so let's compare 2000 mag to 150 regen.
We know the ratio based on 1pc bonuses is 1096:129
therefore 2000 mag = (2000/1096)*129 = 235 regen

So the 5th pc of Shacklebreaker is numerically more stat-dense than Bone Pirate, and it isn't even a conditional set!

But, you say, Shackle is intentionally overloaded as part of hybrid stat designs. So let's compare the 5th pc bonus of a strictly stamina conditional set, Automaton:

400 WD = 400*(1096/129) = 3398 max resources
= 2000 max resource + (1398/1096)*129 regen
= 2000 max resource + 164 regen

Conclusion: Automaton is also more stat-dense than Bone Pirate

So no, the bonuses of BP & Bright-throat most definitely are not overloaded like you claim. Even accepting your argument that foods should be balanced in the context of sets they are used in conjunction with (which is tenuous), there is still no justification for SLI to be at a deficit, since neither BP nor Bright-throat are at a surplus.

stat dense or not, the conditions do apply, as does their bonuses while their relationship with certain foods/drinks can apply:
-shackle, while easy to get, in certain situations/areas of the game is really just 2k main stat, 129 Main regen, 129 main dmg.
- BT/BP is stat heavy, but you do need stam for pvp and the main stats dont scale as high as dmg. Spring Loaded works with these, the only tri-stat drink in the game. That is why it wasn't adjusted, not to mention isnt intended for end-game meta application, just for leveling toons looking for a one-stop shop item because it scales with your level.
- automaton only impacts physical and doesn't buff your heals. Yes it is very strong, but no different from things like war maiden, spell strat, sword-singer etc. They all have the same 2-4pc bonuses in different orders with the 5pc VERY specific in its condition.


Reason spring loaded isn't adjusted is that if it was, what's stopping you from not moving away from that drink across all types of players? It's main function is to help newer players have access to a tri stat buff that you dont have to worry about each level.

Shacklebreaker is NEVER just 2000 main stat on the 5th piece, because anyone running it does so specifically to benefit from the increased offstat pool and sustain. I guess you could consider that a de-facto form of conditionality—but that just means it's even more equitable to BP/BT.

what I mean is that, if your intent is for dmg, the opposite stat wont help you. Which means in PVE its really about those 3 lines of stats, and in PVP some applications makes shacklebreaker just a universal set. Why use shackle, if you can use things like automaton where the 5pc dmg is equal to about 4200 stam which is like running the entirety of shackle lol.

I don't think this is an issue. And if it is an issue to a majority of the game, it's so far down on the priority list, it's best to just not touch it anyway.

Non-issue.

Agreed there are bigger issues, but AFAIK the item team is distinct from the ones that handle combat balance and performance, so fixing this problem doesn't have any bearing on the others.

Anyway, just to humour you, here's a comparison with Necropotence (3150 mag on the 5th pc)—since it doesn't have any offstat to worry about, nor a conditional that precludes healing.

BP:
2000 stat + 150 regen
= 2000 + (150/129)*1096 stat
= 3274 stat

Surplus over Necro
= (3274/3150 - 1) * 100
= 3.93%

Hardly as overloaded as some are trying to suggest.

Insco851

TheYKcid wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Your balancing theory makes zero sense.

By that logic Witchmother's & Dubious would be overpowered when used in conjuction with BP/BT, and underpowered when used with any other sets.

Numerical food balance is independent of set choice.

5.0.1 Witchmother's Brew (or Dubious Camoran)
- 3094 Max Health / 9.4 = 331
- 2856 Max Magicka / 8.5 = 336
- 315 Magicka Recovery = 315
- Total effectiveness = 982

+150 = 1132

Even without the 150 on SLI it’s stronger still. (1208)

But hey, there’s a bunch of magtoons in Cyrodiil that would love a buff to SLI.... lol

So basically your conclusion is that tristat food is more stat dense than 2-stat + regen foods.

Everyone already knew that, and it's not an SLI-specific issue.

And that the math/effectiveness showed up only 18 points less than traditional tri stat food when used in the most obvious situation. It’s... balanced against tri food with those sets in mind. Like it or not. If you want to buff it more, that number quickly overcomes trifood effectiveness.

TheYKcid

Insco851 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Your balancing theory makes zero sense.

By that logic Witchmother's & Dubious would be overpowered when used in conjuction with BP/BT, and underpowered when used with any other sets.

Numerical food balance is independent of set choice.

5.0.1 Witchmother's Brew (or Dubious Camoran)
- 3094 Max Health / 9.4 = 331
- 2856 Max Magicka / 8.5 = 336
- 315 Magicka Recovery = 315
- Total effectiveness = 982

+150 = 1132

Even without the 150 on SLI it’s stronger still. (1208)

But hey, there’s a bunch of magtoons in Cyrodiil that would love a buff to SLI.... lol

So basically your conclusion is that tristat food is more stat dense than 2-stat + regen foods.

Everyone already knew that, and it's not an SLI-specific issue.

And that the math/effectiveness showed up only 18 points less than traditional tri stat food when used in the most obvious situation. It’s... balanced against tri food with those sets in mind. Like it or not. If you want to buff it more, that number quickly overcomes trifood effectiveness.

You're still insisting that the "stat surplus" from the BP/BT sets should be conflated with foods from a balancing perspective, when I've repeatedly shown that this stat surplus is either marginal or non-existent. You don't have an argument.

Insco851

TheYKcid wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Your balancing theory makes zero sense.

By that logic Witchmother's & Dubious would be overpowered when used in conjuction with BP/BT, and underpowered when used with any other sets.

Numerical food balance is independent of set choice.

5.0.1 Witchmother's Brew (or Dubious Camoran)
- 3094 Max Health / 9.4 = 331
- 2856 Max Magicka / 8.5 = 336
- 315 Magicka Recovery = 315
- Total effectiveness = 982

+150 = 1132

Even without the 150 on SLI it’s stronger still. (1208)

But hey, there’s a bunch of magtoons in Cyrodiil that would love a buff to SLI.... lol

So basically your conclusion is that tristat food is more stat dense than 2-stat + regen foods.

Everyone already knew that, and it's not an SLI-specific issue.

And that the math/effectiveness showed up only 18 points less than traditional tri stat food when used in the most obvious situation. It’s... balanced against tri food with those sets in mind. Like it or not. If you want to buff it more, that number quickly overcomes trifood effectiveness.

You're still insisting that the "stat surplus" from the BP/BT sets should be conflated with foods from a balancing perspective, when I've repeatedly shown that this stat surplus is either marginal or non-existent. You don't have an argument.

Outside leveling a toon... why would you run this DRINK?