Taking a PvE build into Cyrodiil: Is this to be expected? (Not a complaint)

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Simply looking to expand my knowledge here. I had my first trip into Cyrodiil today, using a build that was made specifically for dungeons.

Not gonna' lie, just using an Alcast build. I mean it works in dungeons, so hey.

Anyway, I took that PvE dungeon build into Cyrodiil, and when faced with PvP... I died fast.

Now I know it's important to go into Cyrodiil with a PvP build, and I am working on gaining the skill points to expand my character's abilities.

I just want to ask, would my use of a PvE build today be a significant factor as to why I was pretty pants today?

geonsocal

yes, unless your pve build is really basic in terms of damage output, sustain and survivability - it may not work so well in pvp...

not sure how much damage you encounter in dungeons, but, the amount of incoming damage in pvp can be pretty significant...

the impenetrable trait is useless in pve, but, super important in pvp...

mursie

yes - pve builds are designed for damage with little thought to sustain (due to synergy expectations from teammates). They utilize divine traits and weapon loadouts that don't focus on any survival abilities like wings, shields, cloak, vigor, etc..

pvp is more well rounded. impenetrable is a key trait used. builds incorporate both offensive and defensive abilities. it is not uncommon to have 60% of your bar slots filled with defensive and utility skills...

this is why you got pants. that and the fact that real players do not behave like pve mobs...requiring more knowledge on how to dodge and mitigate damage while fighting.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Thank you for the insight guys. It's all very good to know.

The lesson learnt from a mistake is worth 100 successes if you listen properly.

geonsocal

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Thank you for the insight guys. It's all very good to know.

The lesson learnt from a mistake is worth 100 successes if you listen properly.

awwww right on, if there's anything we can do to help out, please let us know...

sadly some of the more antagonistic personalities get highlighted in pvp play, but, the truth is we are very much a close community - whether you are fighting with or against someone...

at the end of the day, we really do need one another...

geonsocal

if you can avoid it - try not to get caught in too many outnumbered or solo situations for a while...

gear is important, but: sustain (potions, light/heavy attacks) and defensive tactics (block, roll dodge, breaking line of sight), and a comfort with your rotations (buffs, debuffs, shields, heals, attacks, executes), are even more important...

a lot of successful pvping (for about 80% of us out there), is just being in the right situation with the numbers on your side...

just like everywhere else in life, the top 10% or so really stick out and have a large skill and build advantage...try to avoid those kind of folks as best you can for a while

Kartalin

The main thing is to not be afraid to die, just as it is important to learn from mistakes or even learning to recognize your mistakes.

A lot of people starting out build like they’re scared to lose, and you may stay alive for awhile like that but it also makes it difficult to win. But you may prefer to wrap your head around defense and sustain first before you tackle learning how to win 1v1. I don’t think there’s one right way to do it. You’ll encounter opponents that build super tanky but can kite their targets and slowly wear them down and secure the kill. Others you face build as glass cannons where if they can kill quickly then defense and sustain are less important.

Find what works best for your playstyle and lets you be successful and most importantly have fun.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

As ever, I'm very grateful for the advice.

I'm going to focus on getting more skill points for now. Still got lots ahead of me. just from general main story questing across Tamriel.

During that time I can look at getting gear as well.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Should I consider Cyrodiil sets? Are these actually any good for PvP?

geonsocal

heck yeah, there a few useful (depending on your class and playstyle) sets there...

even better than that - they're super cheap at guild traders...

it's great to have top end dungeon, arena, and/or trial gear, but, there 's a lot of crafted, zone, and pvp (cyrodiil and battlegrounds) sets that will work just fine...

if you can identify some of the gear you might like to pick up, you can target those particular areas for your gameplay and skyshard hunting...

I need to also hunt some skyshards down for some characters...my plan is to use the psijic questline to do so (I'm on console, and don't have those useful addons)...

SirAndy

I took my solo PvE Pet MagSorc to Cyrodiil during the last event there. All devines gear with no impen and only AOE skills slotted.

In a weird way it was actually fun, i had some rather interesting 1x1 fights, couldn't do much damage unless someone stepped into my AOE but i held my own with my shields and the Clannfear burst heal.

Even got some hate whispers about how much i sucked at PvP after a 10 minute battle with a guy who finally managed to pin me down after my stamina was depleted.

I was laughing at him the whole time ...

geonsocal

SirAndy wrote: »

I took my solo PvE Pet MagSorc to Cyrodiil during the last event there. All devines gear with no impen and only AOE skills slotted.

I don't dungeon too often, so, I'll usually be okay with gear even if I haven't pvp'd with that character for months...

what will get me killed though is having pve type skills selected, or, having the wrong potions and stuff quickslotted...

CMDR_Un1k0rn

geonsocal wrote: »

heck yeah, there a few useful (depending on your class and playstyle) sets there...

even better than that - they're super cheap at guild traders...

it's great to have top end dungeon, arena, and/or trial gear, but, there 's a lot of crafted, zone, and pvp (cyrodiil and battlegrounds) sets that will work just fine...

if you can identify some of the gear you might like to pick up, you can target those particular areas for your gameplay and skyshard hunting...

I need to also hunt some skyshards down for some characters...my plan is to use the psijic questline to do so (I'm on console, and don't have those useful addons)...

Awesome. I'll begin work on those then.

olsborg

Impenetrable trait and crit resistance(same thing) is super important for pvp.

Iskiab

olsborg wrote: »

Impenetrable trait and crit resistance(same thing) is super important for pvp.

This can’t be understated.

In pve the name of the game is to sacrifice everything to eek out a little more damage, for example divine traits don’t do too much but are the standard because they add the most damage.

In pvp you’re trying to be as well rounded as possible. The best specs are a mix of damage, healing and tank all wrapped in one. When you examine abilities and sets, look for the ones that give the biggest bang for the cost, not just do the most damage.

Waffennacht

There's a far larger range of viable sets for PvP.

While PvE only has a few, a part of why I enjoyPvP so much

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I’ve always PVP’d in “PVE gear” without impen. It can be done but you’re essentially trying to master Spanish 402 before taking Spanish 101 if you try it. I get all my crit resist from CP (about 1300, not a ton but it helps). So how do I do this? Let me now rattle off the defensive abilities that I currently have equipped.

- Light armor shield
- Resto staff shield
- Psijic shield that procs every time I block
- Instant heal
- Heal over time
- Time Freeze
- Rapids
- Immovable potions
- Invisibility potions

When I bar swap no matter what I always have a shield equipped to my X button, so it’s always available. The resto staff heal is equipped on the same bar as my two heals (obviously) so if I have to flip to that bar away from my DPS bar, the shield on it is the one that grows larger based upon my lower health. If you gank me my usual instant response is X, bar swap, X, Y so I’m now double shielded (triple if I’m blocking) and totally healed up. I can run through that rotation 6 or 8 times before I need to go on offense and usually by that point the attacker is out of resources and my ultimate is ready.

You really need to try and think about every possible situation. To be good in Cyrodiil you’re better off being a B+ student at everything imaginable than just an A+ at one thing.

Waffennacht

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

I’ve always PVP’d in “PVE gear” without impen. It can be done but you’re essentially trying to master Spanish 402 before taking Spanish 101 if you try it. I get all my crit resist from CP (about 1300, not a ton but it helps). So how do I do this? Let me now rattle off the defensive abilities that I currently have equipped.

- Light armor shield
- Resto staff shield
- Psijic shield that procs every time I block
- Instant heal
- Heal over time
- Time Freeze
- Rapids
- Immovable potions
- Invisibility potions

When I bar swap no matter what I always have a shield equipped to my X button, so it’s always available. The resto staff heal is equipped on the same bar as my two heals (obviously) so if I have to flip to that bar away from my DPS bar, the shield on it is the one that grows larger based upon my lower health. If you gank me my usual instant response is X, bar swap, X, Y so I’m now double shielded (triple if I’m blocking) and totally healed up. I can run through that rotation 6 or 8 times before I need to go on offense and usually by that point the attacker is out of resources and my ultimate is ready.

You really need to try and think about every possible situation. To be good in Cyrodiil you’re better off being a B+ student at everything imaginable than just an A+ at one thing.

This is way more insightful than it looks. A lot of people discount this method of PvP, while it's very viable. I run a very similar build and style in BGs and have success.

Noctus

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Simply looking to expand my knowledge here. I had my first trip into Cyrodiil today, using a build that was made specifically for dungeons.

Not gonna' lie, just using an Alcast build. I mean it works in dungeons, so hey.

Anyway, I took that PvE dungeon build into Cyrodiil, and when faced with PvP... I died fast.

Now I know it's important to go into Cyrodiil with a PvP build, and I am working on gaining the skill points to expand my character's abilities.

I just want to ask, would my use of a PvE build today be a significant factor as to why I was pretty pants today?

in no cp pvp u can go with pve gear just have some skills equiped that can heal u and if ur a healer nvm ull do fine.

Davadin

1. impen trait.
2. ignore toxic chat.
3. join a group.

you'll be fine.

btw, u play Elite Dangerous? (username starts with CMDR...)

Dagoth_Rac

Most of your dying in PvP is lack of experience in PvP. You can switch to the most powerful and respected PvP builds out there and you will still die a lot. You are new. If you want to stick with a PvE build before investing lots of time and gold into PvP stuff, go with whatever got you through VMA. VMA is the closest to PvP you can get in PvE. You cannot depend on a tank to keep hard-hitting enemies from focusing on you, you cannot depend on a healer keeping you alive if you are taking a lot of incoming damage, you cannot depend on lots of synergies and support skills from other players to keep your resources up, etc. All things that have some similarity to PvP. VMA is probably only PvE content where you cannot specialize. You need to be well-rounded and able to do a little bit of everything. PvP is still gonna be a lot different, but VMA would be best starting point for transitioning from PvE to PvP.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Davadin wrote: »

1. impen trait.
2. ignore toxic chat.
3. join a group.

you'll be fine.

btw, u play Elite Dangerous? (username starts with CMDR...)

Thanks guys.

Haha, yes friend, that I do. CMDR Un1k0rn, Cobra Mk III aficionado and FD forum overlord.

Davadin

lol

o7 CMDR Davadin. FDL security forces. Paladin Consortium.

Cyrodiil = ED's open world. no mercy. got ganker. but if u pack enough build, u'll survive. mix it up with some experience, u'll be the one shooting them back.

spend enough hours at it, u'll be the one ganking......

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Davadin wrote: »

lol

o7 CMDR Davadin. FDL security forces. Paladin Consortium.

Cyrodiil = ED's open world. no mercy. got ganker. but if u pack enough build, u'll survive. mix it up with some experience, u'll be the one shooting them back.

spend enough hours at it, u'll be the one ganking......

ED is actually where I toughened myself up for PvP. I don't take it as the end of the world if I die in PvP anymore. None of this is real, and eventually, all those Mobius care-bears are gonna' get ganked big time by FD when the server is switched off. Same with any online game.

Cynical but it is true.

But as a result of exposing myself to PvP in ED, I am not one of these guys here who complains when they die in Cyrodiil. I analyse so I can improve, but that's just called playing the game.

DeadlyRecluse

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

I just want to ask, would my use of a PvE build today be a significant factor as to why I was pretty pants today?

The lack of impen ALONE is going to make you die fast, even if the rest of the setup is pretty flexible stat sets that work okay in either environment.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

I just want to ask, would my use of a PvE build today be a significant factor as to why I was pretty pants today?

The lack of impen ALONE is going to make you die fast, even if the rest of the setup is pretty flexible stat sets that work okay in either environment.

That's perfectly fine. Your reply is exactly the answer I was looking for. One does not improve unless one asks what he could do better.

I'm slowly getting my hands on some solid gear. Going to take a little time, but eventually.

And I suspect there will be a lot of crystals spent in transmuting gear. Again, this is expected gameplay and I welcome the challenge!

Davadin

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

But as a result of exposing myself to PvP in ED, I am not one of these guys here who complains when they die in Cyrodiil. I analyse so I can improve, but that's just called playing the game.

good. u'll die a lot. lol

but it's ok.

also, in the guild store u can search by trait. if u got ur eyes on specific set (whats ur class btw?) then search for that in guild traders.

check out "tamriel trade center" website for gears and where to locate specific items.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Davadin wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

But as a result of exposing myself to PvP in ED, I am not one of these guys here who complains when they die in Cyrodiil. I analyse so I can improve, but that's just called playing the game.

good. u'll die a lot. lol

but it's ok.

also, in the guild store u can search by trait. if u got ur eyes on specific set (whats ur class btw?) then search for that in guild traders.

check out "tamriel trade center" website for gears and where to locate specific items.

Nightblade.

I know... LOL

Datolite

Another tip: play noCP instead. Save yourself from having to reallocate CPs every damn time you wanna go to Cyrodiil. Plus you can use the same build for BGs.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Datolite wrote: »

Another tip: play noCP instead. Save yourself from having to reallocate CPs every damn time you wanna go to Cyrodiil. Plus you can use the same build for BGs.

Noted, cheers.

Katahdin

Expect to die alot while learning then expect to die a bit less when you have a better idea