Rending Slashes' direct damage needs a damage increase to be in line with other DOTs.

brandonv516

Arcanasx wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

No thank you.

"I personally don't like rendings being used against me on live so I'm happy to see it not be brought up to the standards of other DOT abilities that have been buffed next patch".

It's fine the way it is.

Xvorg

Arcanasx wrote: »

Lets compare some ability tooltips here. These are taken with approximately 4800 weapon damage, 32.8k stamina and with the Slimecraw set.

(And remember that the PTS rending slashes has its initial bleed damage tick delayed so you can no longer spam it and have those bleed ticks happening. The main reason why it is used in PVP now in live is because you can spam it and get those bleed ticks between each use. Its snare is also often made redundant especially in group situations (which is what the majority of PVP takes place) where AOE snares are a lot more effective, and its increased PTS DOT damage is countered by its increase of the PTS DOT duration. And these new AOE buffs will not stop these DOTS from being used as a potential spammable).





(I'm also on a DK so its important to take into account the 2m extra range on rending slashes and claw)

Simple math:

Carve = 9353 + 15770 = 25123 dmg; 2916 stam cost
Rending = 3650 + 16045 = 19605 dmg + 40% snare; 1620 stam cost.

Seems quite balanced. If you want to increase the DD part, you MUST increase its cost. If you want to make the dmg equal to rending you should increase the cost over 3500 stam or drop the snare, in that case you will end with 2 skills that do the same

Titan_01

You simple math neglects the fact that Carve is a conal AoE ability with rending is single target.

Kidgangster101

Titan_01 wrote: »

You simple math neglects the fact that Carve is a conal AoE ability with rending is single target.

Ya but carve and noxious breath are cone attacks that have clunky and weird hit boxes that have chances to miss. There is a reason the moves are not really used on live because a miss means a lot in pvp if.

If you miss you lose stamina and get no damage in return. Then you have to try again might work or might not. Also you lose precious time in pvp where you are not applying any pressure because you are missing attacks where re ding is a guaranteed hit (unless they roll dodge) to apply the pressure.

Xvorg

Titan_01 wrote: »

You simple math neglects the fact that Carve is a conal AoE ability with rending is single target.

Nope, if you consider that rending also executes and has increased dmg on root/stun/fear, they become quite balanced again

Masel

Xvorg wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Lets compare some ability tooltips here. These are taken with approximately 4800 weapon damage, 32.8k stamina and with the Slimecraw set.

(And remember that the PTS rending slashes has its initial bleed damage tick delayed so you can no longer spam it and have those bleed ticks happening. The main reason why it is used in PVP now in live is because you can spam it and get those bleed ticks between each use. Its snare is also often made redundant especially in group situations (which is what the majority of PVP takes place) where AOE snares are a lot more effective, and its increased PTS DOT damage is countered by its increase of the PTS DOT duration. And these new AOE buffs will not stop these DOTS from being used as a potential spammable).





(I'm also on a DK so its important to take into account the 2m extra range on rending slashes and claw)

Simple math:

Carve = 9353 + 15770 = 25123 dmg; 2916 stam cost
Rending = 3650 + 16045 = 19605 dmg + 40% snare; 1620 stam cost.

Seems quite balanced. If you want to increase the DD part, you MUST increase its cost. If you want to make the dmg equal to rending you should increase the cost over 3500 stam or drop the snare, in that case you will end with 2 skills that do the same

You do know that rending slashes has two initial hits with that amount of damage? So you have to double it to get the initial hit. Also consider that rending has (for exactly that reason) twice the chance to actually proc item sets and bleeds.

Arcanasx

Masel wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Lets compare some ability tooltips here. These are taken with approximately 4800 weapon damage, 32.8k stamina and with the Slimecraw set.

(And remember that the PTS rending slashes has its initial bleed damage tick delayed so you can no longer spam it and have those bleed ticks happening. The main reason why it is used in PVP now in live is because you can spam it and get those bleed ticks between each use. Its snare is also often made redundant especially in group situations (which is what the majority of PVP takes place) where AOE snares are a lot more effective, and its increased PTS DOT damage is countered by its increase of the PTS DOT duration. And these new AOE buffs will not stop these DOTS from being used as a potential spammable).





(I'm also on a DK so its important to take into account the 2m extra range on rending slashes and claw)

Simple math:

Carve = 9353 + 15770 = 25123 dmg; 2916 stam cost
Rending = 3650 + 16045 = 19605 dmg + 40% snare; 1620 stam cost.

Seems quite balanced. If you want to increase the DD part, you MUST increase its cost. If you want to make the dmg equal to rending you should increase the cost over 3500 stam or drop the snare, in that case you will end with 2 skills that do the same

You do know that rending slashes has two initial hits with that amount of damage? So you have to double it to get the initial hit. Also consider that rending has (for exactly that reason) twice the chance to actually proc item sets and bleeds.

I have not considered the double proc chance, which is a good point. So maybe the direct damage portion shouldn't be as high as carve or noxious but I think it could still use a small boost, say using the stats that I have each of those rending hits could hit for about 4k each, Without the quick initial bleed tick you will still have less burst and spamming it would make the masters dual wield less effective as you wont be getting those initial one bleed ticks between spammed uses.

Arcanasx

Xvorg wrote: »

Titan_01 wrote: »

You simple math neglects the fact that Carve is a conal AoE ability with rending is single target.

Nope, if you consider that rending also executes and has increased dmg on root/stun/fear, they become quite balanced again

Rendings is not a proper execute, so it's unlikely that you'll get a lot of benefit from that when there's proper executes out there to use. As for increased dmg on root/stun/fear how much uptime do you think you're going to get for having that passive activated in a PVP setting? What about against PVE bosses? It would be quite infrequent. And you are overlooking the potential that AOEs have over single target skills. Even AOE cones have far more DPS potential than single target abilities, and those single target abilities should be more efficient to use against single targets than AOEs.

Arcanasx

Davadin wrote: »

Rending is OP in live. It's getting a little nerf so it doesn't get the DoT applied immediately. This is without Master Weapons.

other DoT gets a buff, because they're underwhelming.


It's fine.


Let me enjoy going Carve-puke-carve-puke-carve-puke-carve-puke...... in LIve servers.....

Right, because reducing the burst potential by about 40% is a "little nerf". All I'm asking is to not have such a drastic decrease while other literal AOE DOTs have been buffed to have greater burst potential, which is an odd change. And I get that Rendings is really strong on live, but I'm not talking about live, I'm talking about the ability's future performance (which will come in a later patch) in comparison to other skills.

And why do people keep bringing up its performance on live as a justification for keeping it the way it is on the PTS when other AOE DOTS are currently doing more single target damage than single target rendings? Have you guys actually been testing these skills?

youtube.com/watch?v=UakXKgngwPo

If I'm a stam dk why would I ever choose rendings first over claw and noxious as they currently are? Its clearly being outperformed in PVE (and my proposed change will not change that) and for PVP its performance will be taking a big hit as well. Its also funny that there is as much complaining about bleeds as there are on these forums. If anything (especially in CP) people have too much survivability at the moment. And anyone who plays CP PVP or even high MMR battlegrounds will agree that too much survivability is currently a problem.

TheRealSniker

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

cpuScientist

TheRealSniker wrote: »

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

... Agreed

Nerftheforums

Imagine campaigning for buffs to bleeds in 2019.

Arcanasx

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Imagine campaigning for buffs to bleeds in 2019.

Imagine lacking reading comprehension to such an extent you actually think I'm campaigning to buff "bleed damage", when I'm asking for the direct damage portion which is not bleed damage to be brought up to be closer to other DOTs.

Nerftheforums

Arcanasx wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Imagine campaigning for buffs to bleeds in 2019.

Imagine lacking reading comprehension to such an extent you actually think I'm campaigning to buff "bleed damage", when I'm asking for the direct damage portion which is not bleed damage to be brought up to be closer to other DOTs

Dude you are literally asking to buff the main source of bleed damage in the game, initial hit or not idgaf. You are asking a buff to rending and blood craze. You never set foot in pvp, did you? You seriously have no idea how strong those skills hit for in pvp? And trust me, you don't use those skills for the initial hit, but for the dot that ignores resistances. There is literally 0 need to buff something that is already strong, even if not "in line with initial hit standards". You can't standardize an exception, and a skill that has a bleed dot is and exception.

Arcanasx

TheRealSniker wrote: »

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Really productive post. If you understand some math you would realise that the rendings change I'm proposing would still do less damage than It does currently on live. Meanwhile other DOTs have received huge buffs, including an AOE bleed DOT that on the PTS currently does a lot more damage than single target rendings, and yet you don't seem to have a problem with that.

cpuScientist

I get what you mean OP. rending is losing on it's direct burst. As the first dot would tick and thus was good as a spammable with that tick being moved forward and with the PBAoE changes these dots have lost some of their strength. Now 7k initial is still alot and I really think fair for the price and the dot gained afterwards. Dots being used as spammables really just showed bad design. 7k is fine. Now I know what you mean about carve aswell that is now a nice master weapon to use and a big buff to small groups vs big groups. But master DW will remain the best single target dot for PvP and rending with the added execute damage and cost is still great in PvE.

Arcanasx

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Imagine campaigning for buffs to bleeds in 2019.

Imagine lacking reading comprehension to such an extent you actually think I'm campaigning to buff "bleed damage", when I'm asking for the direct damage portion which is not bleed damage to be brought up to be closer to other DOTs

Dude you are literally asking to buff the main source of bleed damage in the game, initial hit or not idgaf. You are asking a buff to rending and blood craze. You never set foot in pvp, did you? You seriously have no idea how strong those skills hit for in pvp? And trust me, you don't use those skills for the initial hit, but for the dot that ignores resistances. There is literally 0 need to buff something that is already strong, even if not "in line with initial hit standards". You can't standardize an exception, and a skill that has a bleed dot is and exception.

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Imagine campaigning for buffs to bleeds in 2019.

Imagine lacking reading comprehension to such an extent you actually think I'm campaigning to buff "bleed damage", when I'm asking for the direct damage portion which is not bleed damage to be brought up to be closer to other DOTs

Dude you are literally asking to buff the main source of bleed damage in the game, initial hit or not idgaf. You are asking a buff to rending and blood craze. You never set foot in pvp, did you? You seriously have no idea how strong those skills hit for in pvp? And trust me, you don't use those skills for the initial hit, but for the dot that ignores resistances. There is literally 0 need to buff something that is already strong, even if not "in line with initial hit standards". You can't standardize an exception, and a skill that has a bleed dot is and exception.

Are you fine with the way Carve is? Do you believe rendings and carve to be balanced well against each other?

Nerftheforums

Arcanasx wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Imagine campaigning for buffs to bleeds in 2019.

Imagine lacking reading comprehension to such an extent you actually think I'm campaigning to buff "bleed damage", when I'm asking for the direct damage portion which is not bleed damage to be brought up to be closer to other DOTs

Dude you are literally asking to buff the main source of bleed damage in the game, initial hit or not idgaf. You are asking a buff to rending and blood craze. You never set foot in pvp, did you? You seriously have no idea how strong those skills hit for in pvp? And trust me, you don't use those skills for the initial hit, but for the dot that ignores resistances. There is literally 0 need to buff something that is already strong, even if not "in line with initial hit standards". You can't standardize an exception, and a skill that has a bleed dot is and exception.

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Imagine campaigning for buffs to bleeds in 2019.

Imagine lacking reading comprehension to such an extent you actually think I'm campaigning to buff "bleed damage", when I'm asking for the direct damage portion which is not bleed damage to be brought up to be closer to other DOTs

Dude you are literally asking to buff the main source of bleed damage in the game, initial hit or not idgaf. You are asking a buff to rending and blood craze. You never set foot in pvp, did you? You seriously have no idea how strong those skills hit for in pvp? And trust me, you don't use those skills for the initial hit, but for the dot that ignores resistances. There is literally 0 need to buff something that is already strong, even if not "in line with initial hit standards". You can't standardize an exception, and a skill that has a bleed dot is and exception.

Are you fine with the way Carve is? Do you believe rendings and carve to be balanced well against each other?

Absolutely not. But buffing rending to be even stronger is not a solution. It is a skill already overperforming if paired with master's weapons, same with carve. I'd rather see the latter tuned down than the former buffed.

Chilly-McFreeze

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Imagine campaigning for buffs to bleeds in 2019.

Imagine lacking reading comprehension to such an extent you actually think I'm campaigning to buff "bleed damage", when I'm asking for the direct damage portion which is not bleed damage to be brought up to be closer to other DOTs

You never set foot in pvp, did you? You seriously have no idea how strong those skills hit for in pvp? And trust me, you don't use those skills for the initial hit, but for the dot that ignores resistances. There is literally 0 need to buff something that is already strong, even if not "in line with initial hit standards". You can't standardize an exception, and a skill that has a bleed dot is and exception.

On live some classes spam it because the first bleed tick happens before they could spam the skill again. So by spamming it you hit your opponent with the inital hit and the first tick.
On PTS you won't get that first tick if you spam it because of the prolonged delay. No bleed tick by spamming Rending's.
At the same time they increased the initial hit of Carve by 50% which also happens to be a cone.
OP merely states that it's a rather strange change for a patch that has "bring every skill in line" written all over it.
People already rightfully mentioned that there is more to those skills (double proc chance, snare, costs) than the "burst" dmg comparison shows.
But to right out mock OP for this is just wrong. He has a point.

Also that point brings up shows even more questions.
Why does ZOS think AoE/Conals should have nearly the same damage as ST attacks in general (Sap, Tornado)?
Why does Carve (instant AoE + bleed/shield) + master 2h does more damage when used against at least 2 opponents than Dizzy (ST, cast time) ?
What spam should classes use that don't have one in their class kit? Flurry is a channel, doesn't even proc Ravager while Jabs do (but at least got a dmg buff). Dizzy lost all appeal with the 14% nerf. Rending lost it's spam factor through the delay. Leaves us with Hidden Blade (useless against DKs, snare removed), Crushing Weapons (clunky) and Carve which it probably will be. Because why spam weak ST with cast time when you can get better dmg via instant conals? But it requires master weapons.
But wait, where do I know that from? The good spam locked behind master weapons? Ah, mag sorcs. Seems to be the vision for the class.

Nerftheforums

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Imagine campaigning for buffs to bleeds in 2019.

Imagine lacking reading comprehension to such an extent you actually think I'm campaigning to buff "bleed damage", when I'm asking for the direct damage portion which is not bleed damage to be brought up to be closer to other DOTs

You never set foot in pvp, did you? You seriously have no idea how strong those skills hit for in pvp? And trust me, you don't use those skills for the initial hit, but for the dot that ignores resistances. There is literally 0 need to buff something that is already strong, even if not "in line with initial hit standards". You can't standardize an exception, and a skill that has a bleed dot is and exception.

On live some classes spam it because the first bleed tick happens before they could spam the skill again. So by spamming it you hit your opponent with the inital hit and the first tick.
On PTS you won't get that first tick if you spam it because of the prolonged delay. No bleed tick by spamming Rending's.
At the same time they increased the initial hit of Carve by 50% which also happens to be a cone.
OP merely states that it's a rather strange change for a patch that has "bring every skill in line" written all over it.
People already rightfully mentioned that there is more to those skills (double proc chance, snare, costs) than the "burst" dmg comparison shows.
But to right out mock OP for this is just wrong. He has a point.

Also that point brings up shows even more questions.
Why does ZOS think AoE/Conals should have nearly the same damage as ST attacks in general (Sap, Tornado)?
Why does Carve (instant AoE + bleed/shield) + master 2h does more damage when used against at least 2 opponents than Dizzy (ST, cast time) ?
What spam should classes use that don't have one in their class kit? Flurry is a channel, doesn't even proc Ravager while Jabs do (but at least got a dmg buff). Dizzy lost all appeal with the 14% nerf. Rending lost it's spam factor through the delay. Leaves us with Hidden Blade (useless against DKs, snare removed), Crushing Weapons (clunky) and Carve which it probably will be. Because why spam weak ST with cast time when you can get better dmg via instant conals? But it requires master weapons.
But wait, where do I know that from? The good spam locked behind master weapons? Ah, mag sorcs. Seems to be the vision for the class.

I'm not gonna answer to those questions for the simple reason that I think zos isn't really doing half a decent job with this patch. It would be an endless discussion.

Now I do agree, op has a point in asking, but what he is asking is distached from reality imo. I have no issues with people spamming rending because it doesn't deal as much damage as a normal spammable, and it should not. You should not be able to use a dot as a spammable, and the fact that venomous clas, rending and now noxious are used for that purpose is, imo, a skill design issue. You should use dots for the dot, not for the initial hit. Because of this, I believe that buffing the initial damage of one of the strongest dot skills in the game is straight out a zos thing to do (and I definitely do not intend this in a good way).

Davadin

Arcanasx wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Imagine campaigning for buffs to bleeds in 2019.

Imagine lacking reading comprehension to such an extent you actually think I'm campaigning to buff "bleed damage", when I'm asking for the direct damage portion which is not bleed damage to be brought up to be closer to other DOTs

Dude you are literally asking to buff the main source of bleed damage in the game, initial hit or not idgaf. You are asking a buff to rending and blood craze. You never set foot in pvp, did you? You seriously have no idea how strong those skills hit for in pvp? And trust me, you don't use those skills for the initial hit, but for the dot that ignores resistances. There is literally 0 need to buff something that is already strong, even if not "in line with initial hit standards". You can't standardize an exception, and a skill that has a bleed dot is and exception.

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Imagine campaigning for buffs to bleeds in 2019.

Imagine lacking reading comprehension to such an extent you actually think I'm campaigning to buff "bleed damage", when I'm asking for the direct damage portion which is not bleed damage to be brought up to be closer to other DOTs

Dude you are literally asking to buff the main source of bleed damage in the game, initial hit or not idgaf. You are asking a buff to rending and blood craze. You never set foot in pvp, did you? You seriously have no idea how strong those skills hit for in pvp? And trust me, you don't use those skills for the initial hit, but for the dot that ignores resistances. There is literally 0 need to buff something that is already strong, even if not "in line with initial hit standards". You can't standardize an exception, and a skill that has a bleed dot is and exception.

Are you fine with the way Carve is? Do you believe rendings and carve to be balanced well against each other?

Yes. Don't touch carve. I WANT CARVE.

My Master Axe is ready............................