Should Vampire & Werewolf skills be illegal in line with Necromancy?

Heromofo

Yes, Vampire and Werewolf skills should be illegal.

LapisLazuli99 wrote: »

SkerKro wrote: »

Sure. Ill change my vote. Only if repeat thieves and murderers get a reputation system put in and get a bounty instantly soon as they walk into town after being recognized by green and yellow npcs without using the sewers. No matter if they ever got caught or not.

I can't tell how serious you re but that could actually be fun XD Crime pays well in ESO and it would put an incentive to actually be good at it.

This i would welcome the challenge. Anyone who makes bank daily as a thief / murderer knows all too well how lucrative it is. Plus it's pretty darn easy if you watch and learn their patterns before striking.

Recklessly going for it would get ya caught.

Thevampirenight

bearbelly wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Okay here is how I see this. Maybe all classes could get a skill that would be illegal to use. Vampires as they are not nearly as dangerous as werewolves well they are dangeorus just not to an entire city full of people maybe some of them. Given if they can control it or cover it up. They shouldn't be given a bounty for stage four.

That logic is inconsistent.
If a vampire shouldn't be given a bounty for Stage 4, then a werewolf shouldn't be given a bounty just for transforming.
Nobody gets hurt in the process of a transformation.

Just like a vampire simply standing around being at Stage 4 isn't causing anyone any harm, a werewolf doesn't cause harm simply by transforming. So if you don't believe a vampire should earn a bounty for being at Stage 4, then a werewolf shouldn't be given a bounty just for the act of transforming.

Both already receive bounties if they feed on or attack innocents.


I do agree, in order to be consistent across the board, that if a necromancer is going to be penalized for raising the dead within town limits, then both vampires and werewolves should get a bounty for either entering town at Stage 4 or transforming in town.

Otherwise, nobody should get a bounty if they aren't actually harming innocent folk.

Well here is how more dangerous a lycanthrope can be then a standard vampire. A vampire wiithout an essense drain attack, like oblvion vampires. Would be at a 3 or four. Skyrim vampires would be at a 5 or six and I would place eso vampires at a 4 or 5, vampire lord form would be at a ten or 13 but they are so very rare. But a werewolf form would be at a 15 or 20 in terms of how much damage they could do especially if a pack full of them started mass murdering everyone. Sure they can be driven off or even killed. I think this is how the imperial legion might see it. As bad as vampires are. Maybe one of the reasons why they are not hunted out of Cyrodiil could have been they patrolled the borders keeping other vampire clans out and maybe even keeping out lycanthropes. Given the legion has a policy if your infected you have to report in for execution. They take Lycanthropy extremely seriously. As for why it shouldt be a crime to be a lycanthrope would be because of the danger they pose to an entire city. Vampires don't have uncontrollable transformations but can go feral if they go without blood for far too long. If a vampire keeps feeding either on the willing on or the sleeping or on a thrall. Then they can be at least civil and live just fine among people. Lycanthropy is unpredictable and might affect everyone differently and their is not stability or many methods for werewolves to keep themselves in check. If you were a town guard, would you rather have vampires living in your city or Lycanthropes? Vampires can blend in and still act like normal citizens so long as they find ways not to draw attention without being much of a threat to the populace other then stealing their blood. A Werewolf can also blend in and no outright signs of it but when they go off one of two things could happen they do what Sinding did to that little girl. Or worse go on a killing rampage. Its obvious the town guard would rather have the vampire living among them then the werewolf that is on a path of complete rampage. A smart werewolf of course would lock themselves away add in sound proofing to prevent howls from being heard. When they are forced into form. Sometimes they cannot make it and well I can imagine the legion has seen this enough to know how bad werewolves are and how serious threat the werewolves pose which is why they use silver swords to help them against such threats including vampires and ghosts and wraiths and wilowisps that might have a resistance to normal weaponry. To the point just being infected by it is grounds for execution.

bearbelly

Thevampirenight wrote: »

bearbelly wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Okay here is how I see this. Maybe all classes could get a skill that would be illegal to use. Vampires as they are not nearly as dangerous as werewolves well they are dangeorus just not to an entire city full of people maybe some of them. Given if they can control it or cover it up. They shouldn't be given a bounty for stage four.

That logic is inconsistent.
If a vampire shouldn't be given a bounty for Stage 4, then a werewolf shouldn't be given a bounty just for transforming.
Nobody gets hurt in the process of a transformation.

Just like a vampire simply standing around being at Stage 4 isn't causing anyone any harm, a werewolf doesn't cause harm simply by transforming. So if you don't believe a vampire should earn a bounty for being at Stage 4, then a werewolf shouldn't be given a bounty just for the act of transforming.

Both already receive bounties if they feed on or attack innocents.


I do agree, in order to be consistent across the board, that if a necromancer is going to be penalized for raising the dead within town limits, then both vampires and werewolves should get a bounty for either entering town at Stage 4 or transforming in town.

Otherwise, nobody should get a bounty if they aren't actually harming innocent folk.

Well here is how more dangerous a lycanthrope can be then a standard vampire. A vampire wiithout an essense drain attack, like oblvion vampires. Would be at a 3 or four. Skyrim vampires would be at a 5 or six and I would place eso vampires at a 4 or 5, vampire lord form would be at a ten or 13 but they are so very rare. But a werewolf form would be at a 15 or 20 in terms of how much damage they could do especially if a pack full of them started mass murdering everyone. Sure they can be driven off or even killed. I think this is how the imperial legion might see it. As bad as vampires are. Maybe one of the reasons why they are not hunted out of Cyrodiil could have been they patrolled the borders keeping other vampire clans out and maybe even keeping out lycanthropes. Given the legion has a policy if your infected you have to report in for execution. They take Lycanthropy extremely seriously. As for why it shouldt be a crime to be a lycanthrope would be because of the danger they pose to an entire city. Vampires don't have uncontrollable transformations but can go feral if they go without blood for far too long. If a vampire keeps feeding either on the willing on or the sleeping or on a thrall. Then they can be at least civil and live just fine among people. Lycanthropy is unpredictable and might affect everyone differently and their is not stability or many methods for werewolves to keep themselves in check. If you were a town guard, would you rather have vampires living in your city or Lycanthropes? Vampires can blend in and still act like normal citizens so long as they find ways not to draw attention without being much of a threat to the populace other then stealing their blood. A Werewolf can also blend in and no outright signs of it but when they go off one of two things could happen they do what Sinding did to that little girl. Or worse go on a killing rampage. Its obvious the town guard would rather have the vampire living among them then the werewolf that is on a path of complete rampage. A smart werewolf of course would lock themselves away add in sound proofing to prevent howls from being heard. When they are forced into form. Sometimes they cannot make it and well I can imagine the legion has seen this enough to know how bad werewolves are and how serious threat the werewolves pose which is why they use silver swords to help them against such threats including vampires and ghosts and wraiths and wilowisps that might have a resistance to normal weaponry. To the point just being infected by it is grounds for execution.

You completely missed my point.

I wasn't talking about potential damage that certainly can be done by a werewolf when they choose to do so.

I was talking about actual damage done. And a werewolf doesn't inflict harm simply through the act of transforming.
I can CHOOSE to transform, but then I can just stand there, or even run through town, and nobody will come to harm unless I actually attack.

Lycanthropy is NOT unpredictable in this game. I have absolute control over WHEN I transform; it doesn't happen randomly, out of my control. Nor can I spread the disease en masse if I do happen to decide to make a buffet of my neighbors. I can only turn one person every seven days at a Shrine well outside any town, and I only do that if someone has asked me to bite them.
I'm not an uncontrollable scourge.

Could I be, if I so chose? Certainly. But that same potential exists for vampires if they choose.
I don't quite get why you continue to differentiate between the two in that regard.
Bottom line, both vampires and werewolves can be a danger to an entire city.
If they choose.


So why should I receive a bounty if I simply transform, but haven't attacked an innocent, if the vampire standing next to me at Stage 4 is just standing there as well, but he doesn't get a bounty?

Thevampirenight

bearbelly wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

bearbelly wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Okay here is how I see this. Maybe all classes could get a skill that would be illegal to use. Vampires as they are not nearly as dangerous as werewolves well they are dangeorus just not to an entire city full of people maybe some of them. Given if they can control it or cover it up. They shouldn't be given a bounty for stage four.

That logic is inconsistent.
If a vampire shouldn't be given a bounty for Stage 4, then a werewolf shouldn't be given a bounty just for transforming.
Nobody gets hurt in the process of a transformation.

Just like a vampire simply standing around being at Stage 4 isn't causing anyone any harm, a werewolf doesn't cause harm simply by transforming. So if you don't believe a vampire should earn a bounty for being at Stage 4, then a werewolf shouldn't be given a bounty just for the act of transforming.

Both already receive bounties if they feed on or attack innocents.


I do agree, in order to be consistent across the board, that if a necromancer is going to be penalized for raising the dead within town limits, then both vampires and werewolves should get a bounty for either entering town at Stage 4 or transforming in town.

Otherwise, nobody should get a bounty if they aren't actually harming innocent folk.

Well here is how more dangerous a lycanthrope can be then a standard vampire. A vampire wiithout an essense drain attack, like oblvion vampires. Would be at a 3 or four. Skyrim vampires would be at a 5 or six and I would place eso vampires at a 4 or 5, vampire lord form would be at a ten or 13 but they are so very rare. But a werewolf form would be at a 15 or 20 in terms of how much damage they could do especially if a pack full of them started mass murdering everyone. Sure they can be driven off or even killed. I think this is how the imperial legion might see it. As bad as vampires are. Maybe one of the reasons why they are not hunted out of Cyrodiil could have been they patrolled the borders keeping other vampire clans out and maybe even keeping out lycanthropes. Given the legion has a policy if your infected you have to report in for execution. They take Lycanthropy extremely seriously. As for why it shouldt be a crime to be a lycanthrope would be because of the danger they pose to an entire city. Vampires don't have uncontrollable transformations but can go feral if they go without blood for far too long. If a vampire keeps feeding either on the willing on or the sleeping or on a thrall. Then they can be at least civil and live just fine among people. Lycanthropy is unpredictable and might affect everyone differently and their is not stability or many methods for werewolves to keep themselves in check. If you were a town guard, would you rather have vampires living in your city or Lycanthropes? Vampires can blend in and still act like normal citizens so long as they find ways not to draw attention without being much of a threat to the populace other then stealing their blood. A Werewolf can also blend in and no outright signs of it but when they go off one of two things could happen they do what Sinding did to that little girl. Or worse go on a killing rampage. Its obvious the town guard would rather have the vampire living among them then the werewolf that is on a path of complete rampage. A smart werewolf of course would lock themselves away add in sound proofing to prevent howls from being heard. When they are forced into form. Sometimes they cannot make it and well I can imagine the legion has seen this enough to know how bad werewolves are and how serious threat the werewolves pose which is why they use silver swords to help them against such threats including vampires and ghosts and wraiths and wilowisps that might have a resistance to normal weaponry. To the point just being infected by it is grounds for execution.

You completely missed my point.

I wasn't talking about potential damage that certainly can be done by a werewolf when they choose to do so.

I was talking about actual damage done. And a werewolf doesn't inflict harm simply through the act of transforming.
I can CHOOSE to transform, but then I can just stand there, or even run through town, and nobody will come to harm unless I actually attack.

Lycanthropy is NOT unpredictable in this game. I have absolute control over WHEN I transform; it doesn't happen randomly, out of my control. Nor can I spread the disease en masse if I do happen to decide to make a buffet of my neighbors. I can only turn one person every seven days at a Shrine well outside any town, and I only do that if someone has asked me to bite them.
I'm not an uncontrollable scourge.

Could I be, if I so chose? Certainly. But that same potential exists for vampires if they choose.
I don't quite get why you continue to differentiate between the two in that regard.
Bottom line, both vampires and werewolves can be a danger to an entire city.
If they choose.


So why should I receive a bounty if I simply transform, but haven't attacked an innocent, if the vampire standing next to me at Stage 4 is just standing there as well, but he doesn't get a bounty?

Well all the players get their lycanthropy basically through a bite from a werewolf and then directly by Hircine himself as they cannot take the normal route of becoming a werewolf because they are a vestige. Hircine granted you the ability to control it. Most werewolves besides the companions and maybe some werewolf pacts transform at random either by anger or looking at what looks like prey or the moonlight or the mooncycle. The guards and citizens wouldn't know that you can control it or are randomly transforming. Some are able to control themselves more then others but they would still have the blood lust and at some point have to give into the hunt. Companions through a deal gained a form of lycanthropy. But in return they had to serve Hircine after death and go to his hunting grounds but they were able to control their bloodlust.

This is from the usep with the section on lycanthropy.
The circumstances of the transformation seem to vary wildly between individuals (or perhaps between strains of lycanthropy). Some lycanthropes transform monthly,[7] or even nightly.[6] Others seem able to choose the times of their transformations, even able to give up transformation entirely.[11] The strength of the bloodlust also varies, with some individuals experiencing an uncontrollable desire to kill, and others able to maintain nearly complete control during a transformation. In the worst cases, an individual who lacks the willpower to control a transformation may go feral, becoming little more than a mindless beast.
Hircine can grant more power and control over lycanthropy to favored worshipers. This is usually done via a specific artifact such as a ring (see below). Additionally, those favored by Hircine may be granted the ability to transform entirely into a beast rather than a were-creature (e.g. into a wolf rather than a werewolf)

Vampirism is more predictable in a way Lycanthropy is not. Most likely only those favored by Hircine or have a pact with him or use of his ring can fully control their transformations. Others that have not gotten it by Hircine by a pact made with him or are not favored by him have to deal with the sideeffects of what the curse have done to them and that in itself can manifest in so many ways of unpredictability as to what causes them to transform. The ones that turn because of the mooncycle like a full moon are the lucky ones those that transform do to being near possible prey or everynight get it the worst.

russelmmendoza

Yes, Vampire and Werewolf skills should be illegal.

Kill those damned monsters on sight.
With extreme prejudice.
In every human settlement.
Alliance war should be halted to hunt them down.
Burn them to ashes and send it to oblivion.
Specially the necromancers.
Hate those dead mongering ***.
Burn them all.

Metafae

Yes, Vampire and Werewolf skills should be illegal.

Being a vampire is not exactly illegal though. There are many upstanding citizens that are vampires and all they have to deal with is other non-vampires treating them badly because they're afraid of them.

Though if you turned into a swarm of bats in a town, that will startle people and you might get a telling off as you get told by guards in skyrim not to shout inside cities.

VDoom1

Yes, Vampire and Werewolf skills should be illegal.

A little bit torn. It's so much fun running into Riften with a werewolf army. xD Loools.

But alright in the spirit of lore friendliness...yahh alright. As for vampires, yup definitely. Considering their more murdering nature. Also it doesn't make much sense for werewolves to be able to run into a city freely. From the guards and citizens perspective it's "omg werewolf attack! :0 RUN!"

Though perhaps there could be exceptions. There are both werewolf and vampire npcs that are "vegetarians", they don't hurt anyone. So why should they be considered criminals then.

But in general yup, both vampires and werewolves should be illegal if abilities are used near a city. A vampire should not get arrested for just walking into a city, that would be unfair. They can't just stop like a werewolf or necromancer.

OmniDo

Yes, Vampire and Werewolf skills should be illegal.

Won't happen.
Not a dev priority.
Immersion is dead because, silly outfits and modern nonsense appropriation.
Move along...

TheShadowScout

Yes, Vampire and Werewolf skills should be illegal.

Metafae wrote: »

Being a vampire is not exactly illegal though.

Ehhhhh...
...depends who you ask.
Followers of Arkay and the eight divines? They will tell you to burn the unclean spawn of Molag Bal! Why do you think Count Ravenwatch needs to hide his nature?
Or take all the other encounters with "non-evil" vampires in the rivenspire questings... every time there is the prompt question, "Slay the monster" and only the player decision spares their life (Well, that and the fact that the slayings often don't take)
Or the way vampires are depicted in the AD storylines, from the casual hunting of them in grahtwood, to the case in greenshade where we get another look at how non-evil bosmer vampires live in exile...

Might not be -exactly- illegal. But is still "kill on sight" in most peoples minds, yes? So... only illegal because noone thought it worth making a law about, as everyone understood that "monsters" need to be slain.

And thus... vampires are hated, hunted and occasionally misunderstood ALL across tamriel. Even places where necromancy is legal (Cyrodillic empire for example) will be far less accepting of vampires (although, just with necromancers, the rulers have no qualms about having a secret weapon in the form of a vampire ally they might shield from villager mobs with torches and pitchforks...)

technohic

Yes, Vampire and Werewolf skills should be illegal.

Yep. I like the idea of the system in general. Dare I say deadra pers, vamps, and werewolves in towns "ruin my immersion "
🤣

Really; it's about the world reacting to you based on who and what you are rather than it being scripted and feel like it doesnt matter. They do a little with this as far as some areas changing after you complete a quest, and NPCs spamming "aren't you the guy that defeated so and such" but guards also should act differently knowing you saved the faction leader of their area and look the other way for minor offenses

With as bland and scripted as it is; that's what makes me treat this largely as a PVP game and everything else is just a means to that end.

Rex-Umbra

Yes, Vampire and Werewolf skills should be illegal.

Yessss

reoskit

This mechinic is stupid and Necromancer skills shouldn't be illegal to begin with.

technohic wrote: »

Dare I say deadra pers, vamps, and werewolves in towns "ruin my immersion "

Petsorc here to say: I would *love* it if everyone else's flappybirds would get out of my face. IMO, my pets should be invisible to everyone except me, people in my group, and people in combat with me.

I'd appreciate the same of everyone else, tyvm. Keep your bear off my writ turn in. Rawr!

(I cannot fix your ww/vamp immersion prob.)

NovaMarx

Yes, Vampire and Werewolf skills should be illegal.

As someone who has both vampire and werewolf characters I find this whole idea intriguing! It would be a nice change of pace to actually have to play differently on those chars than I do on my other ones.

That being said, it should not make the game "unplayable" for vamps and WW. Meaning not everything that is done results in bounties etc. Vampires already face being "hunted" when feeding on people - especially in town settings, as there are guards everywhere - so I don't see how much "worse" it can get for vamps (without it becoming too much of a pain). But WW experience no real danger. I'm not saying it needs to be as extreme as them getting hunted just for transforming or just being in WW form - as that would be a pain regarding sustaining WW form - but maybe certain skills? I dunno, it's pretty tricky to flag something as "illegal" (mechanics wise) for werewolves IMO.

But other than that, I always welcome new mechanics to the game - especially if they add some more immersion and/or different play styles. It makes vets like me (who have been here since the beta days) want to keep playing and even make new characters every once in a while.

StormeReigns

No, Vampire and Werewolf should not be illegal.

Skills that should be inline with Necromancy and cause instant attack on sight and 6.5k bounty each time used in any and all towns.

All defensive abilities
All offensive abilites
All summoning abilities

Cloak (any morph) generates 59.8k bounty each use. And additional 18.7k per 0.01 second while active.

Having ww unmorphed on any ult bar causes 9.5k bounty per 1.5 seconds

WW: berserk morph on bar causes 15.8k bounty every 1 second

WW: Pack morph on bar causes 167.3k bounty every 0.5 seconds

Vampire will accumulated 1g bounty every 87965 minutes.

Aurielle

Yes, Vampire and Werewolf skills should be illegal.

Yes. You know what should also be illegal? Summoning gd DAEDRA in cities. Maybe then I wouldn’t have to compete with Twilight Matriarchs flapping in my face to turn in my writs!

RaddlemanNumber7

Yes, Vampire and Werewolf skills should be illegal.

Also daedra summons, warden bears and mime artists.

Wolfpaw

This mechinic is stupid and Necromancer skills shouldn't be illegal to begin with.

The Necro restrictions will be removed down the road...just marketing hype for a lil depth on a new class.