Sunspire Senche in the Crown Store - Please don't do this!

Iluvrien

VaranisArano wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Where was this backlash when ZOS added motifs to the crown store and made the in-game versions extra grindy* to get?

The response those of us who complained got from people was “well, it’s just cosmetic! You can still get it in the game! You don’t have to buy it if you don’t want to!”

Can’t say I’m surprised that ZOS is now trying it in other spheres of the game considering how previous incarnations went down.

[*then upped the grind again with Welkynar]

I dunno about you, but I remember a pretty large complaint thread about Welkynar.

It didnt do any good.

The time to stop it would have been at Glass.

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO

I wounder what would be people's reaction if they started selling in Crown store Dro M'athra skin with an extra blue vinyl on it to be classified as different.

m2rc

There's got to be a suitable reward for players who complete hard content at the hardest level. Not only is this 'reward' ugly, but also conveniently achievable through microtransactions. Completely removes the incentive to complete the achievements associated with Sunspire. This isn't good for the game, and I hope they learn from this mistake.

SydneyGrey

I don't see the issue. If you complete the trial you can get it free, otherwise you have to pay for it. Sounds good to me.

TheTwistedRune

These mounts are different. But people are worried that others who are not paying attention might confuse the two? And people are calling this a problem? LOL

If it bothers peoples egos that much why not shout in chat every time you zone letting people know that you have the achievement version.

That way people will know you are best and watch in awe as you ride past...*roll eyes*.

VaranisArano

Iluvrien wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Where was this backlash when ZOS added motifs to the crown store and made the in-game versions extra grindy* to get?

The response those of us who complained got from people was “well, it’s just cosmetic! You can still get it in the game! You don’t have to buy it if you don’t want to!”

Can’t say I’m surprised that ZOS is now trying it in other spheres of the game considering how previous incarnations went down.

[*then upped the grind again with Welkynar]

I dunno about you, but I remember a pretty large complaint thread about Welkynar.

It didnt do any good.

The time to stop it would have been at Glass.

Since Glass is Crafting Motif 16, that should give you an idea of how long this particular barn door has been open, if we're complaining that the horses have escaped, now.

Personally, I think the actual problems are more recent than that, starting with the DLC dungeon motifs, when ZOS decided to monetize those and mess around with the release dates and the like.

Svenja

I'll try to explain my thoughts a bit more.
I run around with the tick-tock-title. I connect that title with our teamwork and great effort, and the great feeling of accomplishment. We were in vHoF for almost four months, three evenings a week, we argued, we disagreed on tactics, we wiped for hours and hours and hours, but we didn't give up, we changed gear-sets and abilities, tactics, and in the end, we managed to achieve it. The sense of accomplishment was so great and I was/am so proud of the group.
It will be the same with the Godslayer achievement in Sunspire. I would even have used the mount, because it would have been earned with great teamwork.
With the crownstore version coming up, the Godslayer title will be all I am using. I don't want to ride past other players and have them think "LUL that girl was dumb enough to pay 1000 Crown Gems for that ugly mount" because no one can spot the difference. I don't want something like that connected with the teamwork and effort we put into this as a group.

Myrkgrav

Lame. There has to be some kind of incentive to keep playing the game and getting better at it, and doing this doesn't foster that kind of motivation. And I'm someone that will open my wallet for the dumbest reskins.

YaYaPineapple

I think some of you are looking at this backwards.

You think they are putting a Trial reward in the Crown Store... but they are really making a Crown Store mount available for free if you get all the Trial achievements.

Its a Crown Store mount cosmetic that you have an opportunity to get for free in game instead of having to pay real life money for it. Isn't that what people want? More Crown Store cosmetics to be also acquirable in game?

Isn't that what alllll the posts complain about every time there is a cool new mount in the Crown Store for X amount of crowns/gems?

Swiftfox_Bouncyface

YaYaPineapple wrote: »

I think some of you are looking at this backwards.

You think they are putting a Trial reward in the Crown Store... but they are really making a Crown Store mount available for free if you get all the Trial achievements.

Its a Crown Store mount cosmetic that you have an opportunity to get for free in game instead of having to pay real life money for it. Isn't that what people want? More Crown Store cosmetics to be also acquirable in game?

Isn't that what alllll the posts complain about every time there is a cool new mount in the Crown Store for X amount of crowns/gems?

DovahkiinHeart

Minyassa wrote: »

I don't see the problem. One has gold tack, one has leather tack. One you have to spend a buttload of crowns to get, the other you can earn and not spend a single crown. So not only do you get a mount without paying crowns for it but you have the satisfaction of having earned it, and it's got prettier tack. What is the problem?

The problem is that people care more about what their neighbors have, rather than feeling proud of their own accomplishments. That just breeds unhappiness imo. It's like being mad at a low income person because they won the lottery by cashing in while you're still the head of a successful company, and you worked your butt off to get there. You still get the recognition, the pride of knowing you earned everything you have, and the fact that people KNOW this too, but you're still salty because you feel threatened somehow by what other people do, that doesn't even affect you.

They get a golden prettier looking saddle and it even says that in the item description so the distinction is pointed out and they still aren't happy because god forbid only a few people deserve to have nice things in a video game.

Recently got the EG helm from vBRF with a non-elite group of fellow guildies. We took over half a day, died over what felt like a hundred times, traded tips, pots, observations on certain strats that seem to work, died some more, ported out to respec some skills, change cp, got frustrated but remained civil, learned how to get gud at our roles, learned how to adapt to cover for each other when someone died so someone can get a rez, sharpened our timing, weaving, and positioning, and finally after expecting another wipe, we cleared it.

Even tho the monster set is getting slightly changed, we didn't care. Because our group got stronger, more coordinated, first got chewed up, then spat out, but with each wipe we learned a ton we thought we knew, we're forced to seriously evaluate our builds and figure out how to improve, and in the end, it was the experience, pride, and thrill of conquering the dungeon that mattered the most.

Then I learned that the EG helm was available at the vendors. There wasn't ANY extra 'differences' between the one from the dungeon and the one from the vendor, no perfected or nonperfected. Was I upset by it? I couldn't care less. Because my team and I *know* that we EARNED it and our titles. Granted, you can argue that a vet dungeon is easier than a vet hm/no death/speedrun trial but the fact stands that none of us went into the dungeon with super 'optimal' BIS builds, we didn't get carried by anyone but ourselves, and we still persisted and prevailed. So this whole argument with the Sunspire senche just doesn't make sense to me.

But what do I know? Am I supposed to care how other strangers play the game or what they do with their free time?

karekiz

WTB titles/skins/mounts for "X" gold.

SELLING RUNS IS HORRIBLE!

ZoS literally sells these things:

But they are a company!

But seriously:

No they shouldn't sell the same thing. I like my fang lair personality because it took me going through fang lair to get it. I like having emotes that not everyone does. Sounds silly, but its a game with multiple players on it.

For example Epics in <older> EQ1 were a novelty because they were not only very good items, but very visually specific. Similar in Classic WoW if you saw "X" player with either some set or mount. Selling an obvious cloned items ruins that experience and it IS something people want. Older Classic games wouldn't have the following they do if "nobody cared" about that and wanted every thing sold in the store.

They can easily make a new recolored kitty for this expansion. Its just cheaper and lazier to just use the same for both.

Should skins/mount rewards be available for casual players? Of course. Should they be clones of raid/dungeons? Nope. Should both have to work for them? Of course. I think you should get a mount for 100% a chapter zone <Especially with the new "finder". Fill it out get a reward>. Same for skins.

But to defend this? Its just telling me they should have not bothered in the first place because they missed the point.

angelncelestine

Sadly this kind of thing has been happening for awhile. Not necessarily exactly like this mount reskin, but this doesn't surprise me. I think back to the rewards from Bloodroot. I think originally it was suppose to be the skin that sits on the crown store right now. It got replaced with that butt ugly mask. Then shortly after they released similar in crates. Then you had the AS reskin. A big bummer was when they started releasing the DLC dungeon motifs in the crown store the same day as they are released in game. That took away from in game value of those. Look at the skin from vBRP. Eww I have never used it. Makes your toon look like you have some funky skin condition. Then they release two skins in crates that are much better. It wouldn't even surprise me if they eventually put the indrik in the crown store. Many of us don't like it, but I doubt they will stop doing these sort of things anytime soon. They are making loads of money off of this stuff.

Nagashira

i was so hyped for this... but never mind now i guess... the mount shld be exclusive.. make the store mount an other color! or better make the raid mount have special effects like footfalls and aura! and the store mount not.

Perwulf

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

If this will go live, this will be a really lame move from ZOS.

They've been doing lame moves for a long time and nobody bats an eye.

atlgirl29_ESO

ManwithBeard from another thread about this said it best.. "It's the same mount, the data mine didn't have the name as it is at release. Data mines do not represent anything but possibilities. Data mines are unofficial/incomplete/trolls from the game files. They are not patch notes. They are not statements from the devs. There is zero indication that the Sunspire mount will be available in the crown store."

Please stop with "the sky is falling"....

Cheezits94

@atlgirl29_ESO
Clearly no indication AT ALL that one of them is purchased in the crown store. Apart from the "purchased in the crown store" statement below it. And the actual raid one being described as a "variant" of the other one.

RogueShark

Lame. People just gets done praising zos for adding a new unique reward for the hardest Sunspire content and they throw the same reward in the crown store.
Wonder if/when they're going to start selling other challenger stuff too.

Cheezits94

Svenja wrote: »

I'll try to explain my thoughts a bit more.
I run around with the tick-tock-title. I connect that title with our teamwork and great effort, and the great feeling of accomplishment. We were in vHoF for almost four months, three evenings a week, we argued, we disagreed on tactics, we wiped for hours and hours and hours, but we didn't give up, we changed gear-sets and abilities, tactics, and in the end, we managed to achieve it. The sense of accomplishment was so great and I was/am so proud of the group.
It will be the same with the Godslayer achievement in Sunspire. I would even have used the mount, because it would have been earned with great teamwork.
With the crownstore version coming up, the Godslayer title will be all I am using. I don't want to ride past other players and have them think "LUL that girl was dumb enough to pay 1000 Crown Gems for that ugly mount" because no one can spot the difference. I don't want something like that connected with the teamwork and effort we put into this as a group.

Thank you for this.
I don't even raid on that level, but this is exactly why I don't think it is right to put this in the store. Who wants a microtransaction being connected to their awesome teamwork? And if the mount is unreasonably priced, people will for sure think that you are just a crownstore whale if you ride around on it.
"OMG who is stupid enough to pay 6000 crowns for this fugly thing? That player over there clearly is. Haha." Pretty much sums it up perfectly.

thomas1970b16_ESO

I like it. All can have access to it regardless of the time they have to play the game.

adriant1978

Due to the FOMO sales tactics that ZOS are wedded to, the Crown Store one will probably be up for all of 5 minutes before it's retired and then the trial will go back to being the only way to get it.

Hyperion616

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Whats the point of doing hard achievements if the next random dude that never has seen a trial from the inside just swipes the creditcard and literally has the same reward.
Rewarding people for a great achievement that gets nullified by the *** crownstore. Not a fan.....

The point of doing hard challenges is just that, so you can say "we did something *** hard together with like minded individuals". Not so you can flaunt around exclusivity over other peoples heads about how you unlocked a mount in a video game.

I will never understand this mentality from people, just the idea of being able to clear a raid with others should be the reward in an of it's self. The thrill of being with a bunch of other people accomplishing something together is the joy of playing games, but that's not the case. There Always seems to be at the core root of the problem kids who Have to have that exclusivity to dangle over others.

Here's the way it works, Congrats you won that mount doing something in game that was hard. Give your self a pat on the back job well done.

Now a version of that mount maybe offered up in the store for purchase, great. Now people who wish to spend the money can have something similar but not quite as good.

Heelie

DovahkiinHeart wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

I don't see the problem. One has gold tack, one has leather tack. One you have to spend a buttload of crowns to get, the other you can earn and not spend a single crown. So not only do you get a mount without paying crowns for it but you have the satisfaction of having earned it, and it's got prettier tack. What is the problem?

The problem is that people care more about what their neighbors have, rather than feeling proud of their own accomplishments. That just breeds unhappiness imo. It's like being mad at a low income person because they won the lottery by cashing in while you're still the head of a successful company, and you worked your butt off to get there. You still get the recognition, the pride of knowing you earned everything you have, and the fact that people KNOW this too, but you're still salty because you feel threatened somehow by what other people do, that doesn't even affect you.

They get a golden prettier looking saddle and it even says that in the item description so the distinction is pointed out and they still aren't happy because god forbid only they get to enjoy something.

Recently got the EG helm from vBRF with a non-elite group of fellow guildies. We took over half a day, died over what felt like a hundred times, traded tips, pots, observations on certain strats that seem to work, died some more, ported out to respec some skills, change cp, got frustrated but remained civil, learned how to get gud at our roles, learned how to adapt to cover for each other when someone died so someone can get a rez, sharpened our timing, weaving, and positioning, and finally after expecting another wipe, we cleared it.

Even tho the monster set is getting slightly changed, we didn't care. Because our group got stronger, more coordinated, first got chewed up, then spat out, but with each wipe we learned a ton we thought we knew, we're forced to seriously evaluate our builds and figure out how to improve, and in the end, it was the experience, pride, and thrill of conquering the dungeon that mattered the most.

Then I learned that the EG helm was available at the vendors. There wasn't ANY extra 'differences' between the one from the dungeon and the one from the vendor, no perfected or nonperfected. Was I upset by it? I couldn't care less. Because my team and I *know* that we EARNED it and our titles. Granted, you can argue that a vet dungeon is easier than a vet hm/no death/speedrun trial but the fact stands that none of us went into the dungeon with super 'optimal' BIS builds, we didn't get carried by anyone but ourselves, and we still persisted and prevailed. So this whole argument with the Sunspire senche just doesn't make sense to me.

But what do I know? Am I supposed to care how other strangers play the game or what they do with their free time?

There is one difference here, you might have spent a couple of hours getting your earthgore helmet. My bet is 4-5 hours which is still a lot.

As someone who has a pretty good idea of where the end game guilds are at, my bet is that around 5-6 guilds on PC EU and PC NA have a chance of getting this mount within 3 months of the elsweyr release. I think the earliest will be around 10 weeks in. Now these guilds raid 3-4 times a week for about 3-4 hours, this means by the end every single one of those groups will have spent at least 100+ hours. "150 hours with PTS training". This is just the time spent in concentrated raiding to get this achievement, there are also the hours preparing gear, farming potions and gold to afford raiding. "carry runs in some cases"

You're comparing apples to oranges in terms of effort. Even if you worked in Uganda at a $1 wage you would be able to afford the crown store mount. So saying we should be happy to get it for "free" is an insult.

Hyperion616

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Nobody will notice the color of the leather. People see a ice senche with orange feet. That is all they notice. And literally perfecting a run in sunspire to get this will be hard.
That trial is is hard. The time trial of 30 minutes atm will be a very very very close call, not death will be very very hard, since bosses have a few ultra hard hitting attacks.
So you try to get there for weeks or possibly months until you see the achievement mount. When random bob here just spends his nans medicine money.
And nobody will even notice the difference and tell bob how awesome he is doing the sunspire achievement or the raiders that tried for months will get laughed at because got it from the crownstore.
The difference is so minimal. You can barely make out which one is which.

If something like this is tied to a achievemnt as reward. It should stay that. And not get devalued by greedy business practices ruining it for every player that actually want to work torwards something.
It will be easier to ask your nan for the money you need than actually play for it in the game.

“Random Bob” is the one consistently paying for each and every Crown Store bauble that appears during the months and months those Trial-grinders are working on unlocking that mount. Who is more worthy of a reward in this scenario? Why do you presume that just because Bob has decent disposable income, which he’s earned, that he’s somehow less-entitled to have a fancy mount than other players? Why do you even care? Achievements should be done for the personal challenge and thrill of conquering a seemingly insurmountable task. People that are dedicated Trials-enthusiasts get it for free, too, so what’s the complaint?

What makes you think the hardcore players don't spend anything. They buy just as much if not more crowns.
Nobody is entitled to anything. But what is the point of making things that are an achievement, a sense of pride to finally have gotten done worth nothing because this generation wants everything with the least amount of effort and instantly. It is sad.
What is so wrong with having something unique when you worked for it?
This is why we can't have nice things anymore.

"The Pride" is completing the achievement with other players, congrats man you did it nice work. Exclusivity is a games worst enemy. You start wanting to exclude a lot crap and that's a quick way to turn away your mass audience of players from your game.

So what, some may say, well that mass audience is what makes up the bulk of these games. Not some hard core person who's sole concern is exclusivity and winning a nifty mount or set of armor so they can flaunt it around other people.

Milchbart

Just a little off-topic real life experience from me:

I did some Ironman triathlons. I've trained many years very hard for that achievement.
My reward was a shirt with a "Finisher" print on it which somehow equals the mount from the trial.

Now I saw a homeless guy in town wearing the same shirt.
I know that those shirts were spent as a donation to the homeless shelter.

That experience did not lessen the value of my own shirt and I still wear it now and then.
So if I'd have the mount from the trial I would still use it even if some "random Bob" would have the mount from the store ...

Solid_Metal

agree, but again, this is really if ZoS catter to the ego of the player

Crown > cheap and easy way to get mount > mount too similar from hardcore trial reward > people mistakenly thought that the mount is the one from crown > ego hurt

basically that

BrianLovesLisa

So the elitist cry about being able to get something for free, when they would do the achievement anyways? Or is it because they wont be able to sell it for stupid amounts of gold, because ZOS is also selling it to block that? Thank you, Zos for making an awesome mount available in both the game and crown store, no need to listen to the cry babies that just want to sell it for gold, My family will gladly buy it from the crown store.

DovahkiinHeart

Heelie wrote: »

You're comparing apples to oranges in terms of effort. Even if you worked in Uganda at a $1 wage you would be able to afford the crown store mount. So saying we should be happy to get it for "free" is an insult.

And I should care about what other people do because why...? Offense is taken, not given.

In the end, ZOS isn't likely to change anything. It's not impacting the technical quality of the game. It's not preventing players from being able to play the game. It's a cosmetic issue, and while they have fixed some cosmetic issues before, that's usually more because something was not inline or was clipping through something else. So demanding a change or threatening to stop playing or not buying Elsewyr isn't going to make much of an impact in the grand scheme of things. The forum base is not reflective of the entire community of all players, as some believe.

Svenja

I don't want anyone to think that I was dumb enough to simply toss ~50€ for a crownstore mount at ZOS with a simple wave with my credit card, when in reality it was great teamwork with a coordinated group over the course of what will be several months.
I simply won't use either of the mounts if one is up for sale in the shop, the Godslayer title will be enough for me now.

I just don't understand how they dare to say they "want to give their endgame raiders something special" (at least that#s what was said on ESO Live a few weeks ago) if it's just a minimal reskin of a crownstore item with differences barely noticeable. Yes, it's marketing, but rather don't say anything at all, then. Or say as it is: "We give you a nice crownstore item for free, others have to spend crowns for it, but you can earn it ingame, too."

ShadowProc

The PVE crowd is too funny. You wanted easy mode rewards coming into pvp a few weeks ago but then get all sorts of upset about making it too easy to obtain mounts by paying? Lmao. So entertaining.