Rate Necromancer PvE self-sustain compared to the other 5 classes.

Evil_Rurouni

There's a modest amount of talk about Necromancer PVE DPS and potential PvP performance, but I haven't heard anything about its sustain in this forum.
Dare say I'm not the only console player who'd like to hear about it.

I've read about the skills and passives, obviously, but that's not the same as actually getting to play it.

Icy_Waffles

You created a poll when all you needed to do was ask a question.

Evil_Rurouni

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

You created a poll when all you needed to do was ask a question.

Actually, no.
If I'd just asked a question, people would just say "its good" or "its bad".
That's useless.

Good or bad compared to classes we've already played is actually useful.

ecru

it's hard to judge necro sustain because the class is broken with one of it's sustain passives on pts right now

Evil_Rurouni

ecru wrote: »

it's hard to judge necro sustain because the class is broken with one of it's sustain passives on pts right now

Ah, that might explain the lack of discussion about it.
Thanks.

EDIT: which one is busted?

susmitds

There is a difference between Stamina sustain and Magicka sustain.
There is a difference between PvE sustain and PvP sustain.
There is a difference between DPS sustain and Tank sustain.

Needs more clarification.

Ankael07

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

it's hard to judge necro sustain because the class is broken with one of it's sustain passives on pts right now

Ah, that might explain the lack of discussion about it.
Thanks.

EDIT: which one is busted?

Reusable parts is broken. When a pet dies it triggers global cooldown which interrupts your skill casting or prevents you from it

Evil_Rurouni

susmitds wrote: »

There is a difference between Stamina sustain and Magicka sustain.
There is a difference between PvE sustain and PvP sustain.
There is a difference between DPS sustain and Tank sustain.

Needs more clarification.

Fair point.

Lets go worst case scenario:
PvE sustain against a bullet (arrow?) sponge boss when there's no trash mobs to proc the "death gleaning" passive and you don't have group support.

Again, in comparison to the other 5 classes.
They'll all have some sustain issues without being fed orbs etc, but I'd like a measure of how bad it'd be compared to the classes I've played already.

Sidenote: I'd not expect there to be much difference between stamcro and magcro because the passives are mirrored.
There's the mystic syphon skill morph that favours mag sustain, but that's corpse dependant as best as I can tell.

Excelsus

Necromancer has the fifth best sustain of the 6 classes.

Ive been primarily playing tank on the pts. I play Warden, Dk and NB tank on live. Necro has great self-heals and ultgen, better than NB. I actually had a lot of fun soloing world bosses on necro tank. However their resource sustain is bad, as bad as Nightblade tank on live if not worse. I was using Deep Thoughts more than I wanted to. Necro Tank as is will need to be argonian or imperial unless you're a masochist.

Olupajmibanan

Necromancer has the third best sustain of the 6 classes.

Have you played a bow/bow necro? Highest DPS out of all classes on a bow/bow, and on top of that sustain comparable to Warden and Nightblade. Not even mentioning the privilegue to stand in front of healer and loose little dps.

Evil_Rurouni

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Have you played a bow/bow necro? Highest DPS out of all classes on a bow/bow, and on top of that sustain comparable to Warden and Nightblade. Not even mentioning the privilegue to stand in front of healer and loose little dps.

Thanks for the feedback.

Bow/Bow PvE stamcro was the first thing I thought of when I saw the necromancers skillset actually.
Ranged PvE stam builds are usually gimped by a lack of ranged stam DoTs, Stamcro looks like being the first class with enough class stam DoTs to bypass the issue.

The problem with that is bow heavy attacks suck almost as much as inferno heavies do, so I'm hoping to avoid having to use them.
Hence the concern about class sustain.

Hopefully there'll be more testing and discussion regarding necromancer now its passives are fixed.
Kinda wish I'd waited 24 hours to make this poll now.

satanio

Necromancer has the third best sustain of the 6 classes.

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Have you played a bow/bow necro? Highest DPS out of all classes on a bow/bow, and on top of that sustain comparable to Warden and Nightblade. Not even mentioning the privilegue to stand in front of healer and loose little dps.

Thanks for the feedback.

Bow/Bow PvE stamcro was the first thing I thought of when I saw the necromancers skillset actually.
Ranged PvE stam builds are usually gimped by a lack of ranged stam DoTs, Stamcro looks like being the first class with enough class stam DoTs to bypass the issue.

The problem with that is bow heavy attacks suck almost as much as inferno heavies do, so I'm hoping to avoid having to use them.
Hence the concern about class sustain.

Hopefully there'll be more testing and discussion regarding necromancer now its passives are fixed.
Kinda wish I'd waited 24 hours to make this poll now.

Well, he is saying that bow/bow Necro, if builded correctly, does not need any heavy attack throughout the rotation and still hit ~47k solo on 3min skeleton (no fracture, no berserk). (result from yesterday, and I'm not the best parser in the world, so actually I would say they can hit above 50k solo).
Anyways, you can and probably should balance class sustain with race, food/monster set and absorb stamina enchant. Redguard? Use bi-stat stam/hp. Orc? You might wanne use camoran & stormfist/absorb stamina enchant. Khajiit can make it only with camoran and stormfist. List goes on but I guess you get what I'm saying.
Also rotation might vary from the "sustain" point of view - on Redguard Necroarcher might be ok to use snipe as spammable while Orc and khajiit would be better with Venom Skull.


Honestly, necro is the best class out of all for ranger archetype. Can be played with dynamic or static rotation. He won't suffer of any further snipe nerfs (that will surely come, bcs PVP) - it has its own ranged stam spammable.
It's a dream come true.

Colecovision

necro gets 2k health free. So use the sustain food most of us can't use anymore. The people complaining about necro sustain are building 100% for damage and then crying about it.

JondarKorric

Necromancer has the fifth best sustain of the 6 classes.

Colecovision wrote: »

necro gets 2k health free. So use the sustain food most of us can't use anymore. The people complaining about necro sustain are building 100% for damage and then crying about it.

not anymore they don't. the 2k hp was nerfed a few patches ago

Anhedonie

Necromancer has the fifth best sustain of the 6 classes.

Colecovision wrote: »

necro gets 2k health free. So use the sustain food most of us can't use anymore. The people complaining about necro sustain are building 100% for damage and then crying about it.

You might want to catch up on the patch notes, pal.

Evil_Rurouni

satanio wrote: »

Well, he is saying that bow/bow Necro, if builded correctly, does not need any heavy attack throughout the rotation and still hit ~47k solo on 3min skeleton (no fracture, no berserk). (result from yesterday, and I'm not the best parser in the world, so actually I would say they can hit above 50k solo).
Anyways, you can and probably should balance class sustain with race, food/monster set and absorb stamina enchant. Redguard? Use bi-stat stam/hp. Orc? You might wanne use camoran & stormfist/absorb stamina enchant. Khajiit can make it only with camoran and stormfist. List goes on but I guess you get what I'm saying.
Also rotation might vary from the "sustain" point of view - on Redguard Necroarcher might be ok to use snipe as spammable while Orc and khajiit would be better with Venom Skull.


Honestly, necro is the best class out of all for ranger archetype. Can be played with dynamic or static rotation. He won't suffer of any further snipe nerfs (that will surely come, bcs PVP) - it has its own ranged stam spammable.
It's a dream come true.

Aye, I get what you're saying.
The whole point of making this poll was to get an idea of how much effort I'd have to put into balancing out sustain, compared to how I'm trying to balance out my other 5 stam toons.
Not my first rodeo.

Balancing out my stamblade's sustain? EZ.
Balancing out stamsorc's gawdawful sustain? less so.

Currently debating Orc + lots of sustain aid vs khajiit + bit of sustain aid vs wood elf with no sustain aid.

I'm already planning on race changing my khajiit stamsorc to redguard and I don't want 2 of the same race, so wood elf would be the stand in option for sustain via race.

TBH, I don't think there'd be all that much difference between redguard and wood elf on stamcro anyway, it only runs 2 weapon skills and its spammable is a class skill, so the martial training passive won't be much of a factor.

Colecovision

JondarKorric wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

necro gets 2k health free. So use the sustain food most of us can't use anymore. The people complaining about necro sustain are building 100% for damage and then crying about it.

not anymore they don't. the 2k hp was nerfed a few patches ago

Yikes. Sorry about that. I can see why it got nerfed, but that's quite a hit.

Anhedonie wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

necro gets 2k health free. So use the sustain food most of us can't use anymore. The people complaining about necro sustain are building 100% for damage and then crying about it.

You might want to catch up on the patch notes, pal.

Catch up on the thread, it's already been posted.

Olupajmibanan

Necromancer has the third best sustain of the 6 classes.

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

satanio wrote: »

Well, he is saying that bow/bow Necro, if builded correctly, does not need any heavy attack throughout the rotation and still hit ~47k solo on 3min skeleton (no fracture, no berserk). (result from yesterday, and I'm not the best parser in the world, so actually I would say they can hit above 50k solo).
Anyways, you can and probably should balance class sustain with race, food/monster set and absorb stamina enchant. Redguard? Use bi-stat stam/hp. Orc? You might wanne use camoran & stormfist/absorb stamina enchant. Khajiit can make it only with camoran and stormfist. List goes on but I guess you get what I'm saying.
Also rotation might vary from the "sustain" point of view - on Redguard Necroarcher might be ok to use snipe as spammable while Orc and khajiit would be better with Venom Skull.


Honestly, necro is the best class out of all for ranger archetype. Can be played with dynamic or static rotation. He won't suffer of any further snipe nerfs (that will surely come, bcs PVP) - it has its own ranged stam spammable.
It's a dream come true.

Aye, I get what you're saying.
The whole point of making this poll was to get an idea of how much effort I'd have to put into balancing out sustain, compared to how I'm trying to balance out my other 5 stam toons.
Not my first rodeo.

Balancing out my stamblade's sustain? EZ.
Balancing out stamsorc's gawdawful sustain? less so.

Currently debating Orc + lots of sustain aid vs khajiit + bit of sustain aid vs wood elf with no sustain aid.

I'm already planning on race changing my khajiit stamsorc to redguard and I don't want 2 of the same race, so wood elf would be the stand in option for sustain via race.

TBH, I don't think there'd be all that much difference between redguard and wood elf on stamcro anyway, it only runs 2 weapon skills and its spammable is a class skill, so the martial training passive won't be much of a factor.

Just make sure that you have always active your Skeletal Archer (which gives you 200 flat stamrecovery) and Mortal Coil (which restores 237 stamina per second).

Warden has +12% stam rec and 224 stamina restore per second.
Necromancer has 200 stam rec and 237 stamina restore per second.

From this viewpoint Necro seems to have better sustain, but I can tell from experience, Warden has better sustain if he uses Green Lotus and has it active all the time.

Xogath

Good stuff to know, thanks folks.

Still debating on whether to roll Orc or Redguard for my Stamcro.. but if the sustain isn't too terrible (ie: intelligent play with a couple HAs and you're good) with blue food I'll just go Orc.. I like the non-weapon-related passives anyway. (Gotta go fast for cheap!)

nsmurfer

@Xogath from what i am hearing from most of my guildies as well as most parsers, if khajit is either equating or exceeding Orc dps at 90k DPS range due to 100% execute crit passive. you could go that way too as they have some sustain as well to go their crit dmg passive. Plus you can go magcro later down the line.

Xogath

nsmurfer wrote: »

@Xogath from what i am hearing from most of my guildies as well as most parsers, if khajit is either equating or exceeding Orc dps at 90k DPS range due to 100% execute crit passive. you could go that way too as they have some sustain as well to go their crit dmg passive. Plus you can go magcro later down the line.

That's true enough, but I don't play Magicka at all.. except maybe a Magsorc, but I never got her past like level 15 because the undaunting task of collecting Skyshards and such reminded me how not-friendly this game is to alts.

Thankfully we can alleviate that nonsense via the Crown Store with U22.. so maybe I'll finally level her.

MashmalloMan

The most interesting part about Necro is that they can use Lava Foot Soup with one of the HP races and get comparable raw DPS stats with more sustain, still hitting a 16-17k hp benchmark.

Here is an example of how I'm looking at Necro. You can even do 1 big enchant instead of 2 for Orc/Khajiit or no enchant for Imperial or something in between. A heavy armor chest for +4% hp instead of 7 medium, etc.

I think the new values for Lava Foot Soup I used are correct.. I had to dig through youtube videos to find them, seems to be about 12% stronger than live.