Fix Mangle - not working as intended

Gnortranermara

The Mangle debuff cannot possibly be working as intended. It is grossly ineffective in nearly all PvP and PvE scenarios. If you fix Mangle, then Incap can be reverted back to a tolerable state and you'd also be fixing the under-powered Impulse ability at the same time. So, two birds, one stone, right?

Suggested fix: make Mangle reduce Max Health by 10% --AND-- add a damage component that deals n Oblivion damage, where n is whatever damage the target had already taken when Mangle got applied, up to 10% of Max Health. Important: Mangle does not drop off for a very long duration and cannot be reapplied until it expires (so the damage can't be spammed).

This would make the debuff far less situational, useful in PvE and PvP. And it wouldn't be OP, since it's capped at a total of 10% Max Health for the duration. Spamming it or zergs running it wouldn't stack up any additional damage. It's just enough to make it worth using for its debuff utility without worrying about that utility being totally nullified by circumstances, and no more.

Vapirko

Mangle is gone. Silence is the new effect. Check the patch notes.

Gnortranermara

Vapirko wrote: »

Mangle is gone. Silence is the new effect. Check the patch notes.

Yes, and they're instantly revisiting that decision. This is a reasonable option.

darkblue5

Still would shrink the execute phase this way, no? The order it gets applied is still important as well. I do like that the new Silence Incap tried to have group utility even if the skill is totally unworkable. Giving stamblade some marginal utility in groups if it isn't going to be hands down the best solo spec seems fair. I don't think stamblade is even the best solo spec on live. I think magsorc holds that spot tbh.

Vapirko

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Mangle is gone. Silence is the new effect. Check the patch notes.

Yes, and they're instantly revisiting that decision. This is a reasonable option.

I think they won't bring back mangle because they could not get it to work properly, the mechanics of it and the way this game functions would be way too difficult for them to implement properly in PvP. Too much lag, too many positioning issues and so on. They would be hearing complaints and bugs about it from release on live until the end of time. If they couldn't get it to work 5.0.3 then they're not going to bring it back in the last week.

Also oblivion damage won't be implemented either. It's too powerful, has failed miserably in a number of other applications, and I dont think they will change the theme of disease damage. Additionally, Im not really sure why you would want to remove the disease damage. Although no longer guaranteed, disease damage still has a chance to proc major defile. If you changed it to oblivion damage it would have to be a very small amount so as not to over perform on lower health targets and reward high health/health regen builds.

darkblue5

Vapirko wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Mangle is gone. Silence is the new effect. Check the patch notes.

Yes, and they're instantly revisiting that decision. This is a reasonable option.

I think they won't bring back mangle because they could not get it to work properly, the mechanics of it and the way this game functions would be way too difficult for them to implement properly in PvP. Too much lag, too many positioning issues and so on. They would be hearing complaints and bugs about it from release on live until the end of time. If they couldn't get it to work 5.0.3 then they're not going to bring it back in the last week.

Also oblivion damage won't be implemented either. It's too powerful, has failed miserably in a number of other applications, and I dont think they will change the theme of disease damage. Additionally, Im not really sure why you would want to remove the disease damage. Although no longer guaranteed, disease damage still has a chance to proc major defile. If you changed it to oblivion damage it would have to be a very small amount so as not to over perform on lower health targets and reward high health/health regen builds.

I think they were tacking the Oblivion Damage on to make Minor Mangle actually work a little bit more like how you'd think it works when you first try it before realizing it is a kind of bad debuff. If Minonr Mangle just took 10% health off full health top and didn't shrink the execute window as well it still would be like Incap has no extra effect in most uses. However, at least it wouldn't make it harder to kill your opponent as well and should they get healed to "full" it'd work the same as live. Still would be bad, but applying it before damage could easily get out of hand I feel.

Vapirko

darkblue5 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Mangle is gone. Silence is the new effect. Check the patch notes.

Yes, and they're instantly revisiting that decision. This is a reasonable option.

I think they won't bring back mangle because they could not get it to work properly, the mechanics of it and the way this game functions would be way too difficult for them to implement properly in PvP. Too much lag, too many positioning issues and so on. They would be hearing complaints and bugs about it from release on live until the end of time. If they couldn't get it to work 5.0.3 then they're not going to bring it back in the last week.

Also oblivion damage won't be implemented either. It's too powerful, has failed miserably in a number of other applications, and I dont think they will change the theme of disease damage. Additionally, Im not really sure why you would want to remove the disease damage. Although no longer guaranteed, disease damage still has a chance to proc major defile. If you changed it to oblivion damage it would have to be a very small amount so as not to over perform on lower health targets and reward high health/health regen builds.

I think they were tacking the Oblivion Damage on to make Minor Mangle actually work a little bit more like how you'd think it works when you first try it before realizing it is a kind of bad debuff. If Minonr Mangle just took 10% health off full health top and didn't shrink the execute window as well it still would be like Incap has no extra effect in most uses. However, at least it wouldn't make it harder to kill your opponent as well and should they get healed to "full" it'd work the same as live. Still would be bad, but applying it before damage could easily get out of hand I feel.

Was there some new announcement I missed?

darkblue5

Vapirko wrote: »

darkblue5 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Mangle is gone. Silence is the new effect. Check the patch notes.

Yes, and they're instantly revisiting that decision. This is a reasonable option.

I think they won't bring back mangle because they could not get it to work properly, the mechanics of it and the way this game functions would be way too difficult for them to implement properly in PvP. Too much lag, too many positioning issues and so on. They would be hearing complaints and bugs about it from release on live until the end of time. If they couldn't get it to work 5.0.3 then they're not going to bring it back in the last week.

Also oblivion damage won't be implemented either. It's too powerful, has failed miserably in a number of other applications, and I dont think they will change the theme of disease damage. Additionally, Im not really sure why you would want to remove the disease damage. Although no longer guaranteed, disease damage still has a chance to proc major defile. If you changed it to oblivion damage it would have to be a very small amount so as not to over perform on lower health targets and reward high health/health regen builds.

I think they were tacking the Oblivion Damage on to make Minor Mangle actually work a little bit more like how you'd think it works when you first try it before realizing it is a kind of bad debuff. If Minonr Mangle just took 10% health off full health top and didn't shrink the execute window as well it still would be like Incap has no extra effect in most uses. However, at least it wouldn't make it harder to kill your opponent as well and should they get healed to "full" it'd work the same as live. Still would be bad, but applying it before damage could easily get out of hand I feel.

Was there some new announcement I missed?

Sorry bad typing. OP's suggestion was tacking on Oblivion damage among other changes for a rework of Minor Mangle. ZOS has not reworked Minor Mangle.

Gnortranermara

Vapirko wrote: »

Also oblivion damage won't be implemented either. It's too powerful, has failed miserably in a number of other applications

That's why my suggestion caps the damage at the amount that would've been taken by the Mangle debuff anyway. The cap plus a long cooldown on Mangle application together would prevent spamming the damage. It's only there to make Mangle still be functional on a target that already lost 10% of health, but not to be any kind of significant ongoing source of damage throughout a fight.