Let classes fulfill their role properly.

Shadowasrial

Enough with the whole every class can play every role. If you want to do that then you shouldn’t have multiple character slots. If you want to run healer then run Templar or warden. If you want damage then run sorc if you want to run a rogue glass cannon then run nightblade. If you want to run a tank then be a dk. At most a class should be able to fulfill 1 of 2 roles. If you want to run a different role then go back to character selection and choose the appropriate class. All of this all classes should be able to do all roles equally is nonsense. What’s the point of a class then? If you need a breakdown of how classic MMO Classes work here you go.

1 rogue type- high burst damage low-medium defense medium sustain
2 tank- low damage high survival great resource sustain
3 healer class- low to medium survival great resource sustain low damage. ( meant to be protected by group to keep group alive)
4 fighter- medium damage medium to high defense medium resource sustain
5 mage dps-high damage low defense high resource sustain.

Those are the classics class roles. And when you play these roles you sacrifice one thing for another. It doesn’t mean that every class should have high defense high dps and high sustain. At the very least we shouldn’t be able to build our toons that way. If I want to build my nb to quickly burst a target down then I shouldn’t be able to survive extended fights or against multiple opponents. The same should be said for tanks and mages tanks shouldn’t be able to dish out damage like a dps does. And mages shouldn’t be able to dish out damage and tank people with shields.

Kel

Nah

That's what makes ESO unique. Plenty of other cookie cutter MMO's out there if you want typical class/roles.

Tasear

No ty I like my 8 healers of all sorts different classes and playstles.

SirAndy

Nope ...

Druid40

I say, make each class a little better at the other things.

technohic

I actually support this. With all of them being able to do everything, if one excels at their actual archetype then its hard to counter. We basically have watered down classes.

Goregrinder

Classes don't have roles...builds do. This isn't WoW.

HowlKimchi

You can play other MMOS if you want that kind of setup.

worrallj

I disagree.

Roles generally have a best class for top end performance, so perhaps that will satisfy you.

There's really only a handful of skills unique to the class. Classes in ESO are kind of more for flavor, they don't set your destiny.

idk

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Enough with the whole every class can play every role. If you want to do that then you shouldn’t have multiple character slots.

This logic falls flat to start off with.

Further, Zos has clearly stated that while we can play any role with any class, which is very true, some classes will excel more than others.

Shadowasrial wrote: »

What’s the point of a class then?

The point is very simple and we can see it across other MMORPGs as well. Each class has it's own flavor. Tanking on one if very different than on another as long as you play to the classes strengths. Same with healers and damage dealers. The end product is we have a choice of what flavor we want to play with. Considering the world first vDSA sub 60 minute run (back when score was time based) was done with a Sorc healer, not a Templar, skilled players can do much with different classes.

The previous MMORPG I spent a lot of time in I healed on three different classes and could hold my own in dps roles for each of those classes. Same with tanking so I fail to see the point the OP attempts to make.

I find it interesting that OP seems to think a class should be locked behind a role as other MMORPGs I have played allowed some classed to do more than one role.

ZonasArch

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Enough with the whole every class can play every role. If you want to do that then you shouldn’t have multiple character slots. If you want to run healer then run Templar or warden. If you want damage then run sorc if you want to run a rogue glass cannon then run nightblade. If you want to run a tank then be a dk. At most a class should be able to fulfill 1 of 2 roles. If you want to run a different role then go back to character selection and choose the appropriate class. All of this all classes should be able to do all roles equally is nonsense. What’s the point of a class then? If you need a breakdown of how classic MMO Classes work here you go.

1 rogue type- high burst damage low-medium defense medium sustain
2 tank- low damage high survival great resource sustain
3 healer class- low to medium survival great resource sustain low damage. ( meant to be protected by group to keep group alive)
4 fighter- medium damage medium to high defense medium resource sustain
5 mage dps-high damage low defense high resource sustain.

Those are the classics class roles. And when you play these roles you sacrifice one thing for another. It doesn’t mean that every class should have high defense high dps and high sustain. At the very least we shouldn’t be able to build our toons that way. If I want to build my nb to quickly burst a target down then I shouldn’t be able to survive extended fights or against multiple opponents. The same should be said for tanks and mages tanks shouldn’t be able to dish out damage like a dps does. And mages shouldn’t be able to dish out damage and tank people with shields.

Who told you DKs are tanks? Or anything else? It's not like these things changed... It's been like this since day zero, so you're absolutely objectively wrong in all your assumptions.

Also, rogue? Fighter? What you talking about? I think you may actually be confusing two games here... We only have tank, healer and damage dealer. All are fighters and rogue is a dream from another game...

Now please... Stop trying to turn ESO into your old failed wow. Thanks.

RogueShark

No thanks.
I enjoy my sorc healing.

AlienatedGoat

No! That's not what ESO is about.

ESO has always been about having open classes that can fill any role. Certain classes excel better at certain roles, and ZOS has never said they want every class to do every role equally (I don't know where you got this OP). They want every class to have a toolkit to do every role, but they're not trying to homogenize roles or their skillsets. Every class will do every role just a bit differently.

And this BS I hear about certain classes not being able to do a role at all is just meta-sheep garbage. Certain classes will never be "the best" at a role (like DK healer for example). That does not mean it can't do that role at all - you can perform any role, with any class, in any content. Don't let anyone fool you into thinking otherwise.

Gilvoth

technohic wrote: »

I actually support this. With all of them being able to do everything, if one excels at their actual archetype then its hard to counter. We basically have watered down classes.

this ^
the end product is failed classes, that don't have clear direction.

would be Best if we had no classes at all, or atleast have a choice to be classless and choose form a list of skills of all the skills in the game.

efster

Why don't you go play a "classic" game if you like them so much? ESO has always had the "play how you want" tagline, that's a huge part of the reason many of us play it. It's fine that you don't like it, but that doesn't mean that your view of how an MMO should work needs to be imposed on every MMO in existence. Nothing is stopping you personally from playing the classes as you envision them, but please stop telling other people how to play the game we pay for.

Kel

Gilvoth wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I actually support this. With all of them being able to do everything, if one excels at their actual archetype then its hard to counter. We basically have watered down classes.

this ^
the end product is failed classes, that don't have clear direction.

would be Best if we had no classes at all, or atleast have a choice to be classless and choose form a list of skills of all the skills in the game.

The problem with this is the idea of picking all skills would be extremely hard to balance.

Even with the classes we have, balance isn't exactly a strong feature here. The game would be a mess.

Runkorko

Silly idea. Sorry.

StormeReigns

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Enough with the whole every class can play every role. If you want to do that then you shouldn’t have multiple character slots. If you want to run healer then run Templar or warden. If you want damage then run sorc if you want to run a rogue glass cannon then run nightblade. If you want to run a tank then be a dk. At most a class should be able to fulfill 1 of 2 roles. If you want to run a different role then go back to character selection and choose the appropriate class. All of this all classes should be able to do all roles equally is nonsense. What’s the point of a class then? If you need a breakdown of how classic MMO Classes work here you go.

1 rogue type- high burst damage low-medium defense medium sustain
2 tank- low damage high survival great resource sustain
3 healer class- low to medium survival great resource sustain low damage. ( meant to be protected by group to keep group alive)
4 fighter- medium damage medium to high defense medium resource sustain
5 mage dps-high damage low defense high resource sustain.

Those are the classics class roles. And when you play these roles you sacrifice one thing for another. It doesn’t mean that every class should have high defense high dps and high sustain. At the very least we shouldn’t be able to build our toons that way. If I want to build my nb to quickly burst a target down then I shouldn’t be able to survive extended fights or against multiple opponents. The same should be said for tanks and mages tanks shouldn’t be able to dish out damage like a dps does. And mages shouldn’t be able to dish out damage and tank people with shields.

So... a not so subtle, convoluted nerf everything but NBs and buff NB thread disguised as a "Know your role" thread.

Sheezabeast

But but but Fire DK DPS is funnnnnn and mag dk has a decent class identity, I like it as it is, I main a stam DK and when I get bored of the play style, I enjoy playing my other dragonknight, that instead of being evasive and dishing out raw damage, I utilize fire abilities and a staff, plus in my head Dunmer still do more damage with flame, even though zos ripped that lollypop from our hand It's nice to still pretend ;D

Jeremy

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Enough with the whole every class can play every role. If you want to do that then you shouldn’t have multiple character slots. If you want to run healer then run Templar or warden. If you want damage then run sorc if you want to run a rogue glass cannon then run nightblade. If you want to run a tank then be a dk. At most a class should be able to fulfill 1 of 2 roles. If you want to run a different role then go back to character selection and choose the appropriate class. All of this all classes should be able to do all roles equally is nonsense. What’s the point of a class then? If you need a breakdown of how classic MMO Classes work here you go.

1 rogue type- high burst damage low-medium defense medium sustain
2 tank- low damage high survival great resource sustain
3 healer class- low to medium survival great resource sustain low damage. ( meant to be protected by group to keep group alive)
4 fighter- medium damage medium to high defense medium resource sustain
5 mage dps-high damage low defense high resource sustain.

Those are the classics class roles. And when you play these roles you sacrifice one thing for another. It doesn’t mean that every class should have high defense high dps and high sustain. At the very least we shouldn’t be able to build our toons that way. If I want to build my nb to quickly burst a target down then I shouldn’t be able to survive extended fights or against multiple opponents. The same should be said for tanks and mages tanks shouldn’t be able to dish out damage like a dps does. And mages shouldn’t be able to dish out damage and tank people with shields.

Variety is the spice of life. And video games.

The last thing this game needs is less variety in builds and combinations. It's need more of that. Not less.

SirAndy

Marcus684 wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

Another whiny NB angry because their insta-kill build is being nerfed. Yawn.

I disagree with the OP, but don't even go there ffs. We have enough of those threads.

As someone who plays all builds with varying degrees of averageness, and therefore isn’t invested in any particular one of them, I usually read these whine threads with some degree of skepticism, but the sheer amount of crying from NBs lately has risen to the point where I can’t deny it anymore. They are more entitled, fragile, and emotionally invested in their class than any other IMO, and I just felt the need to express that.
Scrub out.

I leveled a Stamblade exclusively in PvP from level 10 to VR 12/14/16 right after PC launch.
Not sure if you were here back then but stamina Nightblades were hilariously broken for a long time and nobody wanted to play them.
You didn't hear any whining from me back then and you won't hear any whining from me right now.

Of course, having 4 mains with 4 different races and 4 different classes helps offset some of the nerf this and nerf that pain that comes with each major patch.

david_m_18b16_ESO

Kel wrote: »

Nah

That's what makes ESO unique. Plenty of other cookie cutter MMO's out there if you want typical class/roles.

PvE speaking Id argue that ESO is the most cookie cutter game that I have ever played.

In other MMO different class dont share the sames skill for half of their rotation at least.

And lets face it, everyone use the same 10-11 same skill out of 12 slot.

Again, for PvE.

Runkorko

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Nah

That's what makes ESO unique. Plenty of other cookie cutter MMO's out there if you want typical class/roles.

PvE speaking Id argue that ESO is the most cookie cutter game that I have ever played.

In other MMO different class dont share the sames skill for half of their rotation at least.

And lets face it, everyone use the same 10-11 same skill out of 12 slot.

Again, for PvE.

You have plenty of class skills.
Its up to you what to pick. And its your problem if you follow the "meta"
Even then, every class have uniq playstile and rotation.
And about the other games, i wont agree. Classes may be diferent, but all lets say druids use same skills. All.
So do you want that ? I dont.

barney2525

I think the point is valid.

As well, the same people who rail against it, and want the any class/any role, are the first ones to kick someone out of a party when their character is under-performing their role.

mairwen85

Commas

It's a valid point -- however, any class/any role is part of TES culture, not necessarily MMO; because of the franchise, because of its history, because of the majority of the player base only playing because of it.

The comment below would be a better implementation: Skill lines only. Classes should still be in place, but be preset templates that allow skills in certain lines to increase at a higher rate than others, or provide bonuses to skill lines via passives.

The Oblivion class system was interesting in this way; you could take a preset with pre-selected startup skills (with boosts), or create your own class and cherry pick the skills you want. That is what I wanted from ESO initially -- I do question if we'd not all be running the exact same build though in such a system. So far into its life-cycle, none of this will change. The discussion, however valid, is equally moot.

Flameheart

Shadowasrial wrote: »

Enough with the whole every class can play every role. If you want to do that then you shouldn’t have multiple character slots. If you want to run healer then run Templar or warden. If you want damage then run sorc if you want to run a rogue glass cannon then run nightblade. If you want to run a tank then be a dk. At most a class should be able to fulfill 1 of 2 roles. If you want to run a different role then go back to character selection and choose the appropriate class. All of this all classes should be able to do all roles equally is nonsense. What’s the point of a class then? If you need a breakdown of how classic MMO Classes work here you go.

1 rogue type- high burst damage low-medium defense medium sustain
2 tank- low damage high survival great resource sustain
3 healer class- low to medium survival great resource sustain low damage. ( meant to be protected by group to keep group alive)
4 fighter- medium damage medium to high defense medium resource sustain
5 mage dps-high damage low defense high resource sustain.

Those are the classics class roles. And when you play these roles you sacrifice one thing for another. It doesn’t mean that every class should have high defense high dps and high sustain. At the very least we shouldn’t be able to build our toons that way. If I want to build my nb to quickly burst a target down then I shouldn’t be able to survive extended fights or against multiple opponents. The same should be said for tanks and mages tanks shouldn’t be able to dish out damage like a dps does. And mages shouldn’t be able to dish out damage and tank people with shields.

Sorry, nope. The current system is not perfect (actually it has already a trend to be according to your wish when it comes to specific roles in veteran raid environements, see "DK-tank", "Templar-healer"), but much superior in compare to your suggestion, when it comes to versatility and flexibility.

If I want to play "holy-trinity-class-MMOs" I reactivate my Everquest account.

Imho -> no classes at all, just skill lines.

PS: The TO is a pissed NB-player for sure, because he has "shadow" in his name. Btw this conclusion is as generic and boring as your "class-role-suggestion".

Gythral

Sure every class should be able to 'forfill' their role!
Each and every one should be able to be effective tank, health, and direct damage depending on how the users wants to play that class/character

MLGProPlayer

That's kind of how it is already.

DK: Tank
Templar: Healer or DPS
Sorc: DPS or Healer
NB: DPS
Warden: Tank or Healer
Necro: Everything

I'd like to see ZOS go back to the drawing board and rework all the classes to be more like necro. The original 4+1 classes already forced you into a specific role. We don't need more of that. We need less of it.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

That's kind of how it is already.

DK: Tank
Templar: Healer or DPS
Sorc: DPS or Healer
NB: DPS
Warden: Tank or Healer
Necro: Everything

I'd like to see ZOS go back to the drawing board and rework all the classes to be more like necro. The original 4+1 classes already forced you into a specific role. We don't need more of that. We need less of it.

Templar, NB and especially Sorcerer make great tanks. Far superior to DK to boot.

idk

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

That's kind of how it is already.

DK: Tank
Templar: Healer or DPS
Sorc: DPS or Healer
NB: DPS
Warden: Tank or Healer
Necro: Everything

I'd like to see ZOS go back to the drawing board and rework all the classes to be more like necro. The original 4+1 classes already forced you into a specific role. We don't need more of that. We need less of it.

Templar, NB and especially Sorcerer make great tanks. Far superior to DK to boot.

I would not say far superior without context. However, I do agree the comment you quoted was overly simplistic.

Skilled players do wonders in every role for each class. It is only in the very top groups does it separate out more.

Shanjijri

Tasear wrote: »

No ty I like my 8 healers of all sorts different classes and playstles.

^ This.