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Negate magic vs incap
RavenSworn
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We already have negate magic dealing silence on players... Whats the big uproar on silence? It's like... Silence was already here.
Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭From one you can simply walk out of, the other you can't do anything about. Do we really need to spell this out for you?17 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »From one you can simply walk out of, the other you can't do anything about. Do we really need to spell this out for you?
Apparently.5 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Negate has its place - group play. And it’s perfectly balanced because of the cost and the radius. I just hope ZOS doesn’t trash Negate because they want to create „counter-play“ for the unnecessary silence added to Incap.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.15 -
BaylorCorvette✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »From one you can simply walk out of, the other you can't do anything about. Do we really need to spell this out for you?
This. With one dodge roll you can pretty much be out of the Negate bubble. Currently with the Incap change you have no counter play for three seconds.Supreme Leader Corvette - StamSorc
Founder of Dominion Special Forces
YouTube - ESO & Automotive Racing
DC Zerg Busting2 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭Negate has its place - group play. And it’s perfectly balanced because of the cost and the radius. I just hope ZOS doesn’t trash Negate because they want to create „counter-play“ for the unnecessary silence added to Incap.
So technically, and I'm just winging it here, while negate is group play, incap is more of solo play yes?
If that is the case then, the cost should rise be increased for the fact that it is now, as ZoS calls it, overloaded. That to me should be the proper change, not just taking away the effects.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!0 -
HEBREWHAMMERRR✭✭✭✭✭Exactly! There was no uproar over negate tanks being able to silence and root entire groups while also streaking to stun them. I don’t get the fuss over a single target silence lol it’s hilarious man.4 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm just guessing because I haven't tried it, but Silence is a debuff, not a CC, so there is no immunity granted if that's the case. 3 seconds might not be so bad, but that's 3 seconds of being locked out of everything for a magicka spec, and after that 3 seconds of using your stamina to stay alive you can be stunned. 2 or 3 NBs could just cycle stuns and Silences leaving their target unable to use any of their abilities.
Once you start adding numbers to the equation you can make the case that a group of anything could do this, and that's true, but my main problem is why is ZOS even looking at tweaking NBs in the first place? They're a solid class. Incap was a bit overloaded, and I guess you could say that NBs have a better toolkit and if that's the case why isn't ZOS looking at the other classes and trying to improve them rather than messing around with different effects to stack with Incap?3 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »Exactly! There was no uproar over negate tanks being able to silence and root entire groups while also streaking to stun them. I don’t get the fuss over a single target silence lol it’s hilarious man.
Because there is easy counterplay to negate. There is no easy counterplay to incap. If these changes go through, good luck playing solo open world on any magicka character.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.2 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭Nightblade players are the most childish of the ESO playerbase.
They know damn well the Silence is much too powerful and are downplaying it so they can attempt to keep it on Incap.5 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭Sandman929 wrote: »I'm just guessing because I haven't tried it, but Silence is a debuff, not a CC, so there is no immunity granted if that's the case. 3 seconds might not be so bad, but that's 3 seconds of being locked out of everything for a magicka spec, and after that 3 seconds of using your stamina to stay alive you can be stunned. 2 or 3 NBs could just cycle stuns and Silences leaving their target unable to use any of their abilities.
Once you start adding numbers to the equation you can make the case that a group of anything could do this, and that's true, but my main problem is why is ZOS even looking at tweaking NBs in the first place? They're a solid class. Incap was a bit overloaded, and I guess you could say that NBs have a better toolkit and if that's the case why isn't ZOS looking at the other classes and trying to improve them rather than messing around with different effects to stack with Incap?
Technically, if 3 players of any class are pounding on you then suffice to say you should die. Period. I love those 1vX videos as much as the other person but if you have bgs or cyrodil full of those types of players... Then it's not good pvp.FlamingBeard wrote: »Nightblade players are the most childish of the ESO playerbase.
They know damn well the Silence is much too powerful and are downplaying it so they can attempt to keep it on Incap.
There's more to a class than just dps or pvp. Silence is powerful but... It is only single target. The best balance change to this, is to increase its cost. 200 even imo.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »I'm just guessing because I haven't tried it, but Silence is a debuff, not a CC, so there is no immunity granted if that's the case. 3 seconds might not be so bad, but that's 3 seconds of being locked out of everything for a magicka spec, and after that 3 seconds of using your stamina to stay alive you can be stunned. 2 or 3 NBs could just cycle stuns and Silences leaving their target unable to use any of their abilities.
Once you start adding numbers to the equation you can make the case that a group of anything could do this, and that's true, but my main problem is why is ZOS even looking at tweaking NBs in the first place? They're a solid class. Incap was a bit overloaded, and I guess you could say that NBs have a better toolkit and if that's the case why isn't ZOS looking at the other classes and trying to improve them rather than messing around with different effects to stack with Incap?
Technically, if 3 players of any class are pounding on you then suffice to say you should die. Period. I love those 1vX videos as much as the other person but if you have bgs or cyrodil full of those types of players... Then it's not good pvp.
If you're idea of good PvP is that three bad or inexperienced players should always kill a skilled player, we're just going to have to agree to disagree .Edited by Joy_Division on May 8, 2019 2:54PM12 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info6 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »RavenSworn wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »I'm just guessing because I haven't tried it, but Silence is a debuff, not a CC, so there is no immunity granted if that's the case. 3 seconds might not be so bad, but that's 3 seconds of being locked out of everything for a magicka spec, and after that 3 seconds of using your stamina to stay alive you can be stunned. 2 or 3 NBs could just cycle stuns and Silences leaving their target unable to use any of their abilities.
Once you start adding numbers to the equation you can make the case that a group of anything could do this, and that's true, but my main problem is why is ZOS even looking at tweaking NBs in the first place? They're a solid class. Incap was a bit overloaded, and I guess you could say that NBs have a better toolkit and if that's the case why isn't ZOS looking at the other classes and trying to improve them rather than messing around with different effects to stack with Incap?
Technically, if 3 players of any class are pounding on you then suffice to say you should die. Period. I love those 1vX videos as much as the other person but if you have bgs or cyrodil full of those types of players... Then it's not good pvp.
If you're idea of good PvP is that three bad or inexperienced players should always kill a skilled player, we're just going to have to agree to disagree .
I think we need to start quantifying the skill level of the players involved when talking about outnumbered/ 1 v X situations.
From the original premise, 2-3 NBs working together with their timing down on ults are not inexperienced players.Edited by driosketch on May 8, 2019 3:29PMMain: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »RavenSworn wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »I'm just guessing because I haven't tried it, but Silence is a debuff, not a CC, so there is no immunity granted if that's the case. 3 seconds might not be so bad, but that's 3 seconds of being locked out of everything for a magicka spec, and after that 3 seconds of using your stamina to stay alive you can be stunned. 2 or 3 NBs could just cycle stuns and Silences leaving their target unable to use any of their abilities.
Once you start adding numbers to the equation you can make the case that a group of anything could do this, and that's true, but my main problem is why is ZOS even looking at tweaking NBs in the first place? They're a solid class. Incap was a bit overloaded, and I guess you could say that NBs have a better toolkit and if that's the case why isn't ZOS looking at the other classes and trying to improve them rather than messing around with different effects to stack with Incap?
Technically, if 3 players of any class are pounding on you then suffice to say you should die. Period. I love those 1vX videos as much as the other person but if you have bgs or cyrodil full of those types of players... Then it's not good pvp.
If you're idea of good PvP is that three bad or inexperienced players should always kill a skilled player, we're just going to have to agree to disagree .
No no, you misunderstand. Hence, "technically". Inexperienced players will hardly get a good chance on skilled, veterans. But it is frustrating.
However I like to point out that I don't agree with this 'buff'. Nbs as a dps, are overloaded initially. But as I said above, there are more to a class than just dps. This change does play well in a solo, Brawler type setting. Also, it no longer stuns the target. Yeah you can combo it with other stuns but that is IF the combo lands.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!0 -
Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »We already have negate magic dealing silence on players... Whats the big uproar on silence? It's like... Silence was already here.
You're not very bright are u?0 -
Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »I'm just guessing because I haven't tried it, but Silence is a debuff, not a CC, so there is no immunity granted if that's the case. 3 seconds might not be so bad, but that's 3 seconds of being locked out of everything for a magicka spec, and after that 3 seconds of using your stamina to stay alive you can be stunned. 2 or 3 NBs could just cycle stuns and Silences leaving their target unable to use any of their abilities.
Once you start adding numbers to the equation you can make the case that a group of anything could do this, and that's true, but my main problem is why is ZOS even looking at tweaking NBs in the first place? They're a solid class. Incap was a bit overloaded, and I guess you could say that NBs have a better toolkit and if that's the case why isn't ZOS looking at the other classes and trying to improve them rather than messing around with different effects to stack with Incap?
Technically, if 3 players of any class are pounding on you then suffice to say you should die. Period. I love those 1vX videos as much as the other person but if you have bgs or cyrodil full of those types of players... Then it's not good pvp.FlamingBeard wrote: »Nightblade players are the most childish of the ESO playerbase.
They know damn well the Silence is much too powerful and are downplaying it so they can attempt to keep it on Incap.
There's more to a class than just dps or pvp. Silence is powerful but... It is only single target. The best balance change to this, is to increase its cost. 200 even imo.
200? It shouldn't even be in game. Stop asking for *** to carry you.Edited by Ariades_swe on May 8, 2019 4:25PM2 -
Prutton✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »We already have negate magic dealing silence on players... Whats the big uproar on silence? It's like... Silence was already here.
Negate: Roll away, shield/heal, fight back.
Incap: Roll away, get ambushed, no shield/heal, die.0 -
Rhaegar75✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »From one you can simply walk out of, the other you can't do anything about. Do we really need to spell this out for you?
indeed!!
I've played against many sorcerers and I'm levelling one now myself....you simply walk out of Negate, zero problems!
Incap?!?!?! 3 seconds being silenced...it's like a death sentence0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I get negates centered in me all the time. Dodge roll + walk a bit gets you out of them. I’d say it’s equivalent to about 2 seconds of silence on the centered player (I’ve never timed a dodge roll, so dodge roll plus a half second). Longer if combined with talons.Edited by Iskiab on May 8, 2019 4:26PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Sheuib✭✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »Negate has its place - group play. And it’s perfectly balanced because of the cost and the radius. I just hope ZOS doesn’t trash Negate because they want to create „counter-play“ for the unnecessary silence added to Incap.
So technically, and I'm just winging it here, while negate is group play, incap is more of solo play yes?
If that is the case then, the cost should rise be increased for the fact that it is now, as ZoS calls it, overloaded. That to me should be the proper change, not just taking away the effects.
It doesn't matter how much it costs. A 3 second silence on a magicka character with no counter play is basically an "I WIN!" button.1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
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Against 1 - no way. On live I’ve only been successfully ganked once in 3 months, you must be glass canon. Against two, yea you’re probably dead unless you’re in a tank spec.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »We already have negate magic dealing silence on players... Whats the big uproar on silence? It's like... Silence was already here.
Suppression/Absorption Field are area control abilities, though. Sure there will be times when people get caught out and killed by a group with well-timed negates but the real point of the skill is to drop it on a flag or a breach or whatever and deny that area to your enemy. They can simply avoid it.2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »RavenSworn wrote: »We already have negate magic dealing silence on players... Whats the big uproar on silence? It's like... Silence was already here.
Suppression/Absorption Field are area control abilities, though. Sure there will be times when people get caught out and killed by a group with well-timed negates but the real point of the skill is to drop it on a flag or a breach or whatever and deny that area to your enemy. They can simply avoid it.
That’s not how it’s being used. Typical users are ball groups or large pvp groups. Before a clash it’s typically first to negate wins.
A well timed/placed negate will turn the tide in any battle.Edited by Iskiab on May 8, 2019 4:45PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »From one you can simply walk out of, the other you can't do anything about. Do we really need to spell this out for you?
Yes, but then again you can still walk / move out /roll dodge from incap since it no longer stuns.BaylorCorvette wrote: »This. With one dodge roll you can pretty much be out of the Negate bubble. Currently with the Incap change you have no counter play for three seconds.
If we were to compare:
Negate + stun = Incap from stealth ?
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭None of this really matters. We all know in a year many of these skills will perform differently because Zos, and specifically Matt, do not have a clue what they are doing. It why they change skills then reverse their changes soon afterwards.
The Templar Javelin is a perfect example, they increased the knockback and less than a year later they removed the knockback completely. If they had someone competent at the helm directing the teams we would see a much more stable game.1 -
ccmedaddy✭✭✭✭✭
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Wait how does one walk out of incap... that doesn't even make any senseTommy_The_Gun wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »From one you can simply walk out of, the other you can't do anything about. Do we really need to spell this out for you?
Yes, but then again you can still walk / move out /roll dodge from incap since it no longer stuns.BaylorCorvette wrote: »This. With one dodge roll you can pretty much be out of the Negate bubble. Currently with the Incap change you have no counter play for three seconds.
If we were to compare:
Negate + stun = Incap from stealth ?Edited by ccmedaddy on May 8, 2019 4:56PM0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
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Wait how does one walk out of incap... that doesn't even make any senseTommy_The_Gun wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »From one you can simply walk out of, the other you can't do anything about. Do we really need to spell this out for you?
Yes, but then again you can still walk / move out /roll dodge from incap since it no longer stuns.BaylorCorvette wrote: »This. With one dodge roll you can pretty much be out of the Negate bubble. Currently with the Incap change you have no counter play for three seconds.
If we were to compare:
Negate + stun = Incap from stealth ?
Stun and defile’s been removed and replaced by a silence.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0
