Suggested adjustments to morphs of Shadow Cloak.

Knootewoot

ItsNebula wrote: »

You shoulda used Vol armor tbh..

but i fully agree.. i play a No Cloak Heavy Armor Stamblade and it works like a beauty.. i run Dark Cloak (the heal) instead of the invis version (mainly because i have self respect when playing a NB and i recognize that cloak is cheap and needs a nerf)
The damage is perfectly fine.. incap does need to lose the dmg bonus or the defile.. either or and its a fair game (or increase it to 125-150 ult) as incap gives WAY to much for how little it costs.

NBs that cry about "oh i need cloak to survive" are the same NBs that suck at other classes. I run my no cloak blade PERFECTLY FINE.. ive got 41k spell and physical resistances (with BS proc) and up to 4.2k wep dmg fully buffed and 1600 stam recov and i sustain just fine.

Cloak needs to last AT MAX 2 seconds, and if you use it again within 4 seconds its cost doubles (just like they did to streak) so they MUST be able to be seen for at least 2 seconds unless they wanna drain there magicka.

If me, and other good players (NBs in specific) can pull off a no cloak blade and do PERFECTLY fine on it, anyone else that puts the time and effort into it can as well. Yes its harder.. but if youre not trash at the game/class/PvP you can do it. Its just a L2P thing.

TLDR; No Cloak blade is better and MUCH stronger. Stats are 4k better than your average cloakblade as well o/

Again one of those:.I play no cloak heavy NB and it works......

You know some people want to play medium armor or light armor right? You also know there are mag blades, have you tried that?

Try light armored melee magblade without cloak.

You probably can't. Because you rely on heavy armor to survive, in which case dark cloak works awesome. And with said armor sets your just one of the clones.
Every class works well in heavy armor.

Calling others trash because they prefer the other morph and probably use light/medium armor makes you more trash.

BoxFoxx

idk wrote: »

BoxFoxx wrote: »

idk wrote: »

If OP came up with a DK build to counter NBs and the problem they have with NBs is cloak then they have not figured out how to use it.

It really is that simple because I do not have the magicka issues OP is claiming when pulling NBs out of cloak. I guess it is possible OP's build is a bad build to start with.

Nah man, I'm not intending to state a problem with killing NBs with this build... I don't mean to reference it as a problem for my build, but in general. I'm stating an observation. I have killed plenty of average NBs with this build and pulled them out of stealth just fine... but I don't mean to talk about average NBs. I mean to address certain players that exploit stealth during combat. I'm stating that after testing combat with many good NBs with high sustain where we are in combat for a long period using magicka for both defensive and offensive play, applying pressure, cc, reflecting, shielding and pulling from stealth... after exchanges like that, I've observed that the sustain for invisibility is too great, especially when you factor in kiting and distance. Then if that NB player was going up against another player without a build like mine, without all the counters?! It woudn't even be a contest for them.

I believe once you enter toe to toe combat, invisibility should not be a sustainable option. You shouldn't have to pull a NB from stealth more than once or twice 1v1. I don't know maybe I wrote the original post too vaguely, I can't edit it.

I apologise if I'm not being clear on that.... I'm not complaining. I'm making a suggestion based on gameplay experience. Maybe that's why I seem like I have split personalities lol.

This post is not intended as a complaint, but as a suggestion all around that stealth should cost substantially more but also last longer... that's it!

So now this is not about NB cloak or the mage light skill. This is about having challenges with going up against skilled players.

That is a big part of PvP. When we face situations that are challenging we work to rise up and find a means to counter it.

It sounds like you have found such a challenge and need to work on refining your player skill instead of coming to the forums complaining that the skill needs to be nerfed just because the player you are fighting is skilled.

You clearly state you have no issues pulling lesser skilled NBs out of stealth. That distinctly shows the counters to the skill are working find. You go on to explain that you have the problem when you encounter a good player and you falsely suggest it is their sustain. If you are using the counters against them effectively their sustain is pretty irrelevant to their use of cloak as they cannot cloak if you are applying the debuff.

Your words. Not mine.

You say this is not intended to be a complaint, but it is. You are asking for a nerf because you are challenged when fighting against a skilled player that uses this skill. Key word is they are a skilled player. If we nerfed every ability when someone finds it challenging in an encounter with a skilled player this would become a silly game.

BTW, my characters are not specifically build to fight NBs as yours is and I really do not find the issue you have. Granted, I do expect to be outplayed sometimes which seems to be where you and I differ.

No I'm not dude, ***... layoff... its just a suggestion... it's even in the title. God damn! Some people just want to pick a fight.

BoxFoxx

idk... you are refusing to try to understand what I'm saying... I am only saying that from an experienced point of view, stealth should be less sustainable during combat. That's it! I'm not complaining about it, I'm suggesting that that should be the way it works! My build was a test to see how strong certain features of the NB class are... dude... if you can't understand that that is the topic, well...

idk wrote: »

BTW, my characters are not specifically build to fight NBs as yours is and I really do not find the issue you have. Granted, I do expect to be outplayed sometimes which seems to be where you and I differ.

Honestly, this has nothing to do with being outplayed. I can get outplayed, I don't have a problem with that. Why are you even throwing stupid ass words around like that. Making assumptions. I'm not sitting here talking about the new Stamplar meta and how they dominate right now. I am not complaining, yet you want to force that onto me for some unkown godforsaken reason.

If you just want to attack me and my playstyle, you can leave. I have no intention of letting some a-hole make assumptions as to why I created this topic.

Iskiab wrote: »

BoxFoxx wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

IB4TL L2P

There are plenty of counters for stealth & invisibility. Use them pls.

I do and they work... but you're not considering kiting, distance and other factors.

Look, I may not be on the forums very often but I've been playing ESO since 2014... I am very well versed on every skill, class, race and most sets in the game. I have multiple builds of every class. I designed my counter NB build after playing versus many NB players and have chosen the skills very carefully. Take a moment and consider what I'm saying before making your judgement please.

You say you’re well versed in pvp and built an anti-NB spec? What kind of pvp?

I ask because NBs fill beginner BGs but are uncommon in in more experienced ones. Why would you build a spec around an uncommon class? It’s almost all sorcs, DKs and Wardens with the occasional NB or Templar.

It started with dueling, then I brought into BGs (which is a breeze) and as of the last few weeks I've been running in Cyrodiil. So all types to answer your question.


I really can't keep coming back here to argue with people. I thought we could have an honest open discussion. There seems to be some kind of bizarre aggressive mentality with some people here and I don't have time to deal with it...

...and this is my final point. The Nightblade playstyle, if choosing the STEALTH type, is a rogue class. This type of playstyle is not intended for toe to toe combat, it's a scouting/assassination (ganking) style... yet because of the way the stealth skill is now set-up, it is misused for toe to toe combat. It's a broken playstyle for the kind of role-playing game that ESO is... you can say that's my point of view, sure... but I've always stated from the get go that it was just my opinion.

EDIT: The comments below were condensed into this post.

SidraWillowsky

BoxFoxx wrote: »

This post is asking the devs to change the way invisibility can be used.

The problem with this -and a lot of other posts calling for substantial changes- is that what you're suggesting is going to screw over PvE-ers. I know I'm in the PvP side of the forum and I don't come here specifically to advocate for them/us (I currently do more PvP than PvE, but the latter is my favorite in the end) but I feel the need to here.

I assume you have at least some PvE experience, so you know that in PvE cloak is not commonly slotted for stamblade, which I assume is what people complain about on the PvP side for the most part. I main a stamblade and slotting cloak for her in PvE is a complete waste of a slot. Magblades, however... Extremely weak in PvP (I know that there are some fantastic Magblade PvP-ers out there but I don't think most people will deny that it's a weak class in large-scale PvP) and more likely to use cloak in PvE? They're going to get screwed by some of these proposed changes. In PvE it's a lot of fun to be able to cloak up and stay cloaked... Rapids + cloak = fun way to get past mobs. I solo some dungeons on mine, and while she CAN take on mobs, being able to cloak around them is fun too.

I feel like for every good NB in PvP there are 10 bad ones (like me) who you can pull out of stealth and melt. The changes that people cry for based on the minority are going to affect the majority the most...

InvictusApollo

Vietfox wrote: »

If something needs to be nerfed is the heavy armor. Sets like ravager or seventh legion allowing the player to have the same damage as someone running light or medium armor is unbalanced.

Lol, what? Every time I try to theorycraft a heavy armor build I decide to use full medium with just two heavy pieces. Medium armor gives far too much sustain and damage to even consider heavy armor. And as for resistances they aren't worth it since there are protective traits on jewelery. If anything heavy armor could use a sustain buff.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

“Based on a NBs play style, if they can't make the kill off the get go, they should lose the fight.”

What? Because all NB’s are gankers right?

Anyron

Invisibility is an issue mostly because how stamina is faster than magicka builds.

Detection potion and all counters to cloak are pointless against nightblade Swift builds mostly because you have, as magicka, limited stamina. Sprinting is impossible in no-cp even with shacklebreaker since you have stamina only for 1 roll and 1 CC break.

Then, keep up like that with nightblade in invisibility - much faster than you can be, starting and ending combat when he/she wants. Most of aoe magicka skills used in pvp are short-ranged and detection potion lasts only 12/45s

But even with all of this i prefer cyrodiil full of ganking Nbs than zergs.

BoxFoxx

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

BoxFoxx wrote: »

This post is asking the devs to change the way invisibility can be used.

The problem with this -and a lot of other posts calling for substantial changes- is that what you're suggesting is going to screw over PvE-ers. I know I'm in the PvP side of the forum and I don't come here specifically to advocate for them/us (I currently do more PvP than PvE, but the latter is my favorite in the end) but I feel the need to here.

I assume you have at least some PvE experience, so you know that in PvE cloak is not commonly slotted for stamblade, which I assume is what people complain about on the PvP side for the most part. I main a stamblade and slotting cloak for her in PvE is a complete waste of a slot. Magblades, however... Extremely weak in PvP (I know that there are some fantastic Magblade PvP-ers out there but I don't think most people will deny that it's a weak class in large-scale PvP) and more likely to use cloak in PvE? They're going to get screwed by some of these proposed changes. In PvE it's a lot of fun to be able to cloak up and stay cloaked... Rapids + cloak = fun way to get past mobs. I solo some dungeons on mine, and while she CAN take on mobs, being able to cloak around them is fun too.

I feel like for every good NB in PvP there are 10 bad ones (like me) who you can pull out of stealth and melt. The changes that people cry for based on the minority are going to affect the majority the most...

I appreciate your feedback and opinion Sidra,, I agree with you on every point you made. Please go back read the rest of the thread. I am also suggesting a duration increase. This would be nice for the fun sneaky style you speak of.

The suggested adjustments should satisfy everyone.

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

“Based on a NBs play style, if they can't make the kill off the get go, they should lose the fight.”

What? Because all NB’s are gankers right?

I apologize... I retract that comment (I am allowed to do that right, am I creating chaos?)...

Let me clarify... Where I was trying to get at with that was, there shouldn't be multiple chances for a stealth kill on the same target within a short time frame. The cost of stealth should be substantial enough that it would be a fight or flight scenario.

Anyron wrote: »

Invisibility is an issue mostly because how stamina is faster than magicka builds.

Detection potion and all counters to cloak are pointless against nightblade Swift builds mostly because you have, as magicka, limited stamina. Sprinting is impossible in no-cp even with shacklebreaker since you have stamina only for 1 roll and 1 CC break.

Then, keep up like that with nightblade in invisibility - much faster than you can be, starting and ending combat when he/she wants. Most of aoe magicka skills used in pvp are short-ranged and detection potion lasts only 12/45s

But even with all of this i prefer cyrodiil full of ganking Nbs than zergs.

Interesting observations... granted Cyrodiil is supposed to be a war zone, hence the zergs... wars generally have armies right?

It's funny how the term zerg gets thrown around these days. It used just mean a bunch of grouped up potatoes, now it's used in reference to any large number of players. ZOS tried to satisfy people who complain about "zergs" by creating battle grounds. I run in all sized groups personally. I've ran solo for a bit in Cyrodiil just to provoke NBs to attack me, but if you really want to enjoy Cyrodiil it's best to get into an organised group of skilled players, which has been my preference the last couple of weeks. We're rather unstoppable, only other skilled groups can be of any threat to us.

In regards to ganking NBs, I think about 1 in 10 can actually successfully pull off a gank. Ganking is much harder than it seems. You really have to commit to it. Personally, I could get bored ganking. I have way more fun capturing scrolls and helping crown Emp in our guild. The politics that happen between the alliances are funny too sometimes. We'll have spies trying to switch toons and join in our group and relay the information, discovering who they are is interesting. Anyway, there is way more to Cyrodiil than just getting kills. I have a lot of fun with it. It's practically all I do now when I sign on, aside for a few crafting writs and occasional trial run with my PvE guild.

EDIT: The comments below were condensed into this post.

Vietfox

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

If something needs to be nerfed is the heavy armor. Sets like ravager or seventh legion allowing the player to have the same damage as someone running light or medium armor is unbalanced.

Lol, what? Every time I try to theorycraft a heavy armor build I decide to use full medium with just two heavy pieces. Medium armor gives far too much sustain and damage to even consider heavy armor. And as for resistances they aren't worth it since there are protective traits on jewelery. If anything heavy armor could use a sustain buff.

I put both sets together along with blood spawn without putting much effort on the build because it was late and i was tired. Warden orc.
Crit is low but everything else seems fine to me. This is fully self buffed with Battle Spirit + the procs (no weapon dmg enchantment, i don't know if there's an option to add it, this is honestly the first time i use that website)
I put recovery glyphs but what i would honestly run would be weapon damage instead. Why? Because you can sustain well enough with less thanks to the constitution passives. Even more if you choose a Redguard or Bosmer.

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Anyron

BoxFoxx wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Invisibility is an issue mostly because how stamina is faster than magicka builds.

Detection potion and all counters to cloak are pointless against nightblade Swift builds mostly because you have, as magicka, limited stamina. Sprinting is impossible in no-cp even with shacklebreaker since you have stamina only for 1 roll and 1 CC break.

Then, keep up like that with nightblade in invisibility - much faster than you can be, starting and ending combat when he/she wants. Most of aoe magicka skills used in pvp are short-ranged and detection potion lasts only 12/45s

But even with all of this i prefer cyrodiil full of ganking Nbs than zergs.

Interesting observations... granted Cyrodiil is supposed to be a war zone, hence the zergs... wars generally have armies right?

It's funny how the term zerg gets thrown around these days. It used just mean a bunch of grouped up potatoes, now it's used in reference to any large number of players. ZOS tried to satisfy people who complain about "zergs" by creating battle grounds. I run in all sized groups personally. I've ran solo for a bit in Cyrodiil just to provoke NBs to attack me, but if you really want to enjoy Cyrodiil it's best to get into an organised group of skilled players, which has been my preference the last couple of weeks. We're rather unstoppable, only other skilled groups can be of any threat to us.

In regards to ganking NBs, I think about 1 in 10 can actually successfully pull off a gank. Ganking is much harder than it seems. You really have to commit to it. Personally, I could get bored ganking. I have way more fun capturing scrolls and helping crown Emp in our guild. The politics that happen between the alliances are funny too sometimes. We'll have spies trying to switch toons and join in our group and relay the information, discovering who they are is interesting. Anyway, there is way more to Cyrodiil than just getting kills. I have a lot of fun with it. It's practically all I do now when I sign on, aside for a few crafting writs and occasional trial run with my PvE guild.

In real, if you swing your sword or you shoot arrows, it can hit even your allies. In eso it cant.

If you have 50 players, randoms running together at least you can target some because they are not organised group by ts or discord.
But if you have 20 players, moving as one, spamming roots,snares and purge there is nothing you can do to counter this. Even negate isnt good because its just for 8 meters and works only on stamina

This is off-topic, so sorry, but i had to explain my post before

ItsNebula

Vietfox wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

You shoulda used Vol armor tbh..

but i fully agree.. i play a No Cloak Heavy Armor Stamblade and it works like a beauty.. i run Dark Cloak (the heal) instead of the invis version (mainly because i have self respect when playing a NB and i recognize that cloak is cheap and needs a nerf)
The damage is perfectly fine.. incap does need to lose the dmg bonus or the defile.. either or and its a fair game (or increase it to 125-150 ult) as incap gives WAY to much for how little it costs.

NBs that cry about "oh i need cloak to survive" are the same NBs that suck at other classes. I run my no cloak blade PERFECTLY FINE.. ive got 41k spell and physical resistances (with BS proc) and up to 4.2k wep dmg fully buffed and 1600 stam recov and i sustain just fine.

Cloak needs to last AT MAX 2 seconds, and if you use it again within 4 seconds its cost doubles (just like they did to streak) so they MUST be able to be seen for at least 2 seconds unless they wanna drain there magicka.

If me, and other good players (NBs in specific) can pull off a no cloak blade and do PERFECTLY fine on it, anyone else that puts the time and effort into it can as well. Yes its harder.. but if youre not trash at the game/class/PvP you can do it. Its just a L2P thing.

TLDR; No Cloak blade is better and MUCH stronger. Stats are 4k better than your average cloakblade as well o/

Just because you got your own made up rules doesn't mean others have to follow them. There are different playstyles and everyone is allowed to play how they like.
I got a no cloak stamblade on pc too, but that's my personal choice and i would never tell people how they should play.
If something needs to be nerfed is the heavy armor. Sets like ravager or seventh legion allowing the player to have the same damage as someone running light or medium armor is unbalanced.

I bet you’re either a NB main, or you’re bad at the other classes

Vietfox

ItsNebula wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

You shoulda used Vol armor tbh..

but i fully agree.. i play a No Cloak Heavy Armor Stamblade and it works like a beauty.. i run Dark Cloak (the heal) instead of the invis version (mainly because i have self respect when playing a NB and i recognize that cloak is cheap and needs a nerf)
The damage is perfectly fine.. incap does need to lose the dmg bonus or the defile.. either or and its a fair game (or increase it to 125-150 ult) as incap gives WAY to much for how little it costs.

NBs that cry about "oh i need cloak to survive" are the same NBs that suck at other classes. I run my no cloak blade PERFECTLY FINE.. ive got 41k spell and physical resistances (with BS proc) and up to 4.2k wep dmg fully buffed and 1600 stam recov and i sustain just fine.

Cloak needs to last AT MAX 2 seconds, and if you use it again within 4 seconds its cost doubles (just like they did to streak) so they MUST be able to be seen for at least 2 seconds unless they wanna drain there magicka.

If me, and other good players (NBs in specific) can pull off a no cloak blade and do PERFECTLY fine on it, anyone else that puts the time and effort into it can as well. Yes its harder.. but if youre not trash at the game/class/PvP you can do it. Its just a L2P thing.

TLDR; No Cloak blade is better and MUCH stronger. Stats are 4k better than your average cloakblade as well o/

Just because you got your own made up rules doesn't mean others have to follow them. There are different playstyles and everyone is allowed to play how they like.
I got a no cloak stamblade on pc too, but that's my personal choice and i would never tell people how they should play.
If something needs to be nerfed is the heavy armor. Sets like ravager or seventh legion allowing the player to have the same damage as someone running light or medium armor is unbalanced.

I bet you’re either a NB main, or you’re bad at the other classes

Good enough to not need to brag about my skills, unlike you.

evoniee

funny, nightblade is the most easy class to punish and have nothing beside damage, cloak and average toolkit.

BoxFoxx

hmmm... average tool kit?

MartiniDaniels

Insco851 wrote: »

Designed a DK to kill NB.... runs magelight .... when you have spiked armor, inhale, talons and fossilize...

L2P issue.

You may shoo away NB with volatile armor, but you won't catch skilled and cautious NB with it, especially in places where NB like to dwell. Of course radiant is excessive if you just playing without focus on killing NBs. But if you want to be exactly NB-hunter, it's a worlds difference. Radiant nullifies a lot of options for NB and turns their life to hell and drastically decreases chances to get away. And it's only about radiant, inner light and expert hunter are trash.
And what OP is saying is that means to counteract active defenses in ESO cost more then those defenses. Is this good or bad? Probably good in no-CP and bad in CP.

BoxFoxx

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Designed a DK to kill NB.... runs magelight .... when you have spiked armor, inhale, talons and fossilize...

L2P issue.

You may shoo away NB with volatile armor, but you won't catch skilled and cautious NB with it, especially in places where NB like to dwell. Of course radiant is excessive if you just playing without focus on killing NBs. But if you want to be exactly NB-hunter, it's a worlds difference. Radiant nullifies a lot of options for NB and turns their life to hell and drastically decreases chances to get away. And it's only about radiant, inner light and expert hunter are trash.
And what OP is saying is that means to counteract active defenses in ESO cost more then those defenses. Is this good or bad? Probably good in no-CP and bad in CP.

Thank you!

Insco851

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Designed a DK to kill NB.... runs magelight .... when you have spiked armor, inhale, talons and fossilize...

L2P issue.

You may shoo away NB with volatile armor, but you won't catch skilled and cautious NB with it, especially in places where NB like to dwell. Of course radiant is excessive if you just playing without focus on killing NBs. But if you want to be exactly NB-hunter, it's a worlds difference. Radiant nullifies a lot of options for NB and turns their life to hell and drastically decreases chances to get away. And it's only about radiant, inner light and expert hunter are trash.
And what OP is saying is that means to counteract active defenses in ESO cost more then those defenses. Is this good or bad? Probably good in no-CP and bad in CP.

If you are going solo... you don’t “catch” a NB. You trap them. And the DK kit imo has always been the easiest to do so after they jump on you. You aren’t chasing them down.

Now with the soft CC cooldown... that might be tougher next patch.

MartiniDaniels

Insco851 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Designed a DK to kill NB.... runs magelight .... when you have spiked armor, inhale, talons and fossilize...

L2P issue.

You may shoo away NB with volatile armor, but you won't catch skilled and cautious NB with it, especially in places where NB like to dwell. Of course radiant is excessive if you just playing without focus on killing NBs. But if you want to be exactly NB-hunter, it's a worlds difference. Radiant nullifies a lot of options for NB and turns their life to hell and drastically decreases chances to get away. And it's only about radiant, inner light and expert hunter are trash.
And what OP is saying is that means to counteract active defenses in ESO cost more then those defenses. Is this good or bad? Probably good in no-CP and bad in CP.

If you are going solo... you don’t “catch” a NB. You trap them. And the DK kit imo has always been the easiest to do so after they jump on you. You aren’t chasing them down.

Now with the soft CC cooldown... that might be tougher next patch.

Well, skilled NB will break free+roll-dodge/shuffle fast, so it is several consecutive fossilizes to put him down, it's like exchange of hits when he went to cloak, throws burst and you and then you catch him with fossilize and have couple of seconds to damage him and then it repeats.. this is really enjoyable, sometimes you win and sometimes NB, but problem is that many NB will simply disengage when feel that they are losing and radiant magelight really helps here. Also I play bosmer, so I think those extra 3m of detection make radiant more powerful, though it's hard to say for sure.

YOB

They do wonders!! trust me!
You will never cry on a forum again

deepseamk20b14_ESO

BoxFoxx wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

“Based on a NBs play style, if they can't make the kill off the get go, they should lose the fight.”

What? Because all NB’s are gankers right?

I apologize... I retract that comment (I am allowed to do that right, am I creating chaos?)...

Let me clarify... Where I was trying to get at with that was, if a NB should have only one shot at a stealth kill, if it's unsuccessful, in my opinion, there shouldn't be multiple chances for a stealth kill on the same target within a short time frame. The cost of stealth should be substantial enough that it would be a fight or flight scenario.

I get what you meant. It doesn’t make your reasoning any better. There is no way you could get what you want without negatively effecting non gankers.

I don’t think you understand the mechanics of ganking. Once you have failed the gank being able to cloak and attack again doesn’t give you the same benefits of the initial attempt.

If the person fails and runs away get over it. You’re alive. Go do something else and let the pleb be a pleb.

darkblue5

YOB wrote: »

They do wonders!! trust me!
You will never cry on a forum again

Well, if you think Detect Pots are a little bit too strong of a counter you might XD.

Azurya

it is ridicoulous that Cloak costs anything at all!!!
Bunny Jumping costs nothing,
as mag build I can smash down my aoe or dot and while it is up and working I can fire endless other attacks

Give stamina at last something the same, we don´t have any of these possibilities.

BoxFoxx

Although I wasn't crying, I was making a suggestion to for a modification to the skill that I think would work better all around. Thanks for your comments anyways.

BoxFoxx

Higher cost, longer duration... simple.

BoxFoxx

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

BoxFoxx wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

“Based on a NBs play style, if they can't make the kill off the get go, they should lose the fight.”

What? Because all NB’s are gankers right?

I apologize... I retract that comment (I am allowed to do that right, am I creating chaos?)...

Let me clarify... Where I was trying to get at with that was, if a NB should have only one shot at a stealth kill, if it's unsuccessful, in my opinion, there shouldn't be multiple chances for a stealth kill on the same target within a short time frame. The cost of stealth should be substantial enough that it would be a fight or flight scenario.

I get what you meant. It doesn’t make your reasoning any better. There is no way you could get what you want without negatively effecting non gankers.

I don’t think you understand the mechanics of ganking. Once you have failed the gank being able to cloak and attack again doesn’t give you the same benefits of the initial attempt.

If the person fails and runs away get over it. You’re alive. Go do something else and let the pleb be a pleb.

Are you even sure you know what you're talking about? How is making Shadowy Disguise more expensive yet last longer going to negatively effect non-gankers. You're just spewing words out without thinking about it. Is this some sort of trend here?

Please read the entire thread and try to actually understand the topic.

SidraWillowsky

BoxFoxx wrote: »

Higher cost, longer duration... simple.

As long as this doesn't negatively affect Magblades I actually agree- if there's a way to balance it out so that Magblades can still use it in the same manner (the duration balances out the cost; they have more mag and higher mag regen) while it's a bit more difficult for Stamblades to go invisible.

That said, I don't know how many people truly have an issue with this and how many stamblades can actually use Cloak THAT well. Players in my PvP guild don't seem to have a whole lot of trouble with them save one or two well-known "experts". And if it's just a few who use it and gain THAT much of an advantage? Hey, more power to them.

Sahidom

BoxFoxx wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Designed a DK to kill NB.... runs magelight .... when you have spiked armor, inhale, talons and fossilize...

L2P issue.

The gank prevent from Radiant Magelight is preferred... I'm fully aware of the other skills... I use fossilize as well.

EDIT: THIS TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT THE MAGELIGHT SKILL, IT IS ABOUT SUSTAINING INVISIBILITY DURING COMBAT.
I just had to make that clear since there seems to be some confusion and I can't edit the original post. Thanks!

Shadowy Disguise --> Invisibility & Major Expedition potions --> poof their gone and regained stealth elsewhere (or setting up to recover, build ultimate, and waiting to ambush again). Don't be mistaken for someone using both sources to stay invisible while someone burns out their resources "detecting."

ExistingRug61

I'm going to preface this by saying that that my comments are in the context of magNB, not stamNB which as others suggested can get much better mileage out of cloak by being able to combine it with dodge roll

@BoxFoxx, my interpretation of your comments is that you suggest a cost increase to cloak, potentially with an associated duration increase, because you don’t believe that invisibility should be able to be used in an extended fight, as if they are playing the stealthy route they should basically only get one shot to kill otherwise flee or die.

I disagree with your suggestion as I think it would push nightblades that want to play stealthy to go full ganker to be successful, and that if you want to be able to go toe to toe you have to give up stealth and play as a brawler.

You are overlooking one of the other, and in my opinion enjoyable, ways of playing a magNB, where you play in light armour and your primary defence is to avoid damage. This playstyle is built more around sustain than damage, which means you can’t gank but instead defeat players by going toe to toe. However you do it in a rogue like way, trying to evade damage and make it hard for the opponent to lock you down while keeping the pressure on. Playing like this cloak becomes an offensive and defensive tool that is weaved among other abilities to either set up opportune crits, stuns with concealed weapon, or evade your opponents burst as you simply can’t afford to take high damage at once due to no real burst heal. Often cloak would not be used for more than a GCD as staying cloaked for longer gives up all pressure put on the opponent. Having an increase cost on cloak would have a large negative effect on this playstyle, and the suggested duration increase would be of no benefit.

Now, you may find that this playstyle annoying or frustrating to play against, but I don’t think it is an overpowered use of cloak. Instead I find it really comes down to you vs the opponent using the right skill at the right time and this can be quite an enjoyable tactical challenge for both. For example if I predict an opponents skill that I can cloak to evade and then can follow up with an immediate concealed, I gain the advantage. But if the opponent predicts the cloak and use something that counters it and applies pressure (basically any aoe) just as I use it my magicka spent is effectively wasted, plus I take damage, and I am suddenly at a severe disadvantage.

Obviously my opinion in this matter is bias as I primarily play magNB, but I just wanted to contribute my experience playing the class and point out that your suggested change would definitely negatively affect non-ganker magNB that still want to be able to play in a "rogue" style.

darkblue5

Sahidom wrote: »

BoxFoxx wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Designed a DK to kill NB.... runs magelight .... when you have spiked armor, inhale, talons and fossilize...

L2P issue.

The gank prevent from Radiant Magelight is preferred... I'm fully aware of the other skills... I use fossilize as well.

EDIT: THIS TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT THE MAGELIGHT SKILL, IT IS ABOUT SUSTAINING INVISIBILITY DURING COMBAT.
I just had to make that clear since there seems to be some confusion and I can't edit the original post. Thanks!

Shadowy Disguise --> Invisibility & Major Expedition potions --> poof their gone and regained stealth elsewhere (or setting up to recover, build ultimate, and waiting to ambush again). Don't be mistaken for someone using both sources to stay invisible while someone burns out their resources "detecting."

This is one of the secrets to "perma cloaking" stamblades. The other is some stamblades have run Shackle and even a mag regen glyph. Shackle doesn't really let you perma perma cloak but with losing damage via a mag regen glyph and sometimes using a tri-pot you can cloak many times.

The other big secret is actually going back into stealth after damage if you didn't use a DOT ability. Or even if you did but the you have to sustain Shadowy Disguise for longer.

Honestly a majority of the time repeatedly engaging from stealth and disengaging will lead to a stalemate at best and leaves a lot of time for 10 people to run over to play *hunt the nightblade*. PvPers seem to love that game. If you never commit to a kill on a stamblade you usually win that game but also never PvP. Magblade loses that game more often due to snare spam and having the dodge roll into cloak into dodge roll be a much riskier move considering stuns.

TLDR permacloaking stamblades have to make some real sacrifices to permacloak but a lot of cases of "perma-cloaking" could also be re-entering stealth or Invis pots. If a stamblade want to not PvP often they can decide to not PvP but that doesn't mean they can kill people without getting mowed down by AOEs or destroyed by Detect Pots.

BoxFoxx

...ganking is a side point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z7zZ3LbGx4