Nightblade in Support Roles [Tank and Healer] for PVE Needs Help

KatySpirit

AKA a dissertation on PVE nightblades that aren't damage dealers. So much is focused on DPS when the weakest point in this class are the tanks and healers. Things were okay...and then we started taking nerfs left and right, and at this point I cannot find a lot of reasons to even defend playing this class a healer or tank. And I happen to main a nightblade healer, so that's pretty sad.

Reasons to play NB healer: We get some really nice passives that help with our healing done. We have really good ultimate regeneration so lots of warn horns.
Reasons to play NB tank: Until Elsweyr goes live we have good survivabilty. We have really good ultimate regeneration so... lots of warn horns.

Unfortunately that is all I can come up with. As healers we have no unique synergies (seriously, I pull out Blood Fountain and an apology letter if I am with an Alkosh tank). Our burst heal is really strong but it misses if there are other people or pets in the way and recasting it quickly can actually kill us. We used to do a bit of damage but that's gone. Even Templar's giant round equivalent to Path actually does damage AND has a synergy. Two of our main, class healing skills have been nerfed really harshly and the other is unreliable. As tanks and healers both we offer a total of one group buff (besides Major Expedition which is virtually useless in PVE) and it's an ultimate...so I think that War Horn is generally better.

I want this class to be good, I want people not to groan when they see they ended up in a random with a support nigthblade, and I believe it has the potential. The healing passive makes it seem like it should be a great healer and all the defensive buffs we have make a surprisingly good foundation for a tank. Unfortunately, it seems that these roles take backseat (or ejection seat) to the nightblade DPS. When the DPS over perform, it is the tanks and healers that take the hardest hits. So here are some suggestions, compiled in one thread. Is nigthblade the only class that needs help? No. I think sorcerer needs help in group utility and I am sure that DK and Templar feel they need help being DPS because they have so much that is based around group play. This is a result of the four classes starting with more narrow roles than we want them to have, than the devs say they should have, and than what has been designed on newer classes. It's time to act on it. I want all of us to be valuable and important in group content, regardless of role. This is an MMO, after all. But since I main a nightblade, I can only offer insight on this class. It is up to you to offer it for the others.

Dark Cloak.
This skill needs a front loaded heal to keep nigthblade tanks competitive in very difficult content. Ideally something like 12% of max health in first tick followed by slowly getting the other 20% needed to round off to 32% total over the remaining 7 seconds. I don't use this skill for the healing unless the situation is dire, such as when tanking a trial or recovering from a very hard hit, and in those cases no one wants a heal over time.

Alternatively, if DPS using it for a burst is a problem, scale the healing percentage of the first tick based on how many pieces of heavy armor are being used by 1% per piece. There is already a passive in this skill line that scales on heavy armor so there is no reason not to do this. For example: no heavy is still 4.5%, 1 is 5.5%, 2 is 6.5%, etc. 5 would give you 9.5% and the max would be 11.5% for all heavy. This would keep the skill as proposed for DPS so mostly just a defense buff for them, but allow it to function on tanks as an emergency heal as it was first meant to be last year.

Funnel Health.
Increase the damage of this skill to make it worth using again because right now it is weaker than Mutagen. It should do closer to the level of damage that Swallow Soul does because healers using it will not be pulling the damage numbers that a DPS is. It should still do less damage than Swallow to make it undesirable for DPS, maybe 10-20% less damage, but keep the increased healing percentage (percentage can be modified if needed, but just make sure it heals for a solid about). It only ticks every other second, it really should be better than it currently is.

Healthy/Shrewd Offering.
This skill should be guaranteed to hit the lowest health ally within range and not require aiming. Sacrificing health should always result in a successful heal, and this isn't a skill that will be spammed anyway (like Breath of Life of the Twilight) cause you'll die. It should also NEVER hit a pet (bear, clannfear, scamp, twilight) because they don't even die in dungeons/trials anymore and I'm sorry but the healer is never concerned about healing them.

(Also Earthgore should not proc on pets, especially now that it only hits one target, but that's a whole different pile of salt.)

Refreshing Path.
Ideally add damage back to Refreshing Path. Not a lot, less than Twisting, but some damage. Maybe slightly increase the damage of Twisting Path, since it is very low right now compared to similar skills from other classes, to encourage DPS to chose that one.
Change Major Expedition to Minor Vitality for all allies on the path (both morphs). Tank and healer can buff group this way. Even a DPS can help the tank and stamina DPS who would likely be standing on Twisting Path. Remove the damage mitigation from Grim Focus to make up for this change because 15% mitigation is ridiculous, but also give the PVPers Major Expedition on something cause I know they like it.

Mark Target.
The skill should apply a different debuff than the tank has, maybe Minor instead of Major Fracture/Breach, or something else that can help the group like Lifesteal instead of healing only you when the target dies. Tank or healer could use this to help the group. It totally fits with the deal damage to heal idea. I don't mind if this skill isn't free if it offers something more interesting. It should absolutely be purgable in PVP if it isn't. And I mean with Purge.

(Purge needs to be examined because there are a lot of things it can't purge.)

Nightblade Synergies.
Currently these are only on ultimates and both require you be at the location. Boring?????
Take the synergy from one of them (Soul Leech makes the most sense I think) and put it on Cripple. Allies within range of the afflicted enemy can use the synergy. If the synergy as it appears on the ultimate is too strong for a regular ability, weaken it. Path would work for a synergy too, and in that case maybe take the Hidden Refresh synergy from the Shadow ultimate instead. The main use is having a synergy that doesn't cost ultimate.

I totally get it that things end up having different values and uses in PVE as opposed to PVP. I don't really know how to fix that, but I also don't want either being nerfed because of the other. Feel free to chime in with your own suggestions, I'm just trying to put out ideas for helping nightblade tanks and healers do more in group content for PVE. Thanks!

Iskiab

I generally agree with you but a couple things with suggestion:

Healthy Offering: I don’t know if it can hit pets, but it’s already a smart heal that doesn’t require targeting. It’s the lowest health target you’re facing.

Path: Adding damage would be great, maybe increase the size... but a synergy should definitely be added. I think that’s the missing piece for NB healers. Even path being a larger area with a synergy for expedition would be better, tanks need synergies for sustain moreso then healing.

WrathOfInnos

The ability to keep 100% uptime on Minor Vulnerability could be really cool for healers (no longer need IA), but tying it to Lotus Fan just makes it really awkward to utilize. Maybe this could be moved to Mark Target.

The other interesting new change for Nightblade healers is the Minor Magicka Steal on Debilitate. DPS will still choose Crippling Grasp, but healers will now be able to deal a little damage while providing this debuff, and can drop Ele Drain in certain situations (Major Breach already applied).

For tanks the new 15% mitigation will be huge, but they did also lose their best self-heal.

I completely agree with your suggestions about Funnel and Path. Major Expedition should be on Cripple, not Path. Path can have Minor Vitality instead of Swallow. Refreshing Path needs a little damage, Twisting needs more.

KatySpirit

Iskiab wrote: »

I generally agree with you but a couple things with suggestion:

Healthy Offering: I don’t know if it can hit pets, but it’s already a smart heal that doesn’t require targeting. It’s the lowest health target you’re facing.

Path: Adding damage would be great, maybe increase the size... but a synergy should definitely be added. I think that’s the missing piece for NB healers. Even path being a larger area with a synergy for expedition would be better, tanks need synergies for sustain moreso then healing.

Oh, it is cone? I feel like it always hits a melee DPS when I am aiming for the tank, but maybe it's bad timing on the DPS' health and they are the ones that need it most thanks for letting me know, I used it more back when I could see who it was hitting but if it is smart aiming now then that would be why allies don't glow blue anymore!

We desperately need a synergy, I agree. The only reason I suggested Cripple as well is that it can be range cast. Either skill, ANY skill, would make me happy to have a synergy on it.

Iskiab

Yea, just compare path to ritual and you’ll get jealous. Ritual (and to a lesser extent breath of life) is the class defining skill for Templars so path shouldn’t be as powerful... but as a skill vs skill comparison path is worse in every way.

Refreshing path ticks twice as often, but ritual can do damage and heal on top of size, synergy and cleanse so I’d prefer it any day of the week.

jypcy

Generally agree with OP from tanking perspective. I haven’t had a healblade for quite some time so don’t have anything to offer there.

To add, I think another bonus of tankblades is bar space. I only really “need” leeching strikes and dark cloak (and pierce armor) so all the rest of my bar space is open for whatever the group needs. Even the almighty dk typically needs more than that. Unfortunately, with the proposed dark cloak nerf, we’ll probably need 1+ more abilities to be able to survive, taking away this advantage as well. And from what I hear, tankcro ulti gen has the potential to eat any other class’ for breakfast.

Iskiab

Yea, maybe the solution is to change merciless to a % Health heal. Stam/magblades dps apparently don’t care about the heal. Healers in pve will only care about the damage. PvP only about the mitigation.

It won’t be a dps buff like dps Nightblades want but that looks like it isn’t in the cards anyways.

jypcy

Iskiab wrote: »

Yea, maybe the solution is to change merciless to a % Health heal. Stam/magblades dps apparently don’t care about the heal. Healers in pve will only care about the damage. PvP only about the mitigation.

It won’t be a dps buff like dps Nightblades want but that looks like it isn’t in the cards anyways.

This is what I’ve been advocating for. For tanking it makes sense: build up stacks for mitigation, eat a heavy attack, fire the bow to recover. As a damage based heal it wouldn’t do much to help a tank, but if it was a nice health-based one I’d even shut up about the changes to dark cloak lol. Then the stam morph could have the increased duration and the mag morph could keep minor berserk. Stam dmg output is justifiably nerfed, mag dmg output isn’t touched, both stam and magblades get a little added tankiness, and tankblades can keep an actually useful self-heal.

Both tank and healblades could still stand to get some group utility but I’m okay saving that for another patch if it just means retaining a better degree of self-survivability than my poor tankplars.

twing1_

I'm a big fan of the front loaded dark cloak heal and also a big fan of moving minor vulnerability to mark target instead of teleport strike.

As great as grim focus may be for NB tanks, sadly this will not be slotted because it offers no group utility. It will still be mainly used as a DPS skill. The mitigation it now provides is almost exclusively a PvP change, as damage dealers do not need this and will fire the bow proc as soon as its ready, draining the mitigation stacks.

I feel like refreshing path doesn't need its damage back, as this is 100% a utility skill (providing great group support in major expedition and heals). It does, however, need a synergy to further emphasize this role. Perhaps a synergy a single ally can use to "refresh" their resources in the form of restoring 3960 of their primary resource? Or maybe, to differentiate this from orbs/shards, even secondary resource would suffice (possibly opening the door for magicka tanks, sap tank plz?).

Edit: but yes, NB in support roles have been getting hit pretty hard for quite some time and need some love. Even the addition of minor vulnerability on teleport strike (which may have been intended to help NB healers/tanks) will largely go unused because of the clunkiness of its use.

Silver_Strider

The solution would be to add more utility to the class.

Debilitate giving Minor Magickasteal is cute but honestly really niche and doesn't branch out the class enough on its own, especially considering that E-Drain is just better overall. Mark Target also doesn't bring anything useful for NB in terms of utility since Fracture/Breech are commonplace in practically all forms of PvE content that its redundant as well. Don't get me started on Major Expedition as utility with Path.

Personally, if they want Debilitate to be a utility skill, why not put the Minor Vulnerability from Teleport Strike there instead? That way, it's a legitimate utility skill worth running and keeps the "Nerf Spambush" threads at bay. Then, we can move the Minor Magickasteal from Debilitate and put it on Mark Target instead. As for Refreshing Path, personally, I'd like for Minor Endurance/Intellect to find their way onto this skill so as to make it live up to its namesake and while it would be somewhat of a low ball utility, it would still be better than Major Expedition for allies, that's for sure.

Ofc, I can see people complaining these suggestions giving NB offer too much utility, and if so, I'm fine with leaving out the Minor Endurance/Intellect from Refreshing Path if they made the radius of Twisting Path the default size for the entire skill. That way, we might actually be able to have people be healed by the skill since people just immediately run out of it thanks to the Major Expedition on it with its current size. The rest of the suggestions is just moving around the buffs they gave to other skills so we already have them in the class, they're just in different skills. No Magblade wants to use Lotus Fan to fight in PvP since its practically suicide and Mark Target is still lackluster to use, despite being free to cast, since it doesn't do anything really useful that adding Minor Magickasteal would make the skill actually something worth running; Hell, make Minor Magickasteal the debuff for Reaper's Mark and take off the Major Berserk since that way, you can't have a PvP reveal+Magicka steal all in 1 complete package so no PvP shenanigans and it makes Reaper's Mark worth something.

actosh

Silver_Strider wrote: »

The solution would be to add more utility to the class.

Debilitate giving Minor Magickasteal is cute but honestly really niche and doesn't branch out the class enough on its own, especially considering that E-Drain is just better overall. Mark Target also doesn't bring anything useful for NB in terms of utility since Fracture/Breech are commonplace in practically all forms of PvE content that its redundant as well. Don't get me started on Major Expedition as utility with Path.

Personally, if they want Debilitate to be a utility skill, why not put the Minor Vulnerability from Teleport Strike there instead? That way, it's a legitimate utility skill worth running and keeps the "Nerf Spambush" threads at bay. Then, we can move the Minor Magickasteal from Debilitate and put it on Mark Target instead. As for Refreshing Path, personally, I'd like for Minor Endurance/Intellect to find their way onto this skill so as to make it live up to its namesake and while it would be somewhat of a low ball utility, it would still be better than Major Expedition for allies, that's for sure.

Ofc, I can see people complaining these suggestions giving NB offer too much utility, and if so, I'm fine with leaving out the Minor Endurance/Intellect from Refreshing Path if they made the radius of Twisting Path the default size for the entire skill. That way, we might actually be able to have people be healed by the skill since people just immediately run out of it thanks to the Major Expedition on it with its current size. The rest of the suggestions is just moving around the buffs they gave to other skills so we already have them in the class, they're just in different skills. No Magblade wants to use Lotus Fan to fight in PvP since its practically suicide and Mark Target is still lackluster to use, despite being free to cast, since it doesn't do anything really useful that adding Minor Magickasteal would make the skill actually something worth running; Hell, make Minor Magickasteal the debuff for Reaper's Mark and take off the Major Berserk since that way, you can't have a PvP reveal+Magicka steal all in 1 complete package so no PvP shenanigans and it makes Reaper's Mark worth something.

Sounds ok to me, still miss something special other classes cant bring into the grp as well *looking at you warden and dk* ^^
And a synergy thats not locked to an ultimate ability.....

Silver_Strider

actosh wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

The solution would be to add more utility to the class.

Debilitate giving Minor Magickasteal is cute but honestly really niche and doesn't branch out the class enough on its own, especially considering that E-Drain is just better overall. Mark Target also doesn't bring anything useful for NB in terms of utility since Fracture/Breech are commonplace in practically all forms of PvE content that its redundant as well. Don't get me started on Major Expedition as utility with Path.

Personally, if they want Debilitate to be a utility skill, why not put the Minor Vulnerability from Teleport Strike there instead? That way, it's a legitimate utility skill worth running and keeps the "Nerf Spambush" threads at bay. Then, we can move the Minor Magickasteal from Debilitate and put it on Mark Target instead. As for Refreshing Path, personally, I'd like for Minor Endurance/Intellect to find their way onto this skill so as to make it live up to its namesake and while it would be somewhat of a low ball utility, it would still be better than Major Expedition for allies, that's for sure.

Ofc, I can see people complaining these suggestions giving NB offer too much utility, and if so, I'm fine with leaving out the Minor Endurance/Intellect from Refreshing Path if they made the radius of Twisting Path the default size for the entire skill. That way, we might actually be able to have people be healed by the skill since people just immediately run out of it thanks to the Major Expedition on it with its current size. The rest of the suggestions is just moving around the buffs they gave to other skills so we already have them in the class, they're just in different skills. No Magblade wants to use Lotus Fan to fight in PvP since its practically suicide and Mark Target is still lackluster to use, despite being free to cast, since it doesn't do anything really useful that adding Minor Magickasteal would make the skill actually something worth running; Hell, make Minor Magickasteal the debuff for Reaper's Mark and take off the Major Berserk since that way, you can't have a PvP reveal+Magicka steal all in 1 complete package so no PvP shenanigans and it makes Reaper's Mark worth something.

Sounds ok to me, still miss something special other classes cant bring into the grp as well *looking at you warden and dk* ^^
And a synergy thats not locked to an ultimate ability.....

Have Blur offer a synergy that grants 6 party members Major Evasion. A defensive synergy that prevents NB DPS from rising, offers a pretty good buff that is somewhat rare, at least for Magic builds, and is something unique to NB because people can't be bothered to run Gossamer (or don't because better options exist). Only other place I can think of that a synergy would work would be Path of Darkness but I couldn't really think of a good effect for Path so I just used a suggestion I've listed several times in the past because I still feel its a good effect that helps everyone out without contributing to power creep.

Iskiab

Yea, it’s weird. For NB healers the issue is no synergy in pve so most would prefer path’s expedition to come in synergy form. The synergy for tank sustain is more important than healing output.

For tanks it’s a bit of self healing.

PvE in ESO is such a weird setup. Synergies for tanks are more important than healing output for pve healers, and tanks prefer self healing. It’s weird but that’s the reality.

WrathOfInnos

Silver_Strider wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

The solution would be to add more utility to the class.

Debilitate giving Minor Magickasteal is cute but honestly really niche and doesn't branch out the class enough on its own, especially considering that E-Drain is just better overall. Mark Target also doesn't bring anything useful for NB in terms of utility since Fracture/Breech are commonplace in practically all forms of PvE content that its redundant as well. Don't get me started on Major Expedition as utility with Path.

Personally, if they want Debilitate to be a utility skill, why not put the Minor Vulnerability from Teleport Strike there instead? That way, it's a legitimate utility skill worth running and keeps the "Nerf Spambush" threads at bay. Then, we can move the Minor Magickasteal from Debilitate and put it on Mark Target instead. As for Refreshing Path, personally, I'd like for Minor Endurance/Intellect to find their way onto this skill so as to make it live up to its namesake and while it would be somewhat of a low ball utility, it would still be better than Major Expedition for allies, that's for sure.

Ofc, I can see people complaining these suggestions giving NB offer too much utility, and if so, I'm fine with leaving out the Minor Endurance/Intellect from Refreshing Path if they made the radius of Twisting Path the default size for the entire skill. That way, we might actually be able to have people be healed by the skill since people just immediately run out of it thanks to the Major Expedition on it with its current size. The rest of the suggestions is just moving around the buffs they gave to other skills so we already have them in the class, they're just in different skills. No Magblade wants to use Lotus Fan to fight in PvP since its practically suicide and Mark Target is still lackluster to use, despite being free to cast, since it doesn't do anything really useful that adding Minor Magickasteal would make the skill actually something worth running; Hell, make Minor Magickasteal the debuff for Reaper's Mark and take off the Major Berserk since that way, you can't have a PvP reveal+Magicka steal all in 1 complete package so no PvP shenanigans and it makes Reaper's Mark worth something.

Sounds ok to me, still miss something special other classes cant bring into the grp as well *looking at you warden and dk* ^^
And a synergy thats not locked to an ultimate ability.....

Have Blur offer a synergy that grants 6 party members Major Evasion. A defensive synergy that prevents NB DPS from rising, offers a pretty good buff that is somewhat rare, at least for Magic builds, and is something unique to NB because people can't be bothered to run Gossamer (or don't because better options exist). Only other place I can think of that a synergy would work would be Path of Darkness but I couldn't really think of a good effect for Path so I just used a suggestion I've listed several times in the past because I still feel its a good effect that helps everyone out without contributing to power creep.

I like the idea of providing evasion to a group. I think Major Evasion would be too powerful though. Maybe Path could give Minor Evasion to allies standing within it? That could replace the Major Expedition on Path (and it could be moved to something else, preferably Cripple).

Kolzki

Perhaps a synergy for minor vitality on path? Or minor intellect/endurance? At the moment it’s just another heal over time as every magblade in group is providing expedition.

Silver_Strider

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

The solution would be to add more utility to the class.

Debilitate giving Minor Magickasteal is cute but honestly really niche and doesn't branch out the class enough on its own, especially considering that E-Drain is just better overall. Mark Target also doesn't bring anything useful for NB in terms of utility since Fracture/Breech are commonplace in practically all forms of PvE content that its redundant as well. Don't get me started on Major Expedition as utility with Path.

Personally, if they want Debilitate to be a utility skill, why not put the Minor Vulnerability from Teleport Strike there instead? That way, it's a legitimate utility skill worth running and keeps the "Nerf Spambush" threads at bay. Then, we can move the Minor Magickasteal from Debilitate and put it on Mark Target instead. As for Refreshing Path, personally, I'd like for Minor Endurance/Intellect to find their way onto this skill so as to make it live up to its namesake and while it would be somewhat of a low ball utility, it would still be better than Major Expedition for allies, that's for sure.

Ofc, I can see people complaining these suggestions giving NB offer too much utility, and if so, I'm fine with leaving out the Minor Endurance/Intellect from Refreshing Path if they made the radius of Twisting Path the default size for the entire skill. That way, we might actually be able to have people be healed by the skill since people just immediately run out of it thanks to the Major Expedition on it with its current size. The rest of the suggestions is just moving around the buffs they gave to other skills so we already have them in the class, they're just in different skills. No Magblade wants to use Lotus Fan to fight in PvP since its practically suicide and Mark Target is still lackluster to use, despite being free to cast, since it doesn't do anything really useful that adding Minor Magickasteal would make the skill actually something worth running; Hell, make Minor Magickasteal the debuff for Reaper's Mark and take off the Major Berserk since that way, you can't have a PvP reveal+Magicka steal all in 1 complete package so no PvP shenanigans and it makes Reaper's Mark worth something.

Sounds ok to me, still miss something special other classes cant bring into the grp as well *looking at you warden and dk* ^^
And a synergy thats not locked to an ultimate ability.....

Have Blur offer a synergy that grants 6 party members Major Evasion. A defensive synergy that prevents NB DPS from rising, offers a pretty good buff that is somewhat rare, at least for Magic builds, and is something unique to NB because people can't be bothered to run Gossamer (or don't because better options exist). Only other place I can think of that a synergy would work would be Path of Darkness but I couldn't really think of a good effect for Path so I just used a suggestion I've listed several times in the past because I still feel its a good effect that helps everyone out without contributing to power creep.

I like the idea of providing evasion to a group. I think Major Evasion would be too powerful though. Maybe Path could give Minor Evasion to allies standing within it? That could replace the Major Expedition on Path (and it could be moved to something else, preferably Cripple).

The thing is though that, despite Major Evasion being as powerful as it is, it's just not being utilized much if at all, outside of maybe Blade Cloak for Stamina builds but even that has seen a decline in use ever since they nerfed 1h enchantments. In terms of PvE, Major Evasion is a side thing for most, nice to have but not necessary by any means so why not make it a utility that NB offer since no other class has that available within class, unlike Minor Evasion, which at least Warden has access to. As for PvP, since ZOS just finished killing off Medium Armor for everyone and reinforced the Tank Meta, it might be more problematic if a group utilized Major Evasion more often to make themselves even harder to kill (which I can tell you from personal experience running Gossamer in PvP, works amazingly well) but considering how often I see PvPers actually use a synergy, I can't imagine Blur having a synergy to provide it would be problematic for that reason alone but I do see it still being problematic if the PvP crowd ever wises up a bit in terms of group coordination outside of "Follow Crown and Ulti Dump on queue".

Iskiab

Silver_Strider wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

The solution would be to add more utility to the class.

Debilitate giving Minor Magickasteal is cute but honestly really niche and doesn't branch out the class enough on its own, especially considering that E-Drain is just better overall. Mark Target also doesn't bring anything useful for NB in terms of utility since Fracture/Breech are commonplace in practically all forms of PvE content that its redundant as well. Don't get me started on Major Expedition as utility with Path.

Personally, if they want Debilitate to be a utility skill, why not put the Minor Vulnerability from Teleport Strike there instead? That way, it's a legitimate utility skill worth running and keeps the "Nerf Spambush" threads at bay. Then, we can move the Minor Magickasteal from Debilitate and put it on Mark Target instead. As for Refreshing Path, personally, I'd like for Minor Endurance/Intellect to find their way onto this skill so as to make it live up to its namesake and while it would be somewhat of a low ball utility, it would still be better than Major Expedition for allies, that's for sure.

Ofc, I can see people complaining these suggestions giving NB offer too much utility, and if so, I'm fine with leaving out the Minor Endurance/Intellect from Refreshing Path if they made the radius of Twisting Path the default size for the entire skill. That way, we might actually be able to have people be healed by the skill since people just immediately run out of it thanks to the Major Expedition on it with its current size. The rest of the suggestions is just moving around the buffs they gave to other skills so we already have them in the class, they're just in different skills. No Magblade wants to use Lotus Fan to fight in PvP since its practically suicide and Mark Target is still lackluster to use, despite being free to cast, since it doesn't do anything really useful that adding Minor Magickasteal would make the skill actually something worth running; Hell, make Minor Magickasteal the debuff for Reaper's Mark and take off the Major Berserk since that way, you can't have a PvP reveal+Magicka steal all in 1 complete package so no PvP shenanigans and it makes Reaper's Mark worth something.

Sounds ok to me, still miss something special other classes cant bring into the grp as well *looking at you warden and dk* ^^
And a synergy thats not locked to an ultimate ability.....

Have Blur offer a synergy that grants 6 party members Major Evasion. A defensive synergy that prevents NB DPS from rising, offers a pretty good buff that is somewhat rare, at least for Magic builds, and is something unique to NB because people can't be bothered to run Gossamer (or don't because better options exist). Only other place I can think of that a synergy would work would be Path of Darkness but I couldn't really think of a good effect for Path so I just used a suggestion I've listed several times in the past because I still feel its a good effect that helps everyone out without contributing to power creep.

I like the idea of providing evasion to a group. I think Major Evasion would be too powerful though. Maybe Path could give Minor Evasion to allies standing within it? That could replace the Major Expedition on Path (and it could be moved to something else, preferably Cripple).

The thing is though that, despite Major Evasion being as powerful as it is, it's just not being utilized much if at all, outside of maybe Blade Cloak for Stamina builds but even that has seen a decline in use ever since they nerfed 1h enchantments. In terms of PvE, Major Evasion is a side thing for most, nice to have but not necessary by any means so why not make it a utility that NB offer since no other class has that available within class, unlike Minor Evasion, which at least Warden has access to. As for PvP, since ZOS just finished killing off Medium Armor for everyone and reinforced the Tank Meta, it might be more problematic if a group utilized Major Evasion more often to make themselves even harder to kill (which I can tell you from personal experience running Gossamer in PvP, works amazingly well) but considering how often I see PvPers actually use a synergy, I can't imagine Blur having a synergy to provide it would be problematic for that reason alone but I do see it still being problematic if the PvP crowd ever wises up a bit in terms of group coordination outside of "Follow Crown and Ulti Dump on queue".

Sounds like moreso an issue with your pvp group. The longer you play the more you realize how powerful synergies are, maybe a lot of new players?

With aoe damage buffed across the board on PTS major evasion synergy sounds a little OP to me. Next to major protection, major evasion is the best defensive buff... especially in pvp.

Silver_Strider

Iskiab wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

The solution would be to add more utility to the class.

Debilitate giving Minor Magickasteal is cute but honestly really niche and doesn't branch out the class enough on its own, especially considering that E-Drain is just better overall. Mark Target also doesn't bring anything useful for NB in terms of utility since Fracture/Breech are commonplace in practically all forms of PvE content that its redundant as well. Don't get me started on Major Expedition as utility with Path.

Personally, if they want Debilitate to be a utility skill, why not put the Minor Vulnerability from Teleport Strike there instead? That way, it's a legitimate utility skill worth running and keeps the "Nerf Spambush" threads at bay. Then, we can move the Minor Magickasteal from Debilitate and put it on Mark Target instead. As for Refreshing Path, personally, I'd like for Minor Endurance/Intellect to find their way onto this skill so as to make it live up to its namesake and while it would be somewhat of a low ball utility, it would still be better than Major Expedition for allies, that's for sure.

Ofc, I can see people complaining these suggestions giving NB offer too much utility, and if so, I'm fine with leaving out the Minor Endurance/Intellect from Refreshing Path if they made the radius of Twisting Path the default size for the entire skill. That way, we might actually be able to have people be healed by the skill since people just immediately run out of it thanks to the Major Expedition on it with its current size. The rest of the suggestions is just moving around the buffs they gave to other skills so we already have them in the class, they're just in different skills. No Magblade wants to use Lotus Fan to fight in PvP since its practically suicide and Mark Target is still lackluster to use, despite being free to cast, since it doesn't do anything really useful that adding Minor Magickasteal would make the skill actually something worth running; Hell, make Minor Magickasteal the debuff for Reaper's Mark and take off the Major Berserk since that way, you can't have a PvP reveal+Magicka steal all in 1 complete package so no PvP shenanigans and it makes Reaper's Mark worth something.

Sounds ok to me, still miss something special other classes cant bring into the grp as well *looking at you warden and dk* ^^
And a synergy thats not locked to an ultimate ability.....

Have Blur offer a synergy that grants 6 party members Major Evasion. A defensive synergy that prevents NB DPS from rising, offers a pretty good buff that is somewhat rare, at least for Magic builds, and is something unique to NB because people can't be bothered to run Gossamer (or don't because better options exist). Only other place I can think of that a synergy would work would be Path of Darkness but I couldn't really think of a good effect for Path so I just used a suggestion I've listed several times in the past because I still feel its a good effect that helps everyone out without contributing to power creep.

I like the idea of providing evasion to a group. I think Major Evasion would be too powerful though. Maybe Path could give Minor Evasion to allies standing within it? That could replace the Major Expedition on Path (and it could be moved to something else, preferably Cripple).

The thing is though that, despite Major Evasion being as powerful as it is, it's just not being utilized much if at all, outside of maybe Blade Cloak for Stamina builds but even that has seen a decline in use ever since they nerfed 1h enchantments. In terms of PvE, Major Evasion is a side thing for most, nice to have but not necessary by any means so why not make it a utility that NB offer since no other class has that available within class, unlike Minor Evasion, which at least Warden has access to. As for PvP, since ZOS just finished killing off Medium Armor for everyone and reinforced the Tank Meta, it might be more problematic if a group utilized Major Evasion more often to make themselves even harder to kill (which I can tell you from personal experience running Gossamer in PvP, works amazingly well) but considering how often I see PvPers actually use a synergy, I can't imagine Blur having a synergy to provide it would be problematic for that reason alone but I do see it still being problematic if the PvP crowd ever wises up a bit in terms of group coordination outside of "Follow Crown and Ulti Dump on queue".

Sounds like moreso an issue with your pvp group. The longer you play the more you realize how powerful synergies are, maybe a lot of new players?

With aoe damage buffed across the board on PTS major evasion synergy sounds a little OP to me. Next to major protection, major evasion is the best defensive buff... especially in pvp.

I meant it more for the PvP community as a whole. While my PvP group does use synergies, I notice that a lot of other people in PvP just don't for some reason. It's crazy how often I see Orbs, Novas, Bone Shields, etc. just go unused that I feel like, even if NB did have a synergy on Blur to give Major Evasion to others, I couldn't honestly see people utilizing them in much the same way that Gossamer is a underappreciated PvP Healer set that is just being slept on by the masses. I expect Major Evasion to be everywhere in PvP come Elsweyr but if its already going to be everywhere, would it really be a problem? If its already there, its somewhat redundant to have more of it since it doesn't stack. If anything, making it give Minor Evasion would be even worse since now you can stack the 2 for even more AoE mitigation than just the one form.

IDK, I still feel like Major Evasion via Blur synergy would be the ideal way to go but I'll just agree to disagree on it.

Karacule_Fairystar

Nightblades need synergies!