Walking discussion

Reaper_00

Swiftfox_Bouncyface wrote: »

Often we can see a single player walking around a rock or other obstacle, using them as line of sight object to protect themselves from the other players - usually to turn around at one point and try to catch them by suprise and unbuffed with intention of killing. That makes it nearly impossible for a large group of unexperienced players to win against someone more experienced.

I don’t agree that this is a problem that needs mechanics changes to solve. It just needs common sense. What always amazes me is that a group of players will run after a player for several minutes around the same rock or tower without realising that they can actually run in the opposite direction (or even stand still) and cut them off, cc them and take them down.

InvictusApollo

Reaper_00 wrote: »

Swiftfox_Bouncyface wrote: »

Often we can see a single player walking around a rock or other obstacle, using them as line of sight object to protect themselves from the other players - usually to turn around at one point and try to catch them by suprise and unbuffed with intention of killing. That makes it nearly impossible for a large group of unexperienced players to win against someone more experienced.

I don’t agree that this is a problem that needs mechanics changes to solve. It just needs common sense. What always amazes me is that a group of players will run after a player for several minutes around the same rock or tower without realising that they can actually run in the opposite direction (or even stand still) and cut them off, cc them and take them down.

It was amazing me as well untill I saw distribution of iq in society while also taking into the consideration the fact that stress makes you often... lets just say "less smart".
These are the reasons for:

• Chasing a 1vXer around a rock rather than predicting his path and cutting him off.
• Standing in red circles.
• Getting constantly hit by siege engines.
• Whining for nerfs instead of finding a counter.
• Getting yourself killed instantly after rushing into combat without grouping up with your team in battlegrounds.
• Getting sandwiched in battlegrounds by two enemy teams instead of taking those 5 seconds to change your attack vector.

The sad truths of life are that we can't make all people smart and we can't even convince not smart people that they aren't smart.

Notice how I try hard not to use words like: dumb, stupid, idiot, ***, moron etc.

lylanya

CyrusArya wrote: »

I really like this idea and think that it is a good way to narrow the gap between exploitative small scalers and the virtuous zerg players who don’t believe in the use of terrain and strategy in combat.

But I think we could go a couple steps further even to really make the game more realistic and grounded in practicality.

- I love the idea of walking costing stamina! But while we’re at it, to further emphasize this brilliant idea, we must delete all wayshrines. Make travel more realistic. Expanding on the stamina cost for walking-jumping, using any attacks at all (including light/heavy attacks), riding mounts, and generally existing should also slowly drain stamina.

- Every 16 hours of played time or so, characters should be forced to go to their house or an inn and afk at a bed for 8 hours, or otherwise suffer a stacking sequence of debuffs.

- Diet and portion control are very important to a healthy lifestyle. Players must be made to only use food consumables when the prior meal has run out. Habitually consuming food before the appropriate time will eventually result in loss of combat stats and eventually disease debuffs.

- Speaking of debuffs and wellness, instant healing must be removed. How ridiculous of a concept. Damage taken to health can only be recovered tediously over extended periods of time. The presence of healers and healing abilities will quicken this process, but from a scale of months to weeks....never instantaneously.

- We must make encumbrance a thing, just like Skyrim! But better. As you carry more weight in items, you slowly begin to lose movement speed and the ability to turn your camera as smoothly.

-Players must now file taxes to either the Covenant, Dominon, or Pact in a timely and proper fashion. Failure to do so will lead to bounties and eventually a ban from the game.

-All player characters will experience a growth in all stats up until about level 30 or so. Afterwards, max stamina, stamina recovery, and weapon damage will all slowly begin to deteriorate up until about level 50. Then rapidly fall off. Max magicka, magicka recovery, and spell damage however will continue to grow indefinitely....but only if the player spends several hours a day reading lore books.

These changes, and others like it, will serve to make ESO a much more compelling and enjoyable experience for all.

First, CyrusArya, I love you.

Second, while we're at it, make it impossible to enter Cyrodil unless you've fought your way in, like a series of boss fights at a gate leading into Cyro. Only the worthy may enter the stamina drain pvp lakes. **eyeroll**

poietin

the problem isn't with walking. even if this is implemented, the inexperienced players would still have to learn how to manage their stamina, how not to run into choke point, how not to follow someone who is LoS and when they should reapply their buffs. All of these pvp skills have nothing to do with walking. also, do you really think inexperienced players will learn to manage their stamina if they see a squirrel on the run? No. What will happen is that they will chase after the experienced solo player until their stamina is depleted and the solo player will better resource management and still turn around and dawn breaker these noobs.

Razier

This has to be one of the worst suggestions I have ever read. If they implemented anything along these lines I would quit same day. As would anyone who knows anything about being just average in Cyrodil.

You want walking to cost Stamina... WALKING.....
No. Just.. just no

ALSO, for anyone saying jumping should cost stamina. Also, just no. If you take the time to really study the game mechanics and timers you'd be able to see for experienced players who animation cancel consistantly, jumping can ruin your timers to cast and actually hurt you. Of course you can kite jump to gain ground, but that has been in the game for 5 years and is not used a lot in Cyrodil. When it is it's typically a mistake.

So... just no.

Flame_of_Hades

Razier wrote: »

This has to be one of the worst suggestions I have ever read. If they implemented anything along these lines I would quit same day. As would anyone who knows anything about being just average in Cyrodil.

You want walking to cost Stamina... WALKING.....
No. Just.. just no

ALSO, for anyone saying jumping should cost stamina. Also, just no. If you take the time to really study the game mechanics and timers you'd be able to see for experienced players who animation cancel consistantly, jumping can ruin your timers to cast and actually hurt you. Of course you can kite jump to gain ground, but that has been in the game for 5 years and is not used a lot in Cyrodil. When it is it's typically a mistake.

So... just no.

actually, if you get stunned while jumping you continue the jump until you land, letting you gain a few meters of distance between yourself and whoever stunned you... so it is useful, especially during a defensive part of the fight (mostly used on caster setups)

Myux

ok i skimmed a little bit and got REALLY SCARED for a sec but once i actually read it yeah obv joke. very good one tho solid 9/10. slightly lacking in subtlety but the details of calling simple movement odd terms is a really good one. if i can offer some con-crit, saying "so called 1vXers and smallscalers" and "so called zerglings" is kinda out of place unless youre playing it off as a PvEer who doesnt consider themselves related to either party. it comes off as being derogatory towards all PvPers, thus your character seems like a PvEer who cares about PvP for seemingly no reason, and also knows PvP terms despite that, which breaks the character a little bit imo

Gilvoth

in morrowind it cost stamina to walk

Machete

I appreciated reading this. It made me smile.

While there are some very rare situations where kiting is irritating... it's L2P bud. CC them when the over extend and go for the kill, not RP walk around.

LaveniaRose

Thank you, OP for this post. It's brightening my day so much. And it makes such common sense. Walking and kiting should be exhausting.

However, terrain should also be accounted for. Speed should be reduced on hills further to account for the increased physical exertion.

Davadin

CyrusArya wrote: »

I really like this idea and think that it is a good way to narrow the gap between exploitative small scalers and the virtuous zerg players who don’t believe in the use of terrain and strategy in combat.

But I think we could go a couple steps further even to really make the game more realistic and grounded in practicality.

- I love the idea of walking costing stamina! But while we’re at it, to further emphasize this brilliant idea, we must delete all wayshrines. Make travel more realistic. Expanding on the stamina cost for walking-jumping, using any attacks at all (including light/heavy attacks), riding mounts, and generally existing should also slowly drain stamina.

- Every 16 hours of played time or so, characters should be forced to go to their house or an inn and afk at a bed for 8 hours, or otherwise suffer a stacking sequence of debuffs.

- Diet and portion control are very important to a healthy lifestyle. Players must be made to only use food consumables when the prior meal has run out. Habitually consuming food before the appropriate time will eventually result in loss of combat stats and eventually disease debuffs.

- Speaking of debuffs and wellness, instant healing must be removed. How ridiculous of a concept. Damage taken to health can only be recovered tediously over extended periods of time. The presence of healers and healing abilities will quicken this process, but from a scale of months to weeks....never instantaneously.

- We must make encumbrance a thing, just like Skyrim! But better. As you carry more weight in items, you slowly begin to lose movement speed and the ability to turn your camera as smoothly.

-Players must now file taxes to either the Covenant, Dominon, or Pact in a timely and proper fashion. Failure to do so will lead to bounties and eventually a ban from the game.

-All player characters will experience a growth in all stats up until about level 30 or so. Afterwards, max stamina, stamina recovery, and weapon damage will all slowly begin to deteriorate up until about level 50. Then rapidly fall off. Max magicka, magicka recovery, and spell damage however will continue to grow indefinitely....but only if the player spends several hours a day reading lore books.

These changes, and others like it, will serve to make ESO a much more compelling and enjoyable experience for all.

beautiful.

Myux wrote: »

ok i skimmed a little bit and got REALLY SCARED for a sec but once i actually read it yeah obv joke. very good one tho solid 9/10. slightly lacking in subtlety but the details of calling simple movement odd terms is a really good one. if i can offer some con-crit, saying "so called 1vXers and smallscalers" and "so called zerglings" is kinda out of place unless youre playing it off as a PvEer who doesnt consider themselves related to either party. it comes off as being derogatory towards all PvPers, thus your character seems like a PvEer who cares about PvP for seemingly no reason, and also knows PvP terms despite that, which breaks the character a little bit imo

dude i lvoe dr. Pepper, but... what? HOT Dr. Pepper?

WTF?

goodness I have to try it out.

VaranisArano

Gilvoth wrote: »

in morrowind it cost stamina to walk

I liked TES 3 Morrowind, but of all the things I think ESO could learn from that game...the fatigue mechanics aren't one of them.

Cravalllo

9.5/10 !! I think this is a brilliant idea. Tbh I think the sprint option should be removed and, therefore, the stamina costs of sprint should be put on the run animation. This would lead to slower combat and the ability to aim at targets for a longer time. If we are already working on improving combat and movement, we should also get rid of jumps, this would make it impossible to jump on objects just in case new players haven´t figured out yet which key they have to press to jump up there as well.

The conclusion of all this is to make combat and movement as simple as possible to make it easier for new players.

Thanks!

Ilsabet

Walking is hard work. I would like to be able to roll myself down hills to more efficiently get where I'm going without tiring myself out.

Checkmath

Gilvoth wrote: »

in morrowind it cost stamina to walk

Seriously mate? In Morrowind sprinting and jumping costs stamina, meanwhile walking does not. You are slowly recovering stamina while walking.

mague

Swiftfox_Bouncyface wrote: »

TL;DR
Walking should have a stamina cost to improve health of PvP, it won't affect PvE much, extremely small hidrance but in my opinion improvement for all PvP players out there. If you're wondering why I think so, please read the thread

Thank you for reading & you're welcome to discuss, I hope I didn't miss anything
-Swiftfox Bouncyface

I think it is the wrong approach.

While everyone is able to use the environment the players themselves are not environment. Everyone can just run through others. This tiny lack of physics is what turns everything into wrong. I am not sure if the servers are able to handle the collisions, but i would prefer this above stamina costs for walking.

A NPC guard is able to push you and your horse btw.

FakeFox

Gilvoth

Checkmath wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

in morrowind it cost stamina to walk

Seriously mate? In Morrowind sprinting and jumping costs stamina, meanwhile walking does not. You are slowly recovering stamina while walking.

thats because you are playing the updated version.
the original 2002 version you lost stamina while walking.
It was released in North America in 2002 on disk, the versions you get on steam and free versions are not only altered but they are rebuilt to todays crowd that includes changes to basicly 40% of the game.

Gilvoth

Waffennacht wrote: »

This is a really bad idea

that is exactly what most of the eso community said when years ago near eso launch we saw it being taught to use exploits and glitches in the game as a means to win pvp fights and call it "skill"
adding stamina to jumping would fix alot of problems in eso pvp, i am not sure walking stamina cost would help but perhaps increase the running cost might do it.

Blinkin8r

"I can't kill someone because they walked behind a rock so make walking cost stamina."
I don't think it can get pettier than this. L2P and more specifically learn to walk like your opponents do.

DocFrost72

Agree and insightful granted.

I think along the same vein we should be able to use console commands like in skyrim.

InvictusApollo

Blinkin8r wrote: »

"I can't kill someone because they walked behind a rock so make walking cost stamina."
I don't think it can get pettier than this. L2P and more specifically learn to walk like your opponents do.

But walking is hard! You need to use not one, not two, but FOUR buttons to do it! And a mouse! How could anyone ever learn to walk in a video game? I think that we should just delete walking at all and use mouse to point where our characters should teleport to once per six seconds. This would be great for VR!

CompM4s

This thread is a shining example of L2P...