Walking discussion

Swiftfox_Bouncyface

Hello everyone, today I'd like to bring up the topic of walking in ESO PvP. I strongly believe that the game is not punishing it's players for making bad decisions, hence the idea of topic - in my opinion we, as players, ought to be punished for choosing where we decide to place our characters. The reasoning behind is that in current state you're free to walk wherever, and whilist it is a good thing, it causes some harm in PvP scenario, most importantly in Cyrodiil in my opinion.

We very often see those so called 1vX and smallscale players wandering in the PvP zone, I have nothing against that, however, the problem begins when they are using positioning well, and while making mistakes, still performing very well since movement mistakes are very forgiving. Quite frankly, this does not matter as much to players that play in larger groups - aka zergs - due to being guarded by other members of the group. That said, it's extremely easy to walk out of line of sight when the X player makes mistake by walking up too close the enemy which results in lack of punishment for mistakes commited.

A very simple and common example that occurs from the other part of community, as opposed to the so called zerglings, are 1vX and smallscale players. This group utilizes walking mechanic very well. Often we can see a single player walking around a rock or other obstacle, using them as line of sight object to protect themselves from the other players - usually to turn around at one point and try to catch them by suprise and unbuffed with intention of killing. That makes it nearly impossible for a large group of unexperienced players to win against someone more experienced. I'm not endorsing mentality that people should die if they are outnumbered, I do believe that changes to walking should be implemented as a QoL aspect, especially for less experienced players. What's more, I believe PC players would start using more movement abilities in order to make their moves more valuable, since they would have to be more careful and pay more attention what direction are they heading. Such an example would be gap closers, on console where people don't have much mobility - caused by controler not being as responsive as keyboard & mouse - use gap closers to help with moving around. On PC, where it is significantly easier to walk in direction A and in a blink of an eye change direction to points B or C, not so many players are keen on using such skills, which I totally understand and I agree with. There just is no reason to use those skills, neither major expedition ones hence the ability to walk/sprint is so extremely good and movement is very strong in Cyrodiil. There are exceptions however, such as Streak or Shade from Sorcerer and Nightblade skill lines. Those skills are used frequently because they don't have any major disadvantages when used and can help us move quickly. Obviously snares exist and they are huge part of taking people down by slowing them down and not letting opponent use line of sight, but it can be countered easily as well if snare removals, purging and else.

Conclusion:
Idea behind this all is to make walking cost stamina, simple fatigue like in other games. I believe points I've given are valid reasons to create this option. Not to mention all people that hate jumping in fights and want it to cost stamina, cause this should satisfy them as well due to jumping while walking giving player velocity and helps to kite around, however those who like to jump will still be able to, and walking itself, will have a cost, and so indirectly will jumping in fights. The main idea is that we can increase skill ceiling for PvP players that enjoy challenge and try to 1vX, make less experienced players learn a bit more about movement and help them catch those who make mistakes with their positioning.

TL;DR
Walking should have a stamina cost to improve health of PvP, it won't affect PvE much, extremely small hidrance but in my opinion improvement for all PvP players out there. If you're wondering why I think so, please read the thread

Thank you for reading & you're welcome to discuss, I hope I didn't miss anything
-Swiftfox Bouncyface

Sleep724

So any movement whatsoever would cost stamina? That would be unbelievably broken and unnecessary as it’s already a mini game managing stamina for some classes and would only promote more Zerg gameplay.

Trandaner

Why should unexperienced players be able to kill experienced players. LOSing also takes some practice, and practicing something should generally be rewarded. And if walking would cost stamina, would magicka builds have to stand still every 10 sec waiting for their stam to come back? What are you even thinking.

UnknownNick

Honestly, I strongly agree with you and I'd like to see this implemented into the game as soon as possible. Many games have this feature, it would just bring more challenges to the game and bring a better and more accurated balance between unexperienced and experienced people, especially in the PvP content

VaranisArano

So you want...

Current Move Speeds
Optional: slow a** RP walk
Base Speed: run, doesn't count stamina
Speedier: Sprint, cost stamina
Slower: snared

To be replaced with

Base Speed: slow a** RP walk
Speedier: run, costs stamina
Even Speedier: sprint, costs more stamina
Slower than a slow a** RP walk: snared

For the paraphrased reasons of "PVPers are too dang good at LOS", "PC players don't have to use controllers" and "We ought to play a modern MMORPG like its TES 3 Morrowind."


HAHAHA!

Nope.

1. L2Play
2. PC Master Race
3. If I wanted to move everywhere at a slow a** RP walk, I'd enable that option or I'd go play Morrowind.

DjMuscleboy02

I wholeheartedly agree with this post.

Kikke

all I read was: I cant kill good players because of. . . . Movement.

Is this really what it's all come down to?

Sarting

Can we just charge stamina for drinking a stamina potion please?

Synapsis123

I'm in support of this as long as rp walking doesn't require stamina.

lassitershawn

Honestly though most magic attacks should have a stamina cost in addition to a Magicka cost. Just because skills like concealed weapon or destructive reach cost Magicka doesn’t mean it doesn’t take a lot of effort to swing around a sword/staff like that. This harkens back to games like Skyrim where skills like “Bound Sword” cost Magicka to summon and then stamina to use. This change would also help address the glaring gap in viability between underwhelming stamina based builds and highly overtuned Magicka builds while also simultaneously make hybrid builds much more viable.

TPishek

They should also add a feature where you die from overexertion if your stamina pool stays too low for too long.

Bergzorn

Ok, but only if I can increase my stamina pool by frequently excercising.

D0RID0RI240

You can have your walking stamina cost update as soon as we can open all of the overland zones to pvp. I'd wager I could find to OP at the inn in Riften, for example.

ZOS_Ragnar

We have removed some posts that were not constructive. Please ensure your posts are adding value to the thread and not just a way to insult someone who has an opinion that differs from your own.

TriangularChicken

No, it's fine to have a fav class and saying "nerf abc", "buff xyz", etc is ok, but [snip] the whole game for everybody just because you are not able to kill good players is a [snip] move. Zerging noobies are too strong and too many already and 1vXing/small scaling (especially in no cp) is already tough..there is no need to make it even more difficult..

[eddited for profanity bypass]

Waffennacht

This is a really bad idea

CyrusArya

I really like this idea and think that it is a good way to narrow the gap between exploitative small scalers and the virtuous zerg players who don’t believe in the use of terrain and strategy in combat.

But I think we could go a couple steps further even to really make the game more realistic and grounded in practicality.

- I love the idea of walking costing stamina! But while we’re at it, to further emphasize this brilliant idea, we must delete all wayshrines. Make travel more realistic. Expanding on the stamina cost for walking-jumping, using any attacks at all (including light/heavy attacks), riding mounts, and generally existing should also slowly drain stamina.

- Every 16 hours of played time or so, characters should be forced to go to their house or an inn and afk at a bed for 8 hours, or otherwise suffer a stacking sequence of debuffs.

- Diet and portion control are very important to a healthy lifestyle. Players must be made to only use food consumables when the prior meal has run out. Habitually consuming food before the appropriate time will eventually result in loss of combat stats and eventually disease debuffs.

- Speaking of debuffs and wellness, instant healing must be removed. How ridiculous of a concept. Damage taken to health can only be recovered tediously over extended periods of time. The presence of healers and healing abilities will quicken this process, but from a scale of months to weeks....never instantaneously.

- We must make encumbrance a thing, just like Skyrim! But better. As you carry more weight in items, you slowly begin to lose movement speed and the ability to turn your camera as smoothly.

-Players must now file taxes to either the Covenant, Dominon, or Pact in a timely and proper fashion. Failure to do so will lead to bounties and eventually a ban from the game.

-All player characters will experience a growth in all stats up until about level 30 or so. Afterwards, max stamina, stamina recovery, and weapon damage will all slowly begin to deteriorate up until about level 50. Then rapidly fall off. Max magicka, magicka recovery, and spell damage however will continue to grow indefinitely....but only if the player spends several hours a day reading lore books.

These changes, and others like it, will serve to make ESO a much more compelling and enjoyable experience for all.

Waffennacht

CyrusArya wrote: »

I really like this idea and think that it is a good way to narrow the gap between exploitative small scalers and the virtuous zerg players who don’t believe in the use of terrain and strategy in combat.

But I think we could go a couple steps further even to really make the game more realistic and grounded in practicality.

- I love the idea of walking costing stamina! But while we’re at it, to further emphasize this brilliant idea, we must delete all wayshrines. Make travel more realistic. Expanding on the stamina cost for walking-jumping, using any attacks at all (including light/heavy attacks), riding mounts, and generally existing should also slowly drain stamina.

- Every 16 hours of played time or so, characters should be forced to go to their house or an inn and afk at a bed for 8 hours, or otherwise suffer a stacking sequence of debuffs.

- Diet and portion control are very important to a healthy lifestyle. Players must be made to only use food consumables when the prior meal has run out. Habitually consuming food before the appropriate time will eventually result in loss of combat stats and eventually disease debuffs.

- Speaking of debuffs and wellness, instant healing must be removed. How ridiculous of a concept. Damage taken to health can only be recovered tediously over extended periods of time. The presence of healers and healing abilities will quicken this process, but from a scale of months to weeks....never instantaneously.

- We must make encumbrance a thing, just like Skyrim! But better. As you carry more items, you slowly begin to lose movement speed and the ability to turn your camera as smoothly. This is a gradual debuff, not one that just magically manifests at a certain amount of items carried. Furthermore, encumbrance will be based on weight carried not sum total of items, and metered by reasonable standards.

-Players must now file taxes to either the Covenant, Dominon, or Pact in a timely and proper fashion. Failure to do so will lead to bounties and eventually a ban from the game.

-All player characters will experience a growth in all stats up until about level 30 or so. Afterwards, max stamina, stamina recovery, and weapon damage will all slowly begin to deteriorate up until about level 50. Then rapidly fall off. Max magicka, magicka recovery, and spell damage however will continue to grow indefinitely....but only if the player spends several hours a day reading lore books.

These changes, and others like it, will serve to make ESO a much more compelling and enjoyable experience for all.

That is so much work and awesomeness for a burn.

I bow to your clearly superior burning abilities

Heelie

CyrusArya wrote: »

I really like this idea and think that it is a good way to narrow the gap between exploitative small scalers and the virtuous zerg players who don’t believe in the use of terrain and strategy in combat.

But I think we could go a couple steps further even to really make the game more realistic and grounded in practicality.

- I love the idea of walking costing stamina! But while we’re at it, to further emphasize this brilliant idea, we must delete all wayshrines. Make travel more realistic. Expanding on the stamina cost for walking-jumping, using any attacks at all (including light/heavy attacks), riding mounts, and generally existing should also slowly drain stamina.

- Every 16 hours of played time or so, characters should be forced to go to their house or an inn and afk at a bed for 8 hours, or otherwise suffer a stacking sequence of debuffs.

- Diet and portion control are very important to a healthy lifestyle. Players must be made to only use food consumables when the prior meal has run out. Habitually consuming food before the appropriate time will eventually result in loss of combat stats and eventually disease debuffs.

- Speaking of debuffs and wellness, instant healing must be removed. How ridiculous of a concept. Damage taken to health can only be recovered tediously over extended periods of time. The presence of healers and healing abilities will quicken this process, but from a scale of months to weeks....never instantaneously.

- We must make encumbrance a thing, just like Skyrim! But better. As you carry more items, you slowly begin to lose movement speed and the ability to turn your camera as smoothly. This is a gradual debuff, not one that just magically manifests at a certain amount of items carried. Furthermore, encumbrance will be based on weight carried not sum total of items, and metered by reasonable standards.

-Players must now file taxes to either the Covenant, Dominon, or Pact in a timely and proper fashion. Failure to do so will lead to bounties and eventually a ban from the game.

-All player characters will experience a growth in all stats up until about level 30 or so. Afterwards, max stamina, stamina recovery, and weapon damage will all slowly begin to deteriorate up until about level 50. Then rapidly fall off. Max magicka, magicka recovery, and spell damage however will continue to grow indefinitely....but only if the player spends several hours a day reading lore books.

These changes, and others like it, will serve to make ESO a much more compelling and enjoyable experience for all.

Dont forget that if you die without a soul gem you should lose that character and all progress unless you're in a party with another person that might revive you, after all this will encourage team play.

Girl_Number8

Waffennacht wrote: »

This is a really bad idea

The worse, lol. Someone wants to punish experienced players because they decided to take the bait....and got owned.

D0RID0RI240 wrote: »

You can have your walking stamina cost update as soon as we can open all of the overland zones to pvp. I'd wager I could find to OP at the inn in Riften, for example.

Nah, they still don't deserve the stamina cost for walking but I am liking this whole let's make an event that allows PvP everywhere xD.

Kikke wrote: »

all I read was: I cant kill good players because of. . . . Movement.

Is this really what it's all come down to?

Pretty much that is what it seems. They got killed because a more experienced player broke up the los. I remember when noobs complained about trees years ago, lol. Stop them from running around that tree, rock, my ego. LMAO

Trandaner wrote: »

Why should unexperienced players be able to kill experienced players. LOSing also takes some practice, and practicing something should generally be rewarded. And if walking would cost stamina, would magicka builds have to stand still every 10 sec waiting for their stam to come back? What are you even thinking.

Because they died and they should be able to kill someone that has played the game for a long time and has way more experience then them.

This is not CoD, it is ESO it has gotten dumbed down enough. Cx, learn the game and gain experience to get better because that is what makes ESO fun. There is a learning curve to PvP and experienced players shouldn't be punished for someone elses lack of skill.

'Experience' should be rewarded not punished. Isn't that the whole point of playing a game like ESO?

Kartalin

Trandaner wrote: »

practicing something should generally be rewarded.

This is a great concept, I just wish ZOS subscribed to it. Instead they keep buffing siege.

InvictusApollo

Kartalin wrote: »

Trandaner wrote: »

practicing something should generally be rewarded.

This is a great concept, I just wish ZOS subscribed to it. Instead they keep buffing siege.

Are you a member of an "elite" ballgroup or just haven't binded roll dodge to any button?

Mojmir

*** no 👎

idk

It sounds like OP wants to reduce skill level involved in PvP. The only reason I can think is OP is challenged with players approaching combat with intelligent thought and using the terrain to their advantage, hence LOL.

Zos intentionally created varying terrain and differing situations. All of that is by design. Asking for all players to be nerfed, as op is doing, is a very bad idea for the game as it over simplifies combat in a game where combat defines PvP. It is better for newer players to rise to the occasion as they become much better players as a result.

Further, OP's idea would make some PvE impossible as the newer trials have required a lot of movement. In total there is nothing good in the idea presented.

I will say it is odd such an idea comes from someone named Swiftfox.

Gilvoth

it does not take "skill" to hide behind stuff.
thats not skill, its broken game mechanics.

dont believe me? then why hate ranged bow users like me so much when we hide from you by breaking line of sight?
see, its different when the shoe is on the other foot.

idk

Gilvoth wrote: »

it does not take "skill" to hide behind stuff.
thats not skill, its broken game mechanics.

It most certainly takes skill. Intelligence is part of a players skill and it is smart to use the environment around you to your advantage.

Melee and being ranged. LoS to force ranged to come closer while you heal up. Brilliant tactic.

On a keep wall manning siege and you start taking damage from several siege and ones health is dropping fast. The better strategy for the moment would seem to be moving away from that damage, get healed up. Maybe even move farther out of sight. It would seem unwise to stand ones ground just to die.

So it is skill for certain.

ccmedaddy

Gilvoth wrote: »

it does not take "skill" to hide behind stuff.
thats not skill, its broken game mechanics.

Sniper logic: using LoS to mitigate dmg is "broken game mechanics" while staying in stealth and sniping people off from a 30m range is a ~vALiD pLaySTyle~

🙃🙃🙃

Gilvoth

.

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

it does not take "skill" to hide behind stuff.
thats not skill, its broken game mechanics.

Sniper logic: using LoS to mitigate dmg is "broken game mechanics" while staying in stealth and sniping people off from a 30m range is a ~vALiD pLaySTyle~

🙃🙃🙃

see, this is where the problems start.
you guys claim your ways of using the tools provided is "skill"
yet when we use those same tactics "in a different manor" we are invalid and not worthy of even being considered as anything good in pvp.

Adernath

This suggestion does not make any sense. We already have a fast movement option which costs stamina and is called sprinting.

What I would find interesting is a small stamina cost for jumping, however. But that's a different topic.

Elong

Using terrain is broken game mechanics. I thought I'd read it all when I read the OP, but then another poster out did them.

Good Lord.

Gilvoth

Elong wrote: »

Using terrain is broken game mechanics. I thought I'd read it all when I read the OP, but then another poster out did them.

Good Lord.

you took the quote out of context.