Dear dungeoneers

DenMoria

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

WolfingHour wrote: »

Do you usually completely disregard people that greet you in the street? Like literally turn your face and carry on with your life? If you go for a coffee, do you not greet the person behind the counter?
If you answer yes to any of this then I don't know what to tell except that you are being rude and inconsiderate. To be clear, I don't WANT you to do anything, but I do EXPECT you to answer. If you don't then I WILL judge, not at face value but rather from information you provided.

Well, it depends.
I used to live in a big city and now I live in a small village. In big cities, you don't say "hello" to people you don't already know. People in the streets will be scared if you do. They'll think you'll ask something, tell them your life, try to go to bed with you, or distract you while pickpocketing you. Stuff like that. You just don't say hello to strangers in big cities.
In a small village, you do. Everyone does. It sounds nice the first couple of days, but it gets old very quickly. It's something everyone does, but not out of courtesy or attention or politeness, but just out of habit, without really noticing they do it.
Same goes for people behind counters : they hear it all day, they don't care. An overall polite and respectful tone and attitude expresses more than a standard, anonymous greeting.

On the internet, I usually refrain from saying "hello" or "goodbye". Remember those IRC groups where nobody was saying anything and the chat box was just a succession of "hello" and "bye" or "brb" or "afk" over hundreds of lines ? That's just plain ridiculous, and ESO guild chat looks like that more often than not. I simply refrain from saying hi/thx/bb for that reason.
In a PUG, I'll avoid that too, but I will try to say something less generic and more personal, like if the run was fun or particularly efficient or nice for whatever reason. But not just simply hi/bb, which is imho worse than not saying anything at all.
I will answer if someone says hi, but there again, I'll try to add something.

TL-DR : greeting or not greeting in a PUG chat can mean anything, everything and nothing, depending on the person, and it is in no way a criteria to judge someone's level of courtesy. OP is in my opinion very narrow-minded.

Wow! You have a terrible idea of big cities. I've lived in NYC, Chicago, Miami, San Francisco, Paris, Munich, London and a number of other cities and I have never lived in silence and w/out acknowledging the presence of my fellow dwellers, nor have they me. We do not live in fear of others.

Realize that I am a very large and intimidating person (not on purpose, I just am) and no-one has ever feared to speak with me or return a smile.

That just strikes me as a very sad way to live.

Raammzzaa

I have “Hello” quick slotted so that I can use it at the start, and “thank you” for when we finish.

david_m_18b16_ESO

The worst is when you queue as tank. I always start saying Hi and ask if everyoens ready, so poeple have the time to swap pvp/solo items/gear for their dungeon setup.

Half the time their is a magicka DPS pulling it all.

anitajoneb17_ESO

DenMoria wrote: »

Wow! You have a terrible idea of big cities. I've lived in NYC, Chicago, Miami, San Francisco, Paris, Munich, London and a number of other cities and I have never lived in silence and w/out acknowledging the presence of my fellow dwellers, nor have they me. We do not live in fear of others.

It's not an "idea" : it's the truth. And it surely applies to you, too. And it's not "sad", it's just a quantitative matter. Let's set NYC, Chicago and Frisco aside, since I've never set foot in those, but Paris, Munich and London I happen to know very well, and not only as a tourist. There are simply too many people there : do you really say hello to every single person you cross ? No. That would mean you'd frantically say "hello" every second for hours.
I'm not saying you can't ask for directions or start a conversation at a bus stop. I'm just saying you don't say "hello" to strangers if you've nothing else to say, just for the sake of saying hello. Which is what OP means : saying hello just for the sake of saying hello.
I'm neither shy nor scared by people, I just hate the idea to talk to people (and , by doing this, requesting their attention) if I have nothing to say.

Edit : come to think of it, this is getting worse since everyone and their mothers walk with earphones anyway.

anitajoneb17_ESO

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

The worst is when you queue as tank. I always start saying Hi and ask if everyoens ready, so poeple have the time to swap pvp/solo items/gear for their dungeon setup.

Half the time their is a magicka DPS pulling it all.

^^this^^
Waiting for everyone to be ready, using the ready-check, etc... is a much more efficient way to acknowledge and respect people than "hi".

EBK

People actually get upset if you dont say hi back? Soft.

azjuwelz

Sheezabeast wrote: »

LadySinflower wrote: »

To be quite honest, when is there time to type a greeting? Any PUG I've ever been in, everyone immediately starts running and its all I can do to catch up. I don't have time to mess with text chat! If I tried to type a greeting the others would be halfway done before I got out "hello!"

Typing “hi” takes two key strokes and a third to hit enter. Let’s not pretend you don’t text on your phone at a much faster rate.

Not true if you're on console--you have to access the chat menu and then use your stupid controller to scroll through letters, so this has happened to me. But I do try to have voicechat whenever I engage in any kind of group activity.

Colecovision

People with a keyboard and mouse just hit "." move the mouse and type. A tank in frostvault once yelled at everyone to bash before the mechanic even made it to my computer. On a gamepad, it's not the case. I have a feeling people are seeing their own situation and just assuming it's the same for others.

I try to say howdy at the beginning, but if I'm the last in, it's not happening. What's worse than dungeons is when I show up at a world boss to help. People thank me and by the time I can respond, sometimes they are gone.

From now on I'm going to use the mime emoji. If people are mad that a mime won't talk, well, that's their fault.

BretonMage

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Wow! You have a terrible idea of big cities. I've lived in NYC, Chicago, Miami, San Francisco, Paris, Munich, London and a number of other cities and I have never lived in silence and w/out acknowledging the presence of my fellow dwellers, nor have they me. We do not live in fear of others.

It's not an "idea" : it's the truth. And it surely applies to you, too. And it's not "sad", it's just a quantitative matter. Let's set NYC, Chicago and Frisco aside, since I've never set foot in those, but Paris, Munich and London I happen to know very well, and not only as a tourist. There are simply too many people there : do you really say hello to every single person you cross ? No. That would mean you'd frantically say "hello" every second for hours.

It's true that it's easier to be anonymous in big cities, but it's usually out of convenience, not suspicion, as DenMoria has mentioned.

I also want to say that there is a big difference between doing a dungeon with 3 other people, and randomly saying hi to people on the street. In a dungeon, you're a team working on something together. It makes it far easier and more pleasant if you're decent and polite to your team members.

anitajoneb17_ESO

BretonMage wrote: »

I also want to say that there is a big difference between doing a dungeon with 3 other people, and randomly saying hi to people on the street. In a dungeon, you're a team working on something together. It makes it far easier and more pleasant if you're decent and polite to your team members.

I tend to agree, but there are different ways to look at it.
If you're a group of, say, trekkers who meet first and then go trekking together, you say "hi", of course. But you also say "my name is blabla, I'm from blabla, I'm blabla years old, how are you blabla, about the weather blabla, etc.. ".
But if you're in the street and witness someone having an accident and go help that person together with 3 other nearby strangers, you won't say "hi", let alone the rest.

I'm not saying we shouldn't greet PUG fellows in dungeons. I'm saying we shouldn't judge people who don't. They're not necessarily the rude selfish people the OP make them sound like. And also, that "hi" and "bb" alone don't mean much.

Depending on my mood, I either say nothing or more than that. Like, complimenting people on the outfit of their character, asking if ppl are ready, what country people are from, this kind of stuff.

DenMoria

azjuwelz wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

LadySinflower wrote: »

To be quite honest, when is there time to type a greeting? Any PUG I've ever been in, everyone immediately starts running and its all I can do to catch up. I don't have time to mess with text chat! If I tried to type a greeting the others would be halfway done before I got out "hello!"

Typing “hi” takes two key strokes and a third to hit enter. Let’s not pretend you don’t text on your phone at a much faster rate.

Not true if you're on console--you have to access the chat menu and then use your stupid controller to scroll through letters, so this has happened to me. But I do try to have voicechat whenever I engage in any kind of group activity.

I plug a wireless keyboard in to my PS4. Makes chat so much easier.

DenMoria

EBK wrote: »

People actually get upset if you dont say hi back? Soft.

Yeah. Where I come from, we tackle you and give you nuggies until you say "Hi!".

anitajoneb17_ESO

DenMoria wrote: »

I plug a wireless keyboard in to my PS4. Makes chat so much easier.

Yeah, that's the funny thing about console players. They argue it's a cheaper and more convenient way of playing than on PC, that they can lay on the couch, etc... but then they have to plug in a mic, then a keyboard, and end up with the same load of peripherals that we PCers have on our desks ;-)
(Not wanting to start a PCMasterRace discussion here, but it just makes me smile ;-) )

Tsar_Gekkou

I only speak to randoms if they ask me a question or need someone to explain the mechanics to them.

xeNNNNN

Vuylstekeara wrote: »

I usually don't greet in PuGs either. Don't take it personal, it's nothing against you, I just find it unnecessary. What's polite about that if nobody really needs it or cares that much anyway? Get in, do your job, get out, everyone is happy, or could be at least, greeted or not.

Because the majority alternative and perspective is negativity. Because people will only talk in chat when they want to complain "bUt uR DeEps iS tRaSh".

This sets a crappy community example and perspective and it should change really otherwise it will just push more and more people away as they will think everyone is like that and not even bother trying to find a guild because the community is so toxic.

BretonMage

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm not saying we shouldn't greet PUG fellows in dungeons. I'm saying we shouldn't judge people who don't. They're not necessarily the rude selfish people the OP make them sound like. And also, that "hi" and "bb" alone don't mean much.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. If a player is generally polite and decent at other times during the run, I wouldn't hold a lack of "hi" against them.

Still, if someone says hi at the beginning and is met by silence, it does feel awkward.

Veinblood1965

PS$ sucks for typing I even have a mini keyboard and it's such a pain to type anything. I'd normally say hello back but have gotten to the point where it's almost a solo game chat wise. I'm sure some others type away just fine but it's not a smooth process.

ccmedaddy

I don't say hi to pugs because I don't want it to be awkward when I have to vote kick someone lol

Linaleah

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

I plug a wireless keyboard in to my PS4. Makes chat so much easier.

Yeah, that's the funny thing about console players. They argue it's a cheaper and more convenient way of playing than on PC, that they can lay on the couch, etc... but then they have to plug in a mic, then a keyboard, and end up with the same load of peripherals that we PCers have on our desks ;-)
(Not wanting to start a PCMasterRace discussion here, but it just makes me smile ;-) )

its cheaper and more convenient if you play single player games, for sure. multiplayer is.... hit or miss. just.. from experience of playing on both console and pc, consoles for a lot of things are just much simpler. and cheaper. they also don't allow the same flexibility that PC does so its a tradeoff you chose. I haven't tried MMO's on console because of multitude of reasons, one being from my small experience of multiplayer on console, its pretty much voice communications off the bat, and I'm just not social or brave enough to do that with people I just met. which results in no communication at all for me. I did play division 1 on both ps4 and PC and from chat alone (or lack of thereof on ps4), it feels almost like a different game.

but I digress. having lived in NYC for over 10 years. you say hello to your neighbours. you say hello/thank you whatever to service people, mostly cause as someone who worked in retail, its nice to be acknowledged occasionally (though please don't take it beyond that - you are holding up the line and slowing everything and everyone down, and cashiers are often judged by the number of transactions they process in a shift). but aside from that - most of the time people are just getting on with their lives. communication between strangers temporarily working together - tends to be restricted to essentials (the dungeon equivalent would be typing up instructions for boss mechanics, shortcuts, etc) sociability is not really expected let alone demanded.

FierceSam

ccmedaddy wrote: »

I don't say hi to pugs because I don't want it to be awkward when I have to vote kick someone lol

Vote to kick

DenMoria

I like being the center of attention and I'm more than happy to provide you with my user name so you can stalk me when I kick-you.

I take great joy in the suffering and humiliation of others.

AnyOldIron

Manners cost nothing

anitajoneb17_ESO

jorvikthomb16_ESO wrote: »

Manners cost nothing

True, but in the context, it does cost time.

When you queue up in for dungeons using the grouping tool, it can last any time between 1 second to forever. You stay in your overland gear. Once you're grouped, you have just a few seconds before being teleported. And then again just a few seconds to swap gear, make inventory space free for loot, etc... all of which you can't do anymore as soon as someone has aggro'd.
Taking the time to say "hello" is risky. While most people are nice, some are jerks and I've been caught in groups where some players where already at the 2nd boss while I was desperately trying to equip a healing staff.

Runefang

I say "Hi, I hope you have a strong back because I need a carry".

Chicharron

DenMoria wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

WolfingHour wrote: »

Do you usually completely disregard people that greet you in the street? Like literally turn your face and carry on with your life? If you go for a coffee, do you not greet the person behind the counter?
If you answer yes to any of this then I don't know what to tell except that you are being rude and inconsiderate. To be clear, I don't WANT you to do anything, but I do EXPECT you to answer. If you don't then I WILL judge, not at face value but rather from information you provided.

Well, it depends.
I used to live in a big city and now I live in a small village. In big cities, you don't say "hello" to people you don't already know. People in the streets will be scared if you do. They'll think you'll ask something, tell them your life, try to go to bed with you, or distract you while pickpocketing you. Stuff like that. You just don't say hello to strangers in big cities.
In a small village, you do. Everyone does. It sounds nice the first couple of days, but it gets old very quickly. It's something everyone does, but not out of courtesy or attention or politeness, but just out of habit, without really noticing they do it.
Same goes for people behind counters : they hear it all day, they don't care. An overall polite and respectful tone and attitude expresses more than a standard, anonymous greeting.

On the internet, I usually refrain from saying "hello" or "goodbye". Remember those IRC groups where nobody was saying anything and the chat box was just a succession of "hello" and "bye" or "brb" or "afk" over hundreds of lines ? That's just plain ridiculous, and ESO guild chat looks like that more often than not. I simply refrain from saying hi/thx/bb for that reason.
In a PUG, I'll avoid that too, but I will try to say something less generic and more personal, like if the run was fun or particularly efficient or nice for whatever reason. But not just simply hi/bb, which is imho worse than not saying anything at all.
I will answer if someone says hi, but there again, I'll try to add something.

TL-DR : greeting or not greeting in a PUG chat can mean anything, everything and nothing, depending on the person, and it is in no way a criteria to judge someone's level of courtesy. OP is in my opinion very narrow-minded.

Wow! You have a terrible idea of big cities. I've lived in NYC, Chicago, Miami, San Francisco, Paris, Munich, London and a number of other cities and I have never lived in silence and w/out acknowledging the presence of my fellow dwellers, nor have they me. We do not live in fear of others.

Realize that I am a very large and intimidating person (not on purpose, I just am) and no-one has ever feared to speak with me or return a smile.

That just strikes me as a very sad way to live.

By very large and intimidating you mean FAT AF?

russelmmendoza

I dont greet people but I always say, "THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR GROUP", when were done with the dungeon.

Iphin

Encountering rude people is just another unfortunate side effect of living amongst human beings.

AbysmalGhul

DLM wrote: »

When you queue for a dungeon and end up with 3 other persons, as much at it may be surprising they are not bots. When someone says "hi", "hey" or whatever, the least of courtesy is greeting back.

I agree. Some form of communication goes a long way.

mague

DLM wrote: »

When you queue for a dungeon and end up with 3 other persons, as much at it may be surprising they are not bots. When someone says "hi", "hey" or whatever, the least of courtesy is greeting back.

I play with gamepad and its a bit weird to use the keyboard.

WolfingHour

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

WolfingHour wrote: »

Do you usually completely disregard people that greet you in the street? Like literally turn your face and carry on with your life? If you go for a coffee, do you not greet the person behind the counter?
If you answer yes to any of this then I don't know what to tell except that you are being rude and inconsiderate. To be clear, I don't WANT you to do anything, but I do EXPECT you to answer. If you don't then I WILL judge, not at face value but rather from information you provided.

Well, it depends.
I used to live in a big city and now I live in a small village. In big cities, you don't say "hello" to people you don't already know. People in the streets will be scared if you do. They'll think you'll ask something, tell them your life, try to go to bed with you, or distract you while pickpocketing you. Stuff like that. You just don't say hello to strangers in big cities.
In a small village, you do. Everyone does. It sounds nice the first couple of days, but it gets old very quickly. It's something everyone does, but not out of courtesy or attention or politeness, but just out of habit, without really noticing they do it.
Same goes for people behind counters : they hear it all day, they don't care. An overall polite and respectful tone and attitude expresses more than a standard, anonymous greeting.

On the internet, I usually refrain from saying "hello" or "goodbye". Remember those IRC groups where nobody was saying anything and the chat box was just a succession of "hello" and "bye" or "brb" or "afk" over hundreds of lines ? That's just plain ridiculous, and ESO guild chat looks like that more often than not. I simply refrain from saying hi/thx/bb for that reason.
In a PUG, I'll avoid that too, but I will try to say something less generic and more personal, like if the run was fun or particularly efficient or nice for whatever reason. But not just simply hi/bb, which is imho worse than not saying anything at all.
I will answer if someone says hi, but there again, I'll try to add something.

TL-DR : greeting or not greeting in a PUG chat can mean anything, everything and nothing, depending on the person, and it is in no way a criteria to judge someone's level of courtesy. OP is in my opinion very narrow-minded.

No, I don't say hello to strangers on the street, but I would always reply to a greeting, and also would say Hi if I'm engaged in an activity/interaction with a stranger, like the coffee scenario. That's my point.

If I'm honest, I hadn't considered people playing with controllers. Although, also if I'm honest, the number of controller players in PC-EU seems huge.