Isn't it time to reduce the drawbacks on Vampirism?

wheem_ESO

...Especially if Race Against Time goes live as it is now.

Certain classes and builds feel "forced" into playing Vampire on live, because it's the only way they get any real mobility. And even if the new Race Against Time goes live without being nerfed, that will remain true for everyone that doesn't have Summerset. But the drawbacks on Vampire are horrendous in PvP, and are about to get worse - I'm still pretty stunned at the buff to Dawnbreaker's damage, honestly.

+25% incoming flame damage and +20% damage on Dawnbreakers is just too harsh - and you can't even feed down to Stage 1 and forego all the benefits to counter the Dawnbreaker boost. Beyond the baseline drawbacks, I also think Mist Form could use some tweaks. While 75% damage reduction is certainly nothing to sneeze at, it's significantly more expensive than RAT, shuts off all natural magicka regeneration, cancels out all healing, and removes all ability for the user to do anything except move. All things considered, I don't see why anyone would ever use Mist Form/Vampirism if they have access to the PTS version of Race Against Time.

Some people may want to be Vampires for varying reasons that have nothing to do with PvP, so at the very least I'd remove Dawnbreaker's damage boost against any Vampire that's at Stage-1. Though that still leaves anyone that needs Mist Form for PvP-mobility up a creek with no paddle.

xMovingTarget

I wouldnt mind tbh. I dont or very rarely play pvp though. And in pvp, take less fire damge, great, gimme. Sadly it is unavoidable to run vamp just for the resource regen alone.. Every bit helps.

Vertilvius

No vampire is op, thats why anyone who knows what they are doing are vampires.

Chelo

wheem_ESO wrote: »

...Especially if Race Against Time goes live as it is now.

Certain classes and builds feel "forced" into playing Vampire on live, because it's the only way they get any real mobility. And even if the new Race Against Time goes live without being nerfed, that will remain true for everyone that doesn't have Summerset. But the drawbacks on Vampire are horrendous in PvP, and are about to get worse - I'm still pretty stunned at the buff to Dawnbreaker's damage, honestly.

+25% incoming flame damage and +20% damage on Dawnbreakers is just too harsh - and you can't even feed down to Stage 1 and forego all the benefits to counter the Dawnbreaker boost. Beyond the baseline drawbacks, I also think Mist Form could use some tweaks. While 75% damage reduction is certainly nothing to sneeze at, it's significantly more expensive than RAT, shuts off all natural magicka regeneration, cancels out all healing, and removes all ability for the user to do anything except move. All things considered, I don't see why anyone would ever use Mist Form/Vampirism if they have access to the PTS version of Race Against Time.

Some people may want to be Vampires for varying reasons that have nothing to do with PvP, so at the very least I'd remove Dawnbreaker's damage boost against any Vampire that's at Stage-1. Though that still leaves anyone that needs Mist Form for PvP-mobility up a creek with no paddle.

Mist Form is one of the best PvP skills of the game...

Beardimus

PvP - I'm sorry but Vamps are strong, hence we all run it! There should be less Vamps, its too default (many purely for regen) penalties should higher if anything, higher risk for the reward.

(I'm a vamp, so its not a bias)

Insco851

Mist form will remain the defensive choice while Rat the offensive. I could see a slight nerf to the vampire drawbacks “to better be in line” ... but you are at least a couple patches away before this gets traction.

Olupajmibanan

You guys are kinda late with your response. Vampirism got much weaker with change to mitigation formula with Wrathstone patch. Now, the increased fire damage taken is additive with other debuffs (Engulfing Flames, etc.) rather than multiplicative. This results in full +25% increase.

Damn, I am critting for 8k with Flame Lash to stage 4 vampires in Battlegrounds now

As of Wrathstone patch, Vampirism is a big NO in non-CP PvP.

What I completely agree with OP, stage 1 should not be subject to Skilled Tracker passive.

darkblue5

I mean it is already almost required in PvE for all roles. The main thing I could see is reducing the damage buff to daedric/undead/werewolf players a bit. It'd be nice to see the return of sun damage if that was the case....

I just want to see the pale nibblers burn. My magdk is almost ready to give that a try...

wheem_ESO

Beardimus wrote: »

PvP - I'm sorry but Vamps are strong, hence we all run it! There should be less Vamps, its too default (many purely for regen) penalties should higher if anything, higher risk for the reward.

(I'm a vamp, so its not a bias)

We "all" run it because there aren't any other mobility options for most Magicka builds right now (on live). I don't remember the last time I saw a Mag Sorc use Mist Form in a BG, for instance. Some other, non-Sorc builds also forego the benefits in order to not have the drawbacks, so I don't think it's as good as some people are making it out to be. +25% extra fire damage taken is obscene against a halfway competent Mag DK, and +20% incoming damage on the far and away most common offensive ultimate is also over the top (and will still come into play even if you feed down to Stage-1 and forego every benefit of Vampirism).

Who's going to keep Vampirism active once they get access to the new Race Against Time (assuming it doesn't get nerfed before the PTS ends)? There may be certain circumstances where Mist Form has an advantage, but overall? No way, especially in situations where one has competent teammates that actually help cross-heal.

darkblue5 wrote: »

I mean it is already almost required in PvE for all roles. The main thing I could see is reducing the damage buff to daedric/undead/werewolf players a bit. It'd be nice to see the return of sun damage if that was the case....

I just want to see the pale nibblers burn. My magdk is almost ready to give that a try...

It being "required" outside of PvP is good support for my argument; at least the part about all drawbacks being nullified at Stage-1.

I'm fine with "adjustments" being made to Vampirism, rather than just straight up buffs (notice that I mentioned "tweaks" to Mist Form in the OP). If Mist Form's damage reduction needs to be nerfed - fine, as long as some of the other drawbacks are also reduced.

Icy_Waffles

The changes to Dawnbreaker are not really a buff at all.

wheem_ESO

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

The changes to Dawnbreaker are not really a buff at all.

It takes 6 seconds for the DOT to fully tick, instead of 5 as on live, but it got an overall damage boost. Considering it can already do 7k+ on many Vampires in no-CP, that was completely unnecessary. It's not at all uncommon (on live) to eat more damage from Dawnbreaker over 1 second than I take from a full 8 seconds of Permafrost, which some people act like is the most overpowered Ultimate in the game (prior to the Rezz Ult from Necromancers, anyway).

Dawnbreaker doesn't give an obvious telegraph, doesn't have a high cost, combo's extraordinarily well with Stamina builds (especially when coordinated with multiple players), and gets +20% damage vs Vampires even if they feed down to Stage-1. It most certainly doesn't need any buffs, so even a modest damage increase is a bit perplexing...there are reasons it's used so widely, and an extra 1 second delay on the first DOT tick isn't going to change that (neither would removing the damage bonus against Vampires and transformed Werewolves).

Silver_Strider

Tbf, Stamina is more or less forced to run Dawnbreaker for similar reasons Magic builds are forced to run Vampire. The alternatives are $#!%. At least Magic builds have the option to go Vampire or use RAT vs Stamina pretty much still needing to run Dawnbreaker because of how lackluster Stamina Ultimates are; even Incap is looking to be replaced by Dawnbreaker after the nerf to it, which says a hell of a lot about how powerful Dawnbreaker is.

It's unlikely ZOS will adjust Vampire's Weakness given the trade offs of Benefits vs Weaknesses, Vampire walks a fine line of being balanced enough as it is. I see a nerf to Dawnbreaker long before I see a buff to Vampire.