wish pets werent so strong

GrumpyDuckling

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

It's not from no where it's a slot used and most likely on both bars . That's a sacrifice .

^See here. This thread doesn't need to go much further than that.

Apox wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Just think of them as DOTs. DPS in ESO comes from DOTs, of which Sorcerers don't otherwise have very many. Pets provide the damage that Sorcs are lacking compared to classes like DKs and Nightblades. Do you really want Sorcs to do less damage? Because that's what's going to happen if pets get nerfed.

When you guys grumble about pets, it's basically like a DK coming on here and complaining that he doesn't want to use fire spells because he wants to be a frost mage instead. Do you think ZOS should nerf all the DK fire spells just so some guy's "Frost Knight" build can seem viable? Because that's EXACTLY what you guys sound like. Absurd!

I'm sorry you guys don't like pets, but they have ALWAYS been a huge chunk of the Sorcerer tool kit. The difference between now and 2014 is that now the pets actually pull their weight. Nobody tricked you when you rolled a Sorc, you knew what you were getting into. You can either use the pets or not, but please don't try get other Sorcs nerfed just because you can't get with the program.

wow. just wow.

why do you think i played magsorc rather than stamdk. its because i dont like the dot based gameplay. magsorc was drop conduit/blockade/haunting curse, then reactionary based gameplay of proccing cfrags

if the player who plays magdk prefers more frost based spells, maybe he should play a mag warden with a frost staff.

pets have never been a huge chunk of sorc toolkit. they existed to compensate for bad players who couldnt do a real rotation with proper weaving. now theyve just been too far overbuffed plain and simply. theres a reason why so many people run the alcast 1-bar vma petsorc build. its because theyre bad at the game. every high end magsorc i know that has a respectable parse hates the pets.

now, if i want to progress vet trial score runs, im actively holding the team back unless i use pets.

Glad this post exists, though, because it gives insight to the kind of attitude OP has. They write, "[Pets] existed to compensate for bad players who couldnt do a real rotation with proper weaving." That's enough to see where this OP's head is at.

Alienoutlaw

Juhasow wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

there is virtually no difference if the build is right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8lY7ANfBLw

Non Pet rotation 51.2k DPS 3M dummy parse 00:17
Cmx report 01:20
Superstar 01:32

Pet rotation 53.3k DPS 3M dummy parse 01:36
Cmx report 02:38
Superstar 02:51

just for info

53k with pet on 3M dummy ? Your're doing something wrong. For me when I get less then 56k with pet that means I screwed rotation really badly.

Here is example of what You can get with pet. This is selfbuffed btw minor berserk comes from slimecraw.

Btw in Your rotation without pet You were really lucky with crits while during parse with pet Your crits were pretty weak so that makes those 2 parses closer then they should be.

not my parse lol was a video i found for reference
(edited for clarity)

karekiz

Tasear wrote: »

Indeed twlight Maritach should not do damage and instead give it real utility 😏

I can agree that heal flappy probably needs a tone down. Granted I think all self heals need to be redesigned with a new heal power line in the first place nuking self heals down to a manageable level.

I also think Tormentor needs a redesign as well. Its just a weird ability that only is used 1/2 the encounter. Would rather it be similar to our new passive that starts at 50% more damage for 100-50 - then decrease over time to something like 5% during execute.

Lord-Otto

Juhasow wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

there is virtually no difference if the build is right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8lY7ANfBLw

Non Pet rotation 51.2k DPS 3M dummy parse 00:17
Cmx report 01:20
Superstar 01:32

Pet rotation 53.3k DPS 3M dummy parse 01:36
Cmx report 02:38
Superstar 02:51

just for info

53k with pet on 3M dummy ? Your're doing something wrong. For me when I get less then 56k with pet that means I screwed rotation really badly.

Here is example of what You can get with pet. This is selfbuffed btw minor berserk comes from slimecraw.

Btw in Your rotation without pet You were really lucky with crits while during parse with pet Your crits were pretty weak so that makes those 2 parses closer then they should be.

You know, that's actually not a true pet build. It's just a non-pet sorc (Elemental Weapon, fire staff) with the Twilight added in. The important thing missing is the Scamp.
So, what I gather is that non-pet still deals more damage than pet (Scamp). The Twilight is very strong, so much it actually enhances a non-pet rotation. If you have the barspace. You do have a shield slotted for mechanics, and Frags to buff your group with Prophecy, right? It's not just a dummy cheese?
This means you can't just nerf Twilight. It'll worsen true pet sorcs even more. In fact, the Scamp needs a buff. This is what your stats show.

Chims

Apox wrote: »

like i said, my matriarch is morphed to heal, not damage. its literally a 3k dps gain just for having a different ability on my bar. it does damage by itself

i think players who want the pet playstyle should be accommodated for, but they shouldnt absolutely blow away nonpet builds where the actual player is in control of 100% of their damage, not getting a lot of it from pets that are always attacking doing nothing wrong

Ok remove inner light so you don't have major prophecy or remove major sorcery and retest without pets. Literary 2 effects that are must haves and are doing exactly what you are complaining about, adding passive damage.

IzzyStardust

Apox wrote: »

like i said, my matriarch is morphed to heal, not damage. its literally a 3k dps gain just for having a different ability on my bar. it does damage by itself

i think players who want the pet playstyle should be accommodated for, but they shouldnt absolutely blow away nonpet builds where the actual player is in control of 100% of their damage, not getting a lot of it from pets that are always attacking doing nothing wrong

Quit playing sorc. Problem solved. (lol sorry )

Juhasow

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

there is virtually no difference if the build is right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8lY7ANfBLw

Non Pet rotation 51.2k DPS 3M dummy parse 00:17
Cmx report 01:20
Superstar 01:32

Pet rotation 53.3k DPS 3M dummy parse 01:36
Cmx report 02:38
Superstar 02:51

just for info

53k with pet on 3M dummy ? Your're doing something wrong. For me when I get less then 56k with pet that means I screwed rotation really badly.

Here is example of what You can get with pet. This is selfbuffed btw minor berserk comes from slimecraw.

Btw in Your rotation without pet You were really lucky with crits while during parse with pet Your crits were pretty weak so that makes those 2 parses closer then they should be.

You know, that's actually not a true pet build. It's just a non-pet sorc (Elemental Weapon, fire staff) with the Twilight added in. The important thing missing is the Scamp.
So, what I gather is that non-pet still deals more damage than pet (Scamp). The Twilight is very strong, so much it actually enhances a non-pet rotation. If you have the barspace. You do have a shield slotted for mechanics, and Frags to buff your group with Prophecy, right? It's not just a dummy cheese?
This means you can't just nerf Twilight. It'll worsen true pet sorcs even more. In fact, the Scamp needs a buff. This is what your stats show.

Say what @Lord-Otto ? Are there some additional rules now to be considered as "petsorc" other then using a pet ? Now You're saying there are "true" and "false" pet sorcs ? So sorc with 1 pet is false petsorc and only 2 pets makes You true petsorc ? That's wierd because last time when scamp was OP like hell around homestead and every sorc was running just with it everyone was calling that setup petsorc but now when scamp was replaced with twilight it's no longer a pet build ? Or is it only a scamp that makes You a "true petsorc" and twilight is inferior and doesnt count ? It's funny then because every build in PvP that runs with twilight is also considered as petsorc.

Using a pet no matter which one makes You a pet-sorc and what skills and gear You use with it it's just a matter of optimising the setup to get best results. That is why I used elemental weapon and fire staff because it gives best results. You want to tell me that to become "true petsorc" I need to gimp myself down and run with lightning staff and force pulse because this is what "true petsorcs" are doing ? There is only 1 rule to be considered as a pet-sorc : having atleast 1 pet slotted. What You're saying about "true petsorc" is just pure delusion and bending reality to the needs of Your arguments.

For the record it was fully selfbuffed parse with ele drain used by me so in group enviroment I would slot shield instead of ele drain. As for frags umm look at the parse maybe ? Frag is the 2nd ability there and minor prophecy uptime is 100%.

Dalsinthus

Apox wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

gotta be the 1st time i have ever read on this forum nerf something i find it to easy, sounds more like someone keeps getting killed by them built one to see wot the fuss was about

well youd be wrong.

i just dont like having to use pets in pve

I don't like it so nerf it? GTFO with this attitude. I honestly do not understand the constant call to nerf everything on these forums. There's like 30 of these threads daily here.

Embrace pets on a sorc or don't. Both do fine dps. Or play a different class if that's what makes you happy. But please stop trying to ruin everything for the rest of us.

The_Lex

Apox wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

gotta be the 1st time i have ever read on this forum nerf something i find it to easy, sounds more like someone keeps getting killed by them built one to see wot the fuss was about

well youd be wrong.

i just dont like having to use pets in pve

nobody is saying you have to?

for score pushing in trials, yes I do. good job not reading my other replies.

If you're score pushing, then there are other classes better suited to that than a Sorc.

The_Lex

If the pet build did equal damage as the non-pet, what would be the incentive to run pets? Honest question.

My first answer is NONE. I wouldn't, and I run my sorc through vet HM trials. Hence, ZOS incentivizes the pet sorc play style by buffing pets. This is my guess anyway.

idk

dazee wrote: »

Remove trial and VMA Leaderboards entirely no more being forced into certain races and builds. Win Win for everyone who isnt an arsehole who wants to prove themselves "better" than everyone else.

Leaderboard are not the cause or a fault. Anyone who has been part of a guild serious about clearing raid content or other MMORPGs when they are set to the more challenging settings knows they have to use a solid build for their class. Play as you want has more to do with what you want to do. If you want to do challenging content you will have limited choices.

Heck, in some MMORPGs if you are using skills in the wrong order you will not be performing well and not be running with a good team. The more challenging the content the more someone has to prove themselves. Your comment is really that inaccurate.

Lord-Otto

Juhasow wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

there is virtually no difference if the build is right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8lY7ANfBLw

Non Pet rotation 51.2k DPS 3M dummy parse 00:17
Cmx report 01:20
Superstar 01:32

Pet rotation 53.3k DPS 3M dummy parse 01:36
Cmx report 02:38
Superstar 02:51

just for info

53k with pet on 3M dummy ? Your're doing something wrong. For me when I get less then 56k with pet that means I screwed rotation really badly.

Here is example of what You can get with pet. This is selfbuffed btw minor berserk comes from slimecraw.

Btw in Your rotation without pet You were really lucky with crits while during parse with pet Your crits were pretty weak so that makes those 2 parses closer then they should be.

You know, that's actually not a true pet build. It's just a non-pet sorc (Elemental Weapon, fire staff) with the Twilight added in. The important thing missing is the Scamp.
So, what I gather is that non-pet still deals more damage than pet (Scamp). The Twilight is very strong, so much it actually enhances a non-pet rotation. If you have the barspace. You do have a shield slotted for mechanics, and Frags to buff your group with Prophecy, right? It's not just a dummy cheese?
This means you can't just nerf Twilight. It'll worsen true pet sorcs even more. In fact, the Scamp needs a buff. This is what your stats show.

Say what @Lord-Otto ? Are there some additional rules now to be considered as "petsorc" other then using a pet ? Now You're saying there are "true" and "false" pet sorcs ? So sorc with 1 pet is false petsorc and only 2 pets makes You true petsorc ? That's wierd because last time when scamp was OP like hell around homestead and every sorc was running just with it everyone was calling that setup petsorc but now when scamp was replaced with twilight it's no longer a pet build ? Or is it only a scamp that makes You a "true petsorc" and twilight is inferior and doesnt count ? It's funny then because every build in PvP that runs with twilight is also considered as petsorc.

Using a pet no matter which one makes You a pet-sorc and what skills and gear You use with it it's just a matter of optimising the setup to get best results. That is why I used elemental weapon and fire staff because it gives best results. You want to tell me that to become "true petsorc" I need to gimp myself down and run with lightning staff and force pulse because this is what "true petsorcs" are doing ? There is only 1 rule to be considered as a pet-sorc : having atleast 1 pet slotted. What You're saying about "true petsorc" is just pure delusion and bending reality to the needs of Your arguments.

For the record it was fully selfbuffed parse with ele drain used by me so in group enviroment I would slot shield instead of ele drain. As for frags umm look at the parse maybe ? Frag is the 2nd ability there and minor prophecy uptime is 100%.

The Scamp is indeed a gamechanger and it's the oldest pet being used in a pet build. That is why I call it a "true" petsorc. You can call it "traditional" if those semantics suit you better. And you're not making naming rules, neither. According to you, using the Atronach alone would make a pet build. Eh. The Scamp requires a lightning staff and heavy attacks, a significant variation from non-pet rotations. Scamp builds also don't use Force Pulse.

Anyways, you cemented my point. Non-pet rotation (Force/Elemental+fire) is stronger than TRADITIONAL pet (Scamp+lightning). You said that yourself. Which means the Scamp does indeed need a buff.

(I missed the Frags and Cyrodiil has other builds than PvE, therefore other names)

Kikke

They are nerfing abit of the extra dmg on pets from curse. They will be dragged down to the attros %dmg increase. Might help with non-pet sorcs being forced to one pet, or it might not change anything.

Emma_Overload

karekiz wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Indeed twlight Maritach should not do damage and instead give it real utility 😏

I can agree that heal flappy probably needs a tone down. Granted I think all self heals need to be redesigned with a new heal power line in the first place nuking self heals down to a manageable level.

I also think Tormentor needs a redesign as well. Its just a weird ability that only is used 1/2 the encounter. Would rather it be similar to our new passive that starts at 50% more damage for 100-50 - then decrease over time to something like 5% during execute.

Yeah, I wish the extra damage would just be a passive, while the special attack did something interesting. What if the Tormentor special attack was the spammable Sorcs always wished we had?

Juhasow

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

there is virtually no difference if the build is right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8lY7ANfBLw

Non Pet rotation 51.2k DPS 3M dummy parse 00:17
Cmx report 01:20
Superstar 01:32

Pet rotation 53.3k DPS 3M dummy parse 01:36
Cmx report 02:38
Superstar 02:51

just for info

53k with pet on 3M dummy ? Your're doing something wrong. For me when I get less then 56k with pet that means I screwed rotation really badly.

Here is example of what You can get with pet. This is selfbuffed btw minor berserk comes from slimecraw.

Btw in Your rotation without pet You were really lucky with crits while during parse with pet Your crits were pretty weak so that makes those 2 parses closer then they should be.

You know, that's actually not a true pet build. It's just a non-pet sorc (Elemental Weapon, fire staff) with the Twilight added in. The important thing missing is the Scamp.
So, what I gather is that non-pet still deals more damage than pet (Scamp). The Twilight is very strong, so much it actually enhances a non-pet rotation. If you have the barspace. You do have a shield slotted for mechanics, and Frags to buff your group with Prophecy, right? It's not just a dummy cheese?
This means you can't just nerf Twilight. It'll worsen true pet sorcs even more. In fact, the Scamp needs a buff. This is what your stats show.

Say what @Lord-Otto ? Are there some additional rules now to be considered as "petsorc" other then using a pet ? Now You're saying there are "true" and "false" pet sorcs ? So sorc with 1 pet is false petsorc and only 2 pets makes You true petsorc ? That's wierd because last time when scamp was OP like hell around homestead and every sorc was running just with it everyone was calling that setup petsorc but now when scamp was replaced with twilight it's no longer a pet build ? Or is it only a scamp that makes You a "true petsorc" and twilight is inferior and doesnt count ? It's funny then because every build in PvP that runs with twilight is also considered as petsorc.

Using a pet no matter which one makes You a pet-sorc and what skills and gear You use with it it's just a matter of optimising the setup to get best results. That is why I used elemental weapon and fire staff because it gives best results. You want to tell me that to become "true petsorc" I need to gimp myself down and run with lightning staff and force pulse because this is what "true petsorcs" are doing ? There is only 1 rule to be considered as a pet-sorc : having atleast 1 pet slotted. What You're saying about "true petsorc" is just pure delusion and bending reality to the needs of Your arguments.

For the record it was fully selfbuffed parse with ele drain used by me so in group enviroment I would slot shield instead of ele drain. As for frags umm look at the parse maybe ? Frag is the 2nd ability there and minor prophecy uptime is 100%.

The Scamp is indeed a gamechanger and it's the oldest pet being used in a pet build. That is why I call it a "true" petsorc. You can call it "traditional" if those semantics suit you better. And you're not making naming rules, neither. According to you, using the Atronach alone would make a pet build. Eh. The Scamp requires a lightning staff and heavy attacks, a significant variation from non-pet rotations. Scamp builds also don't use Force Pulse.

Anyways, you cemented my point. Non-pet rotation (Force/Elemental+fire) is stronger than TRADITIONAL pet (Scamp+lightning). You said that yourself. Which means the Scamp does indeed need a buff.

(I missed the Frags and Cyrodiil has other builds than PvE, therefore other names)

Scamp is not "traditional" pet. It was simply used 1st because it was broken like hell when it becam a meta. Now ZoS finally rebalanced strenght of sorcs pets and scamp is doing more AoE dmg and twilight more single target which is finally as it always should be. Fact that scamp was broken 1st doesnt mean it's traditional pet that just means ZoS is weak at balancing things. Let me rephrase my naming rules since I see You're really stubborn in Your delusion. To be called a petsorc You need atleast 1 pet double slotted and active. Now You're happy ? There is no "traditional" pet build or pet rotation. Game changes so the setups and rotations. The only name for Your theory that would match is "old fashioned" not "traditional" or "true". Btw I use also a daedric prey so I dont think my rotation is the same as non pet sorc which is using haunting curse.

Scamp+lightning staff is also a pet build but it's "old fashioned" now new meta for petsorc in single target fights is fire staff and twilight. For AoE fights though You can use lightnnig staff and scamp. Scamp should never be primary pet for single target fights. That was just flaw in design on ZoS side which they finally fixed and no scamp does not need a buff. It still does it job in AoE fights which is his area of expertise. Anything else like requirements of heavy attacks etc it's also just "old fashioned" ways from the old time of weaker sustain etc. Game is changing same as setups and rotations. Currently even with lightning staff and scamp You'll do more DPS with light attack rotation then with heavy attacks. By the logic of Your naming rules there isnt true petsorc in the game anyway because nobody plays petsorcs currently as he would in 2014. By that logic there is no true or traditional setup of any kind currently because nobody plays now the way people were playing in 2014 when 1st builds of any kind were created. Using any active sorc pet makes You a petsorc Your prefferences decides do You want to play it in old fashioned or best in slot ways. Fact that You want for that pet to be scamp and You want to pair it with lightning staff and use heavy attacks all the way through doesnt mean everyone else who wont do that cannot be called petsorc it just means You're stucked in 2017.

RedJoker

wish [insert whatever playstyle you don't enjoy] wasn't so strong

olsborg

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

It's not from no where it's a slot used and most likely on both bars . That's a sacrifice .

Given how sorc pets require 2 slots, they are now for the first time worth those 2 slots imo

Juhasow

olsborg wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

It's not from no where it's a slot used and most likely on both bars . That's a sacrifice .

Given how sorc pets require 2 slots, they are now for the first time worth those 2 slots imo

To be fair when You take under consideration things like pets damage+secondary efects their current strenght is like putting 3 abilities on slots. Twilight in PvP grant You heal better then BoL spam (smaller max heal but bigger overall heal+360 degreee radius+way cheaper then BoL) and damage higher them most of single target DoTs for free. Scamp gives You decent single target + decent AoE + delayed stun.

Lord-Otto

Juhasow wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

there is virtually no difference if the build is right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8lY7ANfBLw

Non Pet rotation 51.2k DPS 3M dummy parse 00:17
Cmx report 01:20
Superstar 01:32

Pet rotation 53.3k DPS 3M dummy parse 01:36
Cmx report 02:38
Superstar 02:51

just for info

53k with pet on 3M dummy ? Your're doing something wrong. For me when I get less then 56k with pet that means I screwed rotation really badly.

Here is example of what You can get with pet. This is selfbuffed btw minor berserk comes from slimecraw.

Btw in Your rotation without pet You were really lucky with crits while during parse with pet Your crits were pretty weak so that makes those 2 parses closer then they should be.

You know, that's actually not a true pet build. It's just a non-pet sorc (Elemental Weapon, fire staff) with the Twilight added in. The important thing missing is the Scamp.
So, what I gather is that non-pet still deals more damage than pet (Scamp). The Twilight is very strong, so much it actually enhances a non-pet rotation. If you have the barspace. You do have a shield slotted for mechanics, and Frags to buff your group with Prophecy, right? It's not just a dummy cheese?
This means you can't just nerf Twilight. It'll worsen true pet sorcs even more. In fact, the Scamp needs a buff. This is what your stats show.

Say what @Lord-Otto ? Are there some additional rules now to be considered as "petsorc" other then using a pet ? Now You're saying there are "true" and "false" pet sorcs ? So sorc with 1 pet is false petsorc and only 2 pets makes You true petsorc ? That's wierd because last time when scamp was OP like hell around homestead and every sorc was running just with it everyone was calling that setup petsorc but now when scamp was replaced with twilight it's no longer a pet build ? Or is it only a scamp that makes You a "true petsorc" and twilight is inferior and doesnt count ? It's funny then because every build in PvP that runs with twilight is also considered as petsorc.

Using a pet no matter which one makes You a pet-sorc and what skills and gear You use with it it's just a matter of optimising the setup to get best results. That is why I used elemental weapon and fire staff because it gives best results. You want to tell me that to become "true petsorc" I need to gimp myself down and run with lightning staff and force pulse because this is what "true petsorcs" are doing ? There is only 1 rule to be considered as a pet-sorc : having atleast 1 pet slotted. What You're saying about "true petsorc" is just pure delusion and bending reality to the needs of Your arguments.

For the record it was fully selfbuffed parse with ele drain used by me so in group enviroment I would slot shield instead of ele drain. As for frags umm look at the parse maybe ? Frag is the 2nd ability there and minor prophecy uptime is 100%.

The Scamp is indeed a gamechanger and it's the oldest pet being used in a pet build. That is why I call it a "true" petsorc. You can call it "traditional" if those semantics suit you better. And you're not making naming rules, neither. According to you, using the Atronach alone would make a pet build. Eh. The Scamp requires a lightning staff and heavy attacks, a significant variation from non-pet rotations. Scamp builds also don't use Force Pulse.

Anyways, you cemented my point. Non-pet rotation (Force/Elemental+fire) is stronger than TRADITIONAL pet (Scamp+lightning). You said that yourself. Which means the Scamp does indeed need a buff.

(I missed the Frags and Cyrodiil has other builds than PvE, therefore other names)

Scamp is not "traditional" pet. It was simply used 1st because it was broken like hell when it becam a meta. Now ZoS finally rebalanced strenght of sorcs pets and scamp is doing more AoE dmg and twilight more single target which is finally as it always should be. Fact that scamp was broken 1st doesnt mean it's traditional pet that just means ZoS is weak at balancing things. Let me rephrase my naming rules since I see You're really stubborn in Your delusion. To be called a petsorc You need atleast 1 pet double slotted and active. Now You're happy ? There is no "traditional" pet build or pet rotation. Game changes so the setups and rotations. The only name for Your theory that would match is "old fashioned" not "traditional" or "true". Btw I use also a daedric prey so I dont think my rotation is the same as non pet sorc which is using haunting curse.

Scamp+lightning staff is also a pet build but it's "old fashioned" now new meta for petsorc in single target fights is fire staff and twilight. For AoE fights though You can use lightnnig staff and scamp. Scamp should never be primary pet for single target fights. That was just flaw in design on ZoS side which they finally fixed and no scamp does not need a buff. It still does it job in AoE fights which is his area of expertise. Anything else like requirements of heavy attacks etc it's also just "old fashioned" ways from the old time of weaker sustain etc. Game is changing same as setups and rotations. Currently even with lightning staff and scamp You'll do more DPS with light attack rotation then with heavy attacks. By the logic of Your naming rules there isnt true petsorc in the game anyway because nobody plays petsorcs currently as he would in 2014. By that logic there is no true or traditional setup of any kind currently because nobody plays now the way people were playing in 2014 when 1st builds of any kind were created. Using any active sorc pet makes You a petsorc Your prefferences decides do You want to play it in old fashioned or best in slot ways. Fact that You want for that pet to be scamp and You want to pair it with lightning staff and use heavy attacks all the way through doesnt mean everyone else who wont do that cannot be called petsorc it just means You're stucked in 2017.

God, I'm talking to a wall here. You just don't get it. SCAMP NEEDS LIGHTNING STAFF. That's the big one here. You can't apply your rotation to a (whatever) sorc with Scamp. Is this so hard to comprehend?
So in order to keep the Scamp competitive, it requires quite the buff to make up for the inferior rotation. AoE is a strawman argument, counts for ship in a boss fight. Those few bosses that actually have many ads are being dealth with with your standard AoEs like Wall, Hail, Path, etc. Scamp AoE is not needed.
Oh, and Maw of the Infernal with Atronach and Daedric Prey most certainly is a pet build. Again, you don't have the authority to decide naming here neither, no matter how angry you get. Now chill down, man.

r34lian

Apox wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

I want pets to be strong but I want them to not be required. this means taking pets has to have a overall downside to it. it does becuase you have to double bar though.

it doesnt because the skills you replace with pets were already double barred to begin with

Crystal Frag , power surge , mage wrath all single bar

Checkmath

Where is the first comment about how bad pet sorcs are in PvP?

Artemiisia

Juhasow wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

there is virtually no difference if the build is right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8lY7ANfBLw

Non Pet rotation 51.2k DPS 3M dummy parse 00:17
Cmx report 01:20
Superstar 01:32

Pet rotation 53.3k DPS 3M dummy parse 01:36
Cmx report 02:38
Superstar 02:51

just for info

53k with pet on 3M dummy ? Your're doing something wrong. For me when I get less then 56k with pet that means I screwed rotation really badly.

Here is example of what You can get with pet. This is selfbuffed btw minor berserk comes from slimecraw.

Btw in Your rotation without pet You were really lucky with crits while during parse with pet Your crits were pretty weak so that makes those 2 parses closer then they should be.

im more curious how you get 13k light attacks, when most people I see get only 6-9k light attacks

Checkmath

Artemiisia wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

there is virtually no difference if the build is right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8lY7ANfBLw

Non Pet rotation 51.2k DPS 3M dummy parse 00:17
Cmx report 01:20
Superstar 01:32

Pet rotation 53.3k DPS 3M dummy parse 01:36
Cmx report 02:38
Superstar 02:51

just for info

53k with pet on 3M dummy ? Your're doing something wrong. For me when I get less then 56k with pet that means I screwed rotation really badly.

Here is example of what You can get with pet. This is selfbuffed btw minor berserk comes from slimecraw.

Btw in Your rotation without pet You were really lucky with crits while during parse with pet Your crits were pretty weak so that makes those 2 parses closer then they should be.

im more curious how you get 13k light attacks, when most people I see get only 6-9k light attacks

That damage numbers on light attacks is pretty normal. If you get lower numbers there, either you miss a lot of light attacks between skills or you do not use a maehlstrom staff...or both. Light attacks are normally the number one damage source in such dps parses.

Artemiisia

Checkmath wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

there is virtually no difference if the build is right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8lY7ANfBLw

Non Pet rotation 51.2k DPS 3M dummy parse 00:17
Cmx report 01:20
Superstar 01:32

Pet rotation 53.3k DPS 3M dummy parse 01:36
Cmx report 02:38
Superstar 02:51

just for info

53k with pet on 3M dummy ? Your're doing something wrong. For me when I get less then 56k with pet that means I screwed rotation really badly.

Here is example of what You can get with pet. This is selfbuffed btw minor berserk comes from slimecraw.

Btw in Your rotation without pet You were really lucky with crits while during parse with pet Your crits were pretty weak so that makes those 2 parses closer then they should be.

im more curious how you get 13k light attacks, when most people I see get only 6-9k light attacks

That damage numbers on light attacks is pretty normal. If you get lower numbers there, either you miss a lot of light attacks between skills or you do not use a maehlstrom staff...or both. Light attacks are normally the number one damage source in such dps parses.

if im reading the parse right, you had 42 light attacks during the whole parse?


This parse is done with what you saying, and had 61 light attacks for the parse



so when I see 13k light attack, im gussin its another chesse mechanic like eye scream food, probably with champion points that wont work in real fight or something

Checkmath

Artemiisia wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

there is virtually no difference if the build is right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8lY7ANfBLw

Non Pet rotation 51.2k DPS 3M dummy parse 00:17
Cmx report 01:20
Superstar 01:32

Pet rotation 53.3k DPS 3M dummy parse 01:36
Cmx report 02:38
Superstar 02:51

just for info

53k with pet on 3M dummy ? Your're doing something wrong. For me when I get less then 56k with pet that means I screwed rotation really badly.

Here is example of what You can get with pet. This is selfbuffed btw minor berserk comes from slimecraw.

Btw in Your rotation without pet You were really lucky with crits while during parse with pet Your crits were pretty weak so that makes those 2 parses closer then they should be.

im more curious how you get 13k light attacks, when most people I see get only 6-9k light attacks

That damage numbers on light attacks is pretty normal. If you get lower numbers there, either you miss a lot of light attacks between skills or you do not use a maehlstrom staff...or both. Light attacks are normally the number one damage source in such dps parses.

if im reading the parse right, you had 42 light attacks during the whole parse?


This parse is done with what you saying, and had 61 light attacks for the parse



so when I see 13k light attack, im gussin its another chesse mechanic like eye scream food, probably with champion points that wont work in real fight or something

Please have a closer look at those two parses:

The first one has 42 light attacks in 46 seconds, so basically almost every second a light attack. The guy with the first parse almost never missed a light attack between skills, so perfect weaving (light attack, skill, light attack, skill, etc...)

Now your parse: 61 light attacks in 106 seconds. This is less than 60% of light attacks you could have done in that time frame, meaning that you naturally have at least 40% less damage on light attacks.

His light attacks dealt around 14k on average, yours like 11k. Difference is surely found in the build. He has more spelldamage, more crit and slightly less magicka. So naturally his light attacks will also deal more damage anyway. Then cps might also be a part there: Light attacks damage gets increased by the specific tree increasing light attacks with staves and by master at arms (increasing direct damage). Maybe he has a better setup of cps too.

Artemiisia

oh thx, so its the speed of the light attacks between the skills that needs to be improved

@Checkmath thx, now I have something to work on, I almost were giving up on getting it higher, and having better understanding of it

Juhasow

Checkmath wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

there is virtually no difference if the build is right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8lY7ANfBLw

Non Pet rotation 51.2k DPS 3M dummy parse 00:17
Cmx report 01:20
Superstar 01:32

Pet rotation 53.3k DPS 3M dummy parse 01:36
Cmx report 02:38
Superstar 02:51

just for info

53k with pet on 3M dummy ? Your're doing something wrong. For me when I get less then 56k with pet that means I screwed rotation really badly.

Here is example of what You can get with pet. This is selfbuffed btw minor berserk comes from slimecraw.

Btw in Your rotation without pet You were really lucky with crits while during parse with pet Your crits were pretty weak so that makes those 2 parses closer then they should be.

im more curious how you get 13k light attacks, when most people I see get only 6-9k light attacks

That damage numbers on light attacks is pretty normal. If you get lower numbers there, either you miss a lot of light attacks between skills or you do not use a maehlstrom staff...or both. Light attacks are normally the number one damage source in such dps parses.

if im reading the parse right, you had 42 light attacks during the whole parse?


This parse is done with what you saying, and had 61 light attacks for the parse



so when I see 13k light attack, im gussin its another chesse mechanic like eye scream food, probably with champion points that wont work in real fight or something

Please have a closer look at those two parses:

The first one has 42 light attacks in 46 seconds, so basically almost every second a light attack. The guy with the first parse almost never missed a light attack between skills, so perfect weaving (light attack, skill, light attack, skill, etc...)

Now your parse: 61 light attacks in 106 seconds. This is less than 60% of light attacks you could have done in that time frame, meaning that you naturally have at least 40% less damage on light attacks.

His light attacks dealt around 14k on average, yours like 11k. Difference is surely found in the build. He has more spelldamage, more crit and slightly less magicka. So naturally his light attacks will also deal more damage anyway. Then cps might also be a part there: Light attacks damage gets increased by the specific tree increasing light attacks with staves and by master at arms (increasing direct damage). Maybe he has a better setup of cps too.

Actually he/she have 61+24=85 light attacks. Because of 2 different staves there is lightning and flame light attacks DPS separately.

Juhasow

Artemiisia wrote: »

oh thx, so its the speed of the light attacks between the skills that needs to be improved

Checkmath thx, now I have something to work on, I almost were giving up on getting it higher, and having better understanding of it

Yout light attack DPS in the parse You've linked is not 6k but almost 9k. If You use lightning and flame staff then those components show separately in combat metrics. Still You had only 85 light attacks in 106 seconds on fight. So Your la/sec ratio is 85/106=0.8. It's not bad but still can be better. If You want to consider Yourself really good at light attack weaving You want to go over 0,85 and if You want to consider Your light attack weaving as perfected You want ratio above 0,9. And as checkmath already said there is propably more differences between our setups resulting with me getting more base dmg out of light attacks.

Morgul667

Consider pets as dots and youre fine

Morgul667

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

It's not from no where it's a slot used and most likely on both bars . That's a sacrifice .

^See here. This thread doesn't need to go much further than that.

Apox wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Just think of them as DOTs. DPS in ESO comes from DOTs, of which Sorcerers don't otherwise have very many. Pets provide the damage that Sorcs are lacking compared to classes like DKs and Nightblades. Do you really want Sorcs to do less damage? Because that's what's going to happen if pets get nerfed.

When you guys grumble about pets, it's basically like a DK coming on here and complaining that he doesn't want to use fire spells because he wants to be a frost mage instead. Do you think ZOS should nerf all the DK fire spells just so some guy's "Frost Knight" build can seem viable? Because that's EXACTLY what you guys sound like. Absurd!

I'm sorry you guys don't like pets, but they have ALWAYS been a huge chunk of the Sorcerer tool kit. The difference between now and 2014 is that now the pets actually pull their weight. Nobody tricked you when you rolled a Sorc, you knew what you were getting into. You can either use the pets or not, but please don't try get other Sorcs nerfed just because you can't get with the program.

wow. just wow.

why do you think i played magsorc rather than stamdk. its because i dont like the dot based gameplay. magsorc was drop conduit/blockade/haunting curse, then reactionary based gameplay of proccing cfrags

if the player who plays magdk prefers more frost based spells, maybe he should play a mag warden with a frost staff.

pets have never been a huge chunk of sorc toolkit. they existed to compensate for bad players who couldnt do a real rotation with proper weaving. now theyve just been too far overbuffed plain and simply. theres a reason why so many people run the alcast 1-bar vma petsorc build. its because theyre bad at the game. every high end magsorc i know that has a respectable parse hates the pets.

now, if i want to progress vet trial score runs, im actively holding the team back unless i use pets.

Glad this post exists, though, because it gives insight to the kind of attitude OP has. They write, "[Pets] existed to compensate for bad players who couldnt do a real rotation with proper weaving." That's enough to see where this OP's head is at.

Good point

Does not need to go further then