Just let us mount while stuck in combat if you can't fix it

ArenGesus

The stuck in combat bug is so irritating. The biggest grief though, in my opinion, is being unable to mount. But why can't we mount while in combat anyway? I really can't see a reason for it. You could make it so that getting attacked while mounted and in combat immediately knocks you off your mount regardless of stamina, and I think that would be fair. What's the drawback? You're fighting somebody and they want to get away so they mount up and race off? Who cares? Sorcs can do it without a mount, why can't everybody? They wouldn't get far anyway because one ranged hit or gap closer would take them down again.

So if you can't fix the actual problem, then why not just remove some of the restrictions associated with it? Maybe I haven't thought it through all the way, but I really don't see a downside.

shaielzafine

after all this time and all the complaints on forums they still haven't fixed it. They should just consider your suggestion since it looks like they have bigger problems relating actually logging in and those pesky disconnects lol

Siohwenoeht

It is quite irritating, but I'm afraid if they allow us to mount while in combat it would lead to a whole new problem. Can you imagine the sshow if your in cyro fighting and your opponent mounts up to kite or outrun a ranged attack? For most it would be a death sentence to try to mount while actually in combat but think about how popular that craftable set in shimmerene would become!

ArenGesus

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

It is quite irritating, but I'm afraid if they allow us to mount while in combat it would lead to a whole new problem. Can you imagine the sshow if your in cyro fighting and your opponent mounts up to kite or outrun a ranged attack? For most it would be a death sentence to try to mount while actually in combat but think about how popular that craftable set in shimmerene would become!

Well, like I said, if they made it so that if you're attacked while in combat you're dismounted instantly, I don't think it would be that big of a deal. Imagine being in actual combat and then taking the time to mount - if you're actually facing an opponent, they will hit you. If not... then you're not really in combat, are you?

Alienoutlaw

not really viable open to too many exploits, instant cc removal, stun removal, to name 2 most obvious

ArenGesus

By the way, I think we can up the ante on this to interest the PVEers here too. Let's talk about dungeon doors. Like the ones in wayrest and blackheart haven. They are a serious annoyance because they often won't open for one or more of a group due to them being "in combat". Let's say you should be able to mount and open doors inside of dungeons while being "in combat". Is there a downside yet? I still can't think of one...

ArenGesus

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

not really viable open to too many exploits, instant cc removal, stun removal, to name 2 most obvious

Why would mounting give you any of that?

MattT1988

Wasn’t there a meeting with class reps recently where ZOS basically threw their hands up and said they have no friggin idea how to fix it? So don’t expect a fix anytime soon. Absolute amateur hour.

ArenGesus

MattT1988 wrote: »

Wasn’t there a meeting with class reps recently where ZOS basically threw their hands up and said they have no friggin idea how to fix it? So don’t expect a fix anytime soon. Absolute amateur hour.

Yeah, and they said more or less the same thing during a Bethesda Days live stream. That's why I made this suggestion - you can't fix it... so don't. Instead, make it so it's not a problem.

Alienoutlaw

ArenGesus wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

not really viable open to too many exploits, instant cc removal, stun removal, to name 2 most obvious

Why would mounting give you any of that?

not saying it would saying its open to that type of exploit is all.

as for the dungeon doors i totally agree.

unfortunately the game needs to have an on/off combat system to work

ArenGesus

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

ArenGesus wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

not really viable open to too many exploits, instant cc removal, stun removal, to name 2 most obvious

Why would mounting give you any of that?

not saying it would saying its open to that type of exploit is all.

as for the dungeon doors i totally agree.

unfortunately the game needs to have an on/off combat system to work

Well, I can agree that there could be issues with it. I opened the thread to see if anybody could suggest anything that reasonably could be an issue because I can't think of anything - and, while you're right in that some type of immunity could be an outcome, it really feels unlikely to me because only specific things grant immunity currently so I'm going to assume that those specific things have to be coded specifically. And with the next patch, one of those things will be roll dodge - so it's feasible that mounting won't immunize yourself, but that you could roll dodge and then mount, then race away. That could be a problem, but is it really a problem? Or just a thing that can't happen today?

I can agree that it would potentially be a combat mechanic change, but I'm not sure I agree that an on/off combat system is needed. I mean, nightblades can cloak and sneak away and sorcs can streak off into the sunset. It's not like escape is an impossible thing, as it stands currently. And it takes time to mount - time that can be used to prevent mounting with any light attack or ability. It might be a frustrating mechanic to groups chasing down a solo on occasion, but having put some thought into it, I just don't see a situation where it would really be a big deal. In fact, it could be something that adds a little extra something to combat that doesn't exist today.

By contrast, given the current on/off combat system we currently have - if you strike a nightblade before they disappear, never to return, you may not again be able to mount until you relog or they die by somebody else's hands - which is more silly than seeing them flee on horseback, in my opinion. Not saying I'm right, just that I don't mind seeing the backsides of most gankers who fail and race off anyway. It's frustrating whether they're streaking, sneaking or mounted. But at least with my suggestion, I get to also race away on my own mount - currently they get to go away and I get to jog along for the next hour or so.

DreadDaedroth

Cannot it be reverted to previous condition where it was less bugged?

ArenGesus

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

Cannot it be reverted to previous condition where it was less bugged?

Apparently not. I mean, it hasn't been and they've said it's a complicated thing to sort out, so I guess that means no.

ArenGesus

OK, so just thinking about this a little more, as @Alienoutlaw points out, you probably don't want people just using los to mount up and flee all the time. I can see that being really annoying. But it's also really annoying if you're not actually in combat and you get hit with the bug. For example, you and your group take a resource and the flag flips. You're about ready to race off when one of your group says, "a yellow just ran into the tower" and immediately races off to engage with him.

Well, damn. Now we have to kill that yellow if we ever want to get to our objective. Because we're all stuck in combat now. But that yellow just cloaked and can't be found. Thanks dude.

Anyway, maybe you can mount in combat if you yourself haven't been attacked within 20 seconds or so. I don't know - there has to be a way to make this less unbearable than it is today. They've already said that the "in combat" decisions points comprise a complicated set of conditions, which is concerning to me. I can think of some other complicated issues - like the group finder, which has basically been broken since forever. Or the EU server (RIP Europeans). I don't want this to be another group finder or EU server. There has to be one super annoying thing that they can make go away.

Haenk

Btw. this is an issue with world-PVE as well, I have it occuring after doing dolmens. Eventually it does happen, but it is unpredictable *when*. You can loot corpses, but can't ride or harvest resources, always after a fight. Aka: "kill monster, loot corpse, wait 5 seconds, pick flower". Very annoying. However at any random time (mostly doing dolmens, but might happen anytime), this in-combat-timer seems to be reset.
Did I say it's annoying?

Rygonix

The only way I can accept this is if mounting in combat immediately reduces your mount's Stamina to 1 and it will have stunted regen until you leave combat. That way a single hit from anything will kick you off, and you won't be able to Sprint with it either.

ArenGesus

Rygonix wrote: »

The only way I can accept this is if mounting in combat immediately reduces your mount's Stamina to 1 and it will have stunted regen until you leave combat. That way a single hit from anything will kick you off, and you won't be able to Sprint with it either.

Yeah, that was my exact thought. Or rather, mount stamina is irrelevant while in combat - if you get hit, you get dismounted.

Thunderclap

And let us use the transit shrine. It is absolutely stupid to stand at the base and not be able to port because of this bug.

Nermy

Thunderclap wrote: »

And let us use the transit shrine. It is absolutely stupid to stand at the base and not be able to port because of this bug.

This is slightly more annoying than not being able to mount. Only slightly mind...

I can't for the life of me see why they can't make so you are out of combat if you haven't hit anything, or been hit, for 30 secs or so? WTF is so complicated about that?

Haojin

we need more crown store mounts.

LordWenzel

Or even easier: you lose the combat status after a certain amount of time, if you don't hit or get hit by someone.

Mr_Walker

Rygonix wrote: »

The only way I can accept this is if mounting in combat immediately reduces your mount's Stamina to 1 and it will have stunted regen until you leave combat. That way a single hit from anything will kick you off, and you won't be able to Sprint with it either.

Sounds like you're gonna create a new set of problems with that.

visionality

Maybe not everybody is aware, but the current state of 'stuck in combat' is an intentional change ZOS made approx 6 months ago (you could look up the patch notes where they mention it) . Before that change, there was a milder form of stuck in combat, where healers and healing-up players might not get out of combat while mutagen/rapid mending was ticking. But the general rule was simple: If you neither did nor took damage for 7 seconds, you would be out of combat. Point. Your state of combat would also not influence your group members.

ZOS declared that the 7-seconds-cooldown to combat was opening options to exploit (e.g. you could get out of damage zones while in a keep fight, wait 7 seconds, change your skills and gear and reengage) and reprogrammed so that now you are in combat as long as either you or the enemy you engaged/that engaged you is alive. They also added some nasty programming that the in-combat-status of one single group member would instantly put the whole group in combat, with little or no relation to where they were located on the map. So now the proverbial snapping wolf can keep a 24-man-group in combat until they wipe.

I have never seen any exploit with the old combat definition, nor did I ever think it harmful to change gear or skills after a 7 second cooldown. But ZOS decided otherwise.

The problem is that ZOS' new definition of combat is now so all-encompassing that indeed there is no fix for 'stuck in combat' as long as ZOS sticks to the basic definition.

ArenGesus

visionality wrote: »

Maybe not everybody is aware, but the current state of 'stuck in combat' is an intentional change ZOS made approx 6 months ago (you could look up the patch notes where they mention it) . Before that change, there was a milder form of stuck in combat, where healers and healing-up players might not get out of combat while mutagen/rapid mending was ticking. But the general rule was simple: If you neither did nor took damage for 7 seconds, you would be out of combat. Point. Your state of combat would also not influence your group members.

ZOS declared that the 7-seconds-cooldown to combat was opening options to exploit (e.g. you could get out of damage zones while in a keep fight, wait 7 seconds, change your skills and gear and reengage) and reprogrammed so that now you are in combat as long as either you or the enemy you engaged/that engaged you is alive. They also added some nasty programming that the in-combat-status of one single group member would instantly put the whole group in combat, with little or no relation to where they were located on the map. So now the proverbial snapping wolf can keep a 24-man-group in combat until they wipe.

I have never seen any exploit with the old combat definition, nor did I ever think it harmful to change gear or skills after a 7 second cooldown. But ZOS decided otherwise.

The problem is that ZOS' new definition of combat is now so all-encompassing that indeed there is no fix for 'stuck in combat' as long as ZOS sticks to the basic definition.

I was not aware of any of that and can't recall when I started seeing the problem, so I didn't realize there was a known root or that the bug is essentially ZoS. But it totally makes sense that they would arbitrarily make things worse when there were zero complaints about the way it was. Honestly, now I'm just depressed. This game isn't worth the effort trying to help. I actually sat here an typed all this garbage and the answer all along was for them to just not be idiots. What the hell was I thinking. Sorry everybody, never mind. This kind of stupid can't be fixed.

Maybe a new thread instead: "Hey ZoS, what the hell do you care if somebody changes their skills or gear mid-battle anyway?"

MajBludd

I thought they fixed this already, or is this going to become a feature?

WolfingHour

I'm sure there is a multitude of Random PVP Reasons™.

To be fair, from a PvE point of view, it is much better than it was before.

ArenGesus

MajBludd wrote: »

I thought they fixed this already, or is this going to become a feature?

It is currently a feature, and one they say is very difficult to fix. I hadn't realized it was also done intentionally.

randomkeyhits

I use the thieves guild invis potions for this, they also works nicely in dungeons like Wayrest when stuck at a door.

chug, wait, lose aggro, continue.

mague

visionality wrote: »

Maybe a new thread instead: "Hey ZoS, what the hell do you care if somebody changes their skills or gear mid-battle anyway?"

Because it is a complete mess ? It is better as it is currently.

valeriiya

I ran from Ash to Roebeck last night, the weather is lovely this time of year!

Vapirko

Waited outside of Ash for, no joke, five minutes today. Went and did something else for a bit lol.