help me out with impen, the amount, and the source

Wing

for instance, impen armor is still solid (the set) granting ~2k impen.

I have seen people rock this and other traits (rather then stacking impen) however is it worth stacking impen even on that or do you start getting bad returns?

and finally if would you rather do something like full impen shackle rather then impen armor?


I am currently rather addicted to impen armor (the set, again) and run 4 traits impen on top (the remaining 3 are reinforced on the heavy chest and two well fitted that I will never swap)

is this overkill on impen and would I be better rocking shackle with the 4 impen traits?

this is CP and Non CP (I run like ~70 in the crit resist tree in cp as well)

Iskiab

I only play non-CP and found impregnable armour pretty bad, resistances are way better.

I think the value of impregnable armour is in CP cyrodiil. The cost of dodge rolling, blocking, etc... can be reduced with CPs making those traits better. That plus you can buff your crit damage really high with CPs so crit resists becomes more valuable. Impregnable armour could be good if you’re trying a CP styled build in non-CP (block caster, dodge roller, etc...).

I think the people not having enough crit resists are those who complain Snipe and NB ganking with the auto crit (plus low resistances). I think through CPs you can get 25% extra crit damage or so? Add NB, minor force and khajit and your crits will be at 195% of normal damage, I don’t know what crit resist that equates to but I’d aim for at least 60% reduction or you’ll keep being bursted down.

I’ve wanted to know the answer to this question myself, but last time I asked no on answered. I’m not sure what the answer is exactly, but I know it’s important.

Waffennacht

Guys check @paulsimonps thread for all mitigation information needs...

One sec and I'll bring you the link and the desired info

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-murkmire#latest

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

Wing

I had seen that a while back Waffen but thanks for pointing it out again.

it kind of confirms what I had though, in that stacking crit resist is just REALLY good, especially as its once again a separate damage mitigation separate from resistances, protection, etc. and has no diminishing returns.

whelp, I HAD considered not running the impen set but now, ima slot even MORE impen in traits.

the addiction continues.

SippingPotions

Fortified brass in generally better than impregnable in non CP because most people don’t have very high crit values/damage without champion points, but their spell and weapon damage remains roughly the same. For those reasons you’re going to be better off with the extra spell and physical resists from fort brass than the crit resist from impreg in BG’s/Sotha.

I think most people shoot for 2500-3000 crit resist in CP pvp when they want to be able to stay alive in a fight and still put out damage.

If you want to learn more about how crit resistance and crit damage modifiers work, a quick google search will lead you to a couple informative posts that explain the math behind it all. I’m not sure if I’m allowed to link outside site but if it is alright I can post a link that explains it pretty well.

Iskiab

Waffennacht wrote: »

Guys check @paulsimonps thread for all mitigation information needs...

One sec and I'll bring you the link and the desired info

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-murkmire#latest

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

This thread looks like it hasn’t been updated for the vulnerability changes. Or was it a bug that was stealth patched?

The way I understood vulnerabilities is they’re more powerful then protections. Extra damage from vulnerabilities can’t be mitigated. It was discovered a bit after murkmire release.

Something like:

So with a 10k hit, 50% mitigation and 8% vulnerability it’s:

10k damage ... reduced to 5k with mitigation.. becomes 5800 with the vulnerability. So in essence the extra damage from the vulnerability can’t be mitigated.

Did I misunderstand this bug/change?

paulsimonps

Iskiab wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Guys check @paulsimonps thread for all mitigation information needs...

One sec and I'll bring you the link and the desired info

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-murkmire#latest

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

This thread looks like it hasn’t been updated for the vulnerability changes. Or was it a bug that was stealth patched?

The way I understood vulnerabilities is they’re more powerful then protections. Extra damage from vulnerabilities can’t be mitigated. It was discovered a bit after murkmire release.

Something like:

So with a 10k hit, 50% mitigation and 8% vulnerability it’s:

10k damage ... reduced to 5k with mitigation.. becomes 5800 with the vulnerability. So in essence the extra damage from the vulnerability can’t be mitigated.

Did I misunderstand this bug/change?

actually I am currently retesting almost everything in that thread on the PTS to update it and currently I have found that Minor Vulnerability can be 100% canceled by Minor Protection. Like they nullify each other. So instead of it being "base dmgx(1-(8)/100)x(1+(8)/100)=0.9936=99.36%" which would be a 0.64% mitigation, it cancels it out and its more "base dmgx(1-(8-8)/100)".

Gonna test out the other sources of vulnerabilities and weaknesses before updating properly as well but I have seen nothing so far that would indicate that vulnerabilities can't be mitigated. Actually so far what I have found, but don't quote me on it cause I'm not done testing, is that vulnerability applies on the same level as the sources that apply before damage shield. making it indeed mitigatable. But again, still testing.

Wing

paulsimonps wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Guys check @paulsimonps thread for all mitigation information needs...

One sec and I'll bring you the link and the desired info

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-murkmire#latest

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

This thread looks like it hasn’t been updated for the vulnerability changes. Or was it a bug that was stealth patched?

The way I understood vulnerabilities is they’re more powerful then protections. Extra damage from vulnerabilities can’t be mitigated. It was discovered a bit after murkmire release.

Something like:

So with a 10k hit, 50% mitigation and 8% vulnerability it’s:

10k damage ... reduced to 5k with mitigation.. becomes 5800 with the vulnerability. So in essence the extra damage from the vulnerability can’t be mitigated.

Did I misunderstand this bug/change?

actually I am currently retesting almost everything in that thread on the PTS to update it and currently I have found that Minor Vulnerability can be 100% canceled by Minor Protection. Like they nullify each other. So instead of it being "base dmgx(1-(8)/100)x(1+(8)/100)=0.9936=99.36%" which would be a 0.64% mitigation, it cancels it out and its more "base dmgx(1-(8-8)/100)".

Gonna test out the other sources of vulnerabilities and weaknesses before updating properly as well but I have seen nothing so far that would indicate that vulnerabilities can't be mitigated. Actually so far what I have found, but don't quote me on it cause I'm not done testing, is that vulnerability applies on the same level as the sources that apply before damage shield. making it indeed mitigatable. But again, still testing.

that's really interesting, because obviously things like defile are super strong because they don't cancel out things like mending but apply after the fact and reduce from the new total sum.

would be nice if ZOS changed the system to be more flat effects, bonuses, and counters.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@paulsimonps thank you for doing so much work figuring out all that stuff. It is very informative and help, you are doing great work.

Iskiab

paulsimonps wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Guys check @paulsimonps thread for all mitigation information needs...

One sec and I'll bring you the link and the desired info

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-murkmire#latest

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

This thread looks like it hasn’t been updated for the vulnerability changes. Or was it a bug that was stealth patched?

The way I understood vulnerabilities is they’re more powerful then protections. Extra damage from vulnerabilities can’t be mitigated. It was discovered a bit after murkmire release.

Something like:

So with a 10k hit, 50% mitigation and 8% vulnerability it’s:

10k damage ... reduced to 5k with mitigation.. becomes 5800 with the vulnerability. So in essence the extra damage from the vulnerability can’t be mitigated.

Did I misunderstand this bug/change?

actually I am currently retesting almost everything in that thread on the PTS to update it and currently I have found that Minor Vulnerability can be 100% canceled by Minor Protection. Like they nullify each other. So instead of it being "base dmgx(1-(8)/100)x(1+(8)/100)=0.9936=99.36%" which would be a 0.64% mitigation, it cancels it out and its more "base dmgx(1-(8-8)/100)".

Gonna test out the other sources of vulnerabilities and weaknesses before updating properly as well but I have seen nothing so far that would indicate that vulnerabilities can't be mitigated. Actually so far what I have found, but don't quote me on it cause I'm not done testing, is that vulnerability applies on the same level as the sources that apply before damage shield. making it indeed mitigatable. But again, still testing.

Nice! Thanks for the hard work! Definitely something I’m too lazy to test myself. I basicly take your work as fact.

I have a hunch ESO stealth changes things without a patch note. Things I’ve tested and sworn I understood ended up being wrong.

paulsimonps

Iskiab wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Guys check @paulsimonps thread for all mitigation information needs...

One sec and I'll bring you the link and the desired info

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-murkmire#latest

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

This thread looks like it hasn’t been updated for the vulnerability changes. Or was it a bug that was stealth patched?

The way I understood vulnerabilities is they’re more powerful then protections. Extra damage from vulnerabilities can’t be mitigated. It was discovered a bit after murkmire release.

Something like:

So with a 10k hit, 50% mitigation and 8% vulnerability it’s:

10k damage ... reduced to 5k with mitigation.. becomes 5800 with the vulnerability. So in essence the extra damage from the vulnerability can’t be mitigated.

Did I misunderstand this bug/change?

actually I am currently retesting almost everything in that thread on the PTS to update it and currently I have found that Minor Vulnerability can be 100% canceled by Minor Protection. Like they nullify each other. So instead of it being "base dmgx(1-(8)/100)x(1+(8)/100)=0.9936=99.36%" which would be a 0.64% mitigation, it cancels it out and its more "base dmgx(1-(8-8)/100)".

Gonna test out the other sources of vulnerabilities and weaknesses before updating properly as well but I have seen nothing so far that would indicate that vulnerabilities can't be mitigated. Actually so far what I have found, but don't quote me on it cause I'm not done testing, is that vulnerability applies on the same level as the sources that apply before damage shield. making it indeed mitigatable. But again, still testing.

Nice! Thanks for the hard work! Definitely something I’m too lazy to test myself. I basicly take your work as fact.

I have a hunch ESO stealth changes things without a patch note. Things I’ve tested and sworn I understood ended up being wrong.

Another thing then that I have yet to put in the thread but I will after I am done researching changes and confirming data is that anything that increases blocking mitigation stack in an additive way. So Ironskin, Absorb Magicka, Sword and Board Passive, Footmans. They all stack additive. Same for anything else like that.Which is a buff from what it was like previously. This was ninja changed sometimes in 2018.

Minno

paulsimonps wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Guys check @paulsimonps thread for all mitigation information needs...

One sec and I'll bring you the link and the desired info

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-murkmire#latest

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

This thread looks like it hasn’t been updated for the vulnerability changes. Or was it a bug that was stealth patched?

The way I understood vulnerabilities is they’re more powerful then protections. Extra damage from vulnerabilities can’t be mitigated. It was discovered a bit after murkmire release.

Something like:

So with a 10k hit, 50% mitigation and 8% vulnerability it’s:

10k damage ... reduced to 5k with mitigation.. becomes 5800 with the vulnerability. So in essence the extra damage from the vulnerability can’t be mitigated.

Did I misunderstand this bug/change?

actually I am currently retesting almost everything in that thread on the PTS to update it and currently I have found that Minor Vulnerability can be 100% canceled by Minor Protection. Like they nullify each other. So instead of it being "base dmgx(1-(8)/100)x(1+(8)/100)=0.9936=99.36%" which would be a 0.64% mitigation, it cancels it out and its more "base dmgx(1-(8-8)/100)".

Gonna test out the other sources of vulnerabilities and weaknesses before updating properly as well but I have seen nothing so far that would indicate that vulnerabilities can't be mitigated. Actually so far what I have found, but don't quote me on it cause I'm not done testing, is that vulnerability applies on the same level as the sources that apply before damage shield. making it indeed mitigatable. But again, still testing.

Nice! Thanks for the hard work! Definitely something I’m too lazy to test myself. I basicly take your work as fact.

I have a hunch ESO stealth changes things without a patch note. Things I’ve tested and sworn I understood ended up being wrong.

Another thing then that I have yet to put in the thread but I will after I am done researching changes and confirming data is that anything that increases blocking mitigation stack in an additive way. So Ironskin, Absorb Magicka, Sword and Board Passive, Footmans. They all stack additive. Same for anything else like that.Which is a buff from what it was like previously. This was ninja changed sometimes in 2018.

That would confirm part of my assumption that in PvP, block is overperforming. But it's part 1 of three steps that are OP in PvP, the others being battlespirit and major protection/resist cap.

Waffennacht

@paulsimonps that explains a lot!!

I told ya guys he's THE man!!

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

paulsimonps wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Guys check @paulsimonps thread for all mitigation information needs...

One sec and I'll bring you the link and the desired info

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-murkmire#latest

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

This thread looks like it hasn’t been updated for the vulnerability changes. Or was it a bug that was stealth patched?

The way I understood vulnerabilities is they’re more powerful then protections. Extra damage from vulnerabilities can’t be mitigated. It was discovered a bit after murkmire release.

Something like:

So with a 10k hit, 50% mitigation and 8% vulnerability it’s:

10k damage ... reduced to 5k with mitigation.. becomes 5800 with the vulnerability. So in essence the extra damage from the vulnerability can’t be mitigated.

Did I misunderstand this bug/change?

actually I am currently retesting almost everything in that thread on the PTS to update it and currently I have found that Minor Vulnerability can be 100% canceled by Minor Protection. Like they nullify each other. So instead of it being "base dmgx(1-(8)/100)x(1+(8)/100)=0.9936=99.36%" which would be a 0.64% mitigation, it cancels it out and its more "base dmgx(1-(8-8)/100)".

Gonna test out the other sources of vulnerabilities and weaknesses before updating properly as well but I have seen nothing so far that would indicate that vulnerabilities can't be mitigated. Actually so far what I have found, but don't quote me on it cause I'm not done testing, is that vulnerability applies on the same level as the sources that apply before damage shield. making it indeed mitigatable. But again, still testing.

Nice! Thanks for the hard work! Definitely something I’m too lazy to test myself. I basicly take your work as fact.

I have a hunch ESO stealth changes things without a patch note. Things I’ve tested and sworn I understood ended up being wrong.

Another thing then that I have yet to put in the thread but I will after I am done researching changes and confirming data is that anything that increases blocking mitigation stack in an additive way. So Ironskin, Absorb Magicka, Sword and Board Passive, Footmans. They all stack additive. Same for anything else like that.Which is a buff from what it was like previously. This was ninja changed sometimes in 2018.

don't forget how this change makes Bound Armor and its morphs the best single damage mitigation skill in the game.

Waffennacht

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Guys check @paulsimonps thread for all mitigation information needs...

One sec and I'll bring you the link and the desired info

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-murkmire#latest

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

This thread looks like it hasn’t been updated for the vulnerability changes. Or was it a bug that was stealth patched?

The way I understood vulnerabilities is they’re more powerful then protections. Extra damage from vulnerabilities can’t be mitigated. It was discovered a bit after murkmire release.

Something like:

So with a 10k hit, 50% mitigation and 8% vulnerability it’s:

10k damage ... reduced to 5k with mitigation.. becomes 5800 with the vulnerability. So in essence the extra damage from the vulnerability can’t be mitigated.

Did I misunderstand this bug/change?

actually I am currently retesting almost everything in that thread on the PTS to update it and currently I have found that Minor Vulnerability can be 100% canceled by Minor Protection. Like they nullify each other. So instead of it being "base dmgx(1-(8)/100)x(1+(8)/100)=0.9936=99.36%" which would be a 0.64% mitigation, it cancels it out and its more "base dmgx(1-(8-8)/100)".

Gonna test out the other sources of vulnerabilities and weaknesses before updating properly as well but I have seen nothing so far that would indicate that vulnerabilities can't be mitigated. Actually so far what I have found, but don't quote me on it cause I'm not done testing, is that vulnerability applies on the same level as the sources that apply before damage shield. making it indeed mitigatable. But again, still testing.

Nice! Thanks for the hard work! Definitely something I’m too lazy to test myself. I basicly take your work as fact.

I have a hunch ESO stealth changes things without a patch note. Things I’ve tested and sworn I understood ended up being wrong.

Another thing then that I have yet to put in the thread but I will after I am done researching changes and confirming data is that anything that increases blocking mitigation stack in an additive way. So Ironskin, Absorb Magicka, Sword and Board Passive, Footmans. They all stack additive. Same for anything else like that.Which is a buff from what it was like previously. This was ninja changed sometimes in 2018.

don't forget how this change makes Bound Armor and its morphs the best single damage mitigation skill in the game.

Very very interesting

Wing

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Guys check @paulsimonps thread for all mitigation information needs...

One sec and I'll bring you the link and the desired info

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-murkmire#latest

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

This thread looks like it hasn’t been updated for the vulnerability changes. Or was it a bug that was stealth patched?

The way I understood vulnerabilities is they’re more powerful then protections. Extra damage from vulnerabilities can’t be mitigated. It was discovered a bit after murkmire release.

Something like:

So with a 10k hit, 50% mitigation and 8% vulnerability it’s:

10k damage ... reduced to 5k with mitigation.. becomes 5800 with the vulnerability. So in essence the extra damage from the vulnerability can’t be mitigated.

Did I misunderstand this bug/change?

actually I am currently retesting almost everything in that thread on the PTS to update it and currently I have found that Minor Vulnerability can be 100% canceled by Minor Protection. Like they nullify each other. So instead of it being "base dmgx(1-(8)/100)x(1+(8)/100)=0.9936=99.36%" which would be a 0.64% mitigation, it cancels it out and its more "base dmgx(1-(8-8)/100)".

Gonna test out the other sources of vulnerabilities and weaknesses before updating properly as well but I have seen nothing so far that would indicate that vulnerabilities can't be mitigated. Actually so far what I have found, but don't quote me on it cause I'm not done testing, is that vulnerability applies on the same level as the sources that apply before damage shield. making it indeed mitigatable. But again, still testing.

Nice! Thanks for the hard work! Definitely something I’m too lazy to test myself. I basicly take your work as fact.

I have a hunch ESO stealth changes things without a patch note. Things I’ve tested and sworn I understood ended up being wrong.

Another thing then that I have yet to put in the thread but I will after I am done researching changes and confirming data is that anything that increases blocking mitigation stack in an additive way. So Ironskin, Absorb Magicka, Sword and Board Passive, Footmans. They all stack additive. Same for anything else like that.Which is a buff from what it was like previously. This was ninja changed sometimes in 2018.

don't forget how this change makes Bound Armor and its morphs the best single damage mitigation skill in the game.

wait doesn't that mean sorcs blocking should drop damage to 0 with minimal investment? and DK's get close with a lot of stacking, that should be easy enough to test.

paulsimonps

Wing wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Guys check @paulsimonps thread for all mitigation information needs...

One sec and I'll bring you the link and the desired info

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-murkmire#latest

68 impen = 1% crit damage mitigation

This thread looks like it hasn’t been updated for the vulnerability changes. Or was it a bug that was stealth patched?

The way I understood vulnerabilities is they’re more powerful then protections. Extra damage from vulnerabilities can’t be mitigated. It was discovered a bit after murkmire release.

Something like:

So with a 10k hit, 50% mitigation and 8% vulnerability it’s:

10k damage ... reduced to 5k with mitigation.. becomes 5800 with the vulnerability. So in essence the extra damage from the vulnerability can’t be mitigated.

Did I misunderstand this bug/change?

actually I am currently retesting almost everything in that thread on the PTS to update it and currently I have found that Minor Vulnerability can be 100% canceled by Minor Protection. Like they nullify each other. So instead of it being "base dmgx(1-(8)/100)x(1+(8)/100)=0.9936=99.36%" which would be a 0.64% mitigation, it cancels it out and its more "base dmgx(1-(8-8)/100)".

Gonna test out the other sources of vulnerabilities and weaknesses before updating properly as well but I have seen nothing so far that would indicate that vulnerabilities can't be mitigated. Actually so far what I have found, but don't quote me on it cause I'm not done testing, is that vulnerability applies on the same level as the sources that apply before damage shield. making it indeed mitigatable. But again, still testing.

Nice! Thanks for the hard work! Definitely something I’m too lazy to test myself. I basicly take your work as fact.

I have a hunch ESO stealth changes things without a patch note. Things I’ve tested and sworn I understood ended up being wrong.

Another thing then that I have yet to put in the thread but I will after I am done researching changes and confirming data is that anything that increases blocking mitigation stack in an additive way. So Ironskin, Absorb Magicka, Sword and Board Passive, Footmans. They all stack additive. Same for anything else like that.Which is a buff from what it was like previously. This was ninja changed sometimes in 2018.

don't forget how this change makes Bound Armor and its morphs the best single damage mitigation skill in the game.

wait doesn't that mean sorcs blocking should drop damage to 0 with minimal investment? and DK's get close with a lot of stacking, that should be easy enough to test.

No, you still can't drop dmg to 0 unless you use damage shields and stack crap ton of pre shield mitigation, but then its still technically not 0 dmg, just applied to dmg shield and not your health, which at this point is very close to temporary health.

But yea, Tank Sorcs can get really high mitigation.

Also if anyone wants to help me test any of this I'm gonna do some testing tomorrow. You can find me on the class reps discord channel. I will be on the PTS doing stuff, but its easier to do it with 2-3 people, and to ball ideas with people. Need to finish the research before I can update my thread proper.