MagSorc PVP Builds?

Knowledge

Most of the MagSorc PVP builds I see run Master Staff. Is that a necessity now? Further, I keep hearing about these famed pet builds but I've yet to see any builds. Would someone mind?

ccmedaddy

It's not a necessity but it's nice to have since it saves you a bar space. You can still do well with Force Pulse+Rune Cage though.

Most pet builds nowadays run Necropotence paired with either Lich or Armor Master on the backbar. Double slot the Matriarch for the heals, single target pressure and the passives. Some people also run the scamp, but don't be one of those people.

godchucknzilla

You can use streak for your CC also since you will have it on bar. Meteor to streak for instance. Master staff can get deflected back at you from DK, Spell wall, and Sword and Shield skill. Still master inferno is probably the top tier sorc build with armor master next patch since DK reflect is gone.

oxygen_thief

I use silver leash for cc. its pretty dangerous but leash is unreflectable and less telegrapged

Betty_Booms

I dont run it and I do fine. Reach is highly ineffective vs dks and wardens. Streak is a great cc but requires close range. Rune cage is all but garbage.

I run btb/ necro and either bloodspawn or slimecraw depending how i feel.

I will run reach unless there are a few wardens and/or dks. I then change to force pulse for the spammable.

Armor master is not so great for no cp.

Lord-Otto

Master staff has been staple since the Frag nerf in CwC. With the brief exception of Summerset.
It turns Reach into an acceptable spammable, saving you that precious, precious skill slot. Magsorcs are extremely starved for slots.
Reach itself offers a CC while adding damage. It's the bandaid substitute for old Frags. The Master staff adds so much damage to this one skill that no other set bonus would give you more bang in your total burst. That's why people don't just run Reach with a Willpower staff.

Rune Cage is completely useless these days. Highly telegraphed and dodgable. Also no damage to help burst. The real nail in the coffin is the increased delay, though. The old, awesome Meteor -> Rune Cage combo to force an unblocked Meteor hit doesn't work anymore. I tested it and confirmed it with other knowledgable sorc players.

Pet build is simple, it is the very same build you've been using all the time. Just sacrifice the nerfed Healing Ward and Fury for the Twilight Matriarch.
That solves the burst heal issue that came with Healing Ward nerf.
And since they buffed pets to get all your damage boni, the Twilight's zap hits almost as hard as an execute. And it's more reliable than the twice-dodgable Fury! That execute will get re-examined next patch, however.
Lastly, the pet offers high pressure and protection via LoS shenanigans, exactly what sorcs needed. Plus the class passives. It can die if there are too many opponents, leaving you very vulnerable. But with the increased resistances sorcs run these days, it takes quite a beating. Don't blame the sorc players for abusing that, we wanted a mobile glass cannon. Not our fault the community couldn't deal with high-powered but telegraphed sorc combos! You reap what you sow...

Gear is largely unchanged, too. Just gotta fit Necropotence in there. Most drop the hybrid sustain sets like Shacklebreaker and get the stamina from trifood, triglyphs and Altmer/Dunmer racials. Consider protective jewelry, but it's not mandatory. Sharpened or Infused main hand, shock enchant. Infused is more damage overall, but only if light attacks actually hit. Sharpened is a safer bet with slightly lower payoff. Monster set to your liking, backbar set Lich for Altmer/Dunmer, Spell Strategist for Breton.

Pet builds will get a bit more vulnerable next patch, but it looks like they'll remain strong and definitely meta for magsorcs. So don't worry golding out gear, it'll be worth it unless we see drastic changes during the last PTS weeks.

pzschrek

Since they killed fury and ward everyone went pet, because thank god we aren't magblades and still have options.

I run Bright Throat and Necro and tristat everything. Chudan for the helm, because it saves a bar slot and even with it i need 3 more bar slots than I have to get what other classes get. You can use streak as your stun actually once you get used to it. With some practice you can do a quick spin to almost quarantee a frag lands, dont know about meteor though, i use atro.

Proc BTB with spring loaded infusion for the extra stam. With 20 points in health you can get 30k health, 48k mag, 16+k stam, almost 2k regen and about 2.4k spell damage with glyph, you have almost a 14k ward and hit like a truck with matriarch heals that crit for like 12k with no points in healing stuff.

There's a reason why people hate petsorcs. And that pet gives you options, but its very vulnerable outnumbered and wil lbe even worse next patch. But the class is barely viable without em now, regrettably.

Your defense is still shields, and your pet scales off max mag and doesn't give a *** about spell damage, thats why I think max mag is still the way to go on sorcs.

I'll be giving master destro another look though, i literally switched to pulse bk of DKs. the only thing i have they can reflect is frags and if youre good you can often figure out a way to sneak one in under the wings from time to time.

katorga

pzschrek wrote: »

There's a reason why people hate petsorcs. And that pet gives you options, but its very vulnerable outnumbered and wil lbe even worse next patch. But the class is barely viable without em now, regrettably..

That is my take. One or two more nerfs and the class is functionally finished for pvp. Personally I think removing Major protection from the resto ultimate might be that nerf; we'll see how it plays out.

I'm not sure I would invest any time leveling a sorc if I were starting today.

Minalan

katorga wrote: »

pzschrek wrote: »

There's a reason why people hate petsorcs. And that pet gives you options, but its very vulnerable outnumbered and wil lbe even worse next patch. But the class is barely viable without em now, regrettably..

That is my take. One or two more nerfs and the class is functionally finished for pvp. Personally I think removing Major protection from the resto ultimate might be that nerf; we'll see how it plays out.

I'm not sure I would invest any time leveling a sorc if I were starting today.

Necromancers have an ultimate that sticks major vulnerability on you. We couldn't have people countering that with a resto ult...

Master fire staves have one big downside in that dunmer are immune to the dot component. And there are a LOT of dunmer players out there.

Waffennacht

Just an fyi about pets. They attack every 2 seconds rather than 1. Which is why it's going to be a higher than expected dmg number

Waffennacht

Minalan wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

pzschrek wrote: »

There's a reason why people hate petsorcs. And that pet gives you options, but its very vulnerable outnumbered and wil lbe even worse next patch. But the class is barely viable without em now, regrettably..

That is my take. One or two more nerfs and the class is functionally finished for pvp. Personally I think removing Major protection from the resto ultimate might be that nerf; we'll see how it plays out.

I'm not sure I would invest any time leveling a sorc if I were starting today.

Necromancers have an ultimate that sticks major vulnerability on you. We couldn't have people countering that with a resto ult...

Master fire staves have one big downside in that dunmer are immune to the dot component. And there are a LOT of dunmer players out there.

Unless it was changed but when I asked about this to @paulsimonps he said the passive only stops the burning passive dot from fire damage and does not include things like the "burning" dot of reach nor the "burning" dot of bsw

pzschrek

Minalan wrote: »

Master fire staves have one big downside in that dunmer are immune to the dot component. And there are a LOT of dunmer players out there.

Lightning hits less hard but the delta isnt as bad on a sorc due to passives, and the stun lands. It's hard to miss the big ring coming toward you in time to block but people miss the master lighting stun all the time. I use lightning when I run a master for that reason anyway.

ccmedaddy

Waffennacht wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

pzschrek wrote: »

There's a reason why people hate petsorcs. And that pet gives you options, but its very vulnerable outnumbered and wil lbe even worse next patch. But the class is barely viable without em now, regrettably..

That is my take. One or two more nerfs and the class is functionally finished for pvp. Personally I think removing Major protection from the resto ultimate might be that nerf; we'll see how it plays out.

I'm not sure I would invest any time leveling a sorc if I were starting today.

Necromancers have an ultimate that sticks major vulnerability on you. We couldn't have people countering that with a resto ult...

Master fire staves have one big downside in that dunmer are immune to the dot component. And there are a LOT of dunmer players out there.

Unless it was changed but when I asked about this to @paulsimonps he said the passive only stops the burning passive dot from fire damage and does not include things like the "burning" dot of reach nor the "burning" dot of bsw

This is how I understand it too. Pretty sure Dunmers are not immune to the DoT component of flame reach.

Minalan

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

pzschrek wrote: »

There's a reason why people hate petsorcs. And that pet gives you options, but its very vulnerable outnumbered and wil lbe even worse next patch. But the class is barely viable without em now, regrettably..

That is my take. One or two more nerfs and the class is functionally finished for pvp. Personally I think removing Major protection from the resto ultimate might be that nerf; we'll see how it plays out.

I'm not sure I would invest any time leveling a sorc if I were starting today.

Necromancers have an ultimate that sticks major vulnerability on you. We couldn't have people countering that with a resto ult...

Master fire staves have one big downside in that dunmer are immune to the dot component. And there are a LOT of dunmer players out there.

Unless it was changed but when I asked about this to @paulsimonps he said the passive only stops the burning passive dot from fire damage and does not include things like the "burning" dot of reach nor the "burning" dot of bsw

This is how I understand it too. Pretty sure Dunmers are not immune to the DoT component of flame reach.

Got it, so they're immune to the burning status effect (which is still important). But not the master staff DOT bonus damage.

Lightning does less damage overall. You miss out on fire heavy attack burst, and take an 8 percent hit to curse and frags. But... it's almost worth it for a full CC. Fire reach is a knock-back, and can be broken mid air like nothing. Lightning reach actually knocks your opponent down completely prone.

UntilValhalla13

How well would a perfect vas inferno fare running force pulse instead of master staff/reach?

Iskiab

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

How well would a perfect vas inferno fare running force pulse instead of master staff/reach?

I’ve tried it as a magblade to get around reflections. It’s great for taking out Wardens and DKs who’re low health and spam reflections thinking it makes them immune to ranged attacks.

I’m not sure about how it fits with sorcs. Combines well with iceheart.

gepe87

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

How well would a perfect vas inferno fare running force pulse instead of master staff/reach?

You still need a CC and rune isnt a good option

darkblue5

No CP definitely Necro/BTB and Chudan or Pirate/Chudan if you're willing to run Boundless Storm.
Master's/Lich and Necro feels pretty nice in CP with the same Chudan/Pirate or Chudan set up.

Next patch petless with Crafty Alfiq instead of necropotence would sound nice but the passives you'd give up and the free DOT is just painful. I will say Destro/Resto petless seems better for small group support and pets won't be benefiting from uncut heals and shields next patch so will be vastly more vunerable.

Knowledge

darkblue5 wrote: »

No CP definitely Necro/BTB and Chudan or Pirate/Chudan if you're willing to run Boundless Storm.
Master's/Lich and Necro feels pretty nice in CP with the same Chudan/Pirate or Chudan set up.

Next patch petless with Crafty Alfiq instead of necropotence would sound nice but the passives you'd give up and the free DOT is just painful. I will say Destro/Resto petless seems better for small group support and pets won't be benefiting from uncut heals and shields next patch so will be vastly more vunerable.

It seems like sorcs are wedged into running one type of build - for viability. It seems like without a Master's staff it's just a no-go or will be lacking in CC.

darkblue5

Knowledge wrote: »

darkblue5 wrote: »

No CP definitely Necro/BTB and Chudan or Pirate/Chudan if you're willing to run Boundless Storm.
Master's/Lich and Necro feels pretty nice in CP with the same Chudan/Pirate or Chudan set up.

Next patch petless with Crafty Alfiq instead of necropotence would sound nice but the passives you'd give up and the free DOT is just painful. I will say Destro/Resto petless seems better for small group support and pets won't be benefiting from uncut heals and shields next patch so will be vastly more vunerable.

It seems like sorcs are wedged into running one type of build - for viability. It seems like without a Master's staff it's just a no-go or will be lacking in CC.

If the build wasn't so high performing it'd be easier to hate the cookie-cutter nature. At some point meta is meta. You can run protective rings and different armor sets as well, and run without pets though missing the passives is the part I couldn't abide.

I found lacking in CC in no CP open world or battlegrounds was often made up by the sheer sustained pressure and that a
Streak or an Atronach stun could also do the job. Scamp can provide some interesting stuns as well but I don't like playing Zoo nor kiting in the pets. Clench with Max Mag sets still hits kinda hard but not much different than Master Clench with Lich offering better sustain.

HowlKimchi

Yeah sorcs are required to run Master's Staff to do very well right now. That's why I rarely play the class since the frags nerf. It's boring theorycrafting-wise. (and also, I dont have a master's inferno staff xD)

pzschrek

I understand completely where the “sorc needs a master destro” comes from, but I don’t fully agree.

If you run atronach ult and streak you can learn to play it so that those are the only stuns you need. I found I had more success than master destro on it bc you can actually kill wardens and dks.

Waffennacht

pzschrek wrote: »

I understand completely where the “sorc needs a master destro” comes from, but I don’t fully agree.

If you run atronach ult and streak you can learn to play it so that those are the only stuns you need. I found I had more success than master destro on it bc you can actually kill wardens and dks.

The biggest pain for console using streak is the slow camera speed, takes longer to turn the camera around than to CC break and respond

Aurielle

You could also forego the annoying zoo builds and be just as effective without relying on cheese. Try Curse Eater, Axiom, and Skoria. Make sure you use Power Surge and Dark Conversion. The direct heals from critical hits while Surge is up will trigger Curse Eater’s five piece bonus. You can also have more direct control over the bonus with Dark Conversion (also a direct heal) when you’re on the defensive. Very helpful against DKs and other dot builds. Axiom will make Curse, Wrath/Fury, and Frags hit extremely hard.

Minalan

HaruKamui wrote: »

Yeah sorcs are required to run Master's Staff to do very well right now. That's why I rarely play the class since the frags nerf. It's boring theorycrafting-wise. (and also, I dont have a master's inferno staff xD)

You can still do really well with other front bar sets other than master staff.

Spell strat for example, gives about 1000 spell damage on a single target.

Perfected VAS is good because every other force pulse you're sticking maim and vulnerability on your target.

Next patch though, with reflect gone it's going to be a different story.

HowlKimchi

Minalan wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Yeah sorcs are required to run Master's Staff to do very well right now. That's why I rarely play the class since the frags nerf. It's boring theorycrafting-wise. (and also, I dont have a master's inferno staff xD)

You can still do really well with other front bar sets other than master staff.

Spell strat for example, gives about 1000 spell damage on a single target.

Perfected VAS is good because every other force pulse you're sticking maim and vulnerability on your target.

Next patch though, with reflect gone it's going to be a different story.

Yeah, it can definitely be done. It's actually pretty easy to make a magsorc playable on a functional level, but then without the Master's Staff, you run into bar space problems unless you use streak as the main cc. Having a spammable to proc frags that's also a CC is just too good imo to the point that I can't justify running anything else when I'm trying to build a competitive magsorc build.

rumple9

I still run skoria monster, julianos and netch with dual lightning staves (one VMA) and it's fine in PvP for ball groups

Waffennacht

So I decided to go mag sorc the last few days to see how it feels currently.

I'm running:
Zaan
Armor master
Impreg

x3 swift; steed mundus

This is specifically for BGs.

It's really enjoyable, though being chased by a full team for 3 minutes straight can be hella stressful

godchucknzilla

If i had another master inferno I'd use it but I gave it to my sorc main friend on the vdsa run. So until i get another one I'm running this for BG's.

Rattlecage nirnhoned beserker glyph inferno staff with sword an board backbar and with arcane rattlecage jewelry. Necropotence body armor, and engine guardian shoulders and helm, medium and heavy to get undaunted mettle.

Ults are ice comet and spell wall.
Skills are bird, harness, harden, frag, curse fury, crushing shock, streak, lightning form.

Potion: spell crit, restore magicka, immovable.

Beardimus

It's about personal choice. There are certain things you need in your build, decide how you want to heal. (Pet vs Restro) decide how you want to make up your resistances (Chud/Boundless/protective) and that choice decides your bar space. It's a personal thing you need the space for utility etc or run the MH.
Then its working out your sustain level needed vs damage sets.

I guess last decision is CP/noCP as impreg/trans might be an option for the crit resist, likewise if you want to add secondary mitigation via triats (roll etc)

Personally i think one has to find what they need from the options and whittle it down.

DKMaestro

Betty_Booms wrote: »

I dont run it and I do fine. Reach is highly ineffective vs dks and wardens. Streak is a great cc but requires close range. Rune cage is all but garbage.

I run btb/ necro and either bloodspawn or slimecraw depending how i feel.

I will run reach unless there are a few wardens and/or dks. I then change to force pulse for the spammable.

Armor master is not so great for no cp.

Agree on AM for no-cp

What do you use for a stun, if you don't use reach or cage? I find streak lackluster to be honest. Good for escaping, but by the time you have streaked through and turn around to combo, most players are able to apply pressure again.