Remove the Templar skill Rushed Ceremony from the game.

usmcjdking · April 2019

This skill is overperforming so badly that it's skewing the non-justification for proper templar buffs and skill reworks it so desperately needs. Remove it so you can get an accurate sight picture are how utterly miserable the templar class is to play, please. Then put it back in after you realize the dire straights this class is in. No other class in the game is carried so badly by a single defensive skill.

To make an analogy. Get a very large rucksack, military size. Walk around your neighborhood picking up all the dog *** you can find. Put it in your backpack. Sling it over your shoulder. Then walk home with your bag full of dog ***. That's what Rushed Ceremony feels like. One skill carrying an epic pile of dog ***.

Olupajmibanan · April 2019

I sense a lot of salt here.

Koolio · April 2019

I’ll just take a working Honor The Dead

Tasear · April 2019

Doesn't explain very well why this still is overperfoming.

Reverb · April 2019

If I’m following your analogy (which is honestly pretty challenging) you think that Templar is a bag of steaming dog crap, but no one knows it because Rushed Ceremony is so good. Is that your stance?

If so, I disagree and I don’t recall seeing anyone else make this point in the Templar feedback thread. If that’s not what you meant then your point is totally lost.

usmcjdking · April 2019

Reverb wrote: »

If I’m following your analogy (which is honestly pretty challenging) you think that Templar is a bag of steaming dog crap, but no one knows it because Rushed Ceremony is so good. Is that your stance?

If so, I disagree and I don’t recall seeing anyone else make this point in the Templar feedback thread. If that’s not what you meant then your point is totally lost.

Yup. Half the passives don't work on stamplar. Half the other passives have literally half the efficiency of other classes (Mending versus Accelerated Growth. Prism & Illuminate taking up two passives compared to Mountain's Blessing obviously taking 1). Some skills have no, or miserable utility (Sun Shield versus Obsidian Shield, Bone Shield, Empowered Ward), Restoring Aura being a completely useless AOE skill at this point (4k cost for minor magicka steal compared to a free skill that also does major breach, repentance nerfed into the ground via not only nerfs, but massive gains in passive sustain and healing amps), trash healing amps. I could go on and on, most of it's sitting in the templar feedback thread anyways.

Point being that if you remove Rushed Ceremony this class fails to operate in any spec sans magplar DPS and ceases to work to any acceptable degree in PVP.

Minno · April 2019

Tasear wrote: »

Doesn't explain very well why this still is overperfoming.

It does when you realize what templar lost:
- cheap purge with 5 effects on both morphs
- old 25% extra healing in circles that could have stacked with major/minor mending
- then lost major mending
- then BOL got nerfed a bunch of times on both cost and heal value
- miss chance removal, which was our strongest proactive defense
- eclipse actually reflecting things like dawnbreaker/projectiles
- sweeps heal/dmg nerfed multiple times
- blazing shield taking extensive nerfs making it uter garbage.
- major protection on cheap 75 cost ultimate

All this, only to see other classes without a burst heal get major mending/vitality with better healing than templar has with a burst heal. Even worse, see some classes get BOL style heal ANYWAY while having access to proactive defenses.

Templar is a pile of garbage, outside of argonian healbot tanks.

Tasear · April 2019

Minno wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Doesn't explain very well why this still is overperfoming.

It does when you realize what templar lost:
- cheap purge with 5 effects on both morphs
- old 25% extra healing in circles that could have stacked with major/minor mending
- then lost major mending
- then BOL got nerfed a bunch of times on both cost and heal value
- miss chance removal, which was our strongest proactive defense
- eclipse actually reflecting things like dawnbreaker/projectiles
- sweeps heal/dmg nerfed multiple times
- blazing shield taking extensive nerfs making it uter garbage.
- major protection on cheap 75 cost ultimate

All this, only to see other classes without a burst heal get major mending/vitality with better healing than templar has with a burst heal. Even worse, see some classes get BOL style heal ANYWAY while having access to proactive defenses.

Templar is a pile of garbage, outside of argonian healbot tanks.

Most definitely not the reason

ccmedaddy · April 2019

Try playing a magplar in no-CP where BoL isn't even strong enough of a self heal to rely on as your sole defense xD It truly is a garbage class outside of a few niche group builds atm.

Kova · April 2019

Take underaged players out of the game.

Did it work?

Minno · April 2019

Tasear wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Doesn't explain very well why this still is overperfoming.

It does when you realize what templar lost:
- cheap purge with 5 effects on both morphs
- old 25% extra healing in circles that could have stacked with major/minor mending
- then lost major mending
- then BOL got nerfed a bunch of times on both cost and heal value
- miss chance removal, which was our strongest proactive defense
- eclipse actually reflecting things like dawnbreaker/projectiles
- sweeps heal/dmg nerfed multiple times
- blazing shield taking extensive nerfs making it uter garbage.
- major protection on cheap 75 cost ultimate

All this, only to see other classes without a burst heal get major mending/vitality with better healing than templar has with a burst heal. Even worse, see some classes get BOL style heal ANYWAY while having access to proactive defenses.

Templar is a pile of garbage, outside of argonian healbot tanks.

Minno wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Doesn't explain very well why this still is overperfoming.

It does when you realize what templar lost:
- cheap purge with 5 effects on both morphs
- old 25% extra healing in circles that could have stacked with major/minor mending
- then lost major mending
- then BOL got nerfed a bunch of times on both cost and heal value
- miss chance removal, which was our strongest proactive defense
- eclipse actually reflecting things like dawnbreaker/projectiles
- sweeps heal/dmg nerfed multiple times
- blazing shield taking extensive nerfs making it uter garbage.
- major protection on cheap 75 cost ultimate

All this, only to see other classes without a burst heal get major mending/vitality with better healing than templar has with a burst heal. Even worse, see some classes get BOL style heal ANYWAY while having access to proactive defenses.

Templar is a pile of garbage, outside of argonian healbot tanks.

Minno wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Doesn't explain very well why this still is overperfoming.

It does when you realize what templar lost:
- cheap purge with 5 effects on both morphs
- old 25% extra healing in circles that could have stacked with major/minor mending
- then lost major mending
- then BOL got nerfed a bunch of times on both cost and heal value
- miss chance removal, which was our strongest proactive defense
- eclipse actually reflecting things like dawnbreaker/projectiles
- sweeps heal/dmg nerfed multiple times
- blazing shield taking extensive nerfs making it uter garbage.
- major protection on cheap 75 cost ultimate

All this, only to see other classes without a burst heal get major mending/vitality with better healing than templar has with a burst heal. Even worse, see some classes get BOL style heal ANYWAY while having access to proactive defenses.

Templar is a pile of garbage, outside of argonian healbot tanks.

Most definitely not the reason

If it isn't, play high MMR nCP BGs and let me know how that works out

.

mcagatayg · April 2019

its already nerfed to the ground anyway

p00tx · April 2019

I actually sort of agree with this post. Everyone freaks out every time a Magplar is able to heal themselves with RC, but they miss the entire picture with that. While a templar is healing themselves with their one portable heal that doesn't cost a small fortune, they are not fighting. That means their opponent is not taking any dmg. It may look impressive until you realize we're stuck either fighting or healing. There is no in between for us. If you apply enough pressure (as any good, experienced player would and should do), a Magplar will eventually run out of resources healing themselves, and you can easily kill them. We lack a useful HoT or defensive skill, and rely entirely on reactive healing, which is super inefficient in fast paced fights.

Total Dark would be cool, except in the current land of "everyone has and uses every CC at all times", it's nearly impossible to get that on a player since it won't apply on CC cooldown.

Drdeath20 · April 2019

At this point why not

frostz417 · April 2019

usmcjdking wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

If I’m following your analogy (which is honestly pretty challenging) you think that Templar is a bag of steaming dog crap, but no one knows it because Rushed Ceremony is so good. Is that your stance?

If so, I disagree and I don’t recall seeing anyone else make this point in the Templar feedback thread. If that’s not what you meant then your point is totally lost.

Yup. Half the passives don't work on stamplar. Half the other passives have literally half the efficiency of other classes (Mending versus Accelerated Growth. Prism & Illuminate taking up two passives compared to Mountain's Blessing obviously taking 1). Some skills have no, or miserable utility (Sun Shield versus Obsidian Shield, Bone Shield, Empowered Ward), Restoring Aura being a completely useless AOE skill at this point (4k cost for minor magicka steal compared to a free skill that also does major breach, repentance nerfed into the ground via not only nerfs, but massive gains in passive sustain and healing amps), trash healing amps. I could go on and on, most of it's sitting in the templar feedback thread anyways.

Point being that if you remove Rushed Ceremony this class fails to operate in any spec sans magplar DPS and ceases to work to any acceptable degree in PVP.

Uh what?

CatchMeTrolling · April 2019

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Try playing a magplar in no-CP where BoL isn't even strong enough of a self heal to rely on as your sole defense xD It truly is a garbage class outside of a few niche group builds atm.

I actually agree with this, bol is actually pretty terrible for a burst heal in bgs, I noticed this the last time I played my magplar. Couldn’t out heal certain damage once I had multiple debuffs and defiles on me. Which is odd because in the same scenario on my stam builds id dodge and be back to full health just by using rally+vigor. It’s stronger in cp because well it’s cp but in no cp it’s been butchered. Only people it’s good for it’s the ones that’s spamming heals.

Of course if you are playing low mmr matches your experience will be different. Although all my characters generally face the same tryhards and people that know what they’re doing. I don’t think it’s a garbage class but I do think it’s in a completely different level in comparison to cp. and that it’s a shadow of its former self in bgs when you compare it to when bgs first launched.

Baconlad · April 2019

So...when a magsorc can have one shield in CP land sit at 11k...and their only at 19k resist, that's not an issue for you.

But a magplar has 33k resist and 11k Honor the Dead crits...but 6k non crits, and you can't stack the heal, the heal doesn't inflate your health value at all. Its reactive as opposed to proactive.

A sorc can cast their shield, which will always be the same as my magplar HTD crits, then for good measure throw another shield on. at any time they can cast this shield and get the exact same shield size and benefit. They also get HOTs and a small burst heal on top of all that. My magplar over heals almost half the time I'm using HTD...meaning I waste magic. Meaning I need more built in resists/ mitigation/ mag regen, meaning my heals are even smaller...and my damage suffers....alot...and in YOUR mind, honor the dead is so powerful it needs a massive nerf or removal from the game?

IMHO, honor the dead/ Breath of Life is a ridiculously weak skill as far as class defense goes. Its only real benefit is stacking healing bonuses and healing friends. Its here that I feel there is a problem, I believe that if they nerf honor the dead and breath of light to be caster only, well be able to finally buff magplar dps, stamplar dps. Zenimax has been trying for years to NOT BUFF GROUP HEALTANKS...and in doing so they stripped the class of all of her class defense. I will say here, that I have no issue with tanks in pvp. I actually think they have a place. And a magplar healtank who's only able to guard a buddy and heal himself is no issue in my mind, any class can do that. But a magplar guarding, healing himself and healing his buddy with that burst heal? I have issue with. I dont like group heals in pvp period....I'm a bit biased though...

Anyway, I've discussed this idea with others and many dont take the bait on it. Healing allies with HTD or BOL in clutch situations has been a magplar forte for years...and many aren't ok with that change...I get it, I toss a random heal out all the time. But we have many other ways to contribute to small scale play that I'd love to not be pigeonholed.

Ever go into a BG on magplar, get top BG kills and the kid on ur team with the least kill and most deaths calls you a bad healer? You know our plight than...

ccmedaddy · April 2019

Baconlad wrote: »

Ever go into a BG on magplar, get top BG kills and the kid on ur team with the least kill and most deaths calls you a bad healer? You know our plight than...

LOL yup

Firstmep · April 2019

Its kind of insane how much of our defenses were stripped away over the years.

Im still trying to understand the rationale behing removing minor protection from restoring focus and putting it on the aedric skill passive(we also lost our blocking passive for that btw tyZeni).

They shouldve just put it on Chanelled focus too and thats it, magplar have protections as well as stamplars. Wardens get minor protection baked into their resistance skill.

And dont even get me started on our passives lol:D

Mostly all combat skill line passives give combat related bonuses, but we *** like Master Ritualist, lie wth.

Imagine one of the nightblade passives being replaced with one that makes them force locks on chest 15% more effective and give them 1% extra gold from chests(stealing flavoured passive). Thats about how useful that passive is.

Imagine sorcerers having one of their passives replaced with one that gives them a 50% chance to not consume a soul gem when recharging a weapon enchantment.

I think we all get the idea.

And what pisses me off the most is that nightblades and dks are getting mechanical changes left right and center this patch, meanwhile we get a big fat nothing.

Minno · April 2019

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

Ever go into a BG on magplar, get top BG kills and the kid on ur team with the least kill and most deaths calls you a bad healer? You know our plight than...

LOL yup

lol same. Had one player jump into lava until I started healing but I was stamplar at the time hahahaha.

Irylia · April 2019

Lel heal bot slaves trying to rise up.

I THINK NOT!

Minno · April 2019

Baconlad wrote: »

So...when a magsorc can have one shield in CP land sit at 11k...and their only at 19k resist, that's not an issue for you.

But a magplar has 33k resist and 11k Honor the Dead crits...but 6k non crits, and you can't stack the heal, the heal doesn't inflate your health value at all. Its reactive as opposed to proactive.

A sorc can cast their shield, which will always be the same as my magplar HTD crits, then for good measure throw another shield on. at any time they can cast this shield and get the exact same shield size and benefit. They also get HOTs and a small burst heal on top of all that. My magplar over heals almost half the time I'm using HTD...meaning I waste magic. Meaning I need more built in resists/ mitigation/ mag regen, meaning my heals are even smaller...and my damage suffers....alot...and in YOUR mind, honor the dead is so powerful it needs a massive nerf or removal from the game?

IMHO, honor the dead/ Breath of Life is a ridiculously weak skill as far as class defense goes. Its only real benefit is stacking healing bonuses and healing friends. Its here that I feel there is a problem, I believe that if they nerf honor the dead and breath of light to be caster only, well be able to finally buff magplar dps, stamplar dps. Zenimax has been trying for years to NOT BUFF GROUP HEALTANKS...and in doing so they stripped the class of all of her class defense. I will say here, that I have no issue with tanks in pvp. I actually think they have a place. And a magplar healtank who's only able to guard a buddy and heal himself is no issue in my mind, any class can do that. But a magplar guarding, healing himself and healing his buddy with that burst heal? I have issue with. I dont like group heals in pvp period....I'm a bit biased though...

Anyway, I've discussed this idea with others and many dont take the bait on it. Healing allies with HTD or BOL in clutch situations has been a magplar forte for years...and many aren't ok with that change...I get it, I toss a random heal out all the time. But we have many other ways to contribute to small scale play that I'd love to not be pigeonholed.

Ever go into a BG on magplar, get top BG kills and the kid on ur team with the least kill and most deaths calls you a bad healer? You know our plight than...

you two are saying to same exact thing. Except OP is saying BOL has been the main reason that has stopped templar from becoming the powerhouse it wants to be while you are saying BOL isnt doing enough to provide the missing components of a successful/competitive class.

Minno · April 2019

Irylia wrote: »

Lel heal bot slaves trying to rise up.

I THINK NOT!

Silly goblins, slavery is for Dirty Dark Elves.