Should Draining Shot be way more expensive?

Anotherone773

TheYKcid wrote: »

Making statements like:

"after spending several days in Cyro"
"bow/bow character"
"a class [Stamplar] that is so good at a lot of things"

does not boost your credibility when debating balance issues.

I neither need nor asked for your approval. Also taking things out of context will do nothing for your credibility when debating anything.


1) "after spending several days in Cyro" - try reading the whole sentence slowly so you understand it.

2) Bow/bow character-not sure if this is a poorly attempted dig at bow/bow or if you are just new, but i absolutely murder people with a bow. If you dont think a bow/bow setup is any good, then you are obviously playing it wrong.

3) "a class [Stamplar] that is so good at a lot of things" dont insert words into my sentences. i said class. Templar is a class. Stamplar is not. And again, if you find the class to be short that probably going to be a L2P issue on your part sort of like your glaring L2R issue.

Thanks for playing, now get back under your bridge Troll until you can also comprehend English.

TheYKcid

Okay.

Vietfox

Javelins are more expensive, yes, but don't forget that you gain some of the aedric spears passives just by having it slotted too.

Maulkin

Vietfox wrote: »

Javelins are more expensive, yes, but don't forget that you gain some of the aedric spears passives just by having it slotted too.

And the bow skill line has no passives. Well done.

Ragnarock41

While draining shot is not an expensive ability, lets not forget bow builds are not in an amazing spot despite the recent buffs. Especially considering the upcoming snipe nerfs, and the state of dual wield & Sword and board, I would say let bow have something.

I really miss the days where 2h/bow was meta for stam builds, the game was a lot more dynamic and fun, I would like to go back to those days. Right now draining shot is a tad too strong but aren't all the weapon lines have something similar? Reverb with SnB, rending with dual wield etc...

If anything you should be asking for a buff to javelin in my opinion.

Vietfox

Maulkin wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Javelins are more expensive, yes, but don't forget that you gain some of the aedric spears passives just by having it slotted too.

And the bow skill line has no passives. Well done.

Yes it does, but class passives are usually better than weapon passives. Didn't you notice?

Royalthought

Really? Another nerf thread still going? Enough already.

These nerf threads are full of hypocrisy, bias, shortsightedness and mostly just hating.

Case in point: The OP made a post about draining shot, asking for a nerf because its 800 or so cheaper than javelin.

All the while cleansing ritual is 4320. Purge is 8100!

Tried to hint at it but it was taken as me being pro draining shot. In reality Im fine with draining shot and cleansing ritual as they are.

Who ever wants ONE to be nerfed is biased. Who ever wants both to be nerfed is...

Toc de Malsvi

Maulkin wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Javelins are more expensive, yes, but don't forget that you gain some of the aedric spears passives just by having it slotted too.

And the bow skill line has no passives. Well done.

These aren't quite the same.

Yes the bow skill line has passives, no you don't get them from slotting Draining Shot(obviously no player would intentionally slot a skill from a weapon that is not equipped).

Javelin gives a 28m CC and class passives to S&B, DW, 2H, Destro, resto, bow and unarmed. Only Bow gets Draining Shot. Which means you can run a S&B/2H and use a 28m CC despite both weapon lines being restricted to melee.

If you want to use a Bow Draining Shot is usually massively superior to Javelin. But Javelin offers greater flexibility.

This isn't to say Draining Shot isn't overtuned, just the passives and access are note quite the same. While you can swap weapons on the fly you cannot change classes in the same manner.

SodanTok

Objectively sure, but there is something like bigger picture. Abilities shouldnt be normalized if the situation they are put in arent normalized either. While something like javelin on usual melee templar can be nerfed to oblivion without affecting templar and most builds, nerfing draining shot to oblivion would be literally game breaking for several underused playstyles. Since such extreme measures would have totally different consequences, even small nerfs like that shouldnt be happening equally.

Maulkin

SodanTok wrote: »

Objectively sure, but there is something like bigger picture. Abilities shouldnt be normalized if the situation they are put in arent normalized either. While something like javelin on usual melee templar can be nerfed to oblivion without affecting templar and most builds, nerfing draining shot to oblivion would be literally game breaking for several underused playstyles. Since such extreme measures would have totally different consequences, even small nerfs like that shouldnt be happening equally.

Who spoke about nerfing it to oblivion? How big is that strawman you are building? I said that the cost is too cheap and should go up by 1k. You shouldn’t be spamming CCs anyway.

JobooAGS

Maulkin wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Objectively sure, but there is something like bigger picture. Abilities shouldnt be normalized if the situation they are put in arent normalized either. While something like javelin on usual melee templar can be nerfed to oblivion without affecting templar and most builds, nerfing draining shot to oblivion would be literally game breaking for several underused playstyles. Since such extreme measures would have totally different consequences, even small nerfs like that shouldnt be happening equally.

Who spoke about nerfing it to oblivion? How big is that strawman you are building? I said that the cost is too cheap and should go up by 1k. You shouldn’t be spamming CCs anyway.

Honestly, if draining shot and the other morph were to have a cost increase, like a 1k base cost increase as you suggested, I wouldnt mind overall. However, my point still stands on javelin and it should get its cost decreased

SodanTok

Maulkin wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Objectively sure, but there is something like bigger picture. Abilities shouldnt be normalized if the situation they are put in arent normalized either. While something like javelin on usual melee templar can be nerfed to oblivion without affecting templar and most builds, nerfing draining shot to oblivion would be literally game breaking for several underused playstyles. Since such extreme measures would have totally different consequences, even small nerfs like that shouldnt be happening equally.

Who spoke about nerfing it to oblivion? How big is that strawman you are building? I said that the cost is too cheap and should go up by 1k. You shouldn’t be spamming CCs anyway.

I spoke about nerfing it oblivion, if you read my post you would maybe get it. You said the cost is too cheap compared to other CCs, but this ability is very obviously affected differently than other CCs. You are trying to subject it to normalization, yet its surroundings arent normalized. You cannot disagree extreme measures like nerfing it to oblivion (notice the like before you lose yourself again) would have much different impact than nerfing many other CCs. Therefore normalization have also different impact.

And what should and should not be spammed is again something that isnt normalized. The only reason to spam CCs is they fail to affect enemies with CC or they give beneficial effects from spamming it. Just from that it is quite clear that every CC ability behaves differently since there are several different stages of 'how reliable it is to CC someone' and also different bonuses from hitting already CCed target. In case of draining shot the only reason to 'spam' this ability is if it fails to CC enemy that has whole flight time to decide if they cloak, dodge, block, pop potion or reflect this ability. Compared to ability like reverb that can be spammed (if users chooses to) to reapply debuff or reach to reapply DoT (not that I agree with cost of this ability mind you) it is again very obvious that the cost is there to alleviate the issue of frequent recast.

(no need to argue more, I was just using this platform to state my mind for people up in the decision office)

Irylia

Draining shot range should be reverted
It’s an archer tool to keep enemies off of them when they get close
Not to spam on people they are zerging down

Juhasow

It was a mistake to increase range of that ability to 28 meters without any drawbacks to balance it out. Like seriously 4 times longer range and so strings attached when ability was clearly balanced around previous meele range ? It was obvious it'll be broken bs since the day ZoS introduced that change. They should either remove knockbak or stun part completly leaving only 1 of those , remove the damage or make the range smaller at ~15 meters. Having 28 meters range , cheap cost , stun , knockback , decent damage(when compared to other stunning abilities) and burst heal is just way too much for a single ability.

Metemsycosis

vermillion2077 wrote: »

I current use Binding Javelin on my Stamplar, but I've been thinking about switching over to Silver Leash tbh. It pulls people to melee range and that snare sounds nice for landing my Jabs. It deals more damage than Javelin too.

Most competent players break free the moment they are stunned by the Javelin, so I don't find the 3 seconds all that attractive. Binding Javelin, for what it does, is underwhelming.

Regarding Draining Shot, I think it would be a great CC if you only use it to create distance or if you have a reliable gap closer, because you'll be pushing people away -- which is counter productive considering Stamplar depends on Jabs.

I absolutely love the stun time of javelin but
potl leash and dbos/onslaught together is just really awesome burst.

I think javelin is fine as is, considering it isn't tied to any specific weapon.

Jeezye

Alucardo wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

Draining shot is definitely one of the „overloaded“ abilities, as others have pointed out in direct comparison to clench/spear.

I like the way the skill works, but it should def get a cost increase by at least 1k to also prevent spamming from stupid zerglings.

I always thought the masters clench spam was bad until they buffed draining shot...

Alternatively I'd be happy if they just brought the range back to what it was originally. If you want that heal then come and get it. There's no risk vs reward attached to it.

ACTUALLY that'd be a very attractive solution. One morph has range and knocks yourself back for even higher range, the other only works in close combat but gives you a heal to compensate. I'd be all for it!

Luckylancer

I didnt see draining shot is abused. So leave it and buff javelin pls.

susmitds wrote: »

Draining Shot has a very small 1.5 second stun compared to Javelin's 3.5 sec.

Shot stuns longer than javelin and have heal.
Javelin: cc break duration, shot: knock away + cc break duration.

Feanor

I didnt see draining shot is abused.

You didn’t see Draining Shot abused? Where were you in the last year?

Joy_Division

susmitds wrote: »

Draining Shot has a very small 1.5 second stun compared to Javelin's 3.5 sec.

Relevant in PvE land. Players will break free as soon as they can, which in the case of Draining Shot, usually takes longer than Javelin. Also Javelin does not heal.

technohic

Alucardo wrote: »

Or they could reduce the cost of javelin. It does feel very expensive for what it is.

This!

I am using draining shot over Javelin. I could see them just raising its cost to javelin level and just screwing us both ways.

Oh; and javelin gets more damage than the tool tip due to burning light. Even considering bow passives, unless that extra crit is counted but it would have to have a 0 crit resit target almost to make up for it. Javelin does need something though.

Emma_Overload

WTF AT THAT DRAINING SHOT TOOLTIP????!!!!

Can you guys imagine if Destructive Reach had a 7K heal attached to it and only cost 2K magicka????!!!!

Juhasow

Feanor wrote: »

I didnt see draining shot is abused.

You didn’t see Draining Shot abused? Where were you in the last year?

Propably doing some memes in PvE.