Flurry Is Officially Melee Damage??? (Indirect)

BrokenGameMechanics

Through the years there have been regular postings about how "odd" the DW line was with regard to proc'ing. Looks like much of this has been addressed in the latest PTS patch.

In the PTS Patch Notes we have, "Advancing Yokeda - Fixed an issue where this set could not proc off abilities such as Rapid Strikes." As Berserking procs "when you do melee damage" we now, for the first time know that Rapid Strikes is officially Melee Damage. Progress!!!

However, notoriously, there are years of regular posts about Flurry not procing Ravager, which also procs from "melee damage, and how come Jabs does proc Ravager? ESO was always non-responsive on this and some crazy reasons included "well Ravager is procing off a passive and not really Jabs ..." to "Flurry is a "channel ability, hence not considered Melee ..." to "Jabs has a cast time, but is not a channel, so that is why it procs Ravager and Flurry doesn't ..." <sigh>

Anyway ...

If possible could someone test on PTS that Flurry does now indeed proc Ravager. Also, while you are slicing away, as the tool tip description states that the Flurry skill does "5 consecutive attacks" over a channel time can you check that each attack has a chance to proc (I think Jabs does this, not sure.) If true then Rapid Strikes would have like a 44% chance of procing Ravager.

Nevasca

Flurry doesn't proc Ravager because it counts as a DOT, not because it's not considered melee.

vesselwiththepestle

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Flurry doesn't proc Ravager because it counts as a DOT, not because it's not considered melee.

Ravager 5 piece: When you deal melee damage ...

Not direct damage or something. Melee damage.

BrokenGameMechanics

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Flurry doesn't proc Ravager because it counts as a DOT, not because it's not considered melee.

A skill is either DOT or DIRECT and then also either MELEE or RANGED.

Flurry to the best my knowledge is now officially a INDIRECT, MELEE skill. The assumption that Flurry is a MELEE skill comes from the patch notes that say that Rapid Strikes now procs Adv.Yokeda. As Adv Yokeda, procs from "melee damage", we conclude Flurry is MELEE.

Now follow me here ...

Ravager also procs from "melee damage", ergo, we conclude that Flurry should also proc Ravager. BUT, there are years of postings about that not being the case.

So ... either Flurry should proc BOTH Adv. Yok and Rav or it should not proc either one. Procing AY and not Rav would not make sense.

FWIW, Flurry does NOT proc Selene as Selene is "direct melee damage".

Nevasca

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Flurry doesn't proc Ravager because it counts as a DOT, not because it's not considered melee.

Ravager 5 piece: When you deal melee damage ...

Not direct damage or something. Melee damage.

Have you even tested the set? It only procs on direct damage. Yes the tooltip doesn't mention anything, but that's how it works. That's why the set was good for PvE a few patches ago - Relequen (which is a dot) was proccing Ravager, making it easy to maintain 90%+ uptime.

vesselwiththepestle

I did a test.

Ravager does not proc of Flurry.

Berserking Warrior, Knightmare and Ward of Cyrodiil do.

BrokenGameMechanics

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Flurry doesn't proc Ravager because it counts as a DOT, not because it's not considered melee.

Ravager 5 piece: When you deal melee damage ...

Not direct damage or something. Melee damage.

Have you even tested the set? It only procs on direct damage. Yes the tooltip doesn't mention anything, but that's how it works. That's why the set was good for PvE a few patches ago - Relequen (which is a dot) was proccing Ravager, making it easy to maintain 90%+ uptime.

I have tested the set on live a few times. I can't test it on PTS with the latest "fixes".

The problem is historically you can't square the circle between Jabs/Flurry with Rav. If I understand you correctly you are saying "the Ravager set description is wrong, and should read 'direct melee damage' and the AY description is correct with only 'direct melee'". Fine then that is a different bug. BUT, I'm assuming the set descriptions are correct, therefore, IF Flurry procs AY it ... has ... to ... proc Rav.

Bonus Round: Why is Jabs with a 1.1 sec cast time DIRECT and Flurry with a 0.6 sec channel time INDIRECT?

Not that it matters for AY and RAV, only "melee damage" is required.

Yea, I remember the Rel+Rav issue. I wore it then. But the bug was not that Rel was incorrectly procing Rav cause its a DOT, its because AFAIK a Set is not supposed to proc a Set, but I'm really unsure about that.

BrokenGameMechanics

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I did a test.

Ravager does not proc of Flurry.

Berserking Warrior, Knightmare and Ward of Cyrodiil do.

THANK YOU.

The we have a bug either:

1. Ravager set description is wrong and should read, "direct melee damage".
2. Ravager is not being proc'd by Flurry when it should.

Nevasca

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

If I understand you correctly you are saying "the Ravager set description is wrong, and should read 'direct melee damage'

Exactly. It's been like that since forever. An easy test to confirm this, is to try with dots and see if ti procs. Example: Wear Ravager and use rendering slashes on a target dummy (the initial hit is a direct damage, all dots do that, so discard the initial hits procs).

Advanced Yokeda will proc off of any melee damage though. It's only Ravager's tooltip that's wrong.

BrokenGameMechanics

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Exactly. It's been like that since forever. It's only Ravager's tooltip that's wrong.

I hear you. On the other hand, hard to believe that a popular set like Ravager that gets semi-regular posting about its failure to proc off of melee damage, and only required 30 secs to add ONE WORD to the description to fix the issue, has remained like this for years.

Onefrkncrzypope

Deadly also buffs flurry

Nevasca

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Exactly. It's been like that since forever. It's only Ravager's tooltip that's wrong.

I hear you. On the other hand, hard to believe that a popular set like Ravager that gets semi-regular posting about its failure to proc off of melee damage, and only required 30 secs to add ONE WORD to the description to fix the issue, has remained like this for years.

It is a bit absurd not gonna lie. I think it has something to do with ZOS not fixing/looking after old content, especially old sets. It has slowly been changing (Essence thief on PTS is a good example). Hopefully in the future they at least fix the tooltip.

Sarousse

Has anyone tested maelstrom dual weapons on pts ? As the description states it should be buffing itself but right now on live server it doesn't.

Description :
"(2 Items) When you deal damage with Flurry, your next single target damage over time ability used within 10 seconds gains 2003 Spell and Weapon Damage."

Kolzki

Strangely blade cloak could proc ravager before the fix to make it correctly function as a dot this pts cycle.

vesselwiththepestle

Sarousse wrote: »

Has anyone tested maelstrom dual weapons on pts ? As the description states it should be buffing itself but right now on live server it doesn't.

Description :
"(2 Items) When you deal damage with Flurry, your next single target damage over time ability used within 10 seconds gains 2003 Spell and Weapon Damage."

I did a test. NO, Cruel Flurry does not buff Flurry (Rapid Strikes).

vesselwiththepestle

Cruel Flurry does buff Noxious Breath and Arrow Spray, though. Dawnbreaker and Rend consume the buff (both aoe), but Ballista (ST) does not.

In regard to Cruel Flurry not buffing Flurry, I am getting some strange results. It seems to me currently that it sometimes does apply. When I am casting Flurry instantly I am getting the same hits as my first Flurry. When I am waiting a second after the end of flurry, the hits get bigger. I have removed armor, enchants etc. It's consistent, when I am casting Flurry after Flurry the same hits, when I am waiting a second between two Flurrys the hits are bigger.

techprince

There are two types, direct damage and damage overtime. This can be both melee and ranged. There is some inconsistency in ravager procs. Jabs are counted as melee + aoe dot where as rapid strikes as melee + single target dot according to pts so yes, rapid strikes should proc ravager now.

Weps

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Flurry doesn't proc Ravager because it counts as a DOT, not because it's not considered melee.

Ravager 5 piece: When you deal melee damage ...

Not direct damage or something. Melee damage.

Have you even tested the set? It only procs on direct damage. Yes the tooltip doesn't mention anything, but that's how it works. That's why the set was good for PvE a few patches ago - Relequen (which is a dot) was proccing Ravager, making it easy to maintain 90%+ uptime.

Jabs proc it. And they're considered DoT.
How could a DoT proc such as Relquen proc it, if it only procs on direct damage?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Weps wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Flurry doesn't proc Ravager because it counts as a DOT, not because it's not considered melee.

Ravager 5 piece: When you deal melee damage ...

Not direct damage or something. Melee damage.

Have you even tested the set? It only procs on direct damage. Yes the tooltip doesn't mention anything, but that's how it works. That's why the set was good for PvE a few patches ago - Relequen (which is a dot) was proccing Ravager, making it easy to maintain 90%+ uptime.

Jabs proc it. And they're considered DoT.
How could a DoT proc such as Relquen proc it, if it only procs on direct damage?

Relequin does not proc ravager anymore. That set did for a bit but they fixed that bug a while ago. As for jabs vs flurry and ravager, I wonder what people would think if they fixed it so that jabs does not proc it. That way jabs and flurry are the same then.

Weps

How about making Flurry proc ravager instead?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Weps wrote: »

How about making Flurry proc ravager instead?

It would make more sense making ravager not proc on jabs. You might not like it, but that is the truth.

All of this is a moo point in my opinion though, till they make the extra 300% added on the last hit scale like it seems it ought to, that being basically tooptip*4, see more about this here- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/441718/flurry-and-morphs-300-final-hit-not-scaling-correctly-from-percent-amps, no one is going to use it, as it will always be ~10+% weaker then the skill seems to imply.

BrokenGameMechanics

OP here ... So I started this thread because one way of looking at the PTS Patch Notes is that ESO is FINALLY starting to fix swathes of broken stuff in skills.

Far and away without equal, no other skill is as severally broken as Flurry et al.

It is incredibly broken in several multiple major ways:

Enchants broken (maybe recently fixed, I don't know)
Rapid spamming gives inconsistent numbers (see above).
Broken damage calculation with CP.
Cruel Flurry doesn't work.
Inconsistent treatment of what it is: Melee, DOT, Channel and what it does and does not proc.
As a Channel skill, should it or should it not be "breakable" with movement out of LOS. Since you have to be like 7M away breaking LOS is pretty easy (step forward) or the attacker has to do a dodge roll and skill is interrupted BEFORE receiving the important 5th strike bonuses.

Things I don't recall if know to be consistent or not, for Proc'ing purposes is it 5 individual attacks or 1 overall attack?
Can it proc an enchant on a single weapon more then one time per invocation? Can it proc BOTH enchants for each weapon per invocation? It used to be it only proc'd the Right hand, the Left hand enchant NEVER proc'd.

Plus, not sure people were completely aware of this, but it has (had) BY FAR the LOWEST scaling of ANY damage dealing skill. Seriously checkout the Skill Coefficients .. so low that I truly believe they were entered into ESO's system with a typo and has remained like that for years.

So with the fix for AY and maybe a fix for Rav and IF they fixed the enchant problem and they FINALLY buffed it 20% to "be inline with other spammables" , who knows it MAY now be a slotable skill.

As spammables go, it is very, very hard to get it to hit in PVP. For example, Jabs is AOE-ish and even that was expanded to give a wider "hit" area recently because it so hard to hit in PVP. Flurry is basically impossible to hit anyone who is moving around. I suspect that even with the buff and the AY will still be a useless end game skill.

NyassaV

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Flurry doesn't proc Ravager because it counts as a DOT, not because it's not considered melee.

Both actually.