*CONTROVERSIAL* Necropotence is pointless

Girl_Number8

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Seriously...why is this set used and SO highly recommended? I get 4K extra magicka...but I’m going to sacrifice extra damage, extra crit or extra buffs? Come on...none of my pet builds use this set.
So why use it

It is a great set and you don't need a pet sorcy to proc it....I don't run a pet sorcy at all but necro is worth having. Not pointless in the least.

Enough other people answered the why but wear what you want. A lot of sets people don't even think of are fantastic in PvP. Just depends on your theory crafting and your experience with the classes, also how you play.

Ratzkifal

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Cyhawk wrote: »

Does any other set give this much? No.

Just being pedantic, but Burning Spellweave gives over 750. It's limited to DKs and maybe templars though.

@MaxJrFTW Works decent on nonpet sorcs using destrostaff and wall of elements over liquid lightning.
Templars deal mostly magic damage and not fire, so not on them unless they also go destrostaff and use those skills.

AOE morph of sun fire + fire staff.

Could have sword it was magic damage... oh well, you are right I guess.

JinMori

I use it on warden because it does just as much damage if not more than bsw, but it's less rng reliant.

Commancho

Because when combined with mother of sorrow it gives most optimal output dps/survivalibity/rescources.

Emma_Overload

Cyhawk wrote: »

Lots of misinformation.

For magicka abilities, their damage/effectiveness is based on Max Magicka and Spell Damage. The higher both values, the more damage those skills do. ^1

Hardened Ward follows both of these rules. The more spell power AND max magicka you have the larger shield. ^2

However due to the recent change, if you were able to cast a say, 20k shield before, you are now over the cap and it becomes 10k. Increasing your health will increase the strength strength due to this artificial limitation.

^1 Some skills are weighted towards one stat or the other. Before this last patch, sorc pets didn't use Spell damage at all in their calculations, only max magicka made a difference. So the more max magicka = better pet damage. This is still pretty much true.

^2 Hardened ward is also weighted towards max magicka more than spell damage.

For generic damage abilities, the rule is 10 magicka = 1 Spell power. (variations of course exist, only testing will confirm that a specific skill works that way), Necropotence gives the equivalent of 600 spell damage (or more depending on stat scaling). Does any other set give this much? No.

This post is really funny, because the first thing you say is misinformation.

Hardened Ward SCALES off of Magicka and is CAPPED by Health. Period. No Spell Damage is involved anywhere in Ward size.

MythrialDrow

Necro is brilliant for pet sorc. I still use it on mine and have done trials vet dungeon etc

Emma_Overload

Here's what the "experts" fail to realize about Necropotence and pet damage when they look at their dummy parses: when you pug dungeons with any random group of players like I do, you can't count on always having tanks that tank properly and healers that heal properly. I'm always having to go to my off bar to screw around with heals and buffs and who-knows-what. I'm also frequently having to drop whatever I am doing and RUN for my life, LOL, while some untaunted boss chases me all over Tamriel.

In situations like these, the ONLY source of DPS for that period of time (until you resume your rotation) is going to be pet damage, and pet damage scales off of MAGICKA. This is why my favorite set combo is Necropotence and Mother's Sorrow, sets that improve almost all your damage but don't waste any slots on Spell Damage that doesn't help your pets.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Here's what the "experts" fail to realize about Necropotence and pet damage when they look at their dummy parses: when you pug dungeons with any random group of players like I do, you can't count on always having tanks that tank properly and healers that heal properly. I'm always having to go to my off bar to screw around with heals and buffs and who-knows-what. I'm also frequently having to drop whatever I am doing and RUN for my life, LOL, while some untaunted boss chases me all over Tamriel.

In situations like these, the ONLY source of DPS for that period of time (until you resume your rotation) is going to be pet damage, and pet damage scales off of MAGICKA. This is why my favorite set combo is Necropotence and Mother's Sorrow, sets that improve almost all your damage, but don't waste any slots on Spell Damage that doesn't help your pets.

You are right. Also might point that there is (the very underrated) Destruction Mastery who greatly boosts Magicka on top of Necropotence.
A dirty cheap set, especially purple jewelry, which raises Magicka even higher since Wrathstone patch. (an additional +20% magicka from the set not shown on toolptip)

Making 60K magicka build possible.

FrancisCrawford

gamerguy757 wrote: »

VMA is a walk in the park in general lol even without Necro.
My pet sorc uses Infall/Julianos/Illsmbris and hits hard.
Is Necro REALLY that necessary?

No one good set is THAT necessary, because there are other good sets that could be in its place.

Ertosi

zaria wrote: »

rumple9 wrote: »

Essential for pet builds. Damage scales off max magicka. The more mag you have the more damage you do. Also as said above about shields.

VMA is a walk in the park with a necropotence pet build

You think of the necro / plague doctor setup? its an high health build to give large shields and an huge health bar.
HA build so you want decent of magic as an emergency pool for shields and healing.
Its an one bar very tanky setup for doing vMA the first times.

@zaria Which set of that combo is preferred on armor and which for jewelry/weapons? Like, do they prefer the light armor 5-piece for offense, or heavy for defense?

FrancisCrawford

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Here's what the "experts" fail to realize about Necropotence and pet damage when they look at their dummy parses: when you pug dungeons with any random group of players like I do, you can't count on always having tanks that tank properly and healers that heal properly. I'm always having to go to my off bar to screw around with heals and buffs and who-knows-what. I'm also frequently having to drop whatever I am doing and RUN for my life, LOL, while some untaunted boss chases me all over Tamriel.

In situations like these, the ONLY source of DPS for that period of time (until you resume your rotation) is going to be pet damage, and pet damage scales off of MAGICKA. This is why my favorite set combo is Necropotence and Mother's Sorrow, sets that improve almost all your damage but don't waste any slots on Spell Damage that doesn't help your pets.

Good point. When things go wrong, Necropotence is relatively better than when things are going swimmingly.

And by the way, basic attacks now scale with max magicka as well as spell power, and 5-piece bonuses get the generic CP boost to max stat. So notwithstanding the health cap on sorcerer and light armor shields (which render Necropotence irrelevant to shield strength on most DPS/healing/solo builds), Necropotence is about as useful as it's been at any time since the long-ago direct nerf.

Ardan147

Because the five piece set bonus on Necropotence is comparatively larger than other sets' five-piece bonus, but is conditional on you having a pet active. Sets such as Julianos/Hunding's Rage, Mother's Sorrow, Spinner's/Spriggan's, Draugr Hulk (and the upcoming Crafty Alfiq set) have a five piece bonus worth approximately 2/31 to 2.32 times that of a standard set piece bonus (for 2-4 set pieces). Necropotence five piece bonus is 3.19 times a 2-4 set piece bonus for magicka, but only if you have a pet active.

By this math, the Destruction Mastery set is actually underpowered, as its five piece bonus is only 2.19 times as large as a 2-4 piece bonus. It really ought to add around 2600 max magicka for the fifth piece to be competitive with other sets. (Crafty Alfiq is 2560, without requiring you to be using a destruction staff, though you probably will be anyway).

Androconium

No-one had heard of Mother's Sorrow before they nerfed Necro.

It still sells well, especially the jewellery. So someone wants it.

Emma_Overload

Ardan147 wrote: »

Because the five piece set bonus on Necropotence is comparatively larger than other sets' five-piece bonus, but is conditional on you having a pet active. Sets such as Julianos/Hunding's Rage, Mother's Sorrow, Spinner's/Spriggan's, Draugr Hulk (and the upcoming Crafty Alfiq set) have a five piece bonus worth approximately 2/31 to 2.32 times that of a standard set piece bonus (for 2-4 set pieces). Necropotence five piece bonus is 3.19 times a 2-4 set piece bonus for magicka, but only if you have a pet active.

By this math, the Destruction Mastery set is actually underpowered, as its five piece bonus is only 2.19 times as large as a 2-4 piece bonus. It really ought to add around 2600 max magicka for the fifth piece to be competitive with other sets. (Crafty Alfiq is 2560, without requiring you to be using a destruction staff, though you probably will be anyway).

I used to like Destruction Mastery, but I can't think of a single situation where I would use this set now. You're right, it needs a buff!

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Androconium wrote: »

No-one had heard of Mother's Sorrow before they nerfed Necro.

It still sells well, especially the jewellery. So someone wants it.

Mother's Sorrow became good for Pet Sorcerers, the moment (recently) ZOS changed how pets work.
Now the pets inherit your Magicka, Crit change, Crit damage and Spell penetration, something that wasn't the case before.

Waffennacht

siddique wrote: »

My PetSorc uses Zaan, Necro and Mother's Sorrow in PvP.
In PvE, he sometimes replaces Necro with Siroria.

You're one sick puppy

firedrgn

Its still great for a pet build you can focus into max magika. I would take a buff to the 5 piece if you say its not that good.

GrumpyDuckling

Confused by some of the posts saying that pets don't scale off of spell damage. I thought that pets were recently changed to get buffed by spell damage?

Edit: Looks like they don't. Maybe I was thinking about the patch that allowed them to inherit other stats.

WrathOfInnos

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Confused by some of the posts saying that pets don't scale off of spell damage. I thought that pets were recently changed to get buffed by spell damage?

@GrumpyDuckling Nope, the Twilight and Scamp scale off pretty much everything except Spell Damage now. So things that increase their damage are: Max Magicka, Spell Crit, Critical Damage, Spell Penetration, and % damage done increases (like CP’s, Berserk, Slimecraw). Also debuffs in the enemy, like reducing their Spell Resistance or applying vulnerability.

Ultimate pets (Storm Atronach and Bear) do scale off Spell Damage.

GrumpyDuckling

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Confused by some of the posts saying that pets don't scale off of spell damage. I thought that pets were recently changed to get buffed by spell damage?

@GrumpyDuckling Nope, the Twilight and Scamp scale off pretty much everything except Spell Damage now. So things that increase their damage are: Max Magicka, Spell Crit, Critical Damage, Spell Penetration, and % damage done increases (like CP’s, Berserk, Slimecraw). Also debuffs in the enemy, like reducing their Spell Resistance or applying vulnerability.

Ultimate pets (Storm Atronach and Bear) do scale off Spell Damage.

Thanks for the info. Too bad that Surge and Rattlecage won't affect the pets.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

gamerguy757 wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

Bigger shields(PvP), higher magika pool so you have more time before running out pf resource.

Shields are based on health now though

Only their upper limit, weter or not you reach that limit is up to your magika

oddbasket

I have normal socks. I've been playing with them wrong. I need to make them my pet socks.

Good info here.

shaielzafine

I like Necropotence set, I got to 77k on bosses in trial just heavy attacking on magsorc and in PvP I have been happy with it as well - both in no CP BG's and in CP Cyrodiil campaigns. The extra max magicka can sometimes be the difference in a duel or in a 1vX fight, where you have to go offensive and defensive. You'll have more resources and can outheal the other person with a squishy bursty build. This set is also really good for magwardens for both pve & pvp. I've also heard of magnbs using shadow pet + necropotence set in pvp. I do think it's ultimately up to the player to work on their own builds. If you're copying someone else's build especially for PvP, your mileage will vary. Same for PvE builds, just because someone uses a set combination doesn't mean it's the best. Overall I recommend it to people because it's a great starter set. You only have to go to Rivenspire and it drops overland, or buy it off of guild traders. No need to go farm trials or rewards of the worthy / pvp for it.