Absolutely love minor mangle and vulnerability on NB.

TumlinTheJolly

For a long time, NB has brought almost nothing to group PvP. These debuffs are the PERFECT two debuffs to give NB, to make them desirable for group play.

The only way it could possibly be better would be if Major Vulnerability was brought into the game on Death Stroke (with the higher ult cost ofc, and instead of the 20% bonus damage), OR the 20% bonus damage to target were to be provided to all the NB's group members.

evoniee

just replace the stun at 120 to major vulnerability, we bring mass hysteria anyway

Gnozo

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

For a long time, NB has brought almost nothing to group PvP. These debuffs are the PERFECT two debuffs to give NB, to make them desirable for group play.

The only way it could possibly be better would be if Major Vulnerability was brought into the game on Death Stroke (with the higher ult cost ofc).

Major Vulnerability would be too much if you also have the 20% damage boost wich is also calculated as Vulnerability and would end in a 50% flat damage increase.

TumlinTheJolly

Gnozo wrote: »

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

For a long time, NB has brought almost nothing to group PvP. These debuffs are the PERFECT two debuffs to give NB, to make them desirable for group play.

The only way it could possibly be better would be if Major Vulnerability was brought into the game on Death Stroke (with the higher ult cost ofc).

Major Vulnerability would be too much if you also have the 20% damage boost wich is also calculated as Vulnerability and would end in a 50% flat damage increase.

Apologies, I was unclear. I meant for the 20% to be removed if Major Vuln were added. I have edited the main post.

hakan

Yeah i like the different utilities we bring but grim focus shouldnt go live like that. Minor endurance and magicka version of it(it never had?) needs to return, or it should be a free cost.

Checkmath

No major vulnerability on incap pls, it just makes the skill more obnoxious for zerging and outnumbering. Major vulnerability on the flesh atro of necro is already incredibly strong, so no thank you. Also it would again shift the PvE meta towards nightblades, since they could with a rather cheap ultimate alleviate the groups damage by a crazy amount.

(Small explanation, what I mean with obnoxious on zerging and outnumbering: Such debuffs benefit your friends more than yourself, meaning that even without being specced into a damage dealer, a nb would enable an advantage over an enemy, he didnt deserve. It is a similar story as backlash of the templar class, which copies the damage on a target and deals a part of it after its duration, not depending if the damage comes from the templar or others. Even a healbot tankplar could deal insane damage to an enemy without really doing anything but applying backlash. Backlashs damage then ramps up by the damage of the templars friends.)

John_Falstaff

Checkmath wrote: »

No major vulnerability on incap pls, it just makes the skill more obnoxious for zerging and outnumbering. Major vulnerability on the flesh atro of necro is already incredibly strong, so no thank you. Also it would again shift the PvE meta towards nightblades, since they could with a rather cheap ultimate alleviate the groups damage by a crazy amount.

(Small explanation, what I mean with obnoxious on zerging and outnumbering: Such debuffs benefit your friends more than yourself, meaning that even without being specced into a damage dealer, a nb would enable an advantage over an enemy, he didnt deserve. It is a similar story as backlash of the templar class, which copies the damage on a target and deals a part of it after its duration, not depending if the damage comes from the templar or others. Even a healbot tankplar could deal insane damage to an enemy without really doing anything but applying backlash. Backlashs damage then ramps up by the damage of the templars friends.)

You've just described tank's job, just in case, and last time I checked, tanks are a thing. ^^

TumlinTheJolly

Checkmath wrote: »

No major vulnerability on incap pls, it just makes the skill more obnoxious for zerging and outnumbering.

I wasn't aware that NBs joined zergs... This change would make them actually viable in groups. Nobody currently picks NB for smallscale.

Varana

Minor Mangle - okay, that's not too frequent. It's also not too useful, but whatever.
But Minor Vulnerability - really? It's one of the most common debuffs in existence. From lightning walls to IA, groups are already built around applying it. Having NBs apply is is ... better than nothing, I guess, but also not bringing a lot.

TumlinTheJolly

Varana wrote: »

Minor Mangle - okay, that's not too frequent. It's also not too useful, but whatever.
But Minor Vulnerability - really? It's one of the most common debuffs in existence. From lightning walls to IA, groups are already built around applying it. Having NBs apply is is ... better than nothing, I guess, but also not bringing a lot.

True. I think they're heading in the right direction by giving NB more PvP group viability... but it might not be enough.

VixxVexx

Wouldn't minor mangle also work as a defile? Kind of? It reduces your health and there are quite some heals that are percentage based so that would equal reduced healing no?

TumlinTheJolly

VixxVexx wrote: »

Wouldn't minor mangle also work as a defile? Kind of? It reduces your health and there are quite some heals that are percentage based so that would equal reduced healing no?

Sort of, yes... I think the idea behind Mangle is that it'll be easier for your smallscale group to quickly drop your target into exe range.

Iskiab

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

VixxVexx wrote: »

Wouldn't minor mangle also work as a defile? Kind of? It reduces your health and there are quite some heals that are percentage based so that would equal reduced healing no?

Sort of, yes... I think the idea behind Mangle is that it'll be easier for your smallscale group to quickly drop your target into exe range.

It actually has the opposite effect. Minor mangle means a smaller execute range.

Ragnaroek93

I absolutely HATE this change with a passion. Ambush and Lotus Fan are now completely overpowered (latter one has a snare, 5k initial hit 17k dot and minor vuln on it) but doesn't fit into any rotation nor synergie with nb, aka opening with surprise attack from Cloak or kiting a lot on magblade...

TumlinTheJolly

Iskiab wrote: »

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

VixxVexx wrote: »

Wouldn't minor mangle also work as a defile? Kind of? It reduces your health and there are quite some heals that are percentage based so that would equal reduced healing no?

Sort of, yes... I think the idea behind Mangle is that it'll be easier for your smallscale group to quickly drop your target into exe range.

It actually has the opposite effect. Minor mangle means a smaller execute range.

True, smaller exe range, though all your group's skills are effectively hitting 10% harder. So there is no real difference... except that your target dies faster!

CleymenZero

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

For a long time, NB has brought almost nothing to group PvP. These debuffs are the PERFECT two debuffs to give NB, to make them desirable for group play.

The only way it could possibly be better would be if Major Vulnerability was brought into the game on Death Stroke (with the higher ult cost ofc, and instead of the 20% bonus damage), OR the 20% bonus damage to target were to be provided to all the NB's group members.

The only point I absolutely disagree with is the major vulnerability...

Removing the 20% damage bonus from caster and giving 30% damage bonus to ALL players around is so broken I don't think you actually thought this through.

This would melt ANY player with no chance to survive in 1vX situations. Think about it, you 1v2, you get Major Vulnerability on you, I don't think you'll survive unless you're fighting light attack spammers wearing PvE gear...

I agree with all your other points but completely disagree on the Major Vulnerability. I think - 10% max health and +8% damage taken on your target from all your group members is sufficient for group play.

TumlinTheJolly

CleymenZero wrote: »

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

For a long time, NB has brought almost nothing to group PvP. These debuffs are the PERFECT two debuffs to give NB, to make them desirable for group play.

The only way it could possibly be better would be if Major Vulnerability was brought into the game on Death Stroke (with the higher ult cost ofc, and instead of the 20% bonus damage), OR the 20% bonus damage to target were to be provided to all the NB's group members.

The only point I absolutely disagree with is the major vulnerability...

Removing the 20% damage bonus from caster and giving 30% damage bonus to ALL players around is so broken I don't think you actually thought this through.

This would melt ANY player with no chance to survive in 1vX situations. Think about it, you 1v2, you get Major Vulnerability on you, I don't think you'll survive unless you're fighting light attack spammers wearing PvE gear...

I agree with all your other points but completely disagree on the Major Vulnerability. I think - 10% max health and +8% damage taken on your target from all your group members is sufficient for group play.

Fair enough!... Though the minor debuffs can already be gained from other classes etc (though in doing so they might have to run slightly less damage themselves, so it could even out).

actosh

Well, minor vulnability should be applied to mark target.

If they leave it on teleport strike, the crying will be real on the forums.

Silver_Strider

Leaving Minor Vulnerability on Teleport Strike, when they just buffed Snares on Gap Closers to 60%, is going to lead to nothing but problems, I guarantee it.

Nothing like getting perma snared with Minor Vulnerability on top to get the "Nerf Spambush" threads rolling again.

actosh

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Leaving Minor Vulnerability on Teleport Strike, when they just buffed Snares on Gap Closers to 60%, is going to lead to nothing but problems, I guarantee it.

Nothing like getting perma snared with Minor Vulnerability on top to get the "Nerf Spambush" threads rolling again.

Yep, they should have figured that out by themselves. Needs to change. SPAMBUSH inc as well as crying

Strider__Roshin

It's pretty useless because the duration is short and the minor mangled gets applied only when you have 120 ult which at that point why not just use DBoS

katorga

CleymenZero wrote: »

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

For a long time, NB has brought almost nothing to group PvP. These debuffs are the PERFECT two debuffs to give NB, to make them desirable for group play.

The only way it could possibly be better would be if Major Vulnerability was brought into the game on Death Stroke (with the higher ult cost ofc, and instead of the 20% bonus damage), OR the 20% bonus damage to target were to be provided to all the NB's group members.

The only point I absolutely disagree with is the major vulnerability...

Removing the 20% damage bonus from caster and giving 30% damage bonus to ALL players around is so broken I don't think you actually thought this through.

yeah, that is the Necromancer's role.

Wolfahm

sure remove the vuln and give back fracture and berserk so I don't resort to snipe spamming, K thanks. Pointless nerfs in a never ending circle of pointless nerfs.

kaithuzar

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

For a long time, NB has brought almost nothing to group PvP. These debuffs are the PERFECT two debuffs to give NB, to make them desirable for group play.

The only way it could possibly be better would be if Major Vulnerability was brought into the game on Death Stroke (with the higher ult cost ofc, and instead of the 20% bonus damage), OR the 20% bonus damage to target were to be provided to all the NB's group members.

Are you crazy?
ANYONE can equip a staff, slot impulse & get mangle on multiple opponents. Why would you slot an ultimate to get it on 1 opponent if you are talking “group build”.

Varana

And the fact that no raid group has ever required one sorc to slot Impulse to apply Minor Mangle, tells you a lot about the usefulness of this debuff. And when discussing what sorcs bring to the table, the things talked about were always the Conduit synergy, and maybe the synergy from the atro. Never has Mangle been even mentioned in these conversations.

Anti_Virus

Put minor vulnerability on mark target.