Worst Race ?

Tommy_The_Gun

So some time has passed, people changed (or not) their race with race change tokens, new meta has arrived. So, honestly, in terms of pure racial passives and their application, completely ignoring Lore, Appearance and all personal preferences & feelings towards certain races... what is the worst race in eso when it comes to passives ?

If you think that more than one race is one of the worst just vote for one and type the other in your post.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Argonians and Nords spent many years vying for the top honors of worst race in ESO. Argonians got buffed a while back, and arguably become meta for tank, healing, and magic PVP. After their recent re-balance, however, argonians came out in last. Its not that their passives are all bad on their face, but they really just arent best at anything, or really even close at this point.

I suppose you could make the argument that they are in top 3 for healing, but that's about it. They are not good damage dealers. Their are better options for both tanking and healing, and even in PVP, buffs to various other races make them a more compelling choice depending on your playstyle.

Drako_Ei

Argonians, get rid of resourceful passive and give them a proper balance

Ri_Khan

It's a tie between Bosmer and Argonians. With passives being the way they are, I wouldn't pick either of them for a new character.

MartiniDaniels

In PVE it's probably argonians, but every time I see how tail *** reset fight each 20 seconds in PVP, I can't call them weak at all.

Spizzie

Argonian is still top-notch in PvP, even for Stamina builds. You can damn near ignore sustain entirely when planning your sets because of the power in the potion passive.

The same is true of Imperial in PvP but to a slightly lesser degree. People REALLY underestimate that final passive. I've played a considerable amount of Stam DK and I can tell you that Imperial is incredible for that class. Not only does it reduce the cost of all of your abilities, including wings/Igneous/Petrify, but it reduces block, dodge roll, and break free cost. And the mag/stam return procs on cooldown without fail so long as you keep Volatile Armor up. On one of my Stam DK's, I run around with less than 1100 Stam recovery and truly never struggle for stamina, and I have enough magicka that I don't even use tri-pots to sustain the mag utility abilities.

Stx

My vote goes to argonians. Their specialty is very niche, they dont have any offensive stats, and they have low max stats. That plus to make use of their sustain you need to chug potions which I personally dont enjoy having to do.

Lughlongarm

Probably Argonians. On PTS all the regular "healing done" set items bonuses got a 100% buff, from 2% to 4%. I think Argonians 6% passive was balanced based on 2% set item(3 set items worth) with the recent buff I would like to see a buff to Argonians. They should bring back the 5% healing done/ 5% healing received.

LordTareq

Altmer for stamina characters. Not a single beneficial passive.

StormeReigns

Dunmer. Floppy tinfoil ears, the lore, their history.

Grandma

What have wood elves ever been good at in pve that other races weren't better at? even now in pvp they'rebad from what i hear.

BlueRaven

Grandma wrote: »

What have wood elves ever been good at in pve that other races weren't better at? even now in pvp they'rebad from what i hear.

Yeah, and what’s worse is they took away the one fun racial they had, improved stealth.

I should add I voted woodelf, but argonians are pretty bad too.

HappyLittleTree

High elf because every meta fangirl jumps on the bandwagon

Saxhleel Master race!!!!111eleven

But in reality Argonian because they are just good as healer and okay as tanks

Wing

I voted wood elf because argonian still has a niche, and as long as it keeps that niche it will always be relevant for *something* where as because of the amount of "stamina" races woodelf is just a worse orc. the fact that they both get the same move speed bonus, but woodelf has to dodge roll every 6 seconds? to get its move speed.

so yes, argonian may be a niche pick, but at least it has one.

wood elf is just "that stamina elf that's the worst stamina race in the game but you picked it because wood elf girls are cute"

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

If you think that more than one race is one of the worst just vote for one and type the other in your post.

Post Wrathstone there are all withing 2% in Damage and all are viable for all roles. If thats what you mean

Some are weaker in Sta builds, (Altmer, Breton) while are stronger at Magicka builds. And vice versa (Ma Redguard)

However they are all pretty balanced these days. So you need to add "None"

Ratzkifal

Tough to say for me. Argonians are mathematically way underpowered. 2% healing done doesn't even come close to 129 spell damage as a set bonus.

The tipping point is at 5000 spell damage and once you have 5000 spell damage, you don't even need 2% healing done anymore because you'll have way too much overheal at that point anyway. Altmer have 258 spell damage, so twice as much while argonians have 6% healing done. If my math is correct then at 10 000 spell damage 2% is equal to 258 divided by 3 is 3333 spell damage.

An Argonian healer needs 3333 spell damage (unrealistic for healers) to get as much use out of their racial passive as Altmer. and then they don't even have 2000 max magicka as a bonus. Their potion passive might be great, but they do have to spend gold on reagents and/or potions to even get any use of it.

Bosmer have a unique passive that grants them 3 extra skill points, because Hunter's Eye is pretty much useless for combat. Their 10% movement speed doesn't help your DPS nor sustain, but it is also the only useful part of it. The penetration is always either overkill or a dps loss because you never have enough uptime on it. Considering the high stamina cost of dodgerolling you get the most use out of your passive if you play as you would on any other race and hope that the fight forces you to dodgeroll mechanics as that is the only situation where you benefit from it. The detection is useless in PvE and in PvP it fails to shine as well, as 3m are way less ingame than you'd think and it has some weird behavior that leads to enemies getting warned of your presence before you are made aware of them, thus actively helping the enemy to NOT get detected! The only silver lining for Bosmer is that with the changes to purple food, races that can sustain on Blue food will be more competitive. That doesn't change that Hunter's Eye is useless though and if we do consider lore then the theme of stealth is completely missing from their racial passives despite being part of their core identity. Look into the Bosmer stealth thread for more info on that.

Ratzkifal

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

High elf because every meta fangirl jumps on the bandwagon

Saxhleel Master race!!!!111eleven

But in reality Argonian because they are just good as healer and okay as tanks

@HappyLittleTree They are not even good as healers. Altmer get a way higher bonus to their healing from their spell damage than Argonians as well as 1000 max magicka more. And Argonians can't compare to Bretons in terms of sustain and yet again have 1000 max magicka less. I'd say Argonian tanks are in a better spot than Argonian healers, especially because of the new Heroism potion trait you can have in Elsweyr. Then again, you can also use Heroic slash and get Heroism...
They are really not in a good spot overall

wedgebert

From a mechanics standpoint, I think it's Argonian. Their passives don't really give them much of anything except a "get out of jail free" card one every 20-30 seconds. See Agonian-racial-passives-mathematical-balance-why-healing-done-is-a-crap-stat-and-alternatives for a better explanation of why Life Mender is overvalued.

However from a lore standpoint, it's gotta be Bosmer since Bosmer do not exist in ESO anymore. In lore, Bosmer are absurdly stealthy archers who live in the tops of migratory trees. In game, they're wanna be Cirque Du Soleil members who spend their time somersaulting around like Captain Jason Nesmith because they think the rolling helps. Unfortunately for them, it just makes them tired and very easily spotted.

Still, it's saying something that even though Bosmer really only have two passives (Hunter's Eye is on par with Spell Recharge for having least amount of actual impact), they're still better than Argonian in combat.

Izaki

Grandma wrote: »

What have wood elves ever been good at in pve that other races weren't better at? even now in pvp they'rebad from what i hear.

Literally the best race for any medium armor build in PvP.

Cundu_Ertur

Izaki wrote: »

Grandma wrote: »

What have wood elves ever been good at in pve that other races weren't better at? even now in pvp they'rebad from what i hear.

Literally the best race for any medium armor build.

Dunmer and Orc can do it better 5 times out of 5. Redguard can do it better 3 times out of 5.

Anyways, voted Bosmer, but that's personal bias. Argonians got hit pretty hard with Wrathstone, too. So it's a steel cage deathmatch between the two to figure out who's the best at being the worst. I figure Bosmer will lose that fight, too -- they suck so bad now they can't even be the best at being bad.

Ratzkifal

Izaki wrote: »

Grandma wrote: »

What have wood elves ever been good at in pve that other races weren't better at? even now in pvp they'rebad from what i hear.

Literally the best race for any medium armor build.

@Izaki Except when they are not. Orcs get everything a Bosmer has (apart from recovery) and more. They sprint faster but also 12% cheaper. Bosmer need to spend stamina to get that movementspeed. The penetration in PvE is either overkill because you reduced your enemy's armor to 0 and can't go to -1500, or you made your build to have 1500 penetration too little in which case the lack of uptime results in a dps loss OR alternatively if you choose to keep your passive up all the time, your sustain is gone and so is your entire reason for being. That only leaves recovery vs weapon damage. Right now purple and gold food make it extremely easy for Orcs to get what Bosmer have without Bosmer having the same access to more weapon damage. Maybe after Elsweyr hits and purple and gold food are nerfed where it hurts Orcs (on their max stamina aka their damage scaling), maybe then Bosmer will be the best for any medium armor build. Right now they really aren't and since Grandma was talking in the present perfect progressive tense and not the future, you are wrong.

Ratzkifal

I recently posted my take on the Bosmer's Hunter's Eye passive and how it should be changed in the Bosmer stealth thread. I'll put it here too and include a new idea to fix Argonians to make them more useful, keep those happy that are happy with it AND FIX THE LORE! "Developer" comments in the spoilers. Tell me what you think.

Bosmer
Ideal Hunter:

• Reduce the radius in which you can be detected by 3m.
• Gain 750 physical penetration.
• After dodgerolling, increase your movement speed by 10% for 6seconds.

Permanent penetration is better than conditional penetration as you can calculate better with it. It also scales better with crit chance, which improves Bosmer synergy with bows but doesn't shoehorn them into bow builds.
The amount of penetration must obviously be further balanced as I have no idea how much dps 750 penetration really is. I felt that 1500 would probably be too much if it was permanently active. Due to the penetration cap, that Orcs can obviously reach already, this isn't threatening the balance as much as weapon damage would be. The name is obviously subject to change. I was also considering calling it "nimble hunter". An "eye" has nothing to do with dodgeroll movement speed anyway. I do think that nobody would mind this change too much though as stealth reduction is undeniably more universally useful than detection, permanent penetration is more reliable and the dodgeroll gotta go fast stays without shoehorning into those roll builds everyone hates.

Argonians
Resourceful

• Gain 1000 max health
• Whenever you drink a potion you restore 4000 Health, Magicka, and Stamina

Adaptive Resistance

• Gain 2000 max magicka
• You are immune to the diseased status effect.
• Upon taking disease damage gain 2310 disease resistance or upon taking poison damage gain 2310 poison resistance for 10 seconds. This effect can only occur once every 10 seconds.

Life Mender

• Gain 258 spell and weapon damage on all healing abilities
• Gain 129 spell and weapon damage for 6 seconds upon removing a negative effect from yourself.

The potion passive seems quite popular and ties in with the Argonian affinity for Alchemy, but in order to not make one passive too strong compared to the others, I moved the 1k health onto Resourceful to buff the magicka to 2000, which is now on their resistance passive, similar to the way Bosmer have it.
Due to lore reasons, Argonians need both poison and disease resistance, but ZOS felt like Bosmer and Argonians were clashing in that area too much. The way I attempted to solve it was to emphasize the adaptiveness of Argonians to their surrounding but leaving a window to exploit for smart players that engage with poison/disease damage but then mostly deal the other. The immunity to the diseased status effect felt a little bit more important and needed to be separate from the conditional as they could otherwise get effected first, making the immunity afterwards pointless.
Lastly, 258 spell damage are mathematically way more powerfull than 6% healing done, but at the same time Argonians are not supposed to interfere with Altmer's spot as a dps race, hence why they only get a permanent bonus to healing.
However they do get a bonus to weapon damage for healing as well, which separates them from Altmer. Their potion passive makes them not completely useless on stamina builds, and the stamina side of things has been a bit lacking, but at the same time I am not sure if they should have max magicka and max stamina at the same time, like Dunmer and Khajiit. Argonians were always leaning towards the magical side a bit, which is why I decided to keep the magicka, which some stamina builds can still appreciate.
To push Argonians before Dunmer in healing matters but also benefit their dps without messing up the class balance, they gain a conditional 129 spell and weapon damage upon removing a negative effect. This puts Argonians in a unique spot among healers and in pvp as they benefit from cleansing abilities a bit more than other races. It encourages them to use these abilities without making them mandatory to benefit from the passive. I feel this is very in line with their regenerative abilities as it encourages the use of them. That part of the ability could potentially stack, depending on how it performs but maybe it also need a cooldown because it may be too strong. I wouldn't know without testing it first.

Raudgrani

Despite some hard feelings, I can't say there's any bad race anymore. Every race can't do everything of course, but in their right element they can be fine. Only one I feel I needed to change was Imperial. Argonians got worse of course (maybe rightfully so), and Bosmer got very locked into the rollerblade meta, where they can shine of course. But for anything else, they are probably useless now.

wedgebert

Raudgrani wrote: »

Despite some hard feelings, I can't say there's any bad race anymore. Every race can't do everything of course, but in their right element they can be fine. Only one I feel I needed to change was Imperial. Argonians got worse of course (maybe rightfully so), and Bosmer got very locked into the rollerblade meta, where they can shine of course. But for anything else, they are probably useless now.

Can they shine though? That speed buff is pretty unnoticable (Orcs can just sprint along side you for even less stamina usage) and the damage from the bonus pen is even more unnoticeable unless you don't have any base penetration.

Raudgrani

wedgebert wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Despite some hard feelings, I can't say there's any bad race anymore. Every race can't do everything of course, but in their right element they can be fine. Only one I feel I needed to change was Imperial. Argonians got worse of course (maybe rightfully so), and Bosmer got very locked into the rollerblade meta, where they can shine of course. But for anything else, they are probably useless now.

Can they shine though? That speed buff is pretty unnoticable (Orcs can just sprint along side you for even less stamina usage) and the damage from the bonus pen is even more unnoticeable unless you don't have any base penetration.

Yes they can. If I can feel really good about myself with a Bosmer, they can't be that bad.

If you can't shake off an orc (typically a stamDK or stamsorc), I'm sorry to say that "L2P" thing, but I really have to.

Izaki

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Grandma wrote: »

What have wood elves ever been good at in pve that other races weren't better at? even now in pvp they'rebad from what i hear.

Literally the best race for any medium armor build.

@Izaki Except when they are not. Orcs get everything a Bosmer has (apart from recovery) and more. They sprint faster but also 12% cheaper. Bosmer need to spend stamina to get that movementspeed. The penetration in PvE is either overkill because you reduced your enemy's armor to 0 and can't go to -1500, or you made your build to have 1500 penetration too little in which case the lack of uptime results in a dps loss OR alternatively if you choose to keep your passive up all the time, your sustain is gone and so is your entire reason for being. That only leaves recovery vs weapon damage. Right now purple and gold food make it extremely easy for Orcs to get what Bosmer have without Bosmer having the same access to more weapon damage. Maybe after Elsweyr hits and purple and gold food are nerfed where it hurts Orcs (on their max stamina aka their damage scaling), maybe then Bosmer will be the best for any medium armor build. Right now they really aren't and since Grandma was talking in the present perfect progressive tense and not the future, you are wrong.

@Ratzkifal

Obviously talking about PvP so your PvE argument goes straight to the trash can. Orcs is BiS for PvE. We all know that and we aren't disputing that. Dark Elf is basically the same though since 175 Max Stamina barely changes anything (and they are less ugly).

About Orcs using Gold or Purple food to get recovery, sure, but that's not enough on a medium armor build. You can't just run around with 1.5k recovery and consider that you've got enough sustain. You need 1 sustain set (like the Battlefield Acrobat or Shacklebreaker or Bone Pirate or whatever) and at least 1 recovery glyph. On a Bosmer, you can drop either of those two, which means you can build for more damage in the end. Weapon damage is really easy to come by, especially on item sets which 99% of the time will give you more than the Orc passives. Compensating weapon damage is easier than compensating recovery.
Roll Dodging is the primary defense of any medium armor build, so in consequence, your 1.5k penetration is almost always up.
The 10% speed bonus applies to when you're not sprinting too, which is great for when you're actually being agressive (because obviously, you get 10% more speed to run around that dude who tries to Dizzy Swing you without having to sprint). For Nightblades, the 10% extra speed also works in Cloak.

So no, I am not wrong, at least not vis-à-vis the arguments that you're presenting. Unless of course you're talking about organized group builds where you don't have to be self sufficient in terms of sustain, in which case, yes Orcs might be better. But in most situations where you don't have a group throwing you Shards or Orbs from time to time, Bosmer is better on medium armor builds.

BlueRaven

Izaki wrote: »

Grandma wrote: »

What have wood elves ever been good at in pve that other races weren't better at? even now in pvp they'rebad from what i hear.

Literally the best race for any medium armor build.

Citation needed.

I believe you are incorrect. Here is my citation about PvE Stamina Damage dealers.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-race-guide-elder-scrolls-online/

"Stamina Damage Dealer

Best choice: Orc, Redguard, Dark Elf, Kahjiit

As a stamina damage dealer Orcs have the best stats, followed up by races like Redguards, Dark Elves and Khajiits. All are viable choices, so you can pick whichever race you like the most."

Notice that bosmer are not mentioned, so at "best" they are 5th.

In the PvP builds they are simply listed along side the other stamina races.

So in the end bosmer have been turned into a "one-trick-pony" race.

When you pick a bosmer, AND you PvP, AND if you get the right gear, AND you play them in a particular niche way, they work! Fantastic!

But if you want to PvE Tank or DPS, or not play this niche build, then they are not recommended. Maybe ZOS should put a big warning sign that the race is "INTENDED FOR A PARTICULAR PLAYSTYLE IN PVP ONLY" in bold red letters at the race selection screen. Or maybe just maybe, they can make them work for BOTH PvE and PvP.

Crazy, I know, because that would be recognizing that this game somehow does not revolve around PvP only.

Ratzkifal

Grandma wrote: »

What have wood elves ever been good at in pve that other races weren't better at? even now in pvp they'rebad from what i hear.

Izaki wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Grandma wrote: »

What have wood elves ever been good at in pve that other races weren't better at? even now in pvp they'rebad from what i hear.

Literally the best race for any medium armor build.

@Izaki Except when they are not. Orcs get everything a Bosmer has (apart from recovery) and more. They sprint faster but also 12% cheaper. Bosmer need to spend stamina to get that movementspeed. The penetration in PvE is either overkill because you reduced your enemy's armor to 0 and can't go to -1500, or you made your build to have 1500 penetration too little in which case the lack of uptime results in a dps loss OR alternatively if you choose to keep your passive up all the time, your sustain is gone and so is your entire reason for being. That only leaves recovery vs weapon damage. Right now purple and gold food make it extremely easy for Orcs to get what Bosmer have without Bosmer having the same access to more weapon damage. Maybe after Elsweyr hits and purple and gold food are nerfed where it hurts Orcs (on their max stamina aka their damage scaling), maybe then Bosmer will be the best for any medium armor build. Right now they really aren't and since Grandma was talking in the present perfect progressive tense and not the future, you are wrong.

@Ratzkifal

Obviously talking about PvP so your PvE argument goes straight to the trash can. Orcs is BiS for PvE. We all know that and we aren't disputing that. Dark Elf is basically the same though since 175 Max Stamina barely changes anything (and they are less ugly).

About Orcs using Gold or Purple food to get recovery, sure, but that's not enough on a medium armor build. You can't just run around with 1.5k recovery and consider that you've got enough sustain. You need 1 sustain set (like the Battlefield Acrobat or Shacklebreaker or Bone Pirate or whatever) and at least 1 recovery glyph. On a Bosmer, you can drop either of those two, which means you can build for more damage in the end. Weapon damage is really easy to come by, especially on item sets which 99% of the time will give you more than the Orc passives. Compensating weapon damage is easier than compensating recovery.
Roll Dodging is the primary defense of any medium armor build, so in consequence, your 1.5k penetration is almost always up.
The 10% speed bonus applies to when you're not sprinting too, which is great for when you're actually being agressive (because obviously, you get 10% more speed to run around that dude who tries to Dizzy Swing you without having to sprint). For Nightblades, the 10% extra speed also works in Cloak.

So no, I am not wrong, at least not vis-à-vis the arguments that you're presenting. Unless of course you're talking about organized group builds where you don't have to be self sufficient in terms of sustain, in which case, yes Orcs might be better. But in most situations where you don't have a group throwing you Shards or Orbs from time to time, Bosmer is better on medium armor builds.

@Izaki Except that Grandma was clearly talking about PvE, so the foundation for your entire line of argumentation goes into the trash can because you were talking about the wrong thing the entire time. I had to reiterate my entire post several times to stick strictly with PvE only as you were supposedly talking about PvE.
The reason why I don't think your argument about sets granting weapon damage holds is that there are usually some BiS sets that everyone will try to stick to with only a handful alternatives. If the 5th item passive is the important part, like Relequen, then you can't choose your 2nd to 4th set bonus. Orcs and Bosmer will usually end up with the same boni and are less flexible on that. They are however very flexable on enchants and food. Enchants can't close the gap for Bosmer, but food does a pretty good job for Orcs.

Since you are talking about PvP though, let me point out that Orcs get the same movement speed bonus as Bosmer do except they have 100% uptime and 12% reduced sprint cost. Sprinting is very important in PvP as you probably know. In combat you can't ride and if your enemy runs, you have to run after them unless you are close enough to spam gapclosers. The only advantage Bosmer have is that after a dodgeroll they can walk faster than Orcs walk. They sprint at the same speed and with greater stamina expenditure.
The Orcish health passive + heal is a lot more versatile in PvP too as Bosmer only work well against, Wardens and StamDks. Orcs have something against every type of damage dealer except perhaps disease which reduces their healing, but does so against Bosmer too, which makes them still better.
The penetration is a lot better in PvP obviously, no question about that, although trying to get it up every time you execute your combo puts stress on your sustain. Apart from duels, fights rarely last long enough for your lack of sustain to matter on Orcs. I play medium armor Stamplar on a Dunmer and even without using repentance, it's quite easy to keep my stamina pool at an acceptable level. EXCEPT when I'm playing Battlegrounds and we have to sprint to an objective to get there first. That or excessive blocking are usually the only thing that drains so much stamina that you can run out on a stam build and Orcs have something for the running and regen is 0 even for Bosmer when blocking. And don't forget that Orc's passive buffs self heals too.

Izaki

Grandma wrote: »

What have wood elves ever been good at in pve that other races weren't better at? even now in pvp they'rebad from what i hear.

@Ratzkifal Wasn't "clearly talking about PvE". Actually, Grandma clearly mentioned PvP.
Plus, my comment clearly implied that it was PvP related, since no stamina build uses anything other than medium armor in PvE and since magicka classes don't use Bosmer. ("Literally the best race for any medium armor build" was the comment I'm talking about, so you don't have to scroll).

Before I start my reasoning and replying to your points, I'll just say that the requirement for dodging isn't really a problem for medium builds, you will be dodging 24/7 in open world.

The point about 258 weapon damage giving you bigger heals is kinda nullified by the fact that you can compensate it with item sets on a Bosmer (whereas on an Orc, you'd have to do the opposite obviously). Like I said earlier, its easier to compensate weapon damage than recovery. However, for the sake of this argument, let's say that 258 weapon damage vs 258 recovery nullify themselves since you can get almost the same numbers with Infused enchants. So if we take the exact same build with two exact same sets and the same monster set, etc. etc. etc. EXCEPT for the enchants (Bosmer with 3 Infused Weapon and Orismer with 2 Infused Weapon Damage and 1 Infused Recovery). So in other words: 258 weapon damage = 258 Stam Recovery.

If all you do is chase after people in PvP, then yes, your argument on the speed passives is valid. Outside of chasing people however... When you're actually in an active fight where you're the one being chased by a few people and are kiting around rocks and trees, I doubt you're gonna be sprinting much since you have to be healing/buffing/attacking ALL the time, on every GCD. Jogging faster is important basically everywhere at all times, whereas Sprinting faster is important in a few scenarios. Bosmer can do both, even though they have to spend more Stamina on sprinting, they can still sprint as fast as Orcs. Orcs can't jog as fast as Bosmer. So to me, the Bosmer wins on this one since its more versatile. So 10% movement speed > 10% sprint speed and 12% sprint cost reduction.

Hmm... If you compare the single passives side by side without taking the other passives into consideration then yes, the Heal + Health is better than Poison Resistances. But since we've kind of deconstructed the passives in the following manner: Speed passive vs Speed passive and Weapon Damage passive vs Stam Recovery passive So if we're looking at the bigger picture, I'd trade that Heal + Health passive for the Penetration and Poison Resists personally. Health is very easy to get while Penetration is one of the hardest, especially in BGs and no-CP.
The Poison Resistances are little plus and are cool to have against Snipe spammers who are lurking everywhere, against the two classes you mentioned and Stam Necros next patch who will also be doing almost exclusively Poison Damage. Sure the Poison Resists aren't amazing or even very useful, but that Penetration makes up for it. This is why I think that Penetration + Poison Resists > Max Health + Heal.

Both have the same Max Stamina passive so... 2000 Max Stamina = 2000 Max Stamina

And as for the last passive to top it off: 10% less fall damage > 10% crafting inspiration. Falling and jumping off things in PvP is part of kiting which is a massive part of open world combat. Crafting inspiration... no point is saying anything about crafting inspiration, is there?

And for a bonus: Bosmer look better. Orcs only look good in towels or wedding dresses with lots of makeup and... other troll worthy things.

So from these comparisons, I have to say that Bosmer just have more versatile passives for medium armor builds.

However, if we're talking about the best race for both PvE and PvP on one character, then Dunmer would be the best. In PvE Bosmer are crap. Yes. Never said the opposite.

PS: No point in wearing medium armor in duels, everyone and their entire family (and even their pets) play in heavy because its just so much better for dueling.

Izaki

BlueRaven wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Grandma wrote: »

What have wood elves ever been good at in pve that other races weren't better at? even now in pvp they'rebad from what i hear.

Literally the best race for any medium armor build.

Citation needed.

I believe you are incorrect. Here is my citation about PvE Stamina Damage dealers.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-race-guide-elder-scrolls-online/

"Stamina Damage Dealer

Best choice: Orc, Redguard, Dark Elf, Kahjiit

As a stamina damage dealer Orcs have the best stats, followed up by races like Redguards, Dark Elves and Khajiits. All are viable choices, so you can pick whichever race you like the most."

Notice that bosmer are not mentioned, so at "best" they are 5th.

In the PvP builds they are simply listed along side the other stamina races.

So in the end bosmer have been turned into a "one-trick-pony" race.

When you pick a bosmer, AND you PvP, AND if you get the right gear, AND you play them in a particular niche way, they work! Fantastic!

But if you want to PvE Tank or DPS, or not play this niche build, then they are not recommended. Maybe ZOS should put a big warning sign that the race is "INTENDED FOR A PARTICULAR PLAYSTYLE IN PVP ONLY" in bold red letters at the race selection screen. Or maybe just maybe, they can make them work for BOTH PvE and PvP.

Crazy, I know, because that would be recognizing that this game somehow does not revolve around PvP only.

@BlueRaven
Read my comment above this one.

Medium armor builds aren't niche. They are one of 3 ways of building your character for PvP.

And I am not a PvPer. You may get that impression from this one single comment, but I assure you, the only time I PvP is when I need the Assault/Support skills or whenever I have some time to waste and can't be bothered doing a vMA run. Literally when I have nothing better to do. I PvE, I raid 90% of the time when I'm in game. So I know very well that the game doesn't revolve around PvP.

Also, blindingly quoting another player and not even providing any of your own reasoning... I mean... You based "on what is listed first and last"... Like... I don't have words.

Ratzkifal

Izaki wrote: »

In PvE Bosmer are crap. Yes. Never said the opposite.

@Izaki
Good that we can agree on that. This is more or less the biggest reason why I think that Orcs are way superior. Bosmer can only do one type of content well while Orcs can do both.
Since I don't exactly know how armor prevents damage from happening, I can't really tell how much bonus health 2310 poison resistance equates to. But for the walking vs sprint, I'd disagree. I only find myself walking over running when I use major expedition and some builds just don't allow for that (stamplar). When I am in a hurry of course. When I am not in a hurry, I won't dodgeroll to get those additional 10% though.
Anyway, I think we have pretty much made our points now. Since you have a different view on things, I'd like to know what you think of my suggestion further up to change Hunter's Eye (and the Argonian passives if you have an opinion on that).

Link is here.

Ratzkifal wrote: »