Nightblade 4.5% Heal?

Lab3360

efster wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Magma Shell alone makes the DK the best tank, especially in 1T 3DD hardmodes.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I can tank 1T 3DD vDLC HMs on my nightblade right now, no magma shell needed. And that's because I have Dark Cloak - I know I can get 32% of my max HP back in 3 seconds and I can manage my health and resources around that. With the nerf, it's going to be nearly impossible to do this without investing a lot of bar space into healing abilities, because with my health pool, cloak will heal me for about the same amount per second as Leeching Strikes. This is exactly why NB tanks are pissed. We finally had decent survivability in difficult PVE content, not needing to rely on healer support in encounters where you simply must outheal incoming damage by yourself (and I don't mean 3DD vDLC HMs, since those are technically designed to require a healer; I mean encounters like Ozara backroom, Serpent backroom, tanking the Z'Maja shade in the portal in vCR, tanking z'Maja on vCR+123, etc), and ZOS is about to ruin that. No tank has the bar space for 3+ healing skills, but ZOS is forcing NBs into doing just that.

Even three healing skills will not get you out of trouble as a tank when they are all hots

Iron_Blurr

BrianLovesLisa wrote: »

Oh look a thread about NightBlades crying over a nerf, REMEMBER WHEN Sorcs did it. Ah good times. I think it is about time they toppled the "best class in the game".

But this is a nerf to nightblade tank self heals. Sorcs clanfear is a huge self heal. Wardens get arctic wind. Dk gets green dragon blood. And templars have tons of burst heals. Nightblade tanks already have to deal with their primary heal being a hot but making it a weaker hot is terrible.

lokulin

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

BrianLovesLisa wrote: »

Oh look a thread about NightBlades crying over a nerf, REMEMBER WHEN Sorcs did it. Ah good times. I think it is about time they toppled the "best class in the game".

But this is a nerf to nightblade tank self heals. Sorcs clanfear is a huge self heal. Wardens get arctic wind. Dk gets green dragon blood. And templars have tons of burst heals. Nightblade tanks already have to deal with their primary heal being a hot but making it a weaker hot is terrible.

The funny thing is I am hardly crying. I have a tank of each class. All a change like this means is that I'll be running my night blade tank even less often, meaning one less tank in the queue, meaning more of a wait for dps. And I am probably not the only one to think the same.

Lab3360

lokulin wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

BrianLovesLisa wrote: »

Oh look a thread about NightBlades crying over a nerf, REMEMBER WHEN Sorcs did it. Ah good times. I think it is about time they toppled the "best class in the game".

But this is a nerf to nightblade tank self heals. Sorcs clanfear is a huge self heal. Wardens get arctic wind. Dk gets green dragon blood. And templars have tons of burst heals. Nightblade tanks already have to deal with their primary heal being a hot but making it a weaker hot is terrible.

The funny thing is I am hardly crying. I have a tank of each class. All a change like this means is that I'll be running my night blade tank even less often, meaning one less tank in the queue, meaning more of a wait for dps. And I am probably not the only one to think the same.

Well, I guess that was dev intent.

Congratulations Dev Team.

efster

Lab3360 wrote: »

efster wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Magma Shell alone makes the DK the best tank, especially in 1T 3DD hardmodes.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I can tank 1T 3DD vDLC HMs on my nightblade right now, no magma shell needed. And that's because I have Dark Cloak - I know I can get 32% of my max HP back in 3 seconds and I can manage my health and resources around that. With the nerf, it's going to be nearly impossible to do this without investing a lot of bar space into healing abilities, because with my health pool, cloak will heal me for about the same amount per second as Leeching Strikes. This is exactly why NB tanks are pissed. We finally had decent survivability in difficult PVE content, not needing to rely on healer support in encounters where you simply must outheal incoming damage by yourself (and I don't mean 3DD vDLC HMs, since those are technically designed to require a healer; I mean encounters like Ozara backroom, Serpent backroom, tanking the Z'Maja shade in the portal in vCR, tanking z'Maja on vCR+123, etc), and ZOS is about to ruin that. No tank has the bar space for 3+ healing skills, but ZOS is forcing NBs into doing just that.

Even three healing skills will not get you out of trouble as a tank when they are all hots

It's definitely not ideal, but if you overload your bar with various hots, between path, cloak, leeching, and strife you could technically be getting ~5K/s+ (depending on your mag pool) hots (more if you add vigor), but who the hell has the bar space to tank like that? We'd just be spamming HOTs in between taunts & maim, which is fine for fights where you're the solo OT just holding adds while the main tank has the boss, but when you're expected to maintain taunt, crusher, alkosh, maim, and minor vuln (new in elsweyr), all while managing your own resources via sword/staff heavies, forget it. I guess the devs intend for every nightblade to have a complicated rotation, regardless of role.

Lab3360

Alucardo wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

4.5% of Max Health per second for 8 seconds.
At 30k health, you'll get 1350 health per second, capping out at 10-11k health heal, before any other factors are taken into consideration.

That's painfully low for a self healing ability, much less a heal that was designed for NB Tanks. It's a HUGE step back for them since the heal won't get us out of a bad moment should it come to it and even if ZOS makes the Minor Protection buff last the full 8 seconds, it won't help as much as it currenly does.

Guess I'm retiring my NB Tank, AGAIN!!!

Actually I started seeing non tanks using it, especially considering health is higher these days. It was essentially like having 2 vigors running at the same time, with the added bonus of minor protection. On a class with the highest single target damage... yeah, fun.
Truth be told it was still more fun to fight than chasing someone around with detect pots.

Thank you for the post

ShadowKyuubi

Just a follow up to some of the points about trying to justify the nerf to the burst healing of dark cloak and using Sap essence as the burst heal instead because of the buff. There is really only one point I can make. Sap essence requires enemies, it is a Sap Skill, just like there are Sap armor sets. The entire Sap tank is not a novel idea, it has been around for a long time. It works really well for mob fights and dungeons. It is absolute garbage in boss fights. The idea of a sap tank revolves around multiple enemies so to that you can get better heals. If there is just a single enemy, you know, like most boss fights (with the exception of really only the craglorn trials they tend to have a decent amount of adds during boss fights, but the off-tank usually handles them and not the main tank) the sap tank fall apart in terms of burst healing without a good class ability to back it up. So, whetever solution comes from this discussion will not be to run Sap essence as a burst heal, because it costs a lot and is garbage on single targets. Also, as it is a skill it will scale from max resource and spell/weapon damage...well I am a tank and yah know...I don't have a lot of any of that. So....yeah....sap essence sucks for boss fights

Lab3360

ShadowKyuubi wrote: »

Just a follow up to some of the points about trying to justify the nerf to the burst healing of dark cloak and using Sap essence as the burst heal instead because of the buff. There is really only one point I can make. Sap essence requires enemies, it is a Sap Skill, just like there are Sap armor sets. The entire Sap tank is not a novel idea, it has been around for a long time. It works really well for mob fights and dungeons. It is absolute garbage in boss fights. The idea of a sap tank revolves around multiple enemies so to that you can get better heals. If there is just a single enemy, you know, like most boss fights (with the exception of really only the craglorn trials they tend to have a decent amount of adds during boss fights, but the off-tank usually handles them and not the main tank) the sap tank fall apart in terms of burst healing without a good class ability to back it up. So, whetever solution comes from this discussion will not be to run Sap essence as a burst heal, because it costs a lot and is garbage on single targets. Also, as it is a skill it will scale from max resource and spell/weapon damage...well I am a tank and yah know...I don't have a lot of any of that. So....yeah....sap essence sucks for boss fights

Sap is entirely a fail of an idea. There is no way that would compensate for a burst heal.

Juhasow

likecats wrote: »

If they add a 2s snare removal on it, plenty will slot it.

With race against time having 4 seconds snare removal I doubt that plenty of people would slot dark cloak for half of that.