Snipe change?

Beardimus

Marcus_Thracius wrote: »

always funny to see ppl want to nerf stuff they cant addapt to in pvp

Lol, good one, its bugged. How do you adapt to being dead, with zero warning and wondering how 4-5 high you at once?

SirAndy

Pallio wrote: »

Snipe change says reduction in shot time, 1 sec from 1.1. With this change snipe is losing 25% dmg? Shoots 10% faster, with 25% less dmg.. what?

Not sure how math works where you come from but a reduction from 1.1s to 1s is *not* 10% faster ...

templesus

Amazing change ZOS, keep up the good work.

Vapirko

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

From PTS Notes about Snipe: "Increased the travel speed of the arrow to put it in line with other projectiles."

How does this work/look now?

I've heard its just as bad if not worse than it is on live.

But this is good change for both sides, no? Person which attacks can reliably and faster put first hit, while person who is attacked will receive it faster and turns on defensive and so there is less room to receive several consecutive snipes due to lag?

Idk yet I’ve not been hit with it on PTS. I’ve just heard from a few people that it’s no fun. I don’t think we will be able to assess if the lag has been fixed until it goes live.

SodanTok

This ability didnt get anything. If you are jumping in joy because it got nerfed you are very much whats wrong with ESO. The ability wasnt strong before, never. Strong abilities get used and abused by strong people as much or more than 'weak'. You could not 1vX with it, you could barely barely duel with it and you almost couldnt fight with it in any combat where you dont get the luxury of high wall or 20 man meat shield or at least cloak (1 class out of 5... 6).

They didnt fix or make it better in any of those situations, they probably didnt even fix the desync bug. They just took it and put it to ground. Something like that should not be celebrated. If people were far less biased and actually cared about good combat system not just making sure whatever they dont use isnt strong enough to kill them, they would be complaining about how lazy and bad this change was. The ability needed rework, not nerf.

Feanor

@SodanTok

The way I see it is that it lost Major Defile for PvP reasons (justified seeing that ZOS is making major debuffs more rare lately) and the damage for PvE reasons. Because, essentially, no one cares about if a faster cast time results in a higher sustained DPS in a PvP setting. It’s all about burst there, and the .1 second won’t make a huge difference here.

I don’t think ZOS can fix the desync issues given how long they have been there. Snipe in its current and future iteration will stay a tool people will complain about because of its design and the perceived mindset attached to it (which is cowardly sniper).

DoonerSeraph

SodanTok wrote: »

This ability didnt get anything. If you are jumping in joy because it got nerfed you are very much whats wrong with ESO. The ability wasnt strong before, never. Strong abilities get used and abused by strong people as much or more than 'weak'. You could not 1vX with it, you could barely barely duel with it and you almost couldnt fight with it in any combat where you dont get the luxury of high wall or 20 man meat shield or at least cloak (1 class out of 5... 6).

They didnt fix or make it better in any of those situations, they probably didnt even fix the desync bug. They just took it and put it to ground. Something like that should not be celebrated. If people were far less biased and actually cared about good combat system not just making sure whatever they dont use isnt strong enough to kill them, they would be complaining about how lazy and bad this change was. The ability needed rework, not nerf.

Exactly, ZOS needed to fix the desync bug, but since they can't (being either due to unwillingness or incompetence), they just nuked the skill so no one ever uses it, "problem solved".

There are people jumping in joy to this just out of pure spite. But who knows what is the next thing to be "balanced", right?

SodanTok

Feanor wrote: »

The way I see it is that it lost Major Defile for PvP reasons (justified seeing that ZOS is making major debuffs more rare lately) and the damage for PvE reasons. Because, essentially, no one cares about if a faster cast time results in a higher sustained DPS in a PvP setting. It’s all about burst there, and the .1 second won’t make a huge difference here.

I don’t think ZOS can fix the desync issues given how long they have been there. Snipe in its current and future iteration will stay a tool people will complain about because of its design and the perceived mindset attached to it (which is cowardly sniper).

The changes were reasonable on its own, but they threw balancing out of the window. There is no "we made it minor defile because major defile is so potent but now its also 500 stam cheaper" or something like that. There is "we made it minor defile because it is potent buff and the ability already has other things". They took it and made it worse in pve and pvp.

The skill was disliked by nearly everyone for over 3 years. Even people using it disliked it. But they were all ignored and the first time in 3 years ZoS finally gives some attention to this outdated underused (on high level) skill in PVE and PVP it is to make it worse in both those modes. Some people wanted it to be better burst ability (you know, more skillful, less buggy), others better spammable. After this patch its weaker in both of these departments.
It just seems so ridiculous.

templesus

Just want to reiterate how great of a change this was. Sitting in the back of a zerg spamming snipe then cloaking is a playstyle that shouldn’t even exist in the game. Any and all nerfs to the ability are much appreciated!

Jeezye

Just throwing in here that I as a magblade in light armor with very limited mitigation could not be ganked by a stamblade with the classic snipe ambush incap combo. He tried different setups and I was only applying hots pre-emptively, be as long as I could break the CC he couldnt burst me. To me this is a change in the right direction, as snipe’s Burst was too much on live.

Edited for typos

Prior_priest

templesus wrote: »

Just want to reiterate how great of a change this was. Sitting in the back of a zerg spamming snipe then cloaking is a playstyle that shouldn’t even exist in the game. Any and all nerfs to the ability are much appreciated!

Note that stamblades are getting nerfed aswell so the playstyle you dislike will be rarer to see after the update. The problem is that no other class will use the ability in the whole game content (pvp and pve) after the nerfs. As I said, I played with Lethal arrow ability on stamsorc (live server) and Its not overpowered, really (cp810, gold weapons, well built build).

I think that the nature of this ability should stay as I wrote in the previous comment, major defile is important in pvp. We dont want to see more guys in Heavy armor using reverberating bash as only source of major defile.
The pvp needs more action, no more heavy armor self healing guys fighting each other resulting in 1 hour boring duel. (I played this way than switched to the medium armor and I can tell you the difference of joy which it provides for me)

Gilvoth

im an archer.
there are many of us.
you can insult and bash and degrade us, we cant stop you, but remember it is against the rules and against the terms of service in ESO
i play an archer here in eso just as i have in ALL the mmo's i have ever played now for almost 2 decades!
it is not over powered and we are not trash!

Jeezye

Gilvoth wrote: »

im an archer.
there are many of us.
you can insult and bash and degrade us, we cant stop you, but remember it is against the rules and against the terms of service in ESO
i play an archer here in eso just as i have in ALL the mmo's i have ever played now for almost 2 decades!
it is not over powered and we are not trash!

I have played archer style pvp builds too and they are definitly viable. non of them had snipe even slotted on the bar, so if anyone relies on snipe for ther "archer playstyle" I just have to say git gud. Barely have I seen an archer that actually made use of the light attack stacking passive of bow, hardly have I seen someone run imbue weapons, which is an amazing spammable for ranged weapons. Snipe is for noobs and burst combos, my 2 cents. Sorry if I'M bashing someone lol

Gilvoth

snipe is in the skill line of bow, as it is in every mmo i have ever played.
and its not your place to belittle others playstyle.

Feanor

Gilvoth wrote: »

snipe is in the skill line of bow, as it is in every mmo i have ever played.
and its not your place to belittle others playstyle.

Spamming Snipe isn’t a play style though.

Dalsinthus

SodanTok wrote: »

This ability didnt get anything. If you are jumping in joy because it got nerfed you are very much whats wrong with ESO. The ability wasnt strong before, never. Strong abilities get used and abused by strong people as much or more than 'weak'. You could not 1vX with it, you could barely barely duel with it and you almost couldnt fight with it in any combat where you dont get the luxury of high wall or 20 man meat shield or at least cloak (1 class out of 5... 6).

They didnt fix or make it better in any of those situations, they probably didnt even fix the desync bug. They just took it and put it to ground. Something like that should not be celebrated. If people were far less biased and actually cared about good combat system not just making sure whatever they dont use isnt strong enough to kill them, they would be complaining about how lazy and bad this change was. The ability needed rework, not nerf.

I could not agree more. Snipe needed a top to bottom rework to make it a useful dps skill and address the desync issue. Instead we got a major nerf and health desyncs will likely still be a thing.

goldenarcher1

Gonna spam snipe like never before when this goes live.

cpuScientist

hesobad wrote: »

Pallio wrote: »

Snipe change says reduction in shot time, 1 sec from 1.1. With this change snipe is losing 25% dmg? Shoots 10% faster, with 25% less dmg.. what?

Really what we need to be praising about this change is the removal of major defile from Lethal Arrow!! Really need to thank the Nine for that one!

More like thank the @Nighn_9 for that.

Rikumaru

Icky wrote: »

Marcus_Thracius wrote: »

always funny to see ppl want to nerf stuff they cant addapt to in pvp

Exactly. People didn't want to slot purge to cleanse major defile so it got removed from a bunch of stuff. Major defile was probably one of the only reasons my warden was able to die in pvp if I didn't cleanse it soon enough lol, and he is in 5 light 2 heavy lolol.

Yo, did you just say slot purge to counter major defile from snipe? Um?

These changes are clearly focused at the people who were running 1 shot snipe gank builds, if they delete such builds then good. It's super dumb you get players who hide from you until you are busy fighting other people and then attempt to 1 shot you from stealth using snipe. If they fail, no problem just run away, spam cloak and reenter stealth to try again. Now you guys need to play PvP too like everyone else.

My condolences to the PvEers who used this for DPS.

Gilvoth wrote: »

snipe is in the skill line of bow, as it is in every mmo i have ever played.
and its not your place to belittle others playstyle.

But what about those pesky "shield spammers"?

Gilvoth

Rikumaru wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

Marcus_Thracius wrote: »

always funny to see ppl want to nerf stuff they cant addapt to in pvp

Exactly. People didn't want to slot purge to cleanse major defile so it got removed from a bunch of stuff. Major defile was probably one of the only reasons my warden was able to die in pvp if I didn't cleanse it soon enough lol, and he is in 5 light 2 heavy lolol.

Yo, did you just say slot purge to counter major defile from snipe? Um?

These changes are clearly focused at the people who were running 1 shot snipe gank builds, if they delete such builds then good. It's super dumb you get players who hide from you until you are busy fighting other people and then attempt to 1 shot you from stealth using snipe. If they fail, no problem just run away, spam cloak and reenter stealth to try again. Now you guys need to play PvP too like everyone else.

My condolences to the PvEers who used this for DPS.

Gilvoth wrote: »

snipe is in the skill line of bow, as it is in every mmo i have ever played.
and its not your place to belittle others playstyle.

But what about those pesky "shield spammers"?

the shield stacking sorcerers? thats a bit off topic but i will answer that.
they removed the shield breaker set, so it needs an alternative to shield stacking sorcerers. i do agree with you on that subject, but it is a completely different subject and situation about snipe, those are 2 completely different subjects.

Prior_priest

Rikumaru wrote: »

Yo, did you just say slot purge to counter major defile from snipe? Um?

These changes are clearly focused at the people who were running 1 shot snipe gank builds, if they delete such builds then good. It's super dumb you get players who hide from you until you are busy fighting other people and then attempt to 1 shot you from stealth using snipe. If they fail, no problem just run away, spam cloak and reenter stealth to try again. Now you guys need to play PvP too like everyone else.

My condolences to the PvEers who used this for DPS.

Yeah, but dont you think that removal of Major defile is ridiculous since no other weapon ability except reverberating bash provides it? Look at the Solar flare magicka ability (templar) it will still provide Major defile after the nerf so why not the Snipe? Btw. Im kinda ok with damage reduction change.

Seems to me that magicka builds are getting stronger each patch

Marcus_Thracius

goldenarcher1 wrote: »

Gonna spam snipe like never before when this goes live.

templesus

Prior_priest wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Just want to reiterate how great of a change this was. Sitting in the back of a zerg spamming snipe then cloaking is a playstyle that shouldn’t even exist in the game. Any and all nerfs to the ability are much appreciated!

Note that stamblades are getting nerfed aswell so the playstyle you dislike will be rarer to see after the update. The problem is that no other class will use the ability in the whole game content (pvp and pve) after the nerfs. As I said, I played with Lethal arrow ability on stamsorc (live server) and Its not overpowered, really (cp810, gold weapons, well built build).

I think that the nature of this ability should stay as I wrote in the previous comment, major defile is important in pvp. We dont want to see more guys in Heavy armor using reverberating bash as only source of major defile.
The pvp needs more action, no more heavy armor self healing guys fighting each other resulting in 1 hour boring duel. (I played this way than switched to the medium armor and I can tell you the difference of joy which it provides for me)

Not true, Bow/Bow builds using Snipe are still extremely strong, stronger then most Magicka builds. What you said regarding nobody using it PvE is 100% false.

Toc de Malsvi

templesus wrote: »

Prior_priest wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Just want to reiterate how great of a change this was. Sitting in the back of a zerg spamming snipe then cloaking is a playstyle that shouldn’t even exist in the game. Any and all nerfs to the ability are much appreciated!

Note that stamblades are getting nerfed aswell so the playstyle you dislike will be rarer to see after the update. The problem is that no other class will use the ability in the whole game content (pvp and pve) after the nerfs. As I said, I played with Lethal arrow ability on stamsorc (live server) and Its not overpowered, really (cp810, gold weapons, well built build).

I think that the nature of this ability should stay as I wrote in the previous comment, major defile is important in pvp. We dont want to see more guys in Heavy armor using reverberating bash as only source of major defile.
The pvp needs more action, no more heavy armor self healing guys fighting each other resulting in 1 hour boring duel. (I played this way than switched to the medium armor and I can tell you the difference of joy which it provides for me)

Not true, Bow/Bow builds using Snipe are still extremely strong, stronger then most Magicka builds. What you said regarding nobody using it PvE is 100% false.

This is just false.

Stonger than most mag GTFO, Bow/Bow and a broken Synergy doing upwards of 20k dps on its own got people losing their minds. The Synergy got nerfed and is about as good for mag as stam now. You can go back to your Mag builds and quit your hyperbolic insanity.

God forbid Bow is actually desirable as a main bar weapon on one DLC for one whole trial.

Sanguinor2

Isnt the spider Synergy aka the true carry of pve bow/bow builds getting nerfed? So the snipe Change really shouldnt matter all that much and pvpwise I really dont mind that nerf, getting hit from over 41m with a really hard hitting ability that also gives Major defile? Yeah no doesnt Need to be there imo.

Baconlad

Dark flare got nerfed to 37%...It still has its AoE major defile...but you have to hit ur target with the bright yellow "dodge roll now" sign before it will apply to any enemy around the target...take defile away, under the damage of flare...I blame NB snipers for dark flare being nerfed...

templesus

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Prior_priest wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Just want to reiterate how great of a change this was. Sitting in the back of a zerg spamming snipe then cloaking is a playstyle that shouldn’t even exist in the game. Any and all nerfs to the ability are much appreciated!

Note that stamblades are getting nerfed aswell so the playstyle you dislike will be rarer to see after the update. The problem is that no other class will use the ability in the whole game content (pvp and pve) after the nerfs. As I said, I played with Lethal arrow ability on stamsorc (live server) and Its not overpowered, really (cp810, gold weapons, well built build).

I think that the nature of this ability should stay as I wrote in the previous comment, major defile is important in pvp. We dont want to see more guys in Heavy armor using reverberating bash as only source of major defile.
The pvp needs more action, no more heavy armor self healing guys fighting each other resulting in 1 hour boring duel. (I played this way than switched to the medium armor and I can tell you the difference of joy which it provides for me)

Not true, Bow/Bow builds using Snipe are still extremely strong, stronger then most Magicka builds. What you said regarding nobody using it PvE is 100% false.

This is just false.

Stonger than most mag GTFO, Bow/Bow and a broken Synergy doing upwards of 20k dps on its own got people losing their minds. The Synergy got nerfed and is about as good for mag as stam now. You can go back to your Mag builds and quit your hyperbolic insanity.

God forbid Bow is actually desirable as a main bar weapon on one DLC for one whole trial.

You genuinely have no idea what you’re talking about.

https://youtu.be/vVg8-R8Z0bs
https://youtu.be/YEUBcXn9mkM
https://youtu.be/QSLVKtgFM0Y
https://youtu.be/bCPozE6ZBn4
https://youtu.be/Q8Qn8V7xKkk

Why don’t you actually do some testing, or atleast some research, before you attempt to refute someone’s claim. Refuting with absolutely zero background knowledge only makes the refuting party look stupid.

Furthermore, the fact you think the spider synergy got nerfed, makes your entire comment even more laughable.

Prior_priest

templesus wrote: »

Not true, Bow/Bow builds using Snipe are still extremely strong, stronger then most Magicka builds. What you said regarding nobody using it PvE is 100% false.

Yeah, few people still using the skill in PvE it was just figuratively spoken by me that nobody uses it. And If you think that Bow/Bow builds are stronger than magicka builds in PvP, I would argue. Iam dueling a lot so I know what Iam talking about

Prior_priest

Prior_priest wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Not true, Bow/Bow builds using Snipe are still extremely strong, stronger then most Magicka builds. What you said regarding nobody using it PvE is 100% false.

Yeah, few people still using the skill in PvE it was just figuratively spoken by me that nobody uses it. And If you think that Bow/Bow builds are stronger than magicka builds in PvP, I would argue. Iam dueling a lot so I know what Iam talking about.

* Only exception are cloaking nightblades which are going to be nerfed..

Feanor

The suggestion to change Snipe into the bow line spammable with no cast time and a lower damage and have the functionality of current Snipe provided by the ultimate would have been worth a try. It would have fixed so many issues at once.