Nerfs that try to balance PvP hurt PvE: NB edition

Jaimeh

This developer’s comment proves once more that nerfs are born from PvP issues, and that PvE inevitably suffers for it.

Similar to the other changes, this pass was done to ensure the Nightblade has less moments of redundancy within its own kit. Since Mark Target exists primarily as the class' way to gain access to Major Fracture or Breach, having a morph of your main ability grant the same thing heavily reduced the value of having Mark Target. Note that this effect will not stack per caster, similar to the Crusher enchantment for weapons.

Who even uses Mark Target in PvE, besides niche scenarios… the ‘primarily’ in the statement boggles the mind. Stamblades always used surprise attack for fracture, and ZOS' way of dealing with the redundancy is nerfing the skill that's used mostly in PVE, rather than the more PvP-oriented skill.

Azyle1

Jaimeh wrote: »

This developer’s comment proves once more that nerfs are born from PvP issues, and that PvE inevitably suffers for it.

Similar to the other changes, this pass was done to ensure the Nightblade has less moments of redundancy within its own kit. Since Mark Target exists primarily as the class' way to gain access to Major Fracture or Breach, having a morph of your main ability grant the same thing heavily reduced the value of having Mark Target. Note that this effect will not stack per caster, similar to the Crusher enchantment for weapons.

Who even uses Mark Target in PvE, besides niche scenarios… the ‘primarily’ in the statement boggles the mind. Stamblades always used surprise attack for fracture, and ZOS' way of dealing with the redundancy is nerfing the skill that's used mostly in PVE, rather than the more PvP-oriented skill.

It matters not in anything other than solo content.

Wolf_Watching

Don't start. It was b/c stamblade was parsing too high on dummies also. 2-3k easy above all other classes even in their best iterations. SO DON'T START. Say goodbye to the dawn of the blades. Welcome the dawn of the necrowardens!

VoiDGhOs7

Hopefully its over, they deserve the nerfs.

frostz417

Nightblades crying because they’re no longer top dogs in pve or PvP 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Jaimeh

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Don't start. It was b/c stamblade was parsing too high on dummies also. 2-3k easy above all other classes even in their best iterations. SO DON'T START. Say goodbye to the dawn of the blades. Welcome the dawn of the necrowardens!

That's not their justification though, is it? Also, while they are at it, and to be truly democratic, they should as well remove fracture from wardens' sub-assault, shouldn't they?

mb10

balance pvp how?

magblade has been dead in PVP for over a year now. Its literally been consistent nerfs every patch for about 4-5 in a row now

Jaimeh

frostz417 wrote: »

Nightblades crying because they’re no longer top dogs in pve or PvP 😂😂😂😂😂😂

You do know that not all classes have equally easy rotations, yes?

kojou

For PvE the removal of minor berzerk is a much bigger deal IMO. Tanks can easily apply Major Fracture. Minor Berzerk uptime is only good with the best of healers and even then is difficult in some fights.

Phreeki

You feel bad about the NB nerfs do ya, welcome to the sorclife have a seat.

Shad0wfire99

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Don't start. It was b/c stamblade was parsing too high on dummies also. 2-3k easy above all other classes even in their best iterations. SO DON'T START. Say goodbye to the dawn of the blades. Welcome the dawn of the necrowardens!

Yeah, that's probably still gonna happen in a raid parse, so NB's aren't going anywhere.

Jaimeh

Phreeki wrote: »

You feel bad about the NB nerfs do ya, welcome to the sorclife have a seat.

My main is a sorc They just want us all to buy Elseweyr and play necromancer... the title of the patch notes should be '44 pages of reasons why you should play necro'...

frostz417

Jaimeh wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Nightblades crying because they’re no longer top dogs in pve or PvP 😂😂😂😂😂😂

You do know that not all classes have equally easy rotations, yes?

You know that nightblade has dominated the end game pve scene for over a year and have been dominate in dps. Right?
Doesn’t matter if the rotation is easy or not

Jaimeh

frostz417 wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Nightblades crying because they’re no longer top dogs in pve or PvP 😂😂😂😂😂😂

You do know that not all classes have equally easy rotations, yes?

You know that nightblade has dominated the end game pve scene for over a year and have been dominate in dps. Right?
Doesn’t matter if the rotation is easy or not

The fracture change is hurting stam specs, and actually no, I personally see a lot of sorcs and templars in end-game content. Also, rotation and ease of use of a given skill should go in hand with its prowess; some classes are a lot easier to play than others, but the discrepancy in damage output is significant: just ask magwardens. Finally, the answer to bringing classes relatively on par is not nerfing the over-performing one, but adding buffs to the toolkits of the other ones.

GazHilarant

frostz417 wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Nightblades crying because they’re no longer top dogs in pve or PvP 😂😂😂😂😂😂

You do know that not all classes have equally easy rotations, yes?

You know that nightblade has dominated the end game pve scene for over a year and have been dominate in dps. Right?
Doesn’t matter if the rotation is easy or not

Wow, this guy is super anti-nightblade, has commented on every nightblade post for the last 20 minutes.

Frankly I found the Magic Nightblade rotations fun for PVE, since last patch the other Magic damage dealers have been in very close proximity, dps wise with considerably easier rotations.

frostz417

GazHilarant wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Nightblades crying because they’re no longer top dogs in pve or PvP 😂😂😂😂😂😂

You do know that not all classes have equally easy rotations, yes?

You know that nightblade has dominated the end game pve scene for over a year and have been dominate in dps. Right?
Doesn’t matter if the rotation is easy or not

Wow, this guy is super anti-nightblade, has commented on every nightblade post for the last 20 minutes.

Frankly I found the Magic Nightblade rotations fun for PVE, since last patch the other Magic damage dealers have been in very close proximity, dps wise with considerably easier rotations.

I’m just enjoying the NB tears 🤷‍♂️ Call me toxic idc

chetter_hummin

@OP pls list other spammables that have major fracture/breech (roughtly 8% more damage) build in. U cant because there is none. all other classes must use other skill to get acces to that. so must stam NB now, perfect balance imo (PVP)

pve is the same, u will have tank to apply major fracture anyway and parsing less on dummy, well to bad game is not build around dummies

kathandira

Jaimeh wrote: »

Stamblades always used surprise attack for fracture, and ZOS' way of dealing with the redundancy is nerfing the skill that's used mostly in PVE, rather than the more PvP-oriented skill.

In PvE, there are other sources of Major Fracture from other classes. It should be fine.

ccmedaddy

Losing minor berserk and major fracture is irrelevant in most group PvE content where tanks and healers already provide you with the same buffs. If you're crying about the fact that you'll be doing slightly less DPS on a dummy then... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Jaimeh

chetter_hummin wrote: »

@OP pls list other spammables that have major fracture/breech (roughtly 8% more damage) build in. U cant because there is none. all other classes must use other skill to get acces to that. so must stam NB now, perfect balance imo (PVP)

pve is the same, u will have tank to apply major fracture anyway and parsing less on dummy, well to bad game is not build around dummies

If you have a good rotation, you can keep high fracture uptimes with SA, it's not a spammable per se, but you cast it ideally 3 times on your front bar, so it's pretty similar.

Edited to clarify: SA meaning sub-assault

Tommy_The_Gun

VoiDGhOs7 wrote: »

Hopefully its over

Nope it is not over

From PTS:
Developer Comment:

In our pass to remove some redundancies in terms of ability operations, we've identified a few more changes that we're in the process of adjusting that need more time before we're happy with them. In particular, we've noted that Nightblade has several sources of Major Expedition, so we'll be focusing on Cripple and its morphs, as well as the Double Take morph. These additional changes will be coming in a future PTS incremental patch.

Since they don't mention "Path of Darkness" skill & it's morphs I get the feeling that they will simply strip Major Expedition bonus from those skills. Yes - at this point I don't expect nothing good...

Sanguinor2

Jaimeh wrote: »

If you have a good rotation, you can keep high fracture uptimes with SA, it's not a spammable per se, but you cast it ideally 3 times on your front bar, so it's pretty similar.

Surprise attack not a spammable wtf are you Talking About? Do you even know what a spammable is?

Jaimeh

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Losing minor berserk and major fracture is irrelevant in most group PvE content where tanks and healers already provide you with the same buffs. If you're crying about the fact that you'll be doing slightly less DPS on a dummy then... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The tank can't pierce everything, it's very handy to have for instances like BRP for example.

Jaimeh

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

If you have a good rotation, you can keep high fracture uptimes with SA, it's not a spammable per se, but you cast it ideally 3 times on your front bar, so it's pretty similar.

Surprise attack not a spammable wtf are you Talking About? Do you even know what a spammable is?

@Sanguinor2 I was referring to sub assault (SA)... I was giving you an example that wardens did retain their fracture.

Didgerion

Jaimeh wrote: »

This developer’s comment proves once more that nerfs are born from PvP issues, and that PvE inevitably suffers for it.

Similar to the other changes, this pass was done to ensure the Nightblade has less moments of redundancy within its own kit. Since Mark Target exists primarily as the class' way to gain access to Major Fracture or Breach, having a morph of your main ability grant the same thing heavily reduced the value of having Mark Target. Note that this effect will not stack per caster, similar to the Crusher enchantment for weapons.

Who even uses Mark Target in PvE, besides niche scenarios… the ‘primarily’ in the statement boggles the mind. Stamblades always used surprise attack for fracture, and ZOS' way of dealing with the redundancy is nerfing the skill that's used mostly in PVE, rather than the more PvP-oriented skill.

I used mark target a lot in PVE when soloed. It is a nice self-healing and debuffing skill. Afaik nigblades currently are in top of PVE dps...a slight nerf was needed there imo.

Looks like you are putting it on the paper here from a niche scenario perspective.

kathandira

The only thing I see that can hurt MagNBs in PvE is the loss of Minor Berserk. But you can get that 8% back by using Lotus Fan which applies minor vulnerability.

Jaimeh

Didgerion wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

This developer’s comment proves once more that nerfs are born from PvP issues, and that PvE inevitably suffers for it.

Similar to the other changes, this pass was done to ensure the Nightblade has less moments of redundancy within its own kit. Since Mark Target exists primarily as the class' way to gain access to Major Fracture or Breach, having a morph of your main ability grant the same thing heavily reduced the value of having Mark Target. Note that this effect will not stack per caster, similar to the Crusher enchantment for weapons.

Who even uses Mark Target in PvE, besides niche scenarios… the ‘primarily’ in the statement boggles the mind. Stamblades always used surprise attack for fracture, and ZOS' way of dealing with the redundancy is nerfing the skill that's used mostly in PVE, rather than the more PvP-oriented skill.

I used mark target a lot in PVE when soloed. It is a nice self-healing and debuffing skill. Afaik nigblades currently are in top of PVE dps...a slight nerf was needed there imo.

Looks like you are putting it on the paper here from a niche scenario perspective.

I use it too sometimes when I'm on portal duty in vCR, but that's about it PvE-wise.

I agree with NBs being top-dogs, but why can't they buff other classes instead?

Alucardo

Meanwhile I'm out here beating my meat to all these stamblades crying about their damage loss. Good riddance.

Jaimeh

kathandira wrote: »

The only thing I see that can hurt MagNBs in PvE is the loss of Minor Berserk. But you can get that 8% back by using Lotus Fan which applies minor vulnerability.

It will fall on healers to make good use of combat prayer, though that's irrelevant for DD/Tank combos in 4-person groups. There's also Slimecraw, I guess.

kathandira

Jaimeh wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

The only thing I see that can hurt MagNBs in PvE is the loss of Minor Berserk. But you can get that 8% back by using Lotus Fan which applies minor vulnerability.

It will fall on healers to make good use of combat prayer, though that's irrelevant for DD/Tank combos in 4-person groups. There's also Slimecraw, I guess.

Good point. In trials, the berserk will still be there, so not a worry there. But yeah, in groups without a healer, they wouldn't be getting it. But there is still Lotus Fan for the 8% vulnerability, which will apply to anyone hit, which is a group buff, rather than the selfish Berserk from Grim Focus.

Legendry

LOL, get destroyed you pesky NB's. Funny how paid classes retain the good buffs/debuffs. Nice and slick micro transaction turn you ZOS you. Clever.
ZOS's idea of balancing=put the best stuff behind the paywall.
Anyways, RIP NB. Finally you're put to the ground, killed me many times in PVP and now comes revenge. Justice is served.