Stamblade PVP future

Iskiab

I commend you guys for staying positive. I’m fairly certain stamblade will be the weakest pvp class/spec post patch. I was never very good at it though, I’m changing mine to a magblade so I can have two.

Stamblade’s already relegated a noob ganker class from what I can see. If you’re going to be balanced against ganking noobs the bar will be set pretty low for the class.

As is I’m not even sure stamblade burst from stealth is stronger then a sorc from range. If a sorc has major defile it’s probably about as strong, no ultimate required.

dazee

ItsNebula wrote: »

Nightblade mains are freaking out because they have 0 idea how to play any other play style. It’s quite funny if you ask me. sNB have no idea what diversity is.

Now they’ll have to debate between running SnB/2H, SnB/DW, SnB/Bow (I’ve made this work very well before actually) etc etc.

sNB might actually learn to play a different play style after 5 years. I’m very pleased with these patch notes

Says someone who never plays NB. Some people actually play NB becuase they want to be a stealthy assassin type with daggers. Not some tanky mofo with a sword and shield.

Royalthought

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

Nightblade mains are freaking out because they have 0 idea how to play any other play style. It’s quite funny if you ask me. sNB have no idea what diversity is.

Now they’ll have to debate between running SnB/2H, SnB/DW, SnB/Bow (I’ve made this work very well before actually) etc etc.

sNB might actually learn to play a different play style after 5 years. I’m very pleased with these patch notes

The nerfs are unjustified. I've played with every spec in this game, and the only thing about Nightblades I felt was too strong was Shadowy Disguise. What did they do? Destroy the class and didn't even bother addressing the one thing they should have.

^ This. As I can see devs wanna nerf/remove hard counters, like DK wings, Sorc's pets, Major protection, Shield-breaker, Warden snares and combo-shalks etc, because it's unpleasant to play against hard counter, ok, there is logic in that.. and what they do to NB's ability which is hard counter almost to anything if spammed and potion is on cd? They even buff cloak (duration will be 3.5% longer) and heavily nerf whole class both PVP and PVE and especially magblade.
All they needed to do is add escalating cost to cloak, similar to streak/dodge.. no cloak spamming, no problem, surprise attack is still possible but for next 5 seconds NB will be seen or suffer increased cost of cloak.

^None of this.

Cloak in NOT a nightblades streak. Cloak to nb blade is what shields are for sorcs.

Streak for sorc is what dodgeroll is for night blades. Not understanding this is why uninformed yet vocal individuals try to lump to two together.

Shields dont have increased cost and dont prevent healing or regen. Why? Because its an awful idea. Same for cloak.


On topic, the future of nb is in the air because they simply stripped the class of everything.

Nbs were already low tier (mostly due to nerfs) in, tank, heals, aoe and group play.

They excelled at 1 thing. Single target damage. They are now being punished for being good at that 1 thing.

Now that 1 thing they were good at is pigeonholed to ambushing from behind while expected to mark 1 target at a time (eliminating the suprise) which is ganky yet make ganks cumbersome.

Wierd to hear people celebrate nerfs to a class they hate because of ganks yet ignoring the changes that encourages it to gank exclusively.

/shrug

Dalsinthus

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

SnB / 2h heavy armor NB will be OP

Also with the change to blur they will have snare removal and major evasion on the same ability whilst in heavy. This class will be a juggernaut to take down. If you play the true way of 2h / S&B

Nothing says rogue like an unkillable juggernaut with a shield and giant two handed sword.

Dalsinthus

Royalthought wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

Nightblade mains are freaking out because they have 0 idea how to play any other play style. It’s quite funny if you ask me. sNB have no idea what diversity is.

Now they’ll have to debate between running SnB/2H, SnB/DW, SnB/Bow (I’ve made this work very well before actually) etc etc.

sNB might actually learn to play a different play style after 5 years. I’m very pleased with these patch notes

The nerfs are unjustified. I've played with every spec in this game, and the only thing about Nightblades I felt was too strong was Shadowy Disguise. What did they do? Destroy the class and didn't even bother addressing the one thing they should have.

^ This. As I can see devs wanna nerf/remove hard counters, like DK wings, Sorc's pets, Major protection, Shield-breaker, Warden snares and combo-shalks etc, because it's unpleasant to play against hard counter, ok, there is logic in that.. and what they do to NB's ability which is hard counter almost to anything if spammed and potion is on cd? They even buff cloak (duration will be 3.5% longer) and heavily nerf whole class both PVP and PVE and especially magblade.
All they needed to do is add escalating cost to cloak, similar to streak/dodge.. no cloak spamming, no problem, surprise attack is still possible but for next 5 seconds NB will be seen or suffer increased cost of cloak.

^None of this.

Cloak in NOT a nightblades streak. Cloak to nb blade is what shields are for sorcs.

Streak for sorc is what dodgeroll is for night blades. Not understanding this is why uninformed yet vocal individuals try to lump to two together.

Shields dont have increased cost and dont prevent healing or regen. Why? Because its an awful idea. Same for cloak.


On topic, the future of nb is in the air because they simply stripped the class of everything.

Nbs were already low tier (mostly due to nerfs) in, tank, heals, aoe and group play.

They excelled at 1 thing. Single target damage. They are now being punished for being good at that 1 thing.

Now that 1 thing they were good at is pigeonholed to ambushing from behind while expected to mark 1 target at a time (eliminating the suprise) which is ganky yet make ganks cumbersome.

Wierd to hear people celebrate nerfs to a class they hate because of ganks yet ignoring the changes that encourages it to gank exclusively.

/shrug

^This guy gets it.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Royalthought wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

Nightblade mains are freaking out because they have 0 idea how to play any other play style. It’s quite funny if you ask me. sNB have no idea what diversity is.

Now they’ll have to debate between running SnB/2H, SnB/DW, SnB/Bow (I’ve made this work very well before actually) etc etc.

sNB might actually learn to play a different play style after 5 years. I’m very pleased with these patch notes

The nerfs are unjustified. I've played with every spec in this game, and the only thing about Nightblades I felt was too strong was Shadowy Disguise. What did they do? Destroy the class and didn't even bother addressing the one thing they should have.

^ This. As I can see devs wanna nerf/remove hard counters, like DK wings, Sorc's pets, Major protection, Shield-breaker, Warden snares and combo-shalks etc, because it's unpleasant to play against hard counter, ok, there is logic in that.. and what they do to NB's ability which is hard counter almost to anything if spammed and potion is on cd? They even buff cloak (duration will be 3.5% longer) and heavily nerf whole class both PVP and PVE and especially magblade.
All they needed to do is add escalating cost to cloak, similar to streak/dodge.. no cloak spamming, no problem, surprise attack is still possible but for next 5 seconds NB will be seen or suffer increased cost of cloak.

^None of this.

Cloak in NOT a nightblades streak. Cloak to nb blade is what shields are for sorcs.

Streak for sorc is what dodgeroll is for night blades. Not understanding this is why uninformed yet vocal individuals try to lump to two together.

Shields dont have increased cost and dont prevent healing or regen. Why? Because its an awful idea. Same for cloak.


On topic, the future of nb is in the air because they simply stripped the class of everything.

Nbs were already low tier (mostly due to nerfs) in, tank, heals, aoe and group play.

They excelled at 1 thing. Single target damage. They are now being punished for being good at that 1 thing.

Now that 1 thing they were good at is pigeonholed to ambushing from behind while expected to mark 1 target at a time (eliminating the suprise) which is ganky yet make ganks cumbersome.

Wierd to hear people celebrate nerfs to a class they hate because of ganks yet ignoring the changes that encourages it to gank exclusively.

/shrug

Well that's because they don't care,alredy explained that the 50% cost increase make no sense on cloak in other thread's.
Many counter potion,skill that can suppress the skill or aoe and skill that are used by everyone like jabs,spiked armor etc yet they think you can kill a nb only with detect pot(that's alone say alot about the skill of a player)
Most of the time they where not even responding they just want to break cloak 1/2 time and get the kill,ignoring that the class don't have shield,huge mitigation or healing and need cloak as breathing room.

Even considering to put a cost increase it should last like 1-1,5 sec just to punish the spammer not 5 seconds.

Aztlan

"Nbs were already low tier (mostly due to nerfs) in tank, heals, aoe and group play.

They excelled at 1 thing. Single target damage. They are now being punished for being good at that 1 thing."

This.

SidraWillowsky

dazee wrote: »

Says someone who never plays NB. Some people actually play NB becuase they want to be a stealthy assassin type with daggers. Not some tanky mofo with a sword and shield.

^ this. Nothing says "stealthy" like clomping along with a big ol' shield strapped to your back.

AyelineESO

I personally dont think the changes are going to be too big of a deal. You'll have to adjust some things here and there but thats about it (and there's nothing wrong with that).

Personally still going to be rocking 2h/bow as I need the mobility provided by the bow to successfully 1vsX (sure there's shade and cloak but that sometimes just isn't enough depending on the situation).

Iskiab

AyelineESO wrote: »

I personally dont think the changes are going to be too big of a deal. You'll have to adjust some things here and there but thats about it (and there's nothing wrong with that).

Personally still going to be rocking 2h/bow as I need the mobility provided by the bow to successfully 1vsX (sure there's shade and cloak but that sometimes just isn't enough depending on the situation).

It might still be okay in CP Cyrodiil solo ganking if that’s your thing. I only play no-CP where stamblade is already the consensus as one of the weakest class/specs.

I think the increase in aoe damage will make it really hard to gank anyone as a stamblade. These things are hard to predict.

I can see why the devs are doing what they’re doing. New pvpers don’t have any defense so can get ganked. Once people learn to pvp and how to spec it’s not possible so what’s left? A glass canon free kill. The devs need to put their thinking caps on for how they want Stamblades to fit in the big picture. There’s no easy answer.

AyelineESO

Iskiab wrote: »

AyelineESO wrote: »

I personally dont think the changes are going to be too big of a deal. You'll have to adjust some things here and there but thats about it (and there's nothing wrong with that).

Personally still going to be rocking 2h/bow as I need the mobility provided by the bow to successfully 1vsX (sure there's shade and cloak but that sometimes just isn't enough depending on the situation).

It might still be okay in CP Cyrodiil solo ganking if that’s your thing. I only play no-CP where stamblade is already the consensus as one of the weakest class/specs.

I think the increase in aoe damage will make it really hard to gank anyone as a stamblade. These things are hard to predict.

I can see why the devs are doing what they’re doing. New pvpers don’t have any defense so can get ganked. Once people learn to pvp and how to spec it’s not possible so what’s left? A glass canon free kill. The devs need to put their thinking caps on for how they want Stamblades to fit in the big picture. There’s no easy answer.

I do not gank with my NB. Im always surprised when I see people automatically assuming that you gank when you run a 2h/bow build or just see the class as a ganker class in general. I mean I can see why people think that (like 95% of NBs in cyro are gankers) but its not true for everyone.

Im saying what I have said in my previous post because the core skills that make stamNB such a good solo class (not talking about ganking) have not been touched. The only thing that might change is that our damage is probably going to be a bit lower than it used to be. All in all the class is good to go with some minor adjustment from the players side in my opinion.

Iskiab

AyelineESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

AyelineESO wrote: »

I personally dont think the changes are going to be too big of a deal. You'll have to adjust some things here and there but thats about it (and there's nothing wrong with that).

Personally still going to be rocking 2h/bow as I need the mobility provided by the bow to successfully 1vsX (sure there's shade and cloak but that sometimes just isn't enough depending on the situation).

It might still be okay in CP Cyrodiil solo ganking if that’s your thing. I only play no-CP where stamblade is already the consensus as one of the weakest class/specs.

I think the increase in aoe damage will make it really hard to gank anyone as a stamblade. These things are hard to predict.

I can see why the devs are doing what they’re doing. New pvpers don’t have any defense so can get ganked. Once people learn to pvp and how to spec it’s not possible so what’s left? A glass canon free kill. The devs need to put their thinking caps on for how they want Stamblades to fit in the big picture. There’s no easy answer.

I do not gank with my NB. Im always surprised when I see people automatically assuming that you gank when you run a 2h/bow build or just see the class as a ganker class in general. I mean I can see why people think that (like 95% of NBs in cyro are gankers) but its not true for everyone.

Im saying what I have said in my previous post because the core skills that make stamNB such a good solo class (not talking about ganking) have not been touched. The only thing that might change is that our damage is probably going to be a bit lower than it used to be. All in all the class is good to go with some minor adjustment from the players side in my opinion.

Ah okay, I always assume Stamblades are archers or gankers. I’ve heard heavy Stamblades can work, but I’ve never seen it. I tried making a stamblade alt brawler but I sucked at it, I stopped playing the class feeling that stamblade lacked enough self healing to make it work.

Most of my views on stamblade in pvp come from BGs, where I’ve seen people complain in group chat when they see one, and never seen one perform well... well outside starter BGs. That and my pvp guild where stamblade is the only class/spec excluded from the guild, even though otherwise it’s not restrictive.

I think that’s fairly common too, I know of no larger pvp guilds who run with a lot of Stamblades, if any.

AyelineESO

Iskiab wrote: »

AyelineESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

AyelineESO wrote: »

I personally dont think the changes are going to be too big of a deal. You'll have to adjust some things here and there but thats about it (and there's nothing wrong with that).

Personally still going to be rocking 2h/bow as I need the mobility provided by the bow to successfully 1vsX (sure there's shade and cloak but that sometimes just isn't enough depending on the situation).

It might still be okay in CP Cyrodiil solo ganking if that’s your thing. I only play no-CP where stamblade is already the consensus as one of the weakest class/specs.

I think the increase in aoe damage will make it really hard to gank anyone as a stamblade. These things are hard to predict.

I can see why the devs are doing what they’re doing. New pvpers don’t have any defense so can get ganked. Once people learn to pvp and how to spec it’s not possible so what’s left? A glass canon free kill. The devs need to put their thinking caps on for how they want Stamblades to fit in the big picture. There’s no easy answer.

I do not gank with my NB. Im always surprised when I see people automatically assuming that you gank when you run a 2h/bow build or just see the class as a ganker class in general. I mean I can see why people think that (like 95% of NBs in cyro are gankers) but its not true for everyone.

Im saying what I have said in my previous post because the core skills that make stamNB such a good solo class (not talking about ganking) have not been touched. The only thing that might change is that our damage is probably going to be a bit lower than it used to be. All in all the class is good to go with some minor adjustment from the players side in my opinion.

Ah okay, I always assume Stamblades are archers or gankers. I’ve heard heavy Stamblades can work, but I’ve never seen it. I tried making a stamblade alt brawler but I sucked at it, I stopped playing the class feeling that stamblade lacked enough self healing to make it work.

Most of my views on stamblade in pvp come from BGs, where I’ve seen people complain in group chat when they see one, and never seen one perform well... well outside starter BGs. That and my pvp guild where stamblade is the only class/spec excluded from the guild, even though otherwise it’s not restrictive.

You do not even need to be a heavy NB to not play a ganker NB. Even medium armor NBs can Solo Open-World PvP just fine. You just gotta use terrain and kite more often than the heavy armor counterpart. In fact, I'd personally say that medium armor NBs have a hell of an easier time in solo open world than heavy NBs because of how elusive medium armor rollerblades are (from my own experience playing both). I do have to say that medium armor NB gets punished a lot harder for making mistakes when fighting outnumbered tho because of their rather squishy nature.

I dont know what kind of PvP your guild does but I could see why they dont like sNBs If they either A.) run organized bombgroups or B.) do alot of smallscale PvP. When it comes to point B then heavy NB might still be somewhat okay (though not really optimal) but medium armor is absolutely useless, especially when encountering organized enemy smallscale groups.

In my opinion sNB really shines in groups of 1-3 (when your party members are NBs aswell I should add). Atleast thats when I feel like NBs are the most effective. As soon as you run groups with classes that can actually stand their ground (aka being tanky) and don't rely on LOS and kiting so much, then medium sNB (heavy NB can somewhat function in such a group but its far from being BiS) effectiveness falls off.

Iskiab

AyelineESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

AyelineESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

AyelineESO wrote: »

I personally dont think the changes are going to be too big of a deal. You'll have to adjust some things here and there but thats about it (and there's nothing wrong with that).

Personally still going to be rocking 2h/bow as I need the mobility provided by the bow to successfully 1vsX (sure there's shade and cloak but that sometimes just isn't enough depending on the situation).

It might still be okay in CP Cyrodiil solo ganking if that’s your thing. I only play no-CP where stamblade is already the consensus as one of the weakest class/specs.

I think the increase in aoe damage will make it really hard to gank anyone as a stamblade. These things are hard to predict.

I can see why the devs are doing what they’re doing. New pvpers don’t have any defense so can get ganked. Once people learn to pvp and how to spec it’s not possible so what’s left? A glass canon free kill. The devs need to put their thinking caps on for how they want Stamblades to fit in the big picture. There’s no easy answer.

I do not gank with my NB. Im always surprised when I see people automatically assuming that you gank when you run a 2h/bow build or just see the class as a ganker class in general. I mean I can see why people think that (like 95% of NBs in cyro are gankers) but its not true for everyone.

Im saying what I have said in my previous post because the core skills that make stamNB such a good solo class (not talking about ganking) have not been touched. The only thing that might change is that our damage is probably going to be a bit lower than it used to be. All in all the class is good to go with some minor adjustment from the players side in my opinion.

Ah okay, I always assume Stamblades are archers or gankers. I’ve heard heavy Stamblades can work, but I’ve never seen it. I tried making a stamblade alt brawler but I sucked at it, I stopped playing the class feeling that stamblade lacked enough self healing to make it work.

Most of my views on stamblade in pvp come from BGs, where I’ve seen people complain in group chat when they see one, and never seen one perform well... well outside starter BGs. That and my pvp guild where stamblade is the only class/spec excluded from the guild, even though otherwise it’s not restrictive.

You do not even need to be a heavy NB to not play a ganker NB. Even medium armor NBs can Solo Open-World PvP just fine. You just gotta use terrain and kite more often than the heavy armor counterpart. In fact, I'd personally say that medium armor NBs have a hell of an easier time in solo open world than heavy NBs because of how elusive medium armor rollerblades are (from my own experience playing both). I do have to say that medium armor NB gets punished a lot harder for making mistakes when fighting outnumbered tho because of their rather squishy nature.

I dont know what kind of PvP your guild does but I could see why they dont like sNBs If they either A.) run organized bombgroups or B.) do alot of smallscale PvP. When it comes to point B then heavy NB might still be somewhat okay (though not really optimal) but medium armor is absolutely useless, especially when encountering organized enemy smallscale groups.

In my opinion sNB really shines in groups of 1-3 (when your party members are NBs aswell I should add). Atleast thats when I feel like NBs are the most effective. As soon as you run groups with classes that can actually stand their ground (aka being tanky) and don't rely on LOS and kiting so much, then medium sNB (heavy NB can somewhat function in such a group but its far from being BiS) effectiveness falls off.

Agreed. I think me saying Stamblades are one of the weakest pvp classes ruffled some feathers. Got ganked by two Stamblades a couple times in Cyrodiil, while 1 has zero chance of taking me down two can do it.

I also only play no CP. I think the dodge rolling trait and CP dodge rolling points help stamblade a lot. That plus crit modifier.

I’m guessing really. I only play non-CP like I said and am guessing as to why people say Stamblades are powerful, when amongst people who pvp a lot Nightblades are considered to be the weakest pvp class, with the exception of Magblade healers being good and magblades doing okay in cyrodiil If spec’d right.

AyelineESO

It depends on which type of PvP we are talking about. If its group PvP I can mostly agree to stamNB not being that useful or good compared to other classes and what they bring to the table (it isnt bad but it also doesent do anything special). When it comes to solo open world PvP (no matter if CP or no CP - no ganking) then I'm sure most people would agree with me when I say stamNB is top tier.

AMeanOne

Stamblade is definitely one of the top openworld solo classes.

akray21

I have not played in a while, but I was thinking about coming back until I saw these patch notes. When I was playing last I was one of the only heavy armor NB's running around Cyrodiil (this might have changed). In heavy armor I struggled for damage compared to my medium armor friends. People are saying that heavy armor NB will be the new style, being one myself I highly disagree… the new style will be to change classes.

Nerfs:
- Incap: loss of Major Defile
- Grim Focus: Minor Berserk AND Minor Endurance removed
- Cloak: cost increase AND healing/second decreased (33% over 3.5 seconds was far superior in PvP to 4.5%/second for 8 seconds).
- Surprise Attack: Major Fracture removed

Buffs:
- Grim Focus: up to 15% reduced damage taken

Wash:
- Ambush: Minor Vulnerability added (this is not a net buff as it somewhat offsets the nerf to Grim Focus).

The loss of Major Defile and Major Fracture is a massive dps loss that I don’t think a heavy armor NB can overcome. The change to cloak is a disaster to my play style as cloak was the main heal (along with Vigor), the new version does roughly half the amount of healing per second. The loss of minor berserk is somewhat offset by the change to ambush (addition of minor vulnerability), but this is a net nerf because an ability is required, and resources lost to apply the debuff (and it’s purgeable). In addition to this resource management hit, minor endurance was removed and a cost increase on cloak was implemented. The only icing on this *** cake is a theoretical 15% damage reduction with max stacks of grim focus (this is literally the only reason to use this ability on a heavy armor NB).

Unfadingsilence

Hiya https://imgur.com/gallery/LoGkbDo

Future looks good

Aedaryl

akray21 wrote: »

I have not played in a while, but I was thinking about coming back until I saw these patch notes. When I was playing last I was one of the only heavy armor NB's running around Cyrodiil (this might have changed). In heavy armor I struggled for damage compared to my medium armor friends. People are saying that heavy armor NB will be the new style, being one myself I highly disagree… the new style will be to change classes.

Nerfs:
- Incap: loss of Major Defile
- Grim Focus: Minor Berserk AND Minor Endurance removed
- Cloak: cost increase AND healing/second decreased (33% over 3.5 seconds was far superior in PvP to 4.5%/second for 8 seconds).
- Surprise Attack: Major Fracture removed

Buffs:
- Grim Focus: up to 15% reduced damage taken

Wash:
- Ambush: Minor Vulnerability added (this is not a net buff as it somewhat offsets the nerf to Grim Focus).

The loss of Major Defile and Major Fracture is a massive dps loss that I don’t think a heavy armor NB can overcome. The change to cloak is a disaster to my play style as cloak was the main heal (along with Vigor), the new version does roughly half the amount of healing per second. The loss of minor berserk is somewhat offset by the change to ambush (addition of minor vulnerability), but this is a net nerf because an ability is required, and resources lost to apply the debuff (and it’s purgeable). In addition to this resource management hit, minor endurance was removed and a cost increase on cloak was implemented. The only icing on this *** cake is a theoretical 15% damage reduction with max stacks of grim focus (this is literally the only reason to use this ability on a heavy armor NB).

#biased

You don't list all the buff NB got.

akray21

Aedaryl wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

I have not played in a while, but I was thinking about coming back until I saw these patch notes. When I was playing last I was one of the only heavy armor NB's running around Cyrodiil (this might have changed). In heavy armor I struggled for damage compared to my medium armor friends. People are saying that heavy armor NB will be the new style, being one myself I highly disagree… the new style will be to change classes.

Nerfs:
- Incap: loss of Major Defile
- Grim Focus: Minor Berserk AND Minor Endurance removed
- Cloak: cost increase AND healing/second decreased (33% over 3.5 seconds was far superior in PvP to 4.5%/second for 8 seconds).
- Surprise Attack: Major Fracture removed

Buffs:
- Grim Focus: up to 15% reduced damage taken

Wash:
- Ambush: Minor Vulnerability added (this is not a net buff as it somewhat offsets the nerf to Grim Focus).

The loss of Major Defile and Major Fracture is a massive dps loss that I don’t think a heavy armor NB can overcome. The change to cloak is a disaster to my play style as cloak was the main heal (along with Vigor), the new version does roughly half the amount of healing per second. The loss of minor berserk is somewhat offset by the change to ambush (addition of minor vulnerability), but this is a net nerf because an ability is required, and resources lost to apply the debuff (and it’s purgeable). In addition to this resource management hit, minor endurance was removed and a cost increase on cloak was implemented. The only icing on this *** cake is a theoretical 15% damage reduction with max stacks of grim focus (this is literally the only reason to use this ability on a heavy armor NB).

#biased

You don't list all the buff NB got.

Not biased. I play stamsorc and magplar as well. I listed everything of relevance to my build and the heavy armor style. What do you feel I left off that is a buff to the heavy armor stam play style?

Juhasow

akray21 wrote: »

I have not played in a while, but I was thinking about coming back until I saw these patch notes. When I was playing last I was one of the only heavy armor NB's running around Cyrodiil (this might have changed). In heavy armor I struggled for damage compared to my medium armor friends. People are saying that heavy armor NB will be the new style, being one myself I highly disagree… the new style will be to change classes.

Nerfs:
- Incap: loss of Major Defile
- Grim Focus: Minor Berserk AND Minor Endurance removed
- Cloak: cost increase AND healing/second decreased (33% over 3.5 seconds was far superior in PvP to 4.5%/second for 8 seconds).
- Surprise Attack: Major Fracture removed

Buffs:
- Grim Focus: up to 15% reduced damage taken

Wash:
- Ambush: Minor Vulnerability added (this is not a net buff as it somewhat offsets the nerf to Grim Focus).

The loss of Major Defile and Major Fracture is a massive dps loss that I don’t think a heavy armor NB can overcome. The change to cloak is a disaster to my play style as cloak was the main heal (along with Vigor), the new version does roughly half the amount of healing per second. The loss of minor berserk is somewhat offset by the change to ambush (addition of minor vulnerability), but this is a net nerf because an ability is required, and resources lost to apply the debuff (and it’s purgeable). In addition to this resource management hit, minor endurance was removed and a cost increase on cloak was implemented. The only icing on this *** cake is a theoretical 15% damage reduction with max stacks of grim focus (this is literally the only reason to use this ability on a heavy armor NB).

Umm wut ? For the record at the moment of posting it in PvP stamblade changes looks like :

1. Stamblade looses :
- fracture on supprise attack
- minor berserk and minor endurance on relentless focus
- defile on incap
- minor maim on mass hysteria
- dark cloak burst heal if You were that guy

2. Stamblade gets :
- no cost on mark
- vulnerability on ambush
- heal , 10 seconds more duration and up to 15% dmg mitigation on relentless focus
- something on incap (they've said they'll change mangle to something better)
- 4 more targets on mass hysteria (6 targets in total)
- 50% damage on power extracion (25% to base ability and 20% to morph is 50% in total)
- flanking penetration debuff on supprise attack
- shade dealing dmg based on higher stats

At the moment it's questionable will heavy armor stamblade really get nerfed in PvP in elsweyr or it'll be just change in playstyle that You need to adapt to but with more or less same effectivenes as it is right now which would be one of the worst balance attempts ZoS could pull of. Heavy armor stamblade in PvP needs nerfs and question is will he gets those because as for now it doesnt look that bad for that particular playstyle. I dont know when was the last time You've been running Your heavy armor stamblade in PvP but that must've been long time ago since heavy armor stamblade is doing really well in PvP since over a year atleast.

Durham

Iskiab wrote: »

AyelineESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

AyelineESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

AyelineESO wrote: »

I personally dont think the changes are going to be too big of a deal. You'll have to adjust some things here and there but thats about it (and there's nothing wrong with that).

Personally still going to be rocking 2h/bow as I need the mobility provided by the bow to successfully 1vsX (sure there's shade and cloak but that sometimes just isn't enough depending on the situation).

It might still be okay in CP Cyrodiil solo ganking if that’s your thing. I only play no-CP where stamblade is already the consensus as one of the weakest class/specs.

I think the increase in aoe damage will make it really hard to gank anyone as a stamblade. These things are hard to predict.

I can see why the devs are doing what they’re doing. New pvpers don’t have any defense so can get ganked. Once people learn to pvp and how to spec it’s not possible so what’s left? A glass canon free kill. The devs need to put their thinking caps on for how they want Stamblades to fit in the big picture. There’s no easy answer.

I do not gank with my NB. Im always surprised when I see people automatically assuming that you gank when you run a 2h/bow build or just see the class as a ganker class in general. I mean I can see why people think that (like 95% of NBs in cyro are gankers) but its not true for everyone.

Im saying what I have said in my previous post because the core skills that make stamNB such a good solo class (not talking about ganking) have not been touched. The only thing that might change is that our damage is probably going to be a bit lower than it used to be. All in all the class is good to go with some minor adjustment from the players side in my opinion.

Ah okay, I always assume Stamblades are archers or gankers. I’ve heard heavy Stamblades can work, but I’ve never seen it. I tried making a stamblade alt brawler but I sucked at it, I stopped playing the class feeling that stamblade lacked enough self healing to make it work.

Most of my views on stamblade in pvp come from BGs, where I’ve seen people complain in group chat when they see one, and never seen one perform well... well outside starter BGs. That and my pvp guild where stamblade is the only class/spec excluded from the guild, even though otherwise it’s not restrictive.

You do not even need to be a heavy NB to not play a ganker NB. Even medium armor NBs can Solo Open-World PvP just fine. You just gotta use terrain and kite more often than the heavy armor counterpart. In fact, I'd personally say that medium armor NBs have a hell of an easier time in solo open world than heavy NBs because of how elusive medium armor rollerblades are (from my own experience playing both). I do have to say that medium armor NB gets punished a lot harder for making mistakes when fighting outnumbered tho because of their rather squishy nature.

I dont know what kind of PvP your guild does but I could see why they dont like sNBs If they either A.) run organized bombgroups or B.) do alot of smallscale PvP. When it comes to point B then heavy NB might still be somewhat okay (though not really optimal) but medium armor is absolutely useless, especially when encountering organized enemy smallscale groups.

In my opinion sNB really shines in groups of 1-3 (when your party members are NBs aswell I should add). Atleast thats when I feel like NBs are the most effective. As soon as you run groups with classes that can actually stand their ground (aka being tanky) and don't rely on LOS and kiting so much, then medium sNB (heavy NB can somewhat function in such a group but its far from being BiS) effectiveness falls off.

Agreed. I think me saying Stamblades are one of the weakest pvp classes ruffled some feathers. Got ganked by two Stamblades a couple times in Cyrodiil, while 1 has zero chance of taking me down two can do it.

I also only play no CP. I think the dodge rolling trait and CP dodge rolling points help stamblade a lot. That plus crit modifier.

I’m guessing really. I only play non-CP like I said and am guessing as to why people say Stamblades are powerful, when amongst people who pvp a lot Nightblades are considered to be the weakest pvp class, with the exception of Magblade healers being good and magblades doing okay in cyrodiil If spec’d right.

On CP I know of several night blades that will almost instantl kill you with 32k armor DK and 27k health. You instantly roll dodge with a cancel animate vigor but your also major defiled. Your in execute range .. you die at the end of the roll dodge.

I have a nightblade honestly the 2nd easiest class to play in pvp with DK being 1st.

However I will admit the majority of Stamblades will hit you and you can turn around and blow them up. Out of all the classes Nightblades still are the class I feel at any moment can take me out with out warning. I have been playing a Stamplar nightblades are the bane of that class... Jabs are good at uncovering in no lag however in heavy lag they are of no use.

BoxFoxx

In my opinion they don't need to nerf the damage for NBs, as long as you can counter. I created a DK build specifically to counter NBs and what I've come to realise is that the problem is cloak. It's too cheap. I spend more resources (Radiant Magelight) trying to pull a NB out of cloak than being able to apply pressure on a NB. The fights go on and on until basically it comes down to sustain. NBs should not be able to sustain invisibility during a fight. Based on a NBs play style, if they can't make the kill off the get go, they should lose the fight. It's far too OP to be able to drop in and out of invisibility during combat.

My suggestion is to make Shadowy Disguise at least double the cost. You can make it last longer too if you like, that wouldn't be a problem and would allow PvE players to still find it useful... but any more than one or two times during a fight is far too OP.

BoxFoxx

... or it should work kind of similar to roll dodging, where it increases the cost if you use it too often.

BoxFoxx

...Radiant Magelight should also be cheaper.

akray21

Juhasow wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

I have not played in a while, but I was thinking about coming back until I saw these patch notes. When I was playing last I was one of the only heavy armor NB's running around Cyrodiil (this might have changed). In heavy armor I struggled for damage compared to my medium armor friends. People are saying that heavy armor NB will be the new style, being one myself I highly disagree… the new style will be to change classes.

Nerfs:
- Incap: loss of Major Defile
- Grim Focus: Minor Berserk AND Minor Endurance removed
- Cloak: cost increase AND healing/second decreased (33% over 3.5 seconds was far superior in PvP to 4.5%/second for 8 seconds).
- Surprise Attack: Major Fracture removed

Buffs:
- Grim Focus: up to 15% reduced damage taken

Wash:
- Ambush: Minor Vulnerability added (this is not a net buff as it somewhat offsets the nerf to Grim Focus).

The loss of Major Defile and Major Fracture is a massive dps loss that I don’t think a heavy armor NB can overcome. The change to cloak is a disaster to my play style as cloak was the main heal (along with Vigor), the new version does roughly half the amount of healing per second. The loss of minor berserk is somewhat offset by the change to ambush (addition of minor vulnerability), but this is a net nerf because an ability is required, and resources lost to apply the debuff (and it’s purgeable). In addition to this resource management hit, minor endurance was removed and a cost increase on cloak was implemented. The only icing on this *** cake is a theoretical 15% damage reduction with max stacks of grim focus (this is literally the only reason to use this ability on a heavy armor NB).

Umm wut ? For the record at the moment of posting it in PvP stamblade changes looks like :

1. Stamblade looses :
- fracture on supprise attack
- minor berserk and minor endurance on relentless focus
- defile on incap
- minor maim on mass hysteria
- dark cloak burst heal if You were that guy

2. Stamblade gets :
- no cost on mark
- vulnerability on ambush
- heal , 10 seconds more duration and up to 15% dmg mitigation on relentless focus
- something on incap (they've said they'll change mangle to something better)
- 4 more targets on mass hysteria (6 targets in total)
- 50% damage on power extracion (25% to base ability and 20% to morph is 50% in total)
- flanking penetration debuff on supprise attack
- shade dealing dmg based on higher stats

At the moment it's questionable will heavy armor stamblade really get nerfed in PvP in elsweyr or it'll be just change in playstyle that You need to adapt to but with more or less same effectivenes as it is right now which would be one of the worst balance attempts ZoS could pull of. Heavy armor stamblade in PvP needs nerfs and question is will he gets those because as for now it doesnt look that bad for that particular playstyle. I dont know when was the last time You've been running Your heavy armor stamblade in PvP but that must've been long time ago since heavy armor stamblade is doing really well in PvP since over a year atleast.

Removal of cost on mark is basically attempting to make up for the loss of fracture on surprise attack. Problem is it takes a bar slot that I don't have, something will have to be pushed off.

Vulnerability on ambush is worse than minor brutality on relentless focus.

The heal on relentless is extremely minute for the time and effort it takes to proc the heal, I'm talking only like a 600hp heal for landing 5 light attacks... meaningless.

Power extraction doesn't have a slot on the bar, simply no room.

Flanking pen on surprise attack is obviously worse than major fracture.

Shade damage is inconsequential with the build, shade is used for movement, not damage.

If we had 20 bar slots things would be different, but we have 10.

thankyourat

I don't feel heavy armor stamblade will be good in the next update. The things that made it strong, dark Cloak, minor beserk, defile on incap, and fracture on surprise attack have all been nerfed. It will be tanky but I'm not seeing where the kill potential will come from. I'm not seeing anything that will make heavy armor stamblade better than the other stamina classes in heavy

akray21

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't feel heavy armor stamblade will be good in the next update. The things that made it strong, dark Cloak, minor beserk, defile on incap, and fracture on surprise attack have all been nerfed. It will be tanky but I'm not seeing where the kill potential will come from. I'm not seeing anything that will make heavy armor stamblade better than the other stamina classes in heavy

^this one gets it! Tanky, but no damage.

mursie

i agree with others. nb will change gear and still gank like always.

5pc night mothers gaze
2pc slime craw
5pc shackle/bone/spriggan

outcome will be the same. those with 23K or less health will get ganked.

in group play, they'll be garbage. already are. will further continue to be.

Juhasow

akray21 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

I have not played in a while, but I was thinking about coming back until I saw these patch notes. When I was playing last I was one of the only heavy armor NB's running around Cyrodiil (this might have changed). In heavy armor I struggled for damage compared to my medium armor friends. People are saying that heavy armor NB will be the new style, being one myself I highly disagree… the new style will be to change classes.

Nerfs:
- Incap: loss of Major Defile
- Grim Focus: Minor Berserk AND Minor Endurance removed
- Cloak: cost increase AND healing/second decreased (33% over 3.5 seconds was far superior in PvP to 4.5%/second for 8 seconds).
- Surprise Attack: Major Fracture removed

Buffs:
- Grim Focus: up to 15% reduced damage taken

Wash:
- Ambush: Minor Vulnerability added (this is not a net buff as it somewhat offsets the nerf to Grim Focus).

The loss of Major Defile and Major Fracture is a massive dps loss that I don’t think a heavy armor NB can overcome. The change to cloak is a disaster to my play style as cloak was the main heal (along with Vigor), the new version does roughly half the amount of healing per second. The loss of minor berserk is somewhat offset by the change to ambush (addition of minor vulnerability), but this is a net nerf because an ability is required, and resources lost to apply the debuff (and it’s purgeable). In addition to this resource management hit, minor endurance was removed and a cost increase on cloak was implemented. The only icing on this *** cake is a theoretical 15% damage reduction with max stacks of grim focus (this is literally the only reason to use this ability on a heavy armor NB).

Umm wut ? For the record at the moment of posting it in PvP stamblade changes looks like :

1. Stamblade looses :
- fracture on supprise attack
- minor berserk and minor endurance on relentless focus
- defile on incap
- minor maim on mass hysteria
- dark cloak burst heal if You were that guy

2. Stamblade gets :
- no cost on mark
- vulnerability on ambush
- heal , 10 seconds more duration and up to 15% dmg mitigation on relentless focus
- something on incap (they've said they'll change mangle to something better)
- 4 more targets on mass hysteria (6 targets in total)
- 50% damage on power extracion (25% to base ability and 20% to morph is 50% in total)
- flanking penetration debuff on supprise attack
- shade dealing dmg based on higher stats

At the moment it's questionable will heavy armor stamblade really get nerfed in PvP in elsweyr or it'll be just change in playstyle that You need to adapt to but with more or less same effectivenes as it is right now which would be one of the worst balance attempts ZoS could pull of. Heavy armor stamblade in PvP needs nerfs and question is will he gets those because as for now it doesnt look that bad for that particular playstyle. I dont know when was the last time You've been running Your heavy armor stamblade in PvP but that must've been long time ago since heavy armor stamblade is doing really well in PvP since over a year atleast.

Removal of cost on mark is basically attempting to make up for the loss of fracture on surprise attack. Problem is it takes a bar slot that I don't have, something will have to be pushed off.

Vulnerability on ambush is worse than minor brutality on relentless focus.

The heal on relentless is extremely minute for the time and effort it takes to proc the heal, I'm talking only like a 600hp heal for landing 5 light attacks... meaningless.

Power extraction doesn't have a slot on the bar, simply no room.

Flanking pen on surprise attack is obviously worse than major fracture.

Shade damage is inconsequential with the build, shade is used for movement, not damage.

If we had 20 bar slots things would be different, but we have 10.

Mark gives fracture+breach(good for group play)+burst heal on kill+detection or major berserk and more healing on kill. That is definietly more then just fracture from supprise attack and it's free. It can be used in many different ways to compensate for loss of fracture on supprise attack. As for bar slots have You ever heared about adapting ? It looks like You simply cannot live with stamblade loosing goodies and having a need to adapt to be as effective as it was.

Relentless focus does not have minor brutality it have minor berserk and from raw damage done perspective vulnerability beats berserk due to how calculations for damage buffs and debuffs are applied (buffs are additive debuffs multiplicative).

Heal is just one part of the change. 10 more seconds of duration , heal and mitigation is full context of the buffs. Also properly used it'll be way more then 600.

Power extraction will hit similarly or maybe even stronger then steel tornado after changes with similar radius with the chance to apply disease status effect so lot of stamblades that are using steel tornado atm including heavy armor builds will try power extraction. It'll also open opportunity to have strong AoE high dmg ability like steel tornado for setups without dual wield.

Flanking pen from supprise attack can be stacked with pen from fracture and if only stamblade had some free major fracture debuff...oh wait. For stam,blades that will choose to have acces to major fracture it's a buff.

On stamina builds shade is used for movement because it deals barely any damage but since it deals damage now it'll deal more of it so it's pure gain. Saying that shade damage doesnt matter because nightblades use shade for teleport is like saying that flying pet dmg on petsorc doesnt matter because petsorcs are using it for heal lol.

Well nobody can have everything and currently stamblade is overloaded with good stuff to be honest so fact he'll loose some thing here and there wont hurt that miuch especially that some of those things are getting compensated somwhere else. Learn to adapt I guess because future for heavy armor stamblades doesnt seem so bad.