Stamblade PVP future

ruikkarikun

As what I saw from todays notes, they remove minor berserk, fracture from surprice and defile from death stroke .
What do you think will be with stamnb next patch according to current view?
What setups do you expect?
How bad is it?

Insco851

Bad. Lol

That’s a ton of added damage. Stamblade will get the minor buff to ambush which will help make up some of the loss but it’s still pretty bad.

Fracture is like 8% dmg, minor berserk another 8%.... major defile... pffft

Slot dawny

BaylorCorvette

Insco851 wrote: »

Slot dawny

Not to mention DB damage got buffed a little bit.

Thogard

SnB / 2h heavy armor NB will be OP

ATomiX96

Stamblades are gonna be fine still, just not as overpowered as they were in the current patches, but what really bothers me are those nerfs hit medium nightblades harder than heavy nightblades with 1hs, 1hs can just slot ransack and now get an unique 5% penetration buff on top, idk what to think of that.
1HS also still has access to major defile through reverberating bash, which medium playstyles dont have as consistently.
Im sure people will adapt to the loss of major fracture somehow, maybe with reapers mark?
The heal and the major berserk after killing a target seem good, just in previous patches it felt like a waste of a slot because you had access to 100% uptime on major fracture through surprise attack and for magblades, you'd simply just run elemental drain which does basicly the same, doesnt cost anything, but also gives you a whopping 600 flat mag regen.
What they could still do is, decrease the cost of it and increase the major berserk window to like 8 seconds from the current 5 and then it actually has a chance of being a viable ability.
And lastly, I also dont like how they "compensated" with minor vulnerability on spambush (and morphs) for the loss of minor berserk on grim focus and morphs.

Nerftheforums

It was ***. The nerfed the *** out of medblades and buffed heavyblades. Just go heavy armor snb, it has been the most effective build type since 3 years now, now you have no reason to keep playing medium.

Curtdogg47

When people still die to NB’s next patch after we have been F’d in the A! Then maybe they finally can admit they suck!

But hey I’m not mad or salty! I have faith that ZOS over looked something and when we NB’s find the right combo of sets, stats and skills we will be back to ganking the *** out of people in PVP!

Luckylancer

Hits are big but not non adaptable. Stamblade was way too overtuned to begin with.

Bergzorn

Surprise Attack lost Major Fracture but got a debuff that can be stacked with Fracture.

Unfadingsilence

Nothing more than a L2P and learn to adapt post honestly

jaime1982

Next need to stop heals/regen while cloaked or let dots take hp but not reveal.

ruikkarikun

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

Nothing more than a L2P and learn to adapt post honestly

Bone pirate/spriggan will still be an option? I have some transmute crystals and think where to spend them, but don't want to waste before patch if it won't work.

GreenSoup2HoT

Just slap on Ward of Cryodill, Slime Claw and slot siphoning strikes. Bam nothing has changed.

techprince

It was long overdue.

Ragnaroek93

Thogard wrote: »

SnB / 2h heavy armor NB will be OP

Yeah great, I created a rogue character because I always wanted to play a tank. And even that needs to be tested out if heavy Nb is still good...

Hexyl

The NB feature is the most stupid thing i see in this game.

The gameplay "Rogue" of NB as it should be does not exist

You're a NB and want to play like a Sin/Rogue.
ZOS : Well ok, you should invest in stamina and medium armor if you want to be stealthy and strong. And more, you'll get a good heal.

You : Ok nice, i go for stam and med.
ZOS : Buuuuuut, you'll lose your shadowy cloak cause it's pure magic.

You : Hmm, may be i should just go for magic and light ? Also i have good melee skill with stun and an execute.
ZOS : Yeah, but if you go magic you'll be less stealthy.

You : Uh ? Why ? I would be lighter..
ZOS : That's life. Oh and you'll lose your good heal, and also you'll loose your good ambush engagement. (ZOS : Mouhahaha we got him). And more, you need the resto staff now if you want some heal.

You: But, i'm a rogue..
ZOS : Yeah but you need the resto staff. that's all. Oh, and yeah for your 2nd weap, you'll lose the ability to play with a bow if you go magic ;D.

You : WTFF... Ok then i'll go stam.
ZOS : Uhuh. but don't forget fear, cloak, shadow image, grim focus, mark target. You need magicka ! But you'll do less damage ;D.

..
Well you understand that all the NB class is broken as hell for rogue gameplay in this game. Players who continue to play as it, try to be a rogue with devious way and some OP proc set. That's all. And they use just 1 or 2 skill from NB.

Kikke

Adapt.

ItsNebula

Nightblade mains are freaking out because they have 0 idea how to play any other play style. It’s quite funny if you ask me. sNB have no idea what diversity is.

Now they’ll have to debate between running SnB/2H, SnB/DW, SnB/Bow (I’ve made this work very well before actually) etc etc.

sNB might actually learn to play a different play style after 5 years. I’m very pleased with these patch notes

Blinkin8r

To all the toxic people saying L2P get a life. The OP is asking other nightblades how bad they think the nerfs are, and what new setups might be used. That's not a L2P that's a legit question. Some people man...

Janoy

@Hexyl what are you complaining for? Every stam class uses some mag skills?

grannas211

Hexyl wrote: »

The NB feature is the most stupid thing i see in this game.

The gameplay "Rogue" of NB as it should be does not exist

You're a NB and want to play like a Sin/Rogue.
ZOS : Well ok, you should invest in stamina and medium armor if you want to be stealthy and strong. And more, you'll get a good heal.

You : Ok nice, i go for stam and med.
ZOS : Buuuuuut, you'll lose your shadowy cloack cause it's pure magic.

You : Hmm, may be i should just go for magic and light ? Also i have good melee skill with stun and an execute.
ZOS : Yeah, but if you go magic you'll be less stealthy.

You : Uh ? Why ? I would be lighter..
ZOS : That's life. Oh and you'll lose your good heal, and also you'll loose your good ambush engagement. (ZOS : Mouhahaha we got him). And more, you need the resto staff now if you want some heal.

You: But, i'm a rogue..
ZOS : Yeah but you need the resto staff. that's all. Oh, and yeah for your 2nd weap, you'll lose the ability to play with a bow if you go magic ;D.

You : WTFF... Ok then i'll go stam.
ZOS : Uhuh. but don't forget fear, cloack, shadow image, grim focus, mark target. You need magicka ! But you'll do less damage ;D.

..
Well you understand that all the NB class is broken as hell for rogue gameplay in this game. Players who continue to play as it, try to be a rogue with devious way and some OP proc set. That's all. And they use just 1 or 2 skill from NB.

This is literally every class in the game.

evoniee

i just swap relentless to ambush in pvp.
it will be a little hard to lose major fracture and suck to 1v1 a good player with ambush slotted since gap closer not even needed.
shade and psijic ult not work smoothly and make me tilt and play even worse.

i still can reach k/d like 80(mixed)/20 by killing plebs in the 5th anniversary event by purely 1vx at bruma in AD char. most of the time psijic ult not worked and killed me.

Strider__Roshin

ItsNebula wrote: »

Nightblade mains are freaking out because they have 0 idea how to play any other play style. It’s quite funny if you ask me. sNB have no idea what diversity is.

Now they’ll have to debate between running SnB/2H, SnB/DW, SnB/Bow (I’ve made this work very well before actually) etc etc.

sNB might actually learn to play a different play style after 5 years. I’m very pleased with these patch notes

The nerfs are unjustified. I've played with every spec in this game, and the only thing about Nightblades I felt was too strong was Shadowy Disguise. What did they do? Destroy the class and didn't even bother addressing the one thing they should have.

Kadoin

Hexyl wrote: »

The NB feature is the most stupid thing i see in this game.

The gameplay "Rogue" of NB as it should be does not exist

You're a NB and want to play like a Sin/Rogue.
ZOS : Well ok, you should invest in stamina and medium armor if you want to be stealthy and strong. And more, you'll get a good heal.

You : Ok nice, i go for stam and med.
ZOS : Buuuuuut, you'll lose your shadowy cloack cause it's pure magic.

You : Hmm, may be i should just go for magic and light ? Also i have good melee skill with stun and an execute.
ZOS : Yeah, but if you go magic you'll be less stealthy.

You : Uh ? Why ? I would be lighter..
ZOS : That's life. Oh and you'll lose your good heal, and also you'll loose your good ambush engagement. (ZOS : Mouhahaha we got him). And more, you need the resto staff now if you want some heal.

You: But, i'm a rogue..
ZOS : Yeah but you need the resto staff. that's all. Oh, and yeah for your 2nd weap, you'll lose the ability to play with a bow if you go magic ;D.

You : WTFF... Ok then i'll go stam.
ZOS : Uhuh. but don't forget fear, cloack, shadow image, grim focus, mark target. You need magicka ! But you'll do less damage ;D.

..
Well you understand that all the NB class is broken as hell for rogue gameplay in this game. Players who continue to play as it, try to be a rogue with devious way and some OP proc set. That's all. And they use just 1 or 2 skill from NB.

If you seriously min-max in PvP instead of allowing flexibility in your build, then you should enjoy the consequences. There's a difference between something being impossible and you simply not wanting to make any concessions. You don't want to make concessions, so you have to pay the price for them in either your build or gameplay, just like every other class in the game.

I have no idea what your build is, but if you aren't happy with it and find it flawed, then change it to what you want. PvP is not PvE and there's more than one solution to a build problem.

Hexyl

Kadoin wrote: »

Hexyl wrote: »

The NB feature is the most stupid thing i see in this game.

The gameplay "Rogue" of NB as it should be does not exist

You're a NB and want to play like a Sin/Rogue.
ZOS : Well ok, you should invest in stamina and medium armor if you want to be stealthy and strong. And more, you'll get a good heal.

You : Ok nice, i go for stam and med.
ZOS : Buuuuuut, you'll lose your shadowy cloack cause it's pure magic.

You : Hmm, may be i should just go for magic and light ? Also i have good melee skill with stun and an execute.
ZOS : Yeah, but if you go magic you'll be less stealthy.

You : Uh ? Why ? I would be lighter..
ZOS : That's life. Oh and you'll lose your good heal, and also you'll loose your good ambush engagement. (ZOS : Mouhahaha we got him). And more, you need the resto staff now if you want some heal.

You: But, i'm a rogue..
ZOS : Yeah but you need the resto staff. that's all. Oh, and yeah for your 2nd weap, you'll lose the ability to play with a bow if you go magic ;D.

You : WTFF... Ok then i'll go stam.
ZOS : Uhuh. but don't forget fear, cloack, shadow image, grim focus, mark target. You need magicka ! But you'll do less damage ;D.

..
Well you understand that all the NB class is broken as hell for rogue gameplay in this game. Players who continue to play as it, try to be a rogue with devious way and some OP proc set. That's all. And they use just 1 or 2 skill from NB.

If you seriously min-max in PvP instead of allowing flexibility in your build, then you should enjoy the consequences. There's a difference between something being impossible and you simply not wanting to make any concessions. You don't want to make concessions, so you have to pay the price for them in either your build or gameplay, just like every other class in the game.

I have no idea what your build is, but if you aren't happy with it and find it flawed, then change it to what you want. PvP is not PvE and there's more than one solution to a build problem.

Concessions ? NB have passiv ability relative to invisibility and sneak. Don't play with them cause it's broken is like deny your entire class. NB can't play without cloak. Or just threw up your passives. But you better play a DK.

They are no "freaking out" to play another playstyle. They can't.

Use plaster to make this class work will not make me think there is no problem with the character design

Sgt_Skittles

Hexyl wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Hexyl wrote: »

The NB feature is the most stupid thing i see in this game.

The gameplay "Rogue" of NB as it should be does not exist

You're a NB and want to play like a Sin/Rogue.
ZOS : Well ok, you should invest in stamina and medium armor if you want to be stealthy and strong. And more, you'll get a good heal.

You : Ok nice, i go for stam and med.
ZOS : Buuuuuut, you'll lose your shadowy cloack cause it's pure magic.

You : Hmm, may be i should just go for magic and light ? Also i have good melee skill with stun and an execute.
ZOS : Yeah, but if you go magic you'll be less stealthy.

You : Uh ? Why ? I would be lighter..
ZOS : That's life. Oh and you'll lose your good heal, and also you'll loose your good ambush engagement. (ZOS : Mouhahaha we got him). And more, you need the resto staff now if you want some heal.

You: But, i'm a rogue..
ZOS : Yeah but you need the resto staff. that's all. Oh, and yeah for your 2nd weap, you'll lose the ability to play with a bow if you go magic ;D.

You : WTFF... Ok then i'll go stam.
ZOS : Uhuh. but don't forget fear, cloack, shadow image, grim focus, mark target. You need magicka ! But you'll do less damage ;D.

..
Well you understand that all the NB class is broken as hell for rogue gameplay in this game. Players who continue to play as it, try to be a rogue with devious way and some OP proc set. That's all. And they use just 1 or 2 skill from NB.

If you seriously min-max in PvP instead of allowing flexibility in your build, then you should enjoy the consequences. There's a difference between something being impossible and you simply not wanting to make any concessions. You don't want to make concessions, so you have to pay the price for them in either your build or gameplay, just like every other class in the game.

I have no idea what your build is, but if you aren't happy with it and find it flawed, then change it to what you want. PvP is not PvE and there's more than one solution to a build problem.

Concessions ? NB have passiv ability relative to invisibility and sneak. Don't play with them cause it's broken is like deny your entire class. NB can't play without cloak. Or just threw up your passives. But you better play a DK.

There are no "freaking out" to play another playstyle. They can't.

Use plaster to make this class work will not make me think there is no problem with the character design

You can absolutely play a NB without cloak or sneak. Had a Magblade that did that exact thing. It's a matter of learning to play with your skill set. Cloak is a nice to have, immensely strong skill, but it's all but a necessity. Just because _you_ don't know how to play without cloak, doesn't mean it's impossible. NightBlades will be fine, they will either adapt or if they're unwilling, play different classes. Nothing much will change, they'll just have to make decisions. Major fracture can still be gotten, major Defile can still be gotten, either through skills or simply poisons, minor berserk can still be gained through Slimecraw. Every class faces nerfs because they overperform, every class adapts. This time it's the Nightblade's turn to get hit. Only thing I find a shame is that they want to force magblades into melee set-ups, but as everyone, just a matter of adapting. Either change skills, gear or simply accept losing certain buffs or debuffs. It's a matter or choice.

Hexyl

Lol, so if you buy a car with 4 wheels and Zos take off one, you'll say : Ok. I'll adapt.

I understand i understand.. i need to learn how to play a rogue without be a rogue.
..

At least, we need other passives skill.. not based on gank burst.

olsborg

It seems like they want every stambuild to use dawnbreaker for some reason ^^

MartiniDaniels

Daus wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

Nightblade mains are freaking out because they have 0 idea how to play any other play style. It’s quite funny if you ask me. sNB have no idea what diversity is.

Now they’ll have to debate between running SnB/2H, SnB/DW, SnB/Bow (I’ve made this work very well before actually) etc etc.

sNB might actually learn to play a different play style after 5 years. I’m very pleased with these patch notes

The nerfs are unjustified. I've played with every spec in this game, and the only thing about Nightblades I felt was too strong was Shadowy Disguise. What did they do? Destroy the class and didn't even bother addressing the one thing they should have.

^ This. As I can see devs wanna nerf/remove hard counters, like DK wings, Sorc's pets, Major protection, Shield-breaker, Warden snares and combo-shalks etc, because it's unpleasant to play against hard counter, ok, there is logic in that.. and what they do to NB's ability which is hard counter almost to anything if spammed and potion is on cd? They even buff cloak (duration will be 3.5% longer) and heavily nerf whole class both PVP and PVE and especially magblade.
All they needed to do is add escalating cost to cloak, similar to streak/dodge.. no cloak spamming, no problem, surprise attack is still possible but for next 5 seconds NB will be seen or suffer increased cost of cloak.

Izaki

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Stamblades are gonna be fine still, just not as overpowered as they were in the current patches, but what really bothers me are those nerfs hit medium nightblades harder than heavy nightblades with 1hs, 1hs can just slot ransack and now get an unique 5% penetration buff on top, idk what to think of that.
1HS also still has access to major defile through reverberating bash, which medium playstyles dont have as consistently.
Im sure people will adapt to the loss of major fracture somehow, maybe with reapers mark?
The heal and the major berserk after killing a target seem good, just in previous patches it felt like a waste of a slot because you had access to 100% uptime on major fracture through surprise attack and for magblades, you'd simply just run elemental drain which does basicly the same, doesnt cost anything, but also gives you a whopping 600 flat mag regen.
What they could still do is, decrease the cost of it and increase the major berserk window to like 8 seconds from the current 5 and then it actually has a chance of being a viable ability.
And lastly, I also dont like how they "compensated" with minor vulnerability on spambush (and morphs) for the loss of minor berserk on grim focus and morphs.

Reapers Mark is not worth slotting as it is now. Its a crap skill. What they've done with SA is the same thing they did with Frags. One ability was total crap (Crystal Blast) so they put the stun there "so that people would use it". This is the same thing, except Mark wasn't even changed into something remotely useful. There are better things to slot instead of Mark. Wasting 1 GCD just to put up Major Fracture isn't worth it in any solo content. Plus you can only put it on 1 target. It doesn't even proc the Hemorrhage passive upon use. Compare Mark to ANY other ability that gives out Major debuffs and anyone would instantly see how much it sucks.

I don't understand why they take away Minor Berserk to give us Minor Vulnerability. One is just useful all the time, including in vMA, whereas the other is only useful in PvP. Stamblade was overtuned in PvP. Why buff a PvP only skill?

What would I do?

Move Veiled Strike to Assassination. Move Blur to Shadow. Keep Major Fracture on SA but reduce it to 5 sec (while also giving Concealed Weapon Major Breach). Take away Minor Vulnerability all together from Teleport Strike morphs and find something less OP to put on that skill. Remove the heal from Grim Focus morphs and instead give 30 sec duration to both while also giving Minor Endurace/Intellect to both morphs respectively (the first cast is still pretty much an empty cast, so that's kind of stupid but at least its worth slotting). Change Mark altogether to something that is actually useful and so that it doesn't function only upon killing an enemy, there are lots of options: increasing the damage of your next attack to the target, increasing your weapon/spell damage against the target, increasing your all your damage against the target, reducing the target's armor by a couple of %, and make it usable on an unlimited amount of targets. Or you could scrap the skill altogether and replace it with a skill that's useful for Tanking. Remove the increased duration for Heavy Armor pieces worn from Shadow Barrier and increase the duration by 2 seconds at Rank 2 (to 8 seconds, buffing Light and Medium armor blades while nerfing Heavy armor blades).

That does a lot of good things: makes Blur an interesting skill vs all other forms of Major Evasion and Snare/Immobility removal with the addition of Shadow passives. Removes the Resistance buffs (and all other Shadow passives) from Surprise Attack which means that you won't get resistances just by spamming your spammable ability, which leaves you more vulnerable to counter burst and forces you to use defensive skills like Blur, Cloak and Shadow image more. The Shadow Barrier change alone would nerf Heavy Armor blades quite a bit who are the most troublesome. Magblades will see a buff in the form of Merciless Resolve giving extra sustain and Concealed Weapon giving Major Breach giving them more options in different situations. Teleport Strike won't be OP and ZOS won't have to nerf it next patch after all the "Spambush" complaints.

Dunning_Kruger

Thogard wrote: »

SnB / 2h heavy armor NB will be OP

Also with the change to blur they will have snare removal and major evasion on the same ability whilst in heavy. This class will be a juggernaut to take down. If you play the true way of 2h / S&B