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Revert Faction Locks. We've Been Through This Already
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Agrippa_Invisus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »For years, the same people who have been hammering ZOS for not playing their game, having no clue, making irresponsible decisions now all of a sudden are white knighting ZOS, trying to convince everyone that they carefully sorted through the "numbers" and responsibly considered all the implications? At least this thread is amusing.
You got your way. Just gloat rather than trying to sell us on what ZOS is doing. That's their job. We will soon see if the change and the gloating is justified.
The cognitive dissonance I've been getting from all this 'ZOS knows exactly what they're doing' is jarring.
ZOS has a looooooooooooooong track record of poor development decisions once their live service was handed over from the original dev team to the live team. Credit to the original developers as to how good of a game they made that so many of us have stuck around, even after the wrecking ball of the lighting patch through poor game balance and PVP being ignored for literal years.
Appealing to authority is a fallacy for a reason, and ZOS is a very poor authority to base an argument on. They are thoroughly discredited through their own actions, past and present.Edited by Agrippa_Invisus on May 15, 2019 3:25PMAgrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
DragonKnight / Templar / Warden / Sorcerer - Vagabond
Once a General, now a Citizen
Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!3 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DC will be absorbed by the other two factions... I'm calling it now. It's already happening to an extent and they are crumbling.
Guess I will be stuck, staring down the purple horde, because I am going nowhere until my characters can be flipped with a faction change and they then make me do it. Nothing against the other factions, but this would be bad for the game and already is when players would rather go for easy wins rather than a healthy game.Edited by technohic on May 15, 2019 3:30PM0 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »So essentially every 30 days there is a slight possibility that the server could become balanced providing several guilds from the dominating faction completely re roll to another faction, remain on the same server and coordinate server wide to ensure that not too many guilds from the dominating faction re roll to the same faction at the same time? Seems a bit much to me. I play and prefer non CP, where is my non CP option?
Well, to each their own, everyone can still play as they did, there will be campaign with locks, and there will be campaigns that dosent have locks...
Except non CP and if you prefer a 30 day campaign right? I don't think many would care if ZOS gave YOU the option by providing a locked campaign instead of dictating to everyone else where and how to play. See the irony here?
I gotta agree that the way zos is implementing this is weird. There should be a non-locked no CP, full stop.
Before zos went down this road, I suggested instead of locks, there should be better incentives to stay faction loyal. But they went the other direction. Frankly, locking two 7 day campaigns and keeping 30 day as is makes a ton more sense to me.
All that aside, I'd be thoroughly surprised if @Joy_Division is correct and they haven't looked at any numbers at all before making this change. The only responsible thing for zos to have done, would have been at least look at 1 faction players against multi-faction players. That would give them a baseline for a change like this.
I also think there is a bigger process going on here and that is to eventually end the 3 banners war and institute another mode of open world pvp. For the war to end, there needs to be a victor, and perhaps campaign locks are to establish that.
Let's assume ZOS somehow has these numbers of all my individual /play for all my characters while in Cyrodiil, sorted them according to alliance, and then compared them ... and then proceeded to do this with thousands of players across multiple platforms and servers. What of them? ZOS has *no context* for what those numbers mean. Or are you going to be so biased to assume that because the "numbers" indicate I played EP for a total of 2456 minutes and AD for 1987 minutes, that automatically means I'm AP boosting, spying, turning around siege, handing off scrolls to my friends, etc.? They have zero idea what those numbers mean so they are meaningless. Yeah ZOS, thanks for being Big Brother. You figured out I like to play with my AD friends during primetime and my EP Aussie friends overnight. To which of the 8 divines should I repent for my sins?
For years, the same people who have been hammering ZOS for not playing their game, having no clue, making irresponsible decisions now all of a sudden are white knighting ZOS, trying to convince everyone that they carefully sorted through the "numbers" and responsibly considered all the implications? At least this thread is amusing.
You got your way. Just gloat rather than trying to sell us on what ZOS is doing. That's their job. We will soon see if the change and the gloating is justified.
I'm sorry if I came off the wrong way, I have nothing but respect for what you've done for the game @Joy_Division . I was saying at the very least zos "should" know how many accounts actively play one faction vs how many play multiple factions. It would be odd for an AAA mmo dev team to make this kind of decision solely based on the tiny bit of the population that use the forum regularly. If they did this on a whim it is definitely not a good sign.
I have no commentary on what individuals do when they play multiple factions on the same campaign, and I think locks are the wrong way to handle the problems but this is what they've decided. Like I said in my earlier post, I will be severely disappointed if this were a "on a whim" decision without any data."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard1 -
bulbousb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
HAHAHAHA.... that's absurd. People cheat because it is EASY and it isn't actively discouraged. Faction locks will prevent this. I can't imagine ANYONE, even the most hardened cheaters, would bother to go and spend $40 just so they could go out and spam Forward Camps. Get a grip.kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »You know, I'm not done yet. This pro lock argument has more holes in it than a piece of swiss cheese. Two words completely debunk everything that is supposedly fixed with faction lock....MULTIPLE ACCOUNT.
Lethal zergling3 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »So essentially every 30 days there is a slight possibility that the server could become balanced providing several guilds from the dominating faction completely re roll to another faction, remain on the same server and coordinate server wide to ensure that not too many guilds from the dominating faction re roll to the same faction at the same time? Seems a bit much to me. I play and prefer non CP, where is my non CP option?
Well, to each their own, everyone can still play as they did, there will be campaign with locks, and there will be campaigns that dosent have locks...
Except non CP and if you prefer a 30 day campaign right? I don't think many would care if ZOS gave YOU the option by providing a locked campaign instead of dictating to everyone else where and how to play. See the irony here?
I gotta agree that the way zos is implementing this is weird. There should be a non-locked no CP, full stop.
Before zos went down this road, I suggested instead of locks, there should be better incentives to stay faction loyal. But they went the other direction. Frankly, locking two 7 day campaigns and keeping 30 day as is makes a ton more sense to me.
All that aside, I'd be thoroughly surprised if @Joy_Division is correct and they haven't looked at any numbers at all before making this change. The only responsible thing for zos to have done, would have been at least look at 1 faction players against multi-faction players. That would give them a baseline for a change like this.
I also think there is a bigger process going on here and that is to eventually end the 3 banners war and institute another mode of open world pvp. For the war to end, there needs to be a victor, and perhaps campaign locks are to establish that.
Let's assume ZOS somehow has these numbers of all my individual /play for all my characters while in Cyrodiil, sorted them according to alliance, and then compared them ... and then proceeded to do this with thousands of players across multiple platforms and servers. What of them? ZOS has *no context* for what those numbers mean. Or are you going to be so biased to assume that because the "numbers" indicate I played EP for a total of 2456 minutes and AD for 1987 minutes, that automatically means I'm AP boosting, spying, turning around siege, handing off scrolls to my friends, etc.? They have zero idea what those numbers mean so they are meaningless. Yeah ZOS, thanks for being Big Brother. You figured out I like to play with my AD friends during primetime and my EP Aussie friends overnight. To which of the 8 divines should I repent for my sins?
For years, the same people who have been hammering ZOS for not playing their game, having no clue, making irresponsible decisions now all of a sudden are white knighting ZOS, trying to convince everyone that they carefully sorted through the "numbers" and responsibly considered all the implications? At least this thread is amusing.
You got your way. Just gloat rather than trying to sell us on what ZOS is doing. That's their job. We will soon see if the change and the gloating is justified.
I'm sorry if I came off the wrong way, I have nothing but respect for what you've done for the game @Joy_Division . I was saying at the very least zos "should" know how many accounts actively play one faction vs how many play multiple factions. It would be odd for an AAA mmo dev team to make this kind of decision solely based on the tiny bit of the population that use the forum regularly. If they did this on a whim it is definitely not a good sign.
I have no commentary on what individuals do when they play multiple factions on the same campaign, and I think locks are the wrong way to handle the problems but this is what they've decided. Like I said in my earlier post, I will be severely disappointed if this were a "on a whim" decision without any data.
I know you had good intentions and are just trying to communicate some of the reasons why ZOs might have done this. My response is more directed at the people who insist on trying to sell me why ZOS did this when it is not what ZOS already told us and does not stand up to scrutiny.
How does ZOS even interpret the data is they know a lot of accounts are playing multiple factions? If that is happening, then it;s not automatically bad: it could be interpreted as popular feature that they themselves encouraged years ago with One Tamriel. That's the point; it's not as black and white as the people are making it out to be.
I wouldn't say their decision was made on a whim. The know they need to do something for Cyrodiil, and as this particular issue has been a squeaky wheel for at least the past year, this was a low-resource reform they opted for because in their mind having a unlocked campaign is enough of a compromise. They believe their solution accommodates how everyone wants to play, which is why they aren't going to change it until they have actual proof on Live that it does not.
We're just going to have to see how it play out on Live.
Edited by Joy_Division on May 15, 2019 6:49PMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.1 -
kpittsniperb14_ESO✭✭✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
HAHAHAHA.... that's absurd. People cheat because it is EASY and it isn't actively discouraged. Faction locks will prevent this. I can't imagine ANYONE, even the most hardened cheaters, would bother to go and spend $40 just so they could go out and spam Forward Camps. Get a grip.kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »You know, I'm not done yet. This pro lock argument has more holes in it than a piece of swiss cheese. Two words completely debunk everything that is supposedly fixed with faction lock....MULTIPLE ACCOUNT.
Grip already gotten, this was happening from launch when we had faction locks and people were using multiple accounts to spy, steal scrolls and troll. Don't underestimate the people's motivation to manipulate and game the system, ZOS has for years and just look at where we are. And if you're still paying $40 for a copy of the base game then you're getting ripped off.Magicka DK-Rowsdowerr
Tertiary Meat GM
"they're going to say, there's Daniel and he has 20 people with him, I want to kill him and there's
40 more behind me."
"I'm tired of the BS excuses, if you're going to do what you do at least admit what you're doing"
YEEEEEAAAAAHHHH!!!1 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DC will be absorbed by the other two factions... I'm calling it now. It's already happening to an extent and they are crumbling.
I played EP originally at launch, eventually, when seeing that DC was extremely outnumbered and gated almost all day every day on the "main servers" (yes, this isn't an over-exaggeration, we spent hours and hours and hours usually trying to get Glade back so we could get off our gates), I rolled over to DC, and I will tell you that it really did hurt the PvP portion of the game a ton. Had it not been for faction hoppers, DC wouldn't have ever gotten things done. I always had a couple of Fair Weathers coming over from EP to help get some ground back, in my personal experience.
DC won't lack a presence, they do have guilds and loyal players there, but having the desire to see a faction "crumble" in a game that already has a dying PvP population is just...obscene. I'm not sure why you would want this game to be rough to play for a population of people? This sort of thing makes players quit, and, most of us besides a few people like you, don't want people to quit. This isn't an irl war, this is a video game. People log on and want to play for a little while, then log off and go back to their lives. This is an outlet. When people log-in (and this goes for oceanic pvp too - yes, I'm talking to you PC/NA AD players) and see themselves gated because their faction is underpopulated, most just log back off because, this might be a surprise, it's not fun to most people to not be able to fight back because of such low numbers.
I really wish the pro-faction lock people could understand that the PvP population in this game is just not there to support such a change. The only way faction locks are acceptable is if ZoS were to implement a means to balance the map out when one faction overly dominates the other ones (such as locking gate keeps at certain intervals, disabling emp flips at certain intervals, etc.).
Another point, just because I'm on a rant - the emp flipping in ESO happens on the dead campaigns, i.e. Shor. Not the main one.
Thanks.Edited by DisgracefulMind on May 15, 2019 10:16PMUnfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.5 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »$40 buys 4 copies of base game. Enough for an account on every faction.
As I understand it, this affects PC and PS4 the most. Xb1 requires a separate Xbox live account for each game account, which of course is a monthly sub as well. I can't imagine too many on xb1 are going to such lengths, outside of botters and third party gold sellers.
Hard core griefers and trolls will still find a way for sure, but hopefully this stops some of the problems. We'll just have to see how it plays out."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard1 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hard core griefers and trolls will ignore the AP cost penalty and just swap at will
Thats not my problem, again alot of people DONT want to play with faction hopping... ZOS fixes this... and no your not forced to do anything, you can play with likeminded on the servers that dosent have faction locks...
To give you a example this is your reasoning, i want to pvp, but i have no peopel to pvp with, so lets force all pve peopel to pvp also ?... do you understand that people have difren preference off play ?
wut?
If I read the above correctly, my problem is I am spoilt for choice for people to play with.I hav a preference, like alot of other people, we dont wat to play with faction hoppers, now what you do, is entirly up to you, you will have campaigns where you can faction hop inside, and what you do there i dont care...
Don't hate me because I have friends in different factions. Blame god for making me so damn lovable.
Given the lack of population (and this applies to off peak only, so large chunks of the world), I ask this hypothetical. When critical mass happens, and the map is painted, at that point you're either gating or gated, it doesn't matter, what are you going to do for PvP?
Again, don't suggest Shor. Or Sotha. They're PvDoor.
Thats still not my problem... you have a preference of play, deal with it, dont force others...
Why don't you take a dose of your own advice.
you will have options like everyone else...
Unless, of course, you have friends across factions who want to play in Vivec, then you're just out of luck....
Next cause of complaint: My faction is completely outnumbered at night and filthy nightcappers keep painting the map!
Then ask them sign up for same faction locked campaign as you, or play at one without faction locks ?
It's already been explained to you why this suggestion is stupid.2 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
HAHAHAHA.... that's absurd. People cheat because it is EASY and it isn't actively discouraged. Faction locks will prevent this. I can't imagine ANYONE, even the most hardened cheaters, would bother to go and spend $40 just so they could go out and spam Forward Camps. Get a grip.kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »You know, I'm not done yet. This pro lock argument has more holes in it than a piece of swiss cheese. Two words completely debunk everything that is supposedly fixed with faction lock....MULTIPLE ACCOUNT.
Grip already gotten, this was happening from launch when we had faction locks and people were using multiple accounts to spy, steal scrolls and troll. Don't underestimate the people's motivation to manipulate and game the system, ZOS has for years and just look at where we are. And if you're still paying $40 for a copy of the base game then you're getting ripped off.
You don't understand, this time it will be DIFFERENT. Faction locks will promote camaraderie, strategic gameplay, honesty, decency and righteousness. Zone chats will be a place of cheery, enlightening, good natured conversations between folk who truly admire and respect one another.
In the wider world, baby deer will eat from the palm of my hand, and bluebirds will land on my shoulder, and sing a song of good morning to me every day as I wake up. The skies shall never be grey, and miserable, and peace and harmony will descend upon the earth.8 -
TBois✭✭✭✭✭
✭kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
HAHAHAHA.... that's absurd. People cheat because it is EASY and it isn't actively discouraged. Faction locks will prevent this. I can't imagine ANYONE, even the most hardened cheaters, would bother to go and spend $40 just so they could go out and spam Forward Camps. Get a grip.kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »You know, I'm not done yet. This pro lock argument has more holes in it than a piece of swiss cheese. Two words completely debunk everything that is supposedly fixed with faction lock....MULTIPLE ACCOUNT.
Grip already gotten, this was happening from launch when we had faction locks and people were using multiple accounts to spy, steal scrolls and troll. Don't underestimate the people's motivation to manipulate and game the system, ZOS has for years and just look at where we are. And if you're still paying $40 for a copy of the base game then you're getting ripped off.
You don't understand, this time it will be DIFFERENT. Faction locks will promote camaraderie, strategic gameplay, honesty, decency and righteousness. Zone chats will be a place of cheery, enlightening, good natured conversations between folk who truly admire and respect one another.
In the wider world, baby deer will eat from the palm of my hand, and bluebirds will land on my shoulder, and sing a song of good morning to me every day as I wake up. The skies shall never be grey, and miserable, and peace and harmony will descend upon the earth.
That is exactly how it was when ESO first launched. All guilds on one faction would go out of their way to help each other. Elitists guilds would stop resource farming to go save pugs, and their were still deer in cyrodiil. (This is all sarcasm except for the deer.)PC/NA
T-Bois (Stam Sorc since 1.4) - AD
An Unsettling Snowball (Templar) - AD
Bosquecito (Stam Sorc) - DC
Peti-T-Bois (Stamden) - AD2 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
HAHAHAHA.... that's absurd. People cheat because it is EASY and it isn't actively discouraged. Faction locks will prevent this. I can't imagine ANYONE, even the most hardened cheaters, would bother to go and spend $40 just so they could go out and spam Forward Camps. Get a grip.kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »You know, I'm not done yet. This pro lock argument has more holes in it than a piece of swiss cheese. Two words completely debunk everything that is supposedly fixed with faction lock....MULTIPLE ACCOUNT.
Grip already gotten, this was happening from launch when we had faction locks and people were using multiple accounts to spy, steal scrolls and troll. Don't underestimate the people's motivation to manipulate and game the system, ZOS has for years and just look at where we are. And if you're still paying $40 for a copy of the base game then you're getting ripped off.
You don't understand, this time it will be DIFFERENT. Faction locks will promote camaraderie, strategic gameplay, honesty, decency and righteousness. Zone chats will be a place of cheery, enlightening, good natured conversations between folk who truly admire and respect one another.
In the wider world, baby deer will eat from the palm of my hand, and bluebirds will land on my shoulder, and sing a song of good morning to me every day as I wake up. The skies shall never be grey, and miserable, and peace and harmony will descend upon the earth.
@Mr_Walker
You have a gift for words good sir!
Maybe I've missed one of your posts, but going on a more constructive note, if (or when from the other position) faction lock does absolutely nothing to stop the AP boosting, which is what zos has hinted at as the reason for locks, what is an alternative solution?
I've suggested for a while that incentives instead of forced faction loyalty offer a better solution but it gets drowned out by the rightly emotional responses to this change.
What else could be done to improve the cyrodiil mess (in the context of faction locks, I don't want to rehash technical problems)?"It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard0 -
Miriel✭✭✭✭kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
HAHAHAHA.... that's absurd. People cheat because it is EASY and it isn't actively discouraged. Faction locks will prevent this. I can't imagine ANYONE, even the most hardened cheaters, would bother to go and spend $40 just so they could go out and spam Forward Camps. Get a grip.kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »You know, I'm not done yet. This pro lock argument has more holes in it than a piece of swiss cheese. Two words completely debunk everything that is supposedly fixed with faction lock....MULTIPLE ACCOUNT.
Grip already gotten, this was happening from launch when we had faction locks and people were using multiple accounts to spy, steal scrolls and troll. Don't underestimate the people's motivation to manipulate and game the system, ZOS has for years and just look at where we are. And if you're still paying $40 for a copy of the base game then you're getting ripped off.
You don't understand, this time it will be DIFFERENT. Faction locks will promote camaraderie, strategic gameplay, honesty, decency and righteousness. Zone chats will be a place of cheery, enlightening, good natured conversations between folk who truly admire and respect one another.
In the wider world, baby deer will eat from the palm of my hand, and bluebirds will land on my shoulder, and sing a song of good morning to me every day as I wake up. The skies shall never be grey, and miserable, and peace and harmony will descend upon the earth.
If you dont like faction locks, then go to a campaign that dosent have it... its called choise1 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
HAHAHAHA.... that's absurd. People cheat because it is EASY and it isn't actively discouraged. Faction locks will prevent this. I can't imagine ANYONE, even the most hardened cheaters, would bother to go and spend $40 just so they could go out and spam Forward Camps. Get a grip.kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »You know, I'm not done yet. This pro lock argument has more holes in it than a piece of swiss cheese. Two words completely debunk everything that is supposedly fixed with faction lock....MULTIPLE ACCOUNT.
Grip already gotten, this was happening from launch when we had faction locks and people were using multiple accounts to spy, steal scrolls and troll. Don't underestimate the people's motivation to manipulate and game the system, ZOS has for years and just look at where we are. And if you're still paying $40 for a copy of the base game then you're getting ripped off.
You don't understand, this time it will be DIFFERENT. Faction locks will promote camaraderie, strategic gameplay, honesty, decency and righteousness. Zone chats will be a place of cheery, enlightening, good natured conversations between folk who truly admire and respect one another.
In the wider world, baby deer will eat from the palm of my hand, and bluebirds will land on my shoulder, and sing a song of good morning to me every day as I wake up. The skies shall never be grey, and miserable, and peace and harmony will descend upon the earth.
@Mr_Walker
You have a gift for words good sir!
Maybe I've missed one of your posts, but going on a more constructive note, if (or when from the other position) faction lock does absolutely nothing to stop the AP boosting, which is what zos has hinted at as the reason for locks, what is an alternative solution?
What else could be done to improve the cyrodiil mess (in the context of faction locks, I don't want to rehash technical problems)?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/472126/re-thinking-ap-awards-for-keeps-holds-towns-and-resources
Something along these lines to create incentive to fight for AP rather than PvDoor for AP. PvDooring cannot be the fastest way to gain AP for anyone during any time frame.1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »Them locking the 30 day camp is just going to give a false positive on this “test.” It’s really dumb. Should have made shor the faction locked camp to see how many loyal faction players go there.
Instead this is just going to be longer queues for Vivec thus making people think most players want faction lock when in reality people are going there because it’s the only action.
Although this could easily give a false negative.0 -
Ahtu✭✭✭✭DC will be absorbed by the other two factions... I'm calling it now. It's already happening to an extent and they are crumbling.
Guess I will be stuck, staring down the purple horde, because I am going nowhere until my characters can be flipped with a faction change and they then make me do it. Nothing against the other factions, but this would be bad for the game and already is when players would rather go for easy wins rather than a healthy game.
There is nothing healthy about DC slaughtering EP during the day and taking our scrolls.1 -
Ahtu✭✭✭✭DisgracefulMind wrote: »DC will be absorbed by the other two factions... I'm calling it now. It's already happening to an extent and they are crumbling.
I played EP originally at launch, eventually, when seeing that DC was extremely outnumbered and gated almost all day every day on the "main servers" (yes, this isn't an over-exaggeration, we spent hours and hours and hours usually trying to get Glade back so we could get off our gates), I rolled over to DC, and I will tell you that it really did hurt the PvP portion of the game a ton. Had it not been for faction hoppers, DC wouldn't have ever gotten things done. I always had a couple of Fair Weathers coming over from EP to help get some ground back, in my personal experience.
DC won't lack a presence, they do have guilds and loyal players there, but having the desire to see a faction "crumble" in a game that already has a dying PvP population is just...obscene. I'm not sure why you would want this game to be rough to play for a population of people? This sort of thing makes players quit, and, most of us besides a few people like you, don't want people to quit. This isn't an irl war, this is a video game. People log on and want to play for a little while, then log off and go back to their lives. This is an outlet. When people log-in (and this goes for oceanic pvp too - yes, I'm talking to you PC/NA AD players) and see themselves gated because their faction is underpopulated, most just log back off because, this might be a surprise, it's not fun to most people to not be able to fight back because of such low numbers.
I really wish the pro-faction lock people could understand that the PvP population in this game is just not there to support such a change. The only way faction locks are acceptable is if ZoS were to implement a means to balance the map out when one faction overly dominates the other ones (such as locking gate keeps at certain intervals, disabling emp flips at certain intervals, etc.).
Another point, just because I'm on a rant - the emp flipping in ESO happens on the dead campaigns, i.e. Shor. Not the main one.
Thanks.
I never said anything about camping DC's gates. The only time I go to DC's gates is to get a scroll and then I leave and fight AD once both scrolls are ours.1 -
Ahtu✭✭✭✭Last night a well-known AD character logged into his EP character and used Frozen Retreat to pull EP players off Alessia Bridge using synergies. It's not the first time I've seen players do this. This is yet another example of why we need faction locks.Edited by Ahtu on May 16, 2019 11:37AM1
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Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
HAHAHAHA.... that's absurd. People cheat because it is EASY and it isn't actively discouraged. Faction locks will prevent this. I can't imagine ANYONE, even the most hardened cheaters, would bother to go and spend $40 just so they could go out and spam Forward Camps. Get a grip.kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »You know, I'm not done yet. This pro lock argument has more holes in it than a piece of swiss cheese. Two words completely debunk everything that is supposedly fixed with faction lock....MULTIPLE ACCOUNT.
Grip already gotten, this was happening from launch when we had faction locks and people were using multiple accounts to spy, steal scrolls and troll. Don't underestimate the people's motivation to manipulate and game the system, ZOS has for years and just look at where we are. And if you're still paying $40 for a copy of the base game then you're getting ripped off.
You don't understand, this time it will be DIFFERENT. Faction locks will promote camaraderie, strategic gameplay, honesty, decency and righteousness. Zone chats will be a place of cheery, enlightening, good natured conversations between folk who truly admire and respect one another.
In the wider world, baby deer will eat from the palm of my hand, and bluebirds will land on my shoulder, and sing a song of good morning to me every day as I wake up. The skies shall never be grey, and miserable, and peace and harmony will descend upon the earth.
@Mr_Walker
You have a gift for words good sir!
Maybe I've missed one of your posts, but going on a more constructive note, if (or when from the other position) faction lock does absolutely nothing to stop the AP boosting, which is what zos has hinted at as the reason for locks, what is an alternative solution?
I've suggested for a while that incentives instead of forced faction loyalty offer a better solution but it gets drowned out by the rightly emotional responses to this change.
What else could be done to improve the cyrodiil mess (in the context of faction locks, I don't want to rehash technical problems)?
First off, we shouldn't legitimise "emotional responses". Emotional responses to problems tend to be either terrible, stupid, or a combination of the two.
I don't know what the fix is. I can see the problem, but I don't think there is an easy fix. I also don't know what the cure for the common cold is, but I can tell you that sticking a rabid ferret down the front of your pants isn't going to help much.
But, we both know it doesn't solve AP boosting, because you don't need to faction swap to do this, just willing friends in different factions.
Trolls? It's unlikely to solve this either. Trolls get paid when people get pissed off. That's what they are there for. They don't care about AP. What would go some way towards solving the matter are the permabans of people who repeatedly scroll troll. Gamemasters in zone would go a long way towards clearing up a lot of the idiocy.
As a preview for things though, anyone who was on EP off peak today in XNA knows what awaits one or two lucky factions... misery. Baked in for 30 days....kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
HAHAHAHA.... that's absurd. People cheat because it is EASY and it isn't actively discouraged. Faction locks will prevent this. I can't imagine ANYONE, even the most hardened cheaters, would bother to go and spend $40 just so they could go out and spam Forward Camps. Get a grip.kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »You know, I'm not done yet. This pro lock argument has more holes in it than a piece of swiss cheese. Two words completely debunk everything that is supposedly fixed with faction lock....MULTIPLE ACCOUNT.
Grip already gotten, this was happening from launch when we had faction locks and people were using multiple accounts to spy, steal scrolls and troll. Don't underestimate the people's motivation to manipulate and game the system, ZOS has for years and just look at where we are. And if you're still paying $40 for a copy of the base game then you're getting ripped off.
You don't understand, this time it will be DIFFERENT. Faction locks will promote camaraderie, strategic gameplay, honesty, decency and righteousness. Zone chats will be a place of cheery, enlightening, good natured conversations between folk who truly admire and respect one another.
In the wider world, baby deer will eat from the palm of my hand, and bluebirds will land on my shoulder, and sing a song of good morning to me every day as I wake up. The skies shall never be grey, and miserable, and peace and harmony will descend upon the earth.
If you dont like faction locks, then go to a campaign that dosent have it... its called choise
It's actually called choice, but we've already established quite clearly (and repeatedly) that you don't really understand what the problem is. Now, let adults talk, yes?
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Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
HAHAHAHA.... that's absurd. People cheat because it is EASY and it isn't actively discouraged. Faction locks will prevent this. I can't imagine ANYONE, even the most hardened cheaters, would bother to go and spend $40 just so they could go out and spam Forward Camps. Get a grip.kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »You know, I'm not done yet. This pro lock argument has more holes in it than a piece of swiss cheese. Two words completely debunk everything that is supposedly fixed with faction lock....MULTIPLE ACCOUNT.
Grip already gotten, this was happening from launch when we had faction locks and people were using multiple accounts to spy, steal scrolls and troll. Don't underestimate the people's motivation to manipulate and game the system, ZOS has for years and just look at where we are. And if you're still paying $40 for a copy of the base game then you're getting ripped off.
You don't understand, this time it will be DIFFERENT. Faction locks will promote camaraderie, strategic gameplay, honesty, decency and righteousness. Zone chats will be a place of cheery, enlightening, good natured conversations between folk who truly admire and respect one another.
In the wider world, baby deer will eat from the palm of my hand, and bluebirds will land on my shoulder, and sing a song of good morning to me every day as I wake up. The skies shall never be grey, and miserable, and peace and harmony will descend upon the earth.
If you dont like faction locks, then go to a campaign that dosent have it... its called choise
There is no choice, shor is a dead camp and will continue to be dead.1 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭Last night a well-known AD character logged into his EP character and used Frozen Retreat to pull EP players off Alessia Bridge using synergies. It's not the first time I've seen players do this. This is yet another example of why we need faction locks.
There has always been bridge trolls and that won’t change at all with faction locks.1 -
bulbousb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh no! DC can't win, and with Faction locks they will be permanently hooped.
Except for... ummm... all those campaigns they are currently leading.Lethal zergling0 -
Miriel✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
HAHAHAHA.... that's absurd. People cheat because it is EASY and it isn't actively discouraged. Faction locks will prevent this. I can't imagine ANYONE, even the most hardened cheaters, would bother to go and spend $40 just so they could go out and spam Forward Camps. Get a grip.kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »You know, I'm not done yet. This pro lock argument has more holes in it than a piece of swiss cheese. Two words completely debunk everything that is supposedly fixed with faction lock....MULTIPLE ACCOUNT.
Grip already gotten, this was happening from launch when we had faction locks and people were using multiple accounts to spy, steal scrolls and troll. Don't underestimate the people's motivation to manipulate and game the system, ZOS has for years and just look at where we are. And if you're still paying $40 for a copy of the base game then you're getting ripped off.
You don't understand, this time it will be DIFFERENT. Faction locks will promote camaraderie, strategic gameplay, honesty, decency and righteousness. Zone chats will be a place of cheery, enlightening, good natured conversations between folk who truly admire and respect one another.
In the wider world, baby deer will eat from the palm of my hand, and bluebirds will land on my shoulder, and sing a song of good morning to me every day as I wake up. The skies shall never be grey, and miserable, and peace and harmony will descend upon the earth.
@Mr_Walker
You have a gift for words good sir!
Maybe I've missed one of your posts, but going on a more constructive note, if (or when from the other position) faction lock does absolutely nothing to stop the AP boosting, which is what zos has hinted at as the reason for locks, what is an alternative solution?
I've suggested for a while that incentives instead of forced faction loyalty offer a better solution but it gets drowned out by the rightly emotional responses to this change.
What else could be done to improve the cyrodiil mess (in the context of faction locks, I don't want to rehash technical problems)?
First off, we shouldn't legitimise "emotional responses". Emotional responses to problems tend to be either terrible, stupid, or a combination of the two.
I don't know what the fix is. I can see the problem, but I don't think there is an easy fix. I also don't know what the cure for the common cold is, but I can tell you that sticking a rabid ferret down the front of your pants isn't going to help much.
But, we both know it doesn't solve AP boosting, because you don't need to faction swap to do this, just willing friends in different factions.
Trolls? It's unlikely to solve this either. Trolls get paid when people get pissed off. That's what they are there for. They don't care about AP. What would go some way towards solving the matter are the permabans of people who repeatedly scroll troll. Gamemasters in zone would go a long way towards clearing up a lot of the idiocy.
As a preview for things though, anyone who was on EP off peak today in XNA knows what awaits one or two lucky factions... misery. Baked in for 30 days....kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
HAHAHAHA.... that's absurd. People cheat because it is EASY and it isn't actively discouraged. Faction locks will prevent this. I can't imagine ANYONE, even the most hardened cheaters, would bother to go and spend $40 just so they could go out and spam Forward Camps. Get a grip.kpittsniperb14_ESO wrote: »You know, I'm not done yet. This pro lock argument has more holes in it than a piece of swiss cheese. Two words completely debunk everything that is supposedly fixed with faction lock....MULTIPLE ACCOUNT.
Grip already gotten, this was happening from launch when we had faction locks and people were using multiple accounts to spy, steal scrolls and troll. Don't underestimate the people's motivation to manipulate and game the system, ZOS has for years and just look at where we are. And if you're still paying $40 for a copy of the base game then you're getting ripped off.
You don't understand, this time it will be DIFFERENT. Faction locks will promote camaraderie, strategic gameplay, honesty, decency and righteousness. Zone chats will be a place of cheery, enlightening, good natured conversations between folk who truly admire and respect one another.
In the wider world, baby deer will eat from the palm of my hand, and bluebirds will land on my shoulder, and sing a song of good morning to me every day as I wake up. The skies shall never be grey, and miserable, and peace and harmony will descend upon the earth.
If you dont like faction locks, then go to a campaign that dosent have it... its called choise
It's actually called choice, but we've already established quite clearly (and repeatedly) that you don't really understand what the problem is. Now, let adults talk, yes?
If people dont want to play as you do, thats not my problem... If people truely dident want to play with faction locks then they go to the campaign that dident have it0 -
Miriel✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »Last night a well-known AD character logged into his EP character and used Frozen Retreat to pull EP players off Alessia Bridge using synergies. It's not the first time I've seen players do this. This is yet another example of why we need faction locks.
There has always been bridge trolls and that won’t change at all with faction locks.
Then why are you arguing ?0 -
Ahtu✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »Last night a well-known AD character logged into his EP character and used Frozen Retreat to pull EP players off Alessia Bridge using synergies. It's not the first time I've seen players do this. This is yet another example of why we need faction locks.
There has always been bridge trolls and that won’t change at all with faction locks.
There has never been friendly bridge trolls as Frozen Retreat is a new skill, and yes, that will be reduced by faction locks because enemy spies won't be able to log into other factions to troll them without committing to said faction for 30 days.Edited by Ahtu on May 16, 2019 4:21PM0 -
Ahtu✭✭✭✭I strive for the day I can use PvE sets and skills in Cyrodiil to PvDoor keeps and take the whole map morning, afternoon, and night.2
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DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »Last night a well-known AD character logged into his EP character and used Frozen Retreat to pull EP players off Alessia Bridge using synergies. It's not the first time I've seen players do this. This is yet another example of why we need faction locks.
There has always been bridge trolls and that won’t change at all with faction locks.
There has never been friendly bridge trolls as Frozen Retreat is a new skill, and yes, that will be reduced by faction locks because enemy spies won't be able to log into other factions to troll them without committing to said faction for 30 days.
There are ways to troll your friendly alliance too, though.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.0 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭DisgracefulMind wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »Last night a well-known AD character logged into his EP character and used Frozen Retreat to pull EP players off Alessia Bridge using synergies. It's not the first time I've seen players do this. This is yet another example of why we need faction locks.
There has always been bridge trolls and that won’t change at all with faction locks.
There has never been friendly bridge trolls as Frozen Retreat is a new skill, and yes, that will be reduced by faction locks because enemy spies won't be able to log into other factions to troll them without committing to said faction for 30 days.
There are ways to troll your friendly alliance too, though.
Hopefully with faction locks certain forms of trolling become more clear cut and are more easily dealt with appropriately on ZOS' end.1