cradle of shadows normal mode too many gimmicky 1 shot mechanics

kratier

sorry but having to be patient with kids who cant even kill ads and this game wants them to block 1 shot gimmicks, and im sitting here trying to do dailies like what
seriously adjust that **** cause thats awful, just awful,

Metafae

I didn't even think you could be one shot in normal. I thought they would just be like the Velidreth's Shadow Sense in non-hardmode, where it wounds you greatly but does not kill you like it does in hardmode.

zaria

The dropping rock spears after she says don't move an muscle is a one shot in normal at least on dd without shields.
Don't think its other however damage is pretty high.

Galarthor

Well if you continuously dumb down the content for them then they will never learn - simply b/c they don't have to.

dazee

The only one shot I remember from that dungeon is the spike attack on last boss. You sure you dont just have low HP?

kratier

yall probably bis and cookie cutter build tryhards, im talking randoms in normal mode with mechanics you cant carry
that experience was god awful, and whoever is in charge of designing the dungeon, its not needing to "dumb down" its entry level dungeon to the game, it should not be that mechanic heavy. it fails from a basic design standpoint, it was an awful experience and set me back, if all the newer dlc dungeons are that awful im going to be put off from going anywhere near that kind of experience again, and stick to questing, cause holy hell that was AWFUL

dazee

I hate cookie cutter meta builds. I build to be as effective as I can within my character theme only. But I know how to do mechanics, you sound like you got a group which didnt know what those are.

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

Which mechanic is one shot on normal mode?

SaintSubwayy

thats the problem with meta setups...jeah they pull the highest dmg

IF and only IF
you know how mechanics work, how to play arround them, and survive them, and how to use these setups in the intended way.
thats nothing these ppl can see in a video, thats the skill required to make good use out of these builds.

Those builds are the reason everybody want "bis" setups for themselfes, yet they dont know how to play arround those builds...and they never will, since those are also the ppl calling for nerfs left and right here on the forums.
And the ppl who know how those builds need to be played, are then like: "whhaaat the frog are you even talking about" since they can eaily manage this content, due to ther PERSONAL SKILL.

I said it before and I gotta say it again.
you can give those players BIS gear golded out, yet players with skill and knowledge will outdps them in any fight with non BIS gear by atleast 25-50%. if not even more.

the endless crying will end up just in nerfs after nerfs....once the content is nerfed so avg players can beat it easily, then the Sets will get nerfed again, since the content is too easy, rinse and repeat

Ysbriel

kratier wrote: »

yall probably bis and cookie cutter build tryhards, im talking randoms in normal mode with mechanics you cant carry
that experience was god awful, and whoever is in charge of designing the dungeon, its not needing to "dumb down" its entry level dungeon to the game, it should not be that mechanic heavy. it fails from a basic design standpoint, it was an awful experience and set me back, if all the newer dlc dungeons are that awful im going to be put off from going anywhere near that kind of experience again, and stick to questing, cause holy hell that was AWFUL

Or people have done this dungeon and are legit trying to help, Cradle of Shadows is not a carry dungeon at all, the DLC dungeons are not meant for carries.

Thats the only oneshot that basically can be avoided by paying attention, to the red circle.

Webspinner's Wrath
Immediately after Pull, the boss releases a burst of magic around itself as indicated by a large red circle. This does massive damage and should be avoided at all costs even by the tank.

And the other one is from the mage lady that has to be cancelled.

Suddwrath

kratier wrote: »

its not needing to "dumb down" its entry level dungeon to the game, it should not be that mechanic heavy. it fails from a basic design standpoint,

Normal mode really isn't that mechanic heavy though. Things that one-shot players in veteran won't one-shot you on normal mode, so most likely your group just had low HP. As long as the DPS in your group have 16k-18k HP they will survive pretty much all one-shot mechanics in normal dungeons/trials.

Myrkgrav

Imagine complaining the singular 1-shot mechanic in that dungeon is too gimmicky.

Myrkgrav

That being said, as frustrating as it is, how are you expected to get better if you don't have to work at it or actually try to avoid certain things? I was soooo stoked on CoH when I finally figured out how to avoid the 1 shot by the mage. The final bosses SHOULD be challenging, otherwise what is the point.

HappyLittleTree

I can run no cp vet cradle and dont get oneshot. maybe get gud?

zyk

Ugh. L2P. If you don't want to deal with pick up groups, meet others to play with.

Dagoth_Rac

Myrkgrav wrote: »

That being said, as frustrating as it is, how are you expected to get better if you don't have to work at it or actually try to avoid certain things?

Is that the point of Normal dungeons? I have always seen Normal as being directed at casual players who just want to have fun, kill monsters, enjoy the dungeon design, take in the lore and story, etc. I do not see Normal as being a frustrating experience that is designed to prepare players for Vet Cradle of Shadows. Most casual players have no expectations of or even interest in getting good. Conquering difficult challenges is not why they play the game. I have Flawless Conqueror for VMA, have completed most Trials on Veteran. I have no issues with difficult content. But you prepare for that by doing early, non-DLC Veteran content like Fungal Grotto I and then working your way forward. Not by doing Normal anything. I agree with OP that there should not be 1-shots on Normal. You should not be invincible, but you should always get a chance to recover.

Myrkgrav

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Myrkgrav wrote: »

That being said, as frustrating as it is, how are you expected to get better if you don't have to work at it or actually try to avoid certain things?

Is that the point of Normal dungeons? I have always seen Normal as being directed at casual players who just want to have fun, kill monsters, enjoy the dungeon design, take in the lore and story, etc. I do not see Normal as being a frustrating experience that is designed to prepare players for Vet Cradle of Shadows. Most casual players have no expectations of or even interest in getting good. Conquering difficult challenges is not why they play the game. I have Flawless Conqueror for VMA, have completed most Trials on Veteran. I have no issues with difficult content. But you prepare for that by doing early, non-DLC Veteran content like Fungal Grotto I and then working your way forward. Not by doing Normal anything. I agree with OP that there should not be 1-shots on Normal. You should not be invincible, but you should always get a chance to recover.

If people think 1 roll dodge mechanic on the literal final boss of the dungeon is too much then idk what to say. Read a book instead of playing a game. Plenty of other baby dungeons to do.

Chelo

kratier wrote: »

yall probably bis and cookie cutter build tryhards, im talking randoms in normal mode with mechanics you cant carry
that experience was god awful, and whoever is in charge of designing the dungeon, its not needing to "dumb down" its entry level dungeon to the game, it should not be that mechanic heavy. it fails from a basic design standpoint, it was an awful experience and set me back, if all the newer dlc dungeons are that awful im going to be put off from going anywhere near that kind of experience again, and stick to questing, cause holy hell that was AWFUL

It's a DLC do dungeon... That's far from entry level...

Trinity_Is_My_Name

The dungeon is not difficult at all. It's been nerfed time and time again and is very easy now. When it was first released it was difficult in Vet only because we didn't know the mechanics. After learning them after a few runs it became easy and a very fun to run dungeon.

If you cannot make it through it in Normal mode and think it is a bad design then you are in for a shock when you run the other DLC dungeons. You may as well find another game more suiting for your playstyle.

Also, Vet Cradle of Shadows has been soloed. In Hard mode. I don't mean a group of people running it and then letting one person finish it. I mean from the beginning to the end one person.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

I can run no cp vet cradle and dont get oneshot. maybe get gud?

Agree.

Silver_Strider

I just ran vCoS with guildies to teach them mechanics a few days ago. Group was myself on my CP810 NB Tank, CP600 Templar healer, CP399 StamDK and CP392 MagSorc (nonpet). It was a rough run with many deaths and a couple of wipes to Dranos (#FDranos) but we ultimately cleared it. Later, I find out via Discord, the 2 DPS had NEVER run CoS and had very little experience with vet dungeons in general.

I guess my question is, if my guildies, with little to no experience, can complete vCoS, why are we complaining about nCoS?

Oakmontowls_ESO

I feel like the OP is in for a rude awakening when they try some of the newer dungeons. I'm just imagining the OP in Falkreth getting one shot through block by the wallbreakers.

Taleof2Cities

Galarthor wrote: »

Well if you continuously dumb down the content for them then they will never learn - simply b/c they don't have to.

^This.^

SoLooney

Didnt cradle just get a nerf too? Are people not eating food before running dungeons? People complaining normals are too hard? Cmon 😑

Zos needs to stop dumbing content down. Nearly all the dungeons are so face roll easy compared to what they were before

Its 2019 and people still dont know how to Google or YouTube mechanics. Or people just dont join guilds to run content with....

CultOfMMO

just because it's normal mode does not mean it has to be mentally challenged friendly

NordSwordnBoard

@kratier if the adds took so long to kill, why did you take so long to leave group?

FleetwoodSmack

Cradle of Shadows, just like any other DLC dungeon, is mechanic heavy. It's meant to be mechanic heavy. That being said, there's a few questions that you're not answering;

• Specifics of your character (gear/gear quality, health/resource pool values, do you have CP)
• Specifics on if you're using food.
• Extrapolating on which bosses you were having issues on.

Because literally all I got from your posts was none of that and instead nonconstructive, uninformative of your experience, and just general salt. If you want help, ask for help. If you don't want to help and want to trash talk, might I suggest Reddit?

Mojmir

No normal dungeon should have a one shot mechanic. However, if your health is below 16k you need to re-evaluate your build.

Oakmontowls_ESO

Mojmir wrote: »

No normal dungeon should have a one shot mechanic. However, if your health is below 16k you need to re-evaluate your build.

Eh I disagree, most one shots are very telegraphed and avoidable/interuptable.

kratier

yall missing the point of my entire thread the whole "git gud" and "u should reevaluate your build" hurrdurr comments literally didnt even read the thread, problem isnt me ITS MY TEAM its expecting 3 other randoms to be overgeared to deal with gimmicky boss fights, in a normal mode dungeon. nah, its bad design, and a bad dungeon all around. just awful experience and ruined my night trying to deal with randoms who cant do basic mechanics,

and no its not difficult,its just poorly designed, and poorly implemented, i play games way more challenging and demanding like ffxiv which has those kinds of mechanics for every single boss, they just telegraph them better, and design the fights better. ESO is a stumbling mess when it comes to boss fights, and for normal mode dungeon its awful experience. my feed back was for normal mode, as a casual player who rarely does dungeons, cradle is a fing nightmare trying to get randoms to learn/understand mechanism well enough to beat it

Silver_Strider

kratier wrote: »

yall missing the point of my entire thread the whole "git gud" and "u should reevaluate your build" hurrdurr comments literally didnt even read the thread, problem isnt me ITS MY TEAM its expecting 3 other randoms to be overgeared to deal with gimmicky boss fights, in a normal mode dungeon. nah, its bad design, and a bad dungeon all around. just awful experience and ruined my night trying to deal with randoms who cant do basic mechanics,

and no its not difficult,its just poorly designed, and poorly implemented, i play games way more challenging and demanding like ffxiv which has those kinds of mechanics for every single boss, they just telegraph them better, and design the fights better. ESO is a stumbling mess when it comes to boss fights, and for normal mode dungeon its awful experience. my feed back was for normal mode, as a casual player who rarely does dungeons, cradle is a fing nightmare trying to get randoms to learn/understand mechanism well enough to beat it

I also play FFXIV. The mechanics of ESO are a cake walk in comparison to FFXIV, its learning these mechanics that suck.
The telegraphs for attacks could be somewhat more pronounced in ESO absolutely and some fights can be a hassle to figure out the mechanic but Cradle doesn't really have that problem for the most part. I mean, the first 2 bosses are nothing more than "Light the torch" like you have the ENTIRE way to them and are otherwise unremarkable. The Spider Boss doesn't have anything even remotely unique to it. Dranos has his invincibility mechanic, which isn't really explained but at the same time adds have spawned during it so, much like FFXIV, the mechanic there is plain as day, although I suppose the "Interrupt the Tethering Adds" as opposed to trying to kill them could be more detailed but the issue there is that, PUGs are beyond stupid and would rather run away from the scary ghost people holding down the person with the boss' aggro rather than do the mechanic and no amount of explanation will get thru to them. The only fight that doesn't really have much of an explanation is Velidreth as not only is it not made clear about the whole maze mechanic (the atronach light mechanic is only suggested to reveal hidden enemies in the room prior to her) but the rest of her mechanics, especially the HM version are just.....unnecessarily difficult to actual learn since it's all Trial and Error.

The entirety of ESO's combat is based heavily on just that, Trial and Error. None of the mechanics are ever really explained to you, the tutorial is so bare bones that it feels like it might as well not even exist and the contrast in Overworld, Normal Base Game Dungeons, DLC+Vet Mode Dungeons, Normal Trials and Vet Trials are so extreme that it has left the larger part of the player base somewhat spoiled as they can be totally brain dead in Overworld and even some Normal Dungeons but Vet Dungeons and Trials requires a bit more effort and know how to actually do. Cradle of Shadows falls into the DLC Dungeon category in which its laced with mechanics that the average player base is unable to do because the average skill level of ESO is a lot lower than that of the average skill level in FFXIV. People aren't expected to learn ESO like they are expected to learn FFXIV. In FFXIV, you are given a specific set of tools at your disposal with a specific purpose already designed for you. If you're a WHM, you're expected to heal and your toolkit is designed with healing in mind. In contrast, if you're a Sorcerer in ESO, you aren't given a limited amount of skills to utilize nor is your purpose predetermined at the onset. You can Tank, Heal or DPS as a Sorcerer with different skills that are all open to you to use as you see fit but that creates a much larger margin for error as well and people can be incredibly stubborn due to this sense of entitlement that ESO thrusts upon them.

To put it bluntly, ESO's combat structure is flawed in that it expects people to just figure everything out on their own. This problem is exacerbated by the stubborn nature of people that don't want to hear advise or be told how to play the game; the whole "You don't pay my sub" argument. So even IF you figure out a mechanic, it won't do you any good because of the player base being stubborn A-Holes that just sort of expect to clear because the content they normally do is so mind numbingly easy, they feel they aren't the problem and don't need to accept advise or information on how to fight X boss since its CLEARLY someone else's fault they can't clear the content. There isn't a real fix for this other than cranking the game's difficulty up to 11 across the board and make people "Git Gud" in order to even play the game at even the most basic of content but that's not going to happen anytime soon.