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QOL - improvement for Mag Blades: Class shield

  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    twing1_ wrote: »
    @twing1_

    The thing is, templars dont need Sun Shield (their class shield) bc/ they have BoL

    And if they didn't have BoL, they'd need something bc/ health based shields aren't very good for non-tanks. And Sun Shield isn't very good or versatile even then

    Okay, sure. Templar don't need their shield because they have BoL. But they still have one.

    You can make the argument that NB don't need a shield either, because they have cloak. But if it turns out that this isn't the case (often, because cloak is such an all-or-nothing tactic and also so easily counterable), the difference is they don't even have access to one, whereas literally every other class does (in some form or another).

    I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. And unfortunately, NB right now have the latter while all other classes have the former.

    I just don't see how it could hurt adding one to the NB arsenal, especially in place of path of darkness when it is so terribly in need of a rework because of both how contradictory it is (by restricting major expedition to such a small area) and also how redundant it is (with both cripple and double take providing major expedition without the aforementioned area restriction).

    It won;t mater because NBs can only put on 10 skills on their bar. By giving them a bad skill, you are forcing the class to in effect play with 9 skills plus rely on something adequate for the given task, which I would argue puts NBs in a worse situation since their (competent) opponents will have 10 good skills and their bar and all of them will be up to the task. Your build would be better off in more situations vs. more opponents keeping the good skill you're going to take off your bar for that shield.

    It's the same reason just about every stam build worth their salt does not slot bone shield (a health based shield that costs stamina). Sure, having it could boost their defense a little, but then they'd have to give up Bleeds or evasion or snare immunity or something like Green Lotus which are more potent and versatile skills.

    Magicka NBs need real help, not impulsive changes that won;t even make much of a difference.
  • kaithuzar
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    To me, it seems like there are plenty of abilities in the game preventing/reflecting/absorbing/etc... “ranged attacks”.
    Maybe, some of this can be applied to snipe spammers, which I’m all for.
    But as there exist no real “magicka melee weapon” in game, these seem to completely hinder magicka builds fighting against them.

    WHY, this seems terribly unbalanced as I don’t think stamina pvp’ers have to worry about these things...

    Why can “all magic users” be negated by a sorc when there is no “stam negate”, to put on a balled up group of stam users???

    A negate that works against stam users would kill this “burst by 5 dawnbreaker” meta we’ve had for the past 2 years or so & vampires would actually be welcome in Cyrodiil again.

    If there is going to be any class/skill rework, I would request these things be thought about/considered.
    Edited by kaithuzar on April 11, 2019 10:41PM
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  • twing1_
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    twing1_ wrote: »
    @twing1_

    The thing is, templars dont need Sun Shield (their class shield) bc/ they have BoL

    And if they didn't have BoL, they'd need something bc/ health based shields aren't very good for non-tanks. And Sun Shield isn't very good or versatile even then

    Okay, sure. Templar don't need their shield because they have BoL. But they still have one.

    You can make the argument that NB don't need a shield either, because they have cloak. But if it turns out that this isn't the case (often, because cloak is such an all-or-nothing tactic and also so easily counterable), the difference is they don't even have access to one, whereas literally every other class does (in some form or another).

    I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. And unfortunately, NB right now have the latter while all other classes have the former.

    I just don't see how it could hurt adding one to the NB arsenal, especially in place of path of darkness when it is so terribly in need of a rework because of both how contradictory it is (by restricting major expedition to such a small area) and also how redundant it is (with both cripple and double take providing major expedition without the aforementioned area restriction).

    It won;t mater because NBs can only put on 10 skills on their bar. By giving them a bad skill, you are forcing the class to in effect play with 9 skills plus rely on something adequate for the given task, which I would argue puts NBs in a worse situation since their (competent) opponents will have 10 good skills and their bar and all of them will be up to the task. Your build would be better off in more situations vs. more opponents keeping the good skill you're going to take off your bar for that shield.

    It's the same reason just about every stam build worth their salt does not slot bone shield (a health based shield that costs stamina). Sure, having it could boost their defense a little, but then they'd have to give up Bleeds or evasion or snare immunity or something like Green Lotus which are more potent and versatile skills.

    Magicka NBs need real help, not impulsive changes that won;t even make much of a difference.

    The "bad skill" I proposed is a lot better than the current path of darkness, especially on nb tanks which also desperately need help. If nb tanks have the least group utility (they do) they should at least be the most survivable. Right now they are neither. The proposed change would change that.

    And what's the cost?

    Path of darkness.

    Right now, this skill is going largely unused because it is both redundant (with 2 other class skills offering its primary buff, major evasion) and contradictory (boosting mobility while also restricting that benefit to a small area).

    In fact, typically the only people who slot path of darkness are endgame PvE magblade damage dealers for an extra ground AoE and nb healers who haven't realized how pathetically small the area of effect actually is.

    The former are owners of the top dps parses (excluding bow/bow warden spider synergy builds) and could use the loss of a reliable DoT to help bring them more in line with damage dealers of other classes.

    The latter would be better off slotting an extra resto staff heal that would more reliably heal their allies.

    So no, it wouldn't be the sorc shield in PvP some mag nb players want. But again, I don't think nb deserve a shield that strong. And it would still be mildly useful strictly for the movement speed bonus (that stacks with major expedition from cripple) if for no other reason.
  • Berenhir
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    At this point in time and with this amount of direct and indirect magblade nerfs, they need to go back to the drawing board and reinvent the class completely. It is just a trashy jack-of-all-trades and plays like the opening sequence of Pirates of the Carribbean while other classes are out there on a regatta.

    Edited by Berenhir on April 12, 2019 12:07AM
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  • Yhoden
    Yhoden
    IMO magblade at its current state is not good in open world. A lot of good players can agree with me. which is why most play magsorcs(got the best mobility). Having a class shield would be a game changer for magblades. players would be able to sustain better also promoting variety without needing to use resto staff. Would also encourage solo play style and less bombing/zerg surfing.

    I hope zeni looks into this idea. would be cool to have a blood shield ish look that gives back health when taken dmg.

  • Iskiab
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    I’ve found the problem as a magblade is burst. When you’re in cyrodiil you can use prox det to good effect, but in BGs it’s tough. The usual retort is ‘use caluurion’ but that really has nothing to do with the class, any mag class can use it but they don’t need to.

    The class’ issues are depending on your spec:

    Ranged:
    Everything’s reflectable

    Melee:
    Lack of self healing
    Snare removal
    If you use 2 hander for snare removal (forward momentum) then light/heavy attacks scaling with weapon damage and stam

    I somewhat agree with people that the class doesn’t a shield, but saying a shield for other mag classes is too much homogenization is silly. What do you think vigor is for stam? That’s like saying ZoS having vigor makes self healing for stam homogeneous. Something only becomes mandatory if it’s overpowered.

    Weak class healing just makes a resto back bar mandatory.
    Edited by Iskiab on April 12, 2019 2:36AM
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  • Vapirko
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    idk wrote: »
    Fiktius wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    The idea is not needed for extremely obvious reasons. Everyone has access to a shield via the light armor skill line and only one class has a shield that scales off max magicka. If you want to play a NB with a magicka shield wear LA.

    The other big issue is we do not need to start making all classes the same which is exactly what this idea is. OP wants to make the NB more like a Sorc.

    Like I already mentioned at the post above, there is a problematic situation what comes with the current shield availability.
    The balance changes over years and so does skills as well. Not everything works as they used to be (more details already written above) and sometimes comes the point when class skills should be re-considered.

    I do agree that classes should have their class identity, but if you think that giving one own class shield makes Nightblade too much Sorc a like, fair enough. We are both free to agree to disagree here. :)

    There is not a problem. The NB performs fine with the defenses they have.

    The mere fact that templars, wardens and dks do not have a class shield that is magicka based and people do fine on them, just like they do fine with a NB as it is demonstrates clearly there is not a problem in this area. That is both in PvP and PvE.

    So if you are having problems playing your NB because you do not have a class based shield then I suggest you play the sorc and no other class. It does not seem many agree with your proposal so I guess most of us will agree to disagree with you.

    In PvP this is nothing but false. Any PvPer that has played magblade, or just any knowledgeable PvPer, knows they are at the absolute bottom of the pile right now due to insanely horrible survivabilty in almost all situations. It would be great if we could maintain class identity somehow but it’s true that Magblade used to be more viable because of the effectiveness of light armor shield and healing ward, neither of which are class identity skills (also not sure why magblade healing skills got nerfed). But suggesting that this is a L2P issue is completely ignorant and displays not only a lack of understanding but you’re incorrectly accusing the OP of being incompetent. However, a class shield is very unlikely to be implemented. Either they need to fix healing ward or they need to work with the available magblade class skills to offer a bit more mitigation and/or healing. My guess though is that they are aware of this, and the next PTS cycle will focus on class skills so let’s hope that for the sake of all the PvP magblades out there that something is in the pipeline.
  • Yhoden
    Yhoden
    I strongly believe that the blood shield could solve most of the issues especially for solo players. plus mirage already looks like a shield in red which would look cool. also a damage shield that gives back a small health when damage taken would be a unique identity for this class. I'd drop ward and harness if this was implemented. plus as magblade mains we can all welcome something new to the table. what do you guys think eh? I'm excited for this. lets hope the devs take notice.
  • idk
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    Fiktius wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    What is being said in this thread is some are having problems playing a NB so we want a skill like the Sorc has. Those should go play a Sorc instead of making the NB more like one. Argue all you want, but that is exactly what this thread is about.

    That's what you assume and nothing what I really said at first place. Those are things which you want to believe, but I guess it wouldn't change your mind even if I would say we are not trying to suggest here that developers should go and copy paste Sorcerer shield for Nightblades and call the job done.

    What I asked here was mostly replacement shield, which could release mag NBs from pigeonhole of relying on restoration staff and opening build variety by implementing a class shield, which would function much more proper way.

    And what is this "proper way"?

    1) We get it to ourselves every time, 100 % guaranteed.
    2) Enable an access to slot anything else than restoration staff for backbar, if wanting to use additional defensive shield.
    (Combined with - very likely already slotted - LA shield)

    And how this defensive shield could function? Now that's important topic to discuss.
    What I would expect is that the damage shield would have unique function, separating the shield out of other classes shields, yet still keeping the unique feel which the class still have. This could be done many different ways, yet the class identity would remain.
    I also really much like @twing1_ idea of giving a shield, which would return health when the shield is being damaged.
    Now that would be something which I would consider worth to slot, depending how developers would make the shield actually function.

    And now that's important to remember:
    We can throw suggestions from doors and windows, but at the end it will be developers who will make the final design/decision.
    It's too early to freak out, when we are only on discussion stage.

    Really now. So you are not suggesting a magicka based shield for a magicka based character? OP is speaking specifically about the magNB in a damage roll. It would be silly and absurd for a magcika dps or heal build to use a health based shield which is essentially our only other real choice.

    So to suggest the idea is not a shield like a Sorc has seems a little like smoke an mirrors.
  • ToRelax
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    Why would you want to pigeonhole mag NB into shieldstacking as well?
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  • Mayrael
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    No. Magblades don't need another shield... Magblades need snare removal and short immunity when it goes to survivability. When it goes to offense Merciless projectile speed needs a buff - right now it gives loudest possible sound cue, has a delay and is slow as caluurion projectile meaning any player with thumbs can drink a tea and dodge it afterwards.
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  • Baphomet
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    I don't think a shield is a bad idea at all - simply turn the dark cloak morph into a shadow shield.

    Let is give medium damage absorbtion and minor or major evasion.
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  • ATomiX96
    ATomiX96
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    ATomiX96 wrote: »
    "CAN WE HAVE CLOAK THEN?" ~every sorc on this damned forum

    Found another salty nightblade.

    jokes on you, I play pretty much everything except nightblade in PvP, just mimicking 99% of the people on the forums.
  • Fiktius
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    idk wrote: »
    Really now. So you are not suggesting a magicka based shield for a magicka based character? OP is speaking specifically about the magNB in a damage roll. It would be silly and absurd for a magcika dps or heal build to use a health based shield which is essentially our only other real choice.

    So to suggest the idea is not a shield like a Sorc has seems a little like smoke an mirrors.

    I'm a suggesting here a shield, which could be useful for magicka NB, yet would be functioning differently, so Sorcerers wouldn't have to worry about their class identity. (Tho it seems like it doesn't matter what I say, they will worry anyways)
    Magicka NBs could get another one, which would still boost their survival. This can't be so hard to understand:
    Sorc shield and NB shield do not have to function the same way and both of them still can be useful.
    If developers makes a compromise and implements health scaling shield, I have no problems with stacking HP in the game via different sets. If developers implements magicka scaling shield, I would be obviously fine with that.
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Why would you want to pigeonhole mag NB into shieldstacking as well?

    We are already there. Have you paid attention how many of popular mag NB builds are stacking LA shield and healing ward?
    What I'm trying to do here is improve the situation and get rid off unreliable healing ward and get out of the pigeonhole, which forces to use restoration staff, due there's no any other better shield left outside of using LA shield.
    (And that's the one many of us already have slotted.)
  • ToRelax
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    Fiktius wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Why would you want to pigeonhole mag NB into shieldstacking as well?

    We are already there. Have you paid attention how many of popular mag NB builds are stacking LA shield and healing ward?
    What I'm trying to do here is improve the situation and get rid off unreliable healing ward and get out of the pigeonhole, which forces to use restoration staff, due there's no any other better shield left outside of using LA shield.
    (And that's the one many of us already have slotted.)

    I'm quite aware, I guess I should have made more clear about my concerns. Sorc hasn't been getting any alternative to their defense outside Conjured Ward since it became the by far most powerful class shield with the removal of softcaps. I don't want NB to be held back the same way.
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  • HowlKimchi
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    We don't need a class shield. We need snare removal. Refreshing path is a good candidate.
    Edited by HowlKimchi on April 12, 2019 1:35PM
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  • Fiktius
    Fiktius
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    ToRelax wrote: »
    Fiktius wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Why would you want to pigeonhole mag NB into shieldstacking as well?

    We are already there. Have you paid attention how many of popular mag NB builds are stacking LA shield and healing ward?
    What I'm trying to do here is improve the situation and get rid off unreliable healing ward and get out of the pigeonhole, which forces to use restoration staff, due there's no any other better shield left outside of using LA shield.
    (And that's the one many of us already have slotted.)

    I'm quite aware, I guess I should have made more clear about my concerns. Sorc hasn't been getting any alternative to their defense outside Conjured Ward since it became the by far most powerful class shield with the removal of softcaps. I don't want NB to be held back the same way.

    I can understand your concerns and lack of alternatives what comes with Sorcerers.
    However now when mag NB is already at bottom tier, at this point getting class shield would be only a step towards better direction and it would open much more build variety due NB have some skills in the tool kit which already deserve a rework.
    If developers does these changes right, build variety would only improve, not decrease. Those cloack spammers could still spam cloak all day all night if they want, but also visible defense would improve. That would be only a positive thing.
  • HowlKimchi
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    Fiktius wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Fiktius wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Why would you want to pigeonhole mag NB into shieldstacking as well?

    We are already there. Have you paid attention how many of popular mag NB builds are stacking LA shield and healing ward?
    What I'm trying to do here is improve the situation and get rid off unreliable healing ward and get out of the pigeonhole, which forces to use restoration staff, due there's no any other better shield left outside of using LA shield.
    (And that's the one many of us already have slotted.)

    I'm quite aware, I guess I should have made more clear about my concerns. Sorc hasn't been getting any alternative to their defense outside Conjured Ward since it became the by far most powerful class shield with the removal of softcaps. I don't want NB to be held back the same way.

    I can understand your concerns and lack of alternatives what comes with Sorcerers.
    However now when mag NB is already at bottom tier, at this point getting class shield would be only a step towards better direction and it would open much more build variety due NB have some skills in the tool kit which already deserve a rework.
    If developers does these changes right, build variety would only improve, not decrease. Those cloack spammers could still spam cloak all day all night if they want, but also visible defense would improve. That would be only a positive thing.

    I don't get it. What is the difference of the skill you're suggesting to the already existing Dampen Magicka?

    Aside from that, having shields wont mean squat if you're stuck there snared spamming shield trying to survive. You need to be able to prevent damage and not just try to "heal" through it. That's why snare removal is more important that damage shields if you want us magblades to be buffed.
    Edited by HowlKimchi on April 12, 2019 1:49PM
    previously @HaruKamui but I outgrew my weeb phase (probably)

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  • Insco851
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    Fiktius wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Fiktius wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Why would you want to pigeonhole mag NB into shieldstacking as well?

    We are already there. Have you paid attention how many of popular mag NB builds are stacking LA shield and healing ward?
    What I'm trying to do here is improve the situation and get rid off unreliable healing ward and get out of the pigeonhole, which forces to use restoration staff, due there's no any other better shield left outside of using LA shield.
    (And that's the one many of us already have slotted.)

    I'm quite aware, I guess I should have made more clear about my concerns. Sorc hasn't been getting any alternative to their defense outside Conjured Ward since it became the by far most powerful class shield with the removal of softcaps. I don't want NB to be held back the same way.

    I can understand your concerns and lack of alternatives what comes with Sorcerers.
    However now when mag NB is already at bottom tier, at this point getting class shield would be only a step towards better direction and it would open much more build variety due NB have some skills in the tool kit which already deserve a rework.
    If developers does these changes right, build variety would only improve, not decrease. Those cloack spammers could still spam cloak all day all night if they want, but also visible defense would improve. That would be only a positive thing.

    Currently you have to give up an incredible amount of damage to have defenses, and you need to stack multiple hots. Take the dark cloak morph, stack extra health...it’s genuinely a weaker setup.

    But hey, you at least won’t get hate mail every hour cuz you are forced to disengage.
    Edited by Insco851 on April 12, 2019 1:49PM
  • Fiktius
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    HaruKamui wrote: »
    Fiktius wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Fiktius wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    Why would you want to pigeonhole mag NB into shieldstacking as well?

    We are already there. Have you paid attention how many of popular mag NB builds are stacking LA shield and healing ward?
    What I'm trying to do here is improve the situation and get rid off unreliable healing ward and get out of the pigeonhole, which forces to use restoration staff, due there's no any other better shield left outside of using LA shield.
    (And that's the one many of us already have slotted.)

    I'm quite aware, I guess I should have made more clear about my concerns. Sorc hasn't been getting any alternative to their defense outside Conjured Ward since it became the by far most powerful class shield with the removal of softcaps. I don't want NB to be held back the same way.

    I can understand your concerns and lack of alternatives what comes with Sorcerers.
    However now when mag NB is already at bottom tier, at this point getting class shield would be only a step towards better direction and it would open much more build variety due NB have some skills in the tool kit which already deserve a rework.
    If developers does these changes right, build variety would only improve, not decrease. Those cloack spammers could still spam cloak all day all night if they want, but also visible defense would improve. That would be only a positive thing.

    I don't get it. What is the difference of the skill you're suggesting to the already existing Dampen Magicka?

    The difference of suggested shield compared to dampen magicka would be these:

    1) The source where you get it. Currently dampen magicka and healing ward - most popular shields in use - are all outside of the class tool kit. If we get a class skill, we could also benefit from our existing passives when slotting a class shield.

    2) Class shield functionality could be something entirely different what dampen magicka provides. There are several possibilities how it could be done, but one example suggestion is that the shield would return HP to you, when the shield is being damaged. This would improve NB healing and visible defense and hit two birds with one stone.

    3) If we can slot this class shield among dampen magicka shield, we could finally drop healing ward out of the tool kit and start using different weapons instead. This alone would open so many possibilities for different builds.

    EDIT: Seems like you edited your post a bit later, so I'll just add this additional part:
    I do agree that fixing the snare dilemma which mag NBs do have is one approach for trying to solve situation, but that's helping different aspect of survival. Snare removal would not change that fact many of us are hugging our healing staves, because there's no valid alternative for replacing healing ward.
    (Note: Many of us already do have LA shield slotted. Point of this topic is improving the situation and getting out of that pigeonhole where restoration staff is almost "must to have" on majority of mag blade builds.)
    Edited by Fiktius on April 12, 2019 2:22PM
  • Luckylancer
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    twing1_ wrote: »
    To everyone that is comparing NB (if they receive a class shield) to sorc: Every class has a damage shield of some kind (though most others scale off of health) except for NB. So giving NB access to a class damage shield would not necessarily be cutting into sorc's class identity at all.

    For some reason, everyone is assuming that the NB shield would scale off of magicka. Nowhere in the original post does it even allude to this. If the shield scaled off of health (like most other class shields do), sorcs would remain as the only class with a magicka based shield and retain their class identity.

    The homogeonization of classes is a fair point. But as it currently stands, that homogeonization (in regards to class shields) already exists, excluding the NB. Giving NB a shield would only bring NB up to speed in this regard, and wouldn't be the end of class differences.

    Dude, max hp and mag shields are ENTIRELY diffrent. Their play styles are diffrent.

    Why do you want max hp shield to buff magblade? Isnt the problem all about how magblades are underperforming in pvp? Do sun shield do magplars any good in pvp?

    If max health shield would be usefull, %36 max hp heal would be used right now. Giving magblade max hp shield wont fix anything, giving magblade mag shield will make thrm sorc clone.

    Solution is giving class hots back, give refreshing path its dmg back and maybe give them magicka snare removal (a blurr morp?) with bulky mag cost so stamblades cant have it.
  • Insco851
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    twing1_ wrote: »
    To everyone that is comparing NB (if they receive a class shield) to sorc: Every class has a damage shield of some kind (though most others scale off of health) except for NB. So giving NB access to a class damage shield would not necessarily be cutting into sorc's class identity at all.

    For some reason, everyone is assuming that the NB shield would scale off of magicka. Nowhere in the original post does it even allude to this. If the shield scaled off of health (like most other class shields do), sorcs would remain as the only class with a magicka based shield and retain their class identity.

    The homogeonization of classes is a fair point. But as it currently stands, that homogeonization (in regards to class shields) already exists, excluding the NB. Giving NB a shield would only bring NB up to speed in this regard, and wouldn't be the end of class differences.

    Dude, max hp and mag shields are ENTIRELY diffrent. Their play styles are diffrent.

    Why do you want max hp shield to buff magblade? Isnt the problem all about how magblades are underperforming in pvp? Do sun shield do magplars any good in pvp?

    If max health shield would be usefull, %36 max hp heal would be used right now. Giving magblade max hp shield wont fix anything, giving magblade mag shield will make thrm sorc clone.

    Solution is giving class hots back, give refreshing path its dmg back and maybe give them magicka snare removal (a blurr morp?) with bulky mag cost so stamblades cant have it.

    25k+ health+Dark cloak+Rapid Regen+Healing ward+BRR


    HP shield would be butt cheeks though.

    Mnb needs a reflect!!!.... jk jk
  • twing1_
    twing1_
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    twing1_ wrote: »
    To everyone that is comparing NB (if they receive a class shield) to sorc: Every class has a damage shield of some kind (though most others scale off of health) except for NB. So giving NB access to a class damage shield would not necessarily be cutting into sorc's class identity at all.

    For some reason, everyone is assuming that the NB shield would scale off of magicka. Nowhere in the original post does it even allude to this. If the shield scaled off of health (like most other class shields do), sorcs would remain as the only class with a magicka based shield and retain their class identity.

    The homogeonization of classes is a fair point. But as it currently stands, that homogeonization (in regards to class shields) already exists, excluding the NB. Giving NB a shield would only bring NB up to speed in this regard, and wouldn't be the end of class differences.

    Dude, max hp and mag shields are ENTIRELY diffrent. Their play styles are diffrent.

    Why do you want max hp shield to buff magblade? Isnt the problem all about how magblades are underperforming in pvp? Do sun shield do magplars any good in pvp?

    If max health shield would be usefull, %36 max hp heal would be used right now. Giving magblade max hp shield wont fix anything, giving magblade mag shield will make thrm sorc clone.

    Solution is giving class hots back, give refreshing path its dmg back and maybe give them magicka snare removal (a blurr morp?) with bulky mag cost so stamblades cant have it.

    My mag nb runs at 25k health, without health food in PvP zones.

    A health scaling shield wouldn't be as strong as a shield that scaled off of my 30k magicka, but it would definitely be useful (about 83% as useful, to be exact). The shield would greatly improve my survivability.

    I know, my health is a bit higher than most magblades, but I am in no way making a large investment to get my hp pool so high (I put 14 whole attribute points into health and run 2 pcs of heavy armor).

    Health stacking is so available to NB given their class passives that a health scaling shield makes perfect sense. If an NB doesn't take advantage of it, it is a problem with the player ignoring their survivability tools rather than a problem with the tools themselves.

    Edit: And yes, I completely agree that having the shield scaling off of health instead of magicka would demand a different playstyle. Because of this, the proposed health shield would actually promote NBs to play in a different style than sorcs, thereby increasing class diversity.
    Edited by twing1_ on April 12, 2019 11:13PM
  • Emma_Overload
    Emma_Overload
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    ATomiX96 wrote: »
    "CAN WE HAVE CLOAK THEN?" ~every sorc on this damned forum

    Thanks for saying it for me!
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    ATomiX96 wrote: »
    "CAN WE HAVE CLOAK THEN?" ~every sorc on this damned forum

    Thanks for saying it for me!

    Yea, I’m starting to think you guys are right. Let’s have some faith in the devs that they can balance things without making every class the same.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Chelo
    Chelo
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    Fiktius wrote: »
    Greetings everyone!

    I bet many of you have a memory of Murkmire balance changes and how those changes affected different classes, especially magicka based classes.
    I'm aware that shield changes and how they functions did impact several classes a lot, but it's a fact that these very same issues did impact Mag Blades heavily as well, making gameplay in PvP combat much more tricky. In this thread I'll be talking from solo mag NB player's perspective and explain why I think why ability re-design could turn out to be giant quality of life improvement, regarding mag blades.

    What kind of change I'm asking for then?

    Re-designing a Nightblade skill to function as actual damage shield.

    Why I think that way?

    Let's take a look at Magicka Nightblades class skills. Can you spot actual damage shield? Me neither.
    A class shield does not exist for Nightblades and this previously was not an issue, before Murkmire patch did land on live servers, leaving Mag blade more vulnerable place than they used to be before. For those who prefer to fight visible, they have only two kind of shields available: Annulment (and its morphs) and Steadfast Ward (and its morphs).

    Why is that problematic?

    As many players are aware, Nightblades do have a cloack, which you can not always rely against competitive enemies with counters.
    Once you're thrown out of your cloack with detection pots/AOE skills and you're starting to get heavy pressure, there are a few things which you can do:
    Continue teleporting with shade occassionally or try to activate LA shield/healing ward and depending of your build and your resistances, those shields lasts often quite short time before they are gone.
    How many of you still remember what happened to healing ward at Murkmire patch? Yes, right, first burst heal was completely removed and now what you can do as a mag blade is activating healing ward and cloacking away, trying to force the final heal. However that's problematic by two reasons:
    When you do so and activate cloack for trying to protect your precious shield, you give a great opportunity for your enemy to recover and gain some HP. But why to stop there?
    Why to let slippery Nightblade vanish with cloack, when detection pots/Aoes exists?
    At that point Magblade find themselves often trying layer shields and protect healing ward with LA shield. That may not end well, if NB can't find a way to turn tables around.
    ALSO there are always those moments when an ally is near and sometimes you won't get the healing ward for yourself at first place.
    This kind of situation you can try to counter by slotting "Ward Ally" morph instead, guaranteeing a shield for you when you activate the skill and get shield for yourself & possible ally and then keep filling your HP bar by another healing skills. But then again this is exactly what we have to do anyways with healing ward too, when being outside of cloack.
    What's the point, when against competitive opponent those cute little shields will be wiped off quickly?

    Why class shield would be quality of life improvement?

    If mag blades could get actual damage shield from their class skill line, we could slot reliable damage shield and magicka nightblades could finally get out of pigeonhole which is almost forcing us to use healing ward at most common PvP builds. We could get more build variety as a result, when class shield could replace healing ward and restoration staves could be thrown out of window.

    Why do I suggest this now?

    Since developers already mentioned at "Update 22 Combat Direction" - thread that they're looking into classes tool kits and perhaps reworking skills, which are providing similar effects.
    They may have some visions already how to do changes, but if there is any room for further possible adjustments, it would be amazing if some improvements could be considered.
    And that's exact reason why I'm posting this thread right now. Getting class shield for mag Blades would be significant QOL - improvement for these underdogs of PvP.

    Dude, they are getting rid of the Wings Reflect, I dont need no shield, actualy I dont need any buff at all, they can take away everything they want from me now! Im super happy! Finaly after 5 years, I going to be able to at least Damage a DK...

    So happy!!!
    Edited by Chelo on April 15, 2019 3:30AM
  • Fiktius
    Fiktius
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    Chelo wrote: »

    Dude, they are getting rid of the Wings Reflect, I dont need no shield, actualy I dont need any buff at all, they can take away everything they want from me now! Im super happy! Finaly after 5 years, I going to be able to at least Damage a DK...

    So happy!!!

    My suggestion got nothing to do with previous stage of struggle which ranged gameplay style provided with projectiles being reflected in the face. If healing ward will remain the same, it does not matter does DK flap wings front of your face or not: you may not still get the ward when you need it most.
    Hope that your allies are watching your 1vs1 in Cyrodiil with binoculars, so they won't accidentally cause your death via being too close.

    However I can't wait to read further patch notes and see what kind of other changes we're about to get. :)
    Edited by Fiktius on April 15, 2019 12:29PM
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Is it weird I’m planning my day around reading the patch notes? Watch GoT then read the notes...
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Fiktius
    Fiktius
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Is it weird I’m planning my day around reading the patch notes? Watch GoT then read the notes...

    Not at all. I'm reading every single natch potes threads I find, even when I know that those barely include anything additional.
    At least memes are good. :'D
  • MassiveFumes
    MassiveFumes
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    Not a class shield but maybe a defensive buff(I know mirage but that isn't that noticeable) or minor protection without slotting Undo somehow. Maybe add a some type defensive buff to siphoning strikes that refreshes for maybe 2/3 sec every time you land a light attack. Advanced players would have to know to light attack when on the defensive if they don't already// wouldn't help scrubs.
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