Dragonscale Crown crates are predatory.

Kahrgan

Everyone knows its gambling, sure... and im generally not one to shy away from a little gambling, but the benefit of the crown crates has always been if you dont get what you want by RNG you can unlock them via crown gems..

Radiant mounts... are severely predatory however. Completely locked behind RNG.

I spent quite a bit of money this time around, and nothing to show for it (as far as the things I wanted) I got a bunch of junk and mounts I couldnt care less about.

Put radiant mounts for a higher crown gem cost if you have to... but do not lock things 100% behind RNG when it comes to spending RL money.

Paazhahdrimaak

There wasn't anything worth it on this time around. But crates will always rob you

StormChaser3000

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

There wasn't anything worth it on this time around. But crates will always rob you

I slightly disagree.
The sweetroll bear looks good. One of two bear skins I actually like in this game (racoon one from fire crates is ok looking too).
Also, the frost skin is very useful to hide vampirism on some characters.

xF1REFL1x

For me there hasn't been anything that caught my interest in the last to crate releases. I will never go for crates because of radiant mounts... but only if they have other cool things to offer which I havent seen in a while. These new mounts just don't do it for me... kind of like the last ones. It seems all they focus on is the radiant mounts which arent all that unique this time around either. Put some glowing lights on them and call them special. I'd rather wait for a sure thing than blow my money on a bunch of stuff I would never use. Again this is just my opinion...

IzzyStardust

I love the rainbow 🌈 memento - but dammit zos, Why was this not an emote!?!! I would have loved that in PVP!

I love the hand puppet, too - your char even goes ‘mehmehmeh’ to it! Also it IS an emote - which is fabulous!

I got the apex wolf mount which appears very smoothly, and rides nice tbh not a fan of wolves but rather like this one!

I also got the pretty (non apex/radiant) senche, the azura body and face markings, and the bronze eye shadow among other things; which are all very nice!

I got a few banners which I cashed in for gems.

I bought the 5500 and the 3000 crown packs and spent them all + the 300 I had left on crates - I believe the total was 25.

Mercanis

I would be completely behind even a seemingly ridiculous gem cost for radiants so long as you actually get them. I spent a fair amount as well, and yeah, that's on me and it's a gamble, but it's my money so I don't usually mind. But jesus these ones are awful.

FleetwoodSmack

IzzyStardust wrote: »

I love the rainbow 🌈 memento - but dammit zos, Why was this not an emote!?!! I would have loved that in PVP!

I love the hand puppet, too - your char even goes ‘mehmehmeh’ to it! Also it IS an emote - which is fabulous!

I got the apex wolf mount which appears very smoothly, and rides nice tbh not a fan of wolves but rather like this one!

I also got the pretty (non apex/radiant) senche, the azura body and face markings, and the bronze eye shadow among other things; which are all very nice!

I got a few banners which I cashed in for gems.

I bought the 5500 and the 3000 crown packs and spent them all + the 300 I had left on crates - I believe the total was 25.

I'm willing to bet they didn't allow the rainbow memento as an emote because of the salt it'd create in PvP. I'd have loved it too. ;_;

Quantact

I liked two things in this Crate series: one, the Dwarven weapons and two, the 16 Crown Gem bronze eyeshadow mod. I saw a really attractively-made Breton character who made use of that eyeshadow mod, and I think it's proof that excellent content doesn't HAVE to cost a gazillion crowns/crown gems.

I don't think loot crates or Crown Store are "predatory" per se. There's a pervasive belief on internet games and hangouts that they are somehow different from other businesses. I mean, would you go to a coffee shop and park on one of the couches and use the wi-fi without buying a coffee and a muffin or something? No, it's inappropriate and they'd probably ask you to leave. ESO is on a giant scale, but this game requires the resources of a movie studio to release solid continuation content for, and they're paying top dollar for professional writers, professional coders, professional artists, marketing, etc. How on earth could they create such a good game if they weren't making money off of us?

I mean, I don't buy into the "Don't like it? Don't buy it." mentality either, because the game uses expert marketing and if you're logged in eight hours you're seeing essentially an eight hour long commercial for Crown store incentives such as mounts and costumes. Anything you could possibly want to resist buying but kinda sorta want is marching around all around you, along with the happy gamers riding their Storm Atronach Guars. So yeah, they're influencing us and you have to have an evolutionary advantage to "don't like it, don't buy it."

It really comes down to a successful business needing to create success, though. This is a top MMORPG and it needs top dollar to continue solid development, and that's not going to happen unless we spend money to keep ESO in existence. Now, it's a problem if you have impulse control issues, but not being able to get EVERYTHING is not predatory, it just means you have to be a little choosy about what you get in the store.

I got bad luck with RNG on the crates this time around, I won't lie about it. But I DID get what I wanted -- the Dwarven weapons and the 16 crown gem eyeshadow, and I got tons of gems for the next crown crate series. I wanted the Solar horse but the odds were not feasible. I agree that the Radiant mounts are beautiful and should be more accessible, but it still holds true that there's a metric ton of accessible stuff. It's only going to be a good game if we support it, and it's illogical to expect quality updates unless there's earnings for the company to enable such spending on development of content.

Sorry for the tl;dr.

Ankael07

Can you guys imagine this type of transaction in real life? Imagine you want to furnish your house but you need to buy ''Furnishing Card Packs'' and open them to get the same refrigerator 5 times

Quantact

Ankael07 wrote: »

Can you guys imagine this type of transaction in real life? Imagine you want to furnish your house but you need to buy ''Furnishing Card Packs'' and open them to get the same refrigerator 5 times

No, in real life you have to deal with contractors who skip out on building your house addition to do other jobs that are fast and they know you can't do anything about it, and your home isn't complete for like 2 years.

Or maybe you sign up for a communications plan (cell) and a year later find out that they lied to you about literally everything you signed up for.

Might I also point out that getting just one refrigerator will cost more than probably every ESO house combined, and your ESO house(ses) don't need upkeep and maintenance fees such as electricity?

We come to fantasy worlds to get away from a lot of things, so while virtual reality isn't the same as the real world, it does have its moments.

HappyLittleTree

Unpopular opinion:

I liked the Xanmeer Mounts more.

Sengra

Ankael07 wrote: »

Might I also point out that getting just one refrigerator will cost more than probably every ESO house combined, and your ESO house(ses) don't need upkeep and maintenance fees such as electricity?

I need ESO+ to be able to redecorate my house that I and a couple of other people use for RP. So the simple act of putting an item in there or moving it from inside to outside requires a subscription. And I need a PC, internet and electricity to play ESO.

We come to fantasy worlds to get away from a lot of things

Exactly.

luizhd

Of course it`s predatory lol. The whole psychology behind Lootboxes is to filter casual spenders from wales, enticing the former to give in to their addictive nature and low self control. The only reason it`s not considered "gambling" by the law in most counties (yet) is because technically you always get a "prize" and that`s done 100% on purpose in order to avoid breaking the law. I mean, come on... not only you can get duplicates in these crates, but the first 3 tiers of prizes are complete garbage everyone turns into gems to see if they can eventually buy something useful. Look at the sheer amount of garbage you need to get past in order to get the lowest ranking mounts



50, FIFTY prizes!!!!

So far I`ve opened around 11 boxes. 10 free twitch drop crates and the one you get when you reach a certain level. Every single free would only give me white or green tier prizes while the one I got by leveling up gave me a blue one. That means I was only able to get up to tier 3 out of 7.

2 days ago I saw a thread done by a guy who spent 150 bucks opening crates in order to get the top apex mount and still couldn`t get it. Know what`s even worse? Even if he turned every useless junk he got instead into gems he STILL wouldn`t be able to get the mount he wanted.

Naive is the person who thinks that isn`t the case. The worst kind however are the Enablers, which you can see quite often in the forum. Even in this exact thread. They`ll quickly try to rationalize why Lootboxes are alright by comparing real life costs with in-game premium purchases or say you need to pay for service A to use Service B in real life, so doing the same in a game is no different. Most of them have already spent dozens, hundreds or even thousands of dollars in games and accepting they are enablers and actively working against themselves and the rest of the player base would be too much for them to do so. Instead of that they`ll keep trying to justify it.

It`s a lost battle, dude. Honestly most forum users in here are long-time players who will pay for anything bethesda throws at them. You wont get a lot of support in here.

Zacuel

The house always wins.

Quantact

luizhd wrote: »

Of course it`s predatory lol. The whole psychology behind Lootboxes is to filter casual spenders from wales, enticing the former to give in to their addictive nature and low self control. The only reason it`s not considered "gambling" by the law in most counties (yet) is because technically you always get a "prize" and that`s done 100% on purpose in order to avoid breaking the law. I mean, come on... not only you can get duplicates in these crates, but the first 3 tiers of prizes are complete garbage everyone turns into gems to see if they can eventually buy something useful.

2 days ago I saw a thread done by a guy who spent 150 bucks opening crates in order to get the top apex mount and still couldn`t get it. Know what`s even worse? Even if he turned every useless junk he got instead into gems he STILL wouldn`t be able to get the mount he wanted.

Naive is the person who thinks that isn`t the case. The worst kind however are the Enablers, which you can see quite often in the forum. Even in this exact thread. They`ll quickly try to rationalize why Lootboxes are alright by comparing real life costs with in-game premium purchases or say you need to pay for service A to use Service B in real life, so doing the same in a game is no different. Most of them have already spent dozens, hundreds or even thousands of dollars in games and accepting they are enablers and actively working against themselves and the rest of the player base would be too much for them to do so. Instead of that they`ll keep trying to justify it.

It`s a lost battle, dude. Honestly most forum users in here are long-time players who will pay for anything bethesda throws at them. You wont get a lot of support in here.

That guy that spent the 150 bucks was actually me. So you're calling me naive and an enabler in the same post. Thank you for your kindness, lol! Trying for a Radiant -- particularly a specific Radiant -- WAS extremely dumb of me, and I won't do that again.

The chief problem with your thinking is that you explicitly say that Crown Crates only have good stuff at the top tiers, and that all of the lower tier stuff is worthless. The most useful item in this series is the Arctic Rime 40 gem skin lets you make your ugly vampire into a pale but otherwise normal looking character. 40 gems for something tons of people have explicitly said they wanted, and God-knows-how-many wanted but didn't say.

Then there's a 16 crown gem bronze eyeshadow eye mod. I saw somebody in the Craglorn market use that to create probably the most attractive blond Breton girl character I've ever seen.

I understand you're salty, but you should understand that your contempt isn't going to keep this game open. Like any other company, they need to pay everybody that works for them, and the servers, and the marketing, and frankly make a profit over that. The people you despise make that happen while you want to play for free but haven't given a moment's thought how that's going to keep this game alive and developed.

luizhd

Quantact wrote: »

luizhd wrote: »

Of course it`s predatory lol. The whole psychology behind Lootboxes is to filter casual spenders from wales, enticing the former to give in to their addictive nature and low self control. The only reason it`s not considered "gambling" by the law in most counties (yet) is because technically you always get a "prize" and that`s done 100% on purpose in order to avoid breaking the law. I mean, come on... not only you can get duplicates in these crates, but the first 3 tiers of prizes are complete garbage everyone turns into gems to see if they can eventually buy something useful.

2 days ago I saw a thread done by a guy who spent 150 bucks opening crates in order to get the top apex mount and still couldn`t get it. Know what`s even worse? Even if he turned every useless junk he got instead into gems he STILL wouldn`t be able to get the mount he wanted.

Naive is the person who thinks that isn`t the case. The worst kind however are the Enablers, which you can see quite often in the forum. Even in this exact thread. They`ll quickly try to rationalize why Lootboxes are alright by comparing real life costs with in-game premium purchases or say you need to pay for service A to use Service B in real life, so doing the same in a game is no different. Most of them have already spent dozens, hundreds or even thousands of dollars in games and accepting they are enablers and actively working against themselves and the rest of the player base would be too much for them to do so. Instead of that they`ll keep trying to justify it.

It`s a lost battle, dude. Honestly most forum users in here are long-time players who will pay for anything bethesda throws at them. You wont get a lot of support in here.

That guy that spent the 150 bucks was actually me. So you're calling me naive and an enabler in the same post. Thank you for your kindness, lol! Trying for a Radiant -- particularly a specific Radiant -- WAS extremely dumb of me, and I won't do that again.

The chief problem with your thinking is that you explicitly say that Crown Crates only have good stuff at the top tiers, and that all of the lower tier stuff is worthless. The most useful item in this series is the Arctic Rime 40 gem skin lets you make your ugly vampire into a pale but otherwise normal looking character. 40 gems for something tons of people have explicitly said they wanted, and God-knows-how-many wanted but didn't say.

Then there's a 16 crown gem bronze eyeshadow eye mod. I saw somebody in the Craglorn market use that to create probably the most attractive blond Breton girl character I've ever seen.

I understand you're salty, but you should understand that your contempt isn't going to keep this game open. Like any other company, they need to pay everybody that works for them, and the servers, and the marketing, and frankly make a profit over that. The people you despise make that happen while you want to play for free but haven't given a moment's thought how that's going to keep this game alive and developed.

I know you`re upset because I called you and people like you out, but really? You`re using the "you`re salty" to try and lower the credibility of my arguments? Your entire comment was well written and logically cohesive (at least when it comes to acceptable personal logic), but did you really have to ruin it by just trying to trigger me ? Meh. Am I upset they add every cool item in a glorified gambling machine? Sure and if you wanna consider that as being salty... well... be my guest?

Anyways. I feel like your reply supports most if not all of what I said.You did however touch on something I forgot citing and that is Enablers who try justifying the existence of lootboxes by giving worthless items a value. Sure I guess if we separated everyone and took in consideration every single opinion separately we could find people that like low tier rewards A or B. Maybe we`d even find some people that do buy the crates to get that skin that makes you look slightly frozen. Saying that`s not a possibility would be silly of me. However don`t try to deny that the vast majority buys them so they can get the rare mounts. A quick look on the crown forum and you`ll see that most of the crate related posts are of people wanting them.

Also, just claiming people are always asking for these things in a forum full of long-time players that, as I have stated before, will pay for everything bethesda throws at them doesn`t really help you in any way. Who could have guessed a forum full of enablers would actively enable a company to take advantage of them?! (sorry for the sarcasm) Also, just because people want things to be sold in the crown store, it doesn`t mean they want said items to be in lootcrates. I`m willing bet that the vast majority would prefer being able to buy any of the prizes directly from the store instead of having to gamble for it. I mean, wouldn`t you? You paid 150 bucks and didn`t get what you primarily wanted. Wouldn`t you prefer to have that same prize being sold separately for 20 bucks instead?

I`ve spent around 40 bucks in cosmetics in this game and would be willing to spend more, so I`m not complaining for being cheap, I`m doing that because I feel I have the moral obligation to denounce mal-practices and call people out when they enable it.

Edit:

Somehow I skipped part of your final pargraph. Sorry.
Anyways, yes, development companies need money in order to keep running, but let`s not act as if Bethesda is small company in need of capital. Their latest and lowest ranking released game, Fallout 76, sold so much they boasted the number of players live on their latest group interview. You`re not saving the game by promoting their free-to-play lootcrate system. You`re just letting them know you`re cool with their products having bad monetization. Take a look on their new Mobile game, for example. It`s basically pay-to-progress. Once you finish a certain amount of dungeons you gotta pay for crates to get enough material to build the required buildings to move forwards. Either that or wait 2 to 6 hours for each chest to be unlocked. Come on. Stop protecting companies. They aren`t your friends.

Quantact

luizhd wrote: »

Quantact wrote: »

luizhd wrote: »

Of course it`s predatory lol. The whole psychology behind Lootboxes is to filter casual spenders from wales, enticing the former to give in to their addictive nature and low self control. The only reason it`s not considered "gambling" by the law in most counties (yet) is because technically you always get a "prize" and that`s done 100% on purpose in order to avoid breaking the law. I mean, come on... not only you can get duplicates in these crates, but the first 3 tiers of prizes are complete garbage everyone turns into gems to see if they can eventually buy something useful.

2 days ago I saw a thread done by a guy who spent 150 bucks opening crates in order to get the top apex mount and still couldn`t get it. Know what`s even worse? Even if he turned every useless junk he got instead into gems he STILL wouldn`t be able to get the mount he wanted.

Naive is the person who thinks that isn`t the case. The worst kind however are the Enablers, which you can see quite often in the forum. Even in this exact thread. They`ll quickly try to rationalize why Lootboxes are alright by comparing real life costs with in-game premium purchases or say you need to pay for service A to use Service B in real life, so doing the same in a game is no different. Most of them have already spent dozens, hundreds or even thousands of dollars in games and accepting they are enablers and actively working against themselves and the rest of the player base would be too much for them to do so. Instead of that they`ll keep trying to justify it.

It`s a lost battle, dude. Honestly most forum users in here are long-time players who will pay for anything bethesda throws at them. You wont get a lot of support in here.

That guy that spent the 150 bucks was actually me. So you're calling me naive and an enabler in the same post. Thank you for your kindness, lol! Trying for a Radiant -- particularly a specific Radiant -- WAS extremely dumb of me, and I won't do that again.

The chief problem with your thinking is that you explicitly say that Crown Crates only have good stuff at the top tiers, and that all of the lower tier stuff is worthless. The most useful item in this series is the Arctic Rime 40 gem skin lets you make your ugly vampire into a pale but otherwise normal looking character. 40 gems for something tons of people have explicitly said they wanted, and God-knows-how-many wanted but didn't say.

Then there's a 16 crown gem bronze eyeshadow eye mod. I saw somebody in the Craglorn market use that to create probably the most attractive blond Breton girl character I've ever seen.

I understand you're salty, but you should understand that your contempt isn't going to keep this game open. Like any other company, they need to pay everybody that works for them, and the servers, and the marketing, and frankly make a profit over that. The people you despise make that happen while you want to play for free but haven't given a moment's thought how that's going to keep this game alive and developed.

I know you`re upset because I called you and people like you out, but really? You`re using the "you`re salty" to try and lower the credibility of my arguments? Your entire comment was well written and logically cohesive (at least when it comes to acceptable personal logic), but did you really have to ruin it by just trying to trigger me ? Meh. Am I upset they add every cool item in a glorified gambling machine? Sure and if you wanna consider that as being salty... well... be my guest?

Anyways. I feel like your reply supports most if not all of what I said.You did however touch on something I forgot citing and that is Enablers who try justifying the existence of lootboxes by giving worthless items a value. Sure I guess if we separated everyone and took in consideration every single opinion separately we could find people that like low tier rewards A or B. Maybe we`d even find some people that do buy the crates to get that skin that makes you look slightly frozen. Saying that`s not a possibility would be silly of me. However don`t try to deny that the vast majority buys them so they can get the rare mounts. A quick look on the crown forum and you`ll see that most of the crate related posts are of people wanting them.

Also, just claiming people are always asking for these things in a forum full of long-time players that, as I have stated before, will pay for everything bethesda throws at them doesn`t really help you in any way. Who could have guessed a forum full of enablers would actively enable a company to take advantage of them?! (sorry for the sarcasm) Also, just because people want things to be sold in the crown store, it doesn`t mean they want said items to be in lootcrates. I`m willing bet that the vast majority would prefer being able to buy any of the prizes directly from the store instead of having to gamble for it.

I`ve spent around 40 bucks in cosmetics in this game and would be willing to spend more, so I`m not complaining for being cheap, I`m doing that because I feel I have the moral obligation to denounce mal-practices and call people out when they enable it.

[edit] ZOS hires the same caliber of people that Hollywood does, and a lot of them, they can't chain up those top computer science and art graduates, and those paychecks cost ZOS a fortune. If they don't make a lot of money, this game dies. If they can pay their employees but make no substantial profit on top of that, there is no incentive to continue the project and this game dies. I am not sure what about that you don't understand.

Keeping a company open is only possible if people who use its products, that is US, buy from them. You like the product and want it continued, but making a profit is "predatory." You go to a store, you pay for like jeans, you come in this game and you want it for "free" and nobody with a grain of common sense can understand why different rules should apply, but to you it's self-evident. [edit]

[edited for baiting]

luizhd

Quantact wrote: »

luizhd wrote: »

Quantact wrote: »

luizhd wrote: »

Of course it`s predatory lol. The whole psychology behind Lootboxes is to filter casual spenders from wales, enticing the former to give in to their addictive nature and low self control. The only reason it`s not considered "gambling" by the law in most counties (yet) is because technically you always get a "prize" and that`s done 100% on purpose in order to avoid breaking the law. I mean, come on... not only you can get duplicates in these crates, but the first 3 tiers of prizes are complete garbage everyone turns into gems to see if they can eventually buy something useful.

2 days ago I saw a thread done by a guy who spent 150 bucks opening crates in order to get the top apex mount and still couldn`t get it. Know what`s even worse? Even if he turned every useless junk he got instead into gems he STILL wouldn`t be able to get the mount he wanted.

Naive is the person who thinks that isn`t the case. The worst kind however are the Enablers, which you can see quite often in the forum. Even in this exact thread. They`ll quickly try to rationalize why Lootboxes are alright by comparing real life costs with in-game premium purchases or say you need to pay for service A to use Service B in real life, so doing the same in a game is no different. Most of them have already spent dozens, hundreds or even thousands of dollars in games and accepting they are enablers and actively working against themselves and the rest of the player base would be too much for them to do so. Instead of that they`ll keep trying to justify it.

It`s a lost battle, dude. Honestly most forum users in here are long-time players who will pay for anything bethesda throws at them. You wont get a lot of support in here.

That guy that spent the 150 bucks was actually me. So you're calling me naive and an enabler in the same post. Thank you for your kindness, lol! Trying for a Radiant -- particularly a specific Radiant -- WAS extremely dumb of me, and I won't do that again.

The chief problem with your thinking is that you explicitly say that Crown Crates only have good stuff at the top tiers, and that all of the lower tier stuff is worthless. The most useful item in this series is the Arctic Rime 40 gem skin lets you make your ugly vampire into a pale but otherwise normal looking character. 40 gems for something tons of people have explicitly said they wanted, and God-knows-how-many wanted but didn't say.

Then there's a 16 crown gem bronze eyeshadow eye mod. I saw somebody in the Craglorn market use that to create probably the most attractive blond Breton girl character I've ever seen.

I understand you're salty, but you should understand that your contempt isn't going to keep this game open. Like any other company, they need to pay everybody that works for them, and the servers, and the marketing, and frankly make a profit over that. The people you despise make that happen while you want to play for free but haven't given a moment's thought how that's going to keep this game alive and developed.

I know you`re upset because I called you and people like you out, but really? You`re using the "you`re salty" to try and lower the credibility of my arguments? Your entire comment was well written and logically cohesive (at least when it comes to acceptable personal logic), but did you really have to ruin it by just trying to trigger me ? Meh. Am I upset they add every cool item in a glorified gambling machine? Sure and if you wanna consider that as being salty... well... be my guest?

Anyways. I feel like your reply supports most if not all of what I said.You did however touch on something I forgot citing and that is Enablers who try justifying the existence of lootboxes by giving worthless items a value. Sure I guess if we separated everyone and took in consideration every single opinion separately we could find people that like low tier rewards A or B. Maybe we`d even find some people that do buy the crates to get that skin that makes you look slightly frozen. Saying that`s not a possibility would be silly of me. However don`t try to deny that the vast majority buys them so they can get the rare mounts. A quick look on the crown forum and you`ll see that most of the crate related posts are of people wanting them.

Also, just claiming people are always asking for these things in a forum full of long-time players that, as I have stated before, will pay for everything bethesda throws at them doesn`t really help you in any way. Who could have guessed a forum full of enablers would actively enable a company to take advantage of them?! (sorry for the sarcasm) Also, just because people want things to be sold in the crown store, it doesn`t mean they want said items to be in lootcrates. I`m willing bet that the vast majority would prefer being able to buy any of the prizes directly from the store instead of having to gamble for it.

I`ve spent around 40 bucks in cosmetics in this game and would be willing to spend more, so I`m not complaining for being cheap, I`m doing that because I feel I have the moral obligation to denounce mal-practices and call people out when they enable it.

Unlike North Korea, we don't have slave labor in this country, and we have to PAY people for goods and services. ZOS hires the same caliber of people that Hollywood does, and a lot of them, they can't chain up those top computer science and art graduates, and those paychecks cost ZOS a fortune. If they don't make a lot of money, this game dies. If they can pay their employees but make no substantial profit on top of that, there is no incentive to continue the project and this game dies. I am not sure what about that you don't understand.

Keeping a company open is only possible if people who use its products, that is US, buy from them. You like the product and want it continued, but making a profit is "predatory." You go to a store, you pay for like jeans, you come in this game and you want it for "free" and nobody with a grain of common sense can understand the difference, but to you it's self-evident. Not only is it self-evident, but people who understand that this is a company with costs that needs profits is an "enabler" and "naive" but God forbid they "trigger" you. Jesus Christ.

I`ve already touched on the "companies need money" argument on my edit. You`re free to check the past reply again if you feel like it. Sorry I couldn`t edit it fast enough as I`m at work and multi-tasking.

luizhd

Also, not only I`ve purchased the game and all of the expansions so far, but, like I have previously stated, I`ve also purchased cosmetics in the crown store. So your "you expect it to be for free" argument makes no sense. I don`t know if you glossed over this part or not, so I figured I`d point that out. Also, I never said a company wanting to make a profit is predatory. To make such a claim i`d have to make a big statement about capitalism itself, which I`m not. I`m saying lootboxes are predatory. Please don`t misrepresent my position towards this specific subject.

Actually, now that I think about it, I`ve purchased the base game for 2 different people and both morrowind and summerset expansions to one of them. So when it comes to "supporting" the company, I`m pretty sure I`m in their "good customer" list

Quantact

luizhd wrote: »

Quantact wrote: »

luizhd wrote: »

Quantact wrote: »

luizhd wrote: »

Of course it`s predatory lol. The whole psychology behind Lootboxes is to filter casual spenders from wales, enticing the former to give in to their addictive nature and low self control. The only reason it`s not considered "gambling" by the law in most counties (yet) is because technically you always get a "prize" and that`s done 100% on purpose in order to avoid breaking the law. I mean, come on... not only you can get duplicates in these crates, but the first 3 tiers of prizes are complete garbage everyone turns into gems to see if they can eventually buy something useful.

2 days ago I saw a thread done by a guy who spent 150 bucks opening crates in order to get the top apex mount and still couldn`t get it. Know what`s even worse? Even if he turned every useless junk he got instead into gems he STILL wouldn`t be able to get the mount he wanted.

Naive is the person who thinks that isn`t the case. The worst kind however are the Enablers, which you can see quite often in the forum. Even in this exact thread. They`ll quickly try to rationalize why Lootboxes are alright by comparing real life costs with in-game premium purchases or say you need to pay for service A to use Service B in real life, so doing the same in a game is no different. Most of them have already spent dozens, hundreds or even thousands of dollars in games and accepting they are enablers and actively working against themselves and the rest of the player base would be too much for them to do so. Instead of that they`ll keep trying to justify it.

It`s a lost battle, dude. Honestly most forum users in here are long-time players who will pay for anything bethesda throws at them. You wont get a lot of support in here.

That guy that spent the 150 bucks was actually me. So you're calling me naive and an enabler in the same post. Thank you for your kindness, lol! Trying for a Radiant -- particularly a specific Radiant -- WAS extremely dumb of me, and I won't do that again.

The chief problem with your thinking is that you explicitly say that Crown Crates only have good stuff at the top tiers, and that all of the lower tier stuff is worthless. The most useful item in this series is the Arctic Rime 40 gem skin lets you make your ugly vampire into a pale but otherwise normal looking character. 40 gems for something tons of people have explicitly said they wanted, and God-knows-how-many wanted but didn't say.

Then there's a 16 crown gem bronze eyeshadow eye mod. I saw somebody in the Craglorn market use that to create probably the most attractive blond Breton girl character I've ever seen.

I understand you're salty, but you should understand that your contempt isn't going to keep this game open. Like any other company, they need to pay everybody that works for them, and the servers, and the marketing, and frankly make a profit over that. The people you despise make that happen while you want to play for free but haven't given a moment's thought how that's going to keep this game alive and developed.

I know you`re upset because I called you and people like you out, but really? You`re using the "you`re salty" to try and lower the credibility of my arguments? Your entire comment was well written and logically cohesive (at least when it comes to acceptable personal logic), but did you really have to ruin it by just trying to trigger me ? Meh. Am I upset they add every cool item in a glorified gambling machine? Sure and if you wanna consider that as being salty... well... be my guest?

Anyways. I feel like your reply supports most if not all of what I said.You did however touch on something I forgot citing and that is Enablers who try justifying the existence of lootboxes by giving worthless items a value. Sure I guess if we separated everyone and took in consideration every single opinion separately we could find people that like low tier rewards A or B. Maybe we`d even find some people that do buy the crates to get that skin that makes you look slightly frozen. Saying that`s not a possibility would be silly of me. However don`t try to deny that the vast majority buys them so they can get the rare mounts. A quick look on the crown forum and you`ll see that most of the crate related posts are of people wanting them.

Also, just claiming people are always asking for these things in a forum full of long-time players that, as I have stated before, will pay for everything bethesda throws at them doesn`t really help you in any way. Who could have guessed a forum full of enablers would actively enable a company to take advantage of them?! (sorry for the sarcasm) Also, just because people want things to be sold in the crown store, it doesn`t mean they want said items to be in lootcrates. I`m willing bet that the vast majority would prefer being able to buy any of the prizes directly from the store instead of having to gamble for it.

I`ve spent around 40 bucks in cosmetics in this game and would be willing to spend more, so I`m not complaining for being cheap, I`m doing that because I feel I have the moral obligation to denounce mal-practices and call people out when they enable it.

Unlike North Korea, we don't have slave labor in this country, and we have to PAY people for goods and services. ZOS hires the same caliber of people that Hollywood does, and a lot of them, they can't chain up those top computer science and art graduates, and those paychecks cost ZOS a fortune. If they don't make a lot of money, this game dies. If they can pay their employees but make no substantial profit on top of that, there is no incentive to continue the project and this game dies. I am not sure what about that you don't understand.

Keeping a company open is only possible if people who use its products, that is US, buy from them. You like the product and want it continued, but making a profit is "predatory." You go to a store, you pay for like jeans, you come in this game and you want it for "free" and nobody with a grain of common sense can understand the difference, but to you it's self-evident. Not only is it self-evident, but people who understand that this is a company with costs that needs profits is an "enabler" and "naive" but God forbid they "trigger" you. Jesus Christ.

I`ve already touched on the "companies need money" argument on my edit. You`re free to check the past reply again if you feel like it. Sorry I couldn`t edit it fast enough as I`m at work and multi-tasking.

Somehow I skipped part of your final pargraph. Sorry.
Anyways, yes, development companies need money in order to keep running, but let`s not act as if Bethesda is small company in need of capital. Their latest and lowest ranking released game, Fallout 76, sold so much they boasted the number of players live on their latest group interview. You`re not saving the game by promoting their free-to-play lootcrate system. You`re just letting them know you`re cool with their products having bad monetization. Take a look on their new Mobile game, for example. It`s basically pay-to-progress. Once you finish a certain amount of dungeons you gotta pay for crates to get enough material to build the required buildings to move forwards. Either that or wait 2 to 6 hours for each chest to be unlocked. Come on. Stop protecting companies. They aren`t your friends.

Edit: since you're now pretending you didn't call it "free to play" I copypasted where you did. That's a nice trick, saving another post to pretend I am not addressing your older one, but that's not my fault for not replying, it's your fault for being dishonest about hiow you reply.

Your edit doesn't explain why a giant company operating a giant game somehow doesn't need giant profits needed to pay its employees and make a profit. It does show that you don't even know the difference between free-to-play and this game. I am rapidly approaching the impression that you don't know what the heck you're talking about.

Free-to-play games come with tons of built-in shortcomings which you must pay real money to neutralize. That's why they're called "free-to-play but pay-to-win." Do some Googling and read about one of the most popular free-to-play games, Nexon's Maple Story. The game had no customer support, if you were being stalked, harrassed, your inventory was stolen, you were on your own; the cosmetic items EXPIRED after a time, you had to buy them again. Having an effective character meant you had to pay a hundred different ways, and even your combat items expired due to game mechanics, and you had to spend hundreds or thousands for new ones -- repeatedly.

How exactly is ESO in any way shape or form like this? It is in no substantial way like this, loot-crate-wise or otherwise.

There are only two true examples of this in ESO, and that's the Imperial add-on and the Any-race-any-faction, with the extra character slots being somewhat applicable but not truly necessary. The subscription is truly necessary only for the crafting bag, but if you aren't into crafting (which is entirely possible because there's tons of people willing to help with most gear) you don't need that. You might perhaps argue that Warden class was behind a paywall, but because of how updates in this game work, older DLC becomes part of the main game after a while.

Crown crate stuff that is gameplay-affecting is almost always the least desirable stuff, like riding lessons and experience scrolls. If you get a Grand Crown Scroll out of a crate, that's deconstructed for gems. You get a couple free ones of that every month through dailies, in fact you get so many experience scrolls and such that in my experience the little incentive to buy those before doesn't exist anymore.

So, if ESO's crown store and crown crates are substantially only for cosmetics and usually don't touch game mechanics, and you have a subscription and you buy the game itself, how on Earth do you justify calling this a free-to-play game?

Jaimeh

Kahrgan wrote: »

Everyone knows its gambling, sure... and im generally not one to shy away from a little gambling, but the benefit of the crown crates has always been if you dont get what you want by RNG you can unlock them via crown gems..

Radiant mounts... are severely predatory however. Completely locked behind RNG.

I spent quite a bit of money this time around, and nothing to show for it (as far as the things I wanted) I got a bunch of junk and mounts I couldnt care less about.

Put radiant mounts for a higher crown gem cost if you have to... but do not lock things 100% behind RNG when it comes to spending RL money.

They are counting on people buying more and more crates in the hopes of getting the radiant mounts, so they won't put them up for gems, as it seems that model is more lucrative for them, questionable ethics aside. There's a reason why they have some of the most unique looking designs... I wish there was a link to the crown crate drop rates next to the 'buy' button so everyone could be reminded of how abysmally low the drop chances are before buying them, if indeed they are buying them for these mounts.

luizhd

Edit: since you're now pretending you didn't call it "free to play" I copypasted where you did. That's a nice trick, saving another post to pretend I am not addressing your older one, but that's not my fault for not replying, it's your fault for being dishonest about hiow you reply.

You seem to make a habit of misrepresenting what people say. You`re either too angry to read and interpret things correctly or you`re doing it on purpose to make me look bad. The first one is forgivable, the former is pathetic. I`m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Anyways. No. I never said ESO was free-to-play or that the game operated in such way (I imagine that`s what you`re accusing me of doing). I called Lootboxes a "free-to-play system"

Your edit doesn't explain why a giant company operating a giant game somehow doesn't need giant profits needed to pay its employees and make a profit. It does show that you don't even know the difference between free-to-play and this game. I am rapidly approaching the impression that you don't know what the heck you're talking about.

Because I don`t need to explain such a thing since it comes without saying. I`m stating Bethesda and other companies don`t need to sell lootboxes to make said profit. It can be done in many other ways. Also it matters little to me if you think I know what I`m talking about or not. However I`ll still correct you and cal you out since I don`t particularly like when random people on the internet change what I say in order to make me look bad or stupid.

Free-to-play games come with tons of built-in shortcomings which you must pay real money to neutralize. That's why they're called "free-to-play but pay-to-win." Do some Googling and read about one of the most popular free-to-play games, Nexon's Maple Story. The game had no customer support, if you were being stalked, harrassed, your inventory was stolen, you were on your own; the cosmetic items EXPIRED after a time, you had to buy them again. Having an effective character meant you had to pay a hundred different ways, and even your combat items expired due to game mechanics, and you had to spend hundreds or thousands for new ones -- repeatedly.

I don`t need to comment that as I`ve already both stated and proved in no moment I said ESO operated as a free-to-play game, but that it employs a specific ftp predatory tactic

There are only two true examples of this in ESO, and that's the Imperial add-on and the Any-race-any-faction, with the extra character slots being somewhat applicable but not truly necessary. The subscription is truly necessary only for the crafting bag, but if you aren't into crafting (which is entirely possible because there's tons of people willing to help with most gear) you don't need that. You might perhaps argue that Warden class was behind a paywall, but because of how updates in this game work, older DLC becomes part of the main game after a while.

I`m quoting this, but I have nothing to add in here. I just didn`t want you to say I`m ignoring pieces of what you`re saying to further my own narrative or something like that. I agree with you on this one.

Crown crate stuff that is gameplay-affecting is almost always the least desirable stuff, like riding lessons and experience scrolls. If you get a Grand Crown Scroll out of a crate, that's deconstructed for gems. You get a couple free ones of that every month through dailies, in fact you get so many experience scrolls and such that in my experience the little incentive to buy those before doesn't exist anymore.

That falls under the part in which I said giving worth to something worthless and always giving a prize in order to avoid legal problems. They give you a tiny little bit of gems to keep you hooked. It gives you the illusion that even if you lose the game, you can still eventually get a nice prize. It`s customer manipulation 101.

So, if ESO's crown store and crown crates are substantially only for cosmetics and usually don't touch game mechanics, and you have a subscription and you buy the game itself, how on Earth do you justify calling this a free-to-play game?

since i`ve already made it clear I never said ESO works like a free-to-play game, I`ll also disregard this paragraph. My problem is with lootboxes and lootboxes alone.

Myrkgrav

Just don't buy them, we don't have to have this thread every day.

Quantact

luizhd wrote: »

Edit: since you're now pretending you didn't call it "free to play" I copypasted where you did. That's a nice trick, saving another post to pretend I am not addressing your older one, but that's not my fault for not replying, it's your fault for being dishonest about hiow you reply.

You seem to make a habit of misrepresenting what people say. You`re either too angry to read and interpret things correctly or you`re doing it on purpose to make me look bad. The first one is forgivable, the former is pathetic. I`m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Anyways. No. I never said ESO was free-to-play or that the game operated in such way (I imagine that`s what you`re accusing me of doing). I called Lootboxes a "free-to-play system"

[edit]

No, I don't have a habit of misrepresenting what people say, you have a habit of putting up half a post then adding another half a post when the first half is being replied to in order to make the answer to your post seem much weaker and nonsensical than it actually is. That's how you arrive at my so-called "misrepresentation," and that's called you "lying" and being a liar.

Loot crates are 1/2 of this game's paid incentive system. I SPECIFICALLY addressed how loot crates primarily function for cosmetics and the non-cosmetics in crates are undesirable, and I also SPECIFICALLY addressed how cosmetic sales are not free-to-play because free-to-play addresses built-in weaknesses in game mechanics, not cosmetics.

[edit]

[edited for baiting/non-constructive comment]

luizhd

Actually I don't like spamming people with multiple replies, so I edit and add stuff. But whatever. Keep pretending I said what you think I said and go act as if you were victorious on an internet argument. Just like you I'm sick of having to deal with you.

Cya mate. Try not spending too much with lootboxes again.

Edit: wow I just read the final paragraph. Damn calm down buddy. You'll have a stroke lol

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Someone doesn't understand how Western business works.

They aim to make as much money as possible.

What I'm about to say will certainly trigger people, and in this case, that's the point.

The guys at ZOS would like to own Maserati and Ferrari sports cars.

Yes, we as customers are a means to an end to get those pointless cars.

Yes, our money is being spent on things that don't benefit the game at all.

That's how business works. If this offends you, well, Cuba & China are fairly easy to reach. Have fun.

luizhd

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Someone doesn't understand how Western business works.

They aim to make as much money as possible.

What I'm about to say will certainly trigger people, and in this case, that's the point.

The guys at ZOS would like to own Maserati and Ferrari sports cars.

Yes, we as customers are a means to an end to get those pointless cars.

Yes, our money is being spent on things that don't benefit the game at all.

That's how business works. If this offends you, well, Cuba & China are fairly easy to reach. Have fun.

You won't see me disagreeing with you here. Like I stated before, I'm criticizing lootboxes from a consumer point of view , I'm not trying to make a big anti-capitalism statement

luizhd

Hey, OP. There`s no need to shame people for things they have no control over like a psychological issue. Why not have some respect instead of stooping to that kind of level. That person is putting some effort into getting out there and being vulnerable.

Let`s all act like adults here.

Hanokihs

FWIW, these crates aren't particularly more predatory than any crate season since the Dwarven one (season 3?), since that's when Radiant mounts were first introduced. Unless, of course, you feel like the drop rates have been adjusted somewhere, which is probably a different argument for a different thread.

I think most Radiants, to practically "guarantee" at least one drop, are still somewhere around $1000USD in total crate purchases. It sucks, but pretty much everyone has given up on fighting that system. Doesn't hurt that said Radiants are becoming less and less aesthetically pleasing to most of the people willing to shell out that kind of cash.

MasterSpatula

Save some of your ire for everyone who ever rewarded this behavior. Not all of or even most of it, certainly, but some.

Ohtimbar

It's all predatory.