DK is corny af rn

Kartalin

Iskiab wrote: »

DKs seem to complain if they can’t tank 10 people at once without a defensive set.

Some people still remember back when DK was much stronger...
Edit: DK emp in the case of the video
.

Thogard

Jeezye wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DKs offense is primarily single target, making it good at dueling but not so great in group vs group stuff

I actually strongly disagree with what you are saying here. I just dusted off my magdk, threw in some random BSW + bloodthorn pieces with a lightning staff and have absolutly amazing aoe damage. WoE, inhale, leap, talons are all extremely strong and resource efficient skills. I'm not saying I'm expert at playing magdk, but I'm sure if I round up my build and sharpen my skills this build absolutly destroys in group combat, and there's a lot of passive bonuses magdk brings to the group.

I’m primarily referring to Stam DKs

Draxys

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DKs offense is primarily single target, making it good at dueling but not so great in group vs group stuff

Why aren’t they good in groups? If anything they’re top 3 group support. Debatably Top 1 or 2 for group support dps, magden is my choice, best group support all around.

Magdk has aoe damage, snares, roots, ultimates, group buff and while the cc is single target it’s still effective. Out of all classes magdk is probably the best class overall in this meta when you consider how well they do in 1v1 and group play. Because what other spec does both at the same level as magdk? Magplar?

DKs have some great niche group builds, like defile tank, roots, etc. The problem is that everything they can do, another class does it better. Sorc has a better root, talons range is pitiful. Wardens are better for defile builds. They do okay aoe damage, but stam warden and mag NB do way more. DB over leap for groups (although not as fun), magma shell not useful, standard is fine but again warden defiles. Minor brutality is cool though, I guess, but every other class has far superior damage passives that make them more desirable in a group.

Thogard

Draxys wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DKs offense is primarily single target, making it good at dueling but not so great in group vs group stuff

Why aren’t they good in groups? If anything they’re top 3 group support. Debatably Top 1 or 2 for group support dps, magden is my choice, best group support all around.

Magdk has aoe damage, snares, roots, ultimates, group buff and while the cc is single target it’s still effective. Out of all classes magdk is probably the best class overall in this meta when you consider how well they do in 1v1 and group play. Because what other spec does both at the same level as magdk? Magplar?

DKs have some great niche group builds, like defile tank, roots, etc. The problem is that everything they can do, another class does it better. Sorc has a better root, talons range is pitiful. Wardens are better for defile builds. They do okay aoe damage, but stam warden and mag NB do way more. DB over leap for groups (although not as fun), magma shell not useful, standard is fine but again warden defiles. Minor brutality is cool though, I guess, but every other class has far superior damage passives that make them more desirable in a group.

Mag DKs in a harmony group with shackle synergy is Hard to beat. Nova, but nova is easier to avoid . Mag DK could be BIS if there’s someone to hit the synergies .

Bashev

Thogard wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DKs offense is primarily single target, making it good at dueling but not so great in group vs group stuff

Why aren’t they good in groups? If anything they’re top 3 group support. Debatably Top 1 or 2 for group support dps, magden is my choice, best group support all around.

Magdk has aoe damage, snares, roots, ultimates, group buff and while the cc is single target it’s still effective. Out of all classes magdk is probably the best class overall in this meta when you consider how well they do in 1v1 and group play. Because what other spec does both at the same level as magdk? Magplar?

DKs have some great niche group builds, like defile tank, roots, etc. The problem is that everything they can do, another class does it better. Sorc has a better root, talons range is pitiful. Wardens are better for defile builds. They do okay aoe damage, but stam warden and mag NB do way more. DB over leap for groups (although not as fun), magma shell not useful, standard is fine but again warden defiles. Minor brutality is cool though, I guess, but every other class has far superior damage passives that make them more desirable in a group.

Mag DKs in a harmony group with shackle synergy is Hard to beat. Nova, but nova is easier to avoid . Mag DK could be BIS if there’s someone to hit the synergies .

I am sorry what? DK synegy is not like the Solar Prison. It is weaker than the shalk that you can cast every 3 seconds and yuo dont need anyone to hit a synergy button.

Draxys

Bashev wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DKs offense is primarily single target, making it good at dueling but not so great in group vs group stuff

Why aren’t they good in groups? If anything they’re top 3 group support. Debatably Top 1 or 2 for group support dps, magden is my choice, best group support all around.

Magdk has aoe damage, snares, roots, ultimates, group buff and while the cc is single target it’s still effective. Out of all classes magdk is probably the best class overall in this meta when you consider how well they do in 1v1 and group play. Because what other spec does both at the same level as magdk? Magplar?

DKs have some great niche group builds, like defile tank, roots, etc. The problem is that everything they can do, another class does it better. Sorc has a better root, talons range is pitiful. Wardens are better for defile builds. They do okay aoe damage, but stam warden and mag NB do way more. DB over leap for groups (although not as fun), magma shell not useful, standard is fine but again warden defiles. Minor brutality is cool though, I guess, but every other class has far superior damage passives that make them more desirable in a group.

Mag DKs in a harmony group with shackle synergy is Hard to beat. Nova, but nova is easier to avoid . Mag DK could be BIS if there’s someone to hit the synergies .

I am sorry what? DK synegy is not like the Solar Prison. It is weaker than the shalk that you can cast every 3 seconds and yuo dont need anyone to hit a synergy button.

He’s just saying that DKs have easier access to more synergies. And in fact, I completely forgot that I was a part of the harmony zerg that Stalker came up with when it first came out. The issue is, you only have as much damage as you have synergies, which means it remains highly niche- even if it can wipe entire groups at a time. The synergy cooldown and lack of DK mobility still hurts.

psychotic13

NirnStorm wrote: »

A good magdk can outlive a group of enemy players and kill them all one by one.

You know who else can do that? A good player playing ANY class.

Magdk are the weakest class in the game in regards to both class regen and handling the bleed/obliv damage meta. Wings is the only skill that keeps them somewhat playable, and still they are way less powerful than most other classes.

I totally agree with the first part of your statement.

But magdk weakest class in regards of regen is hilarious, i can literally run 1.2k regen and never run out of resources allowing me to full spec into damage. Potions and battle roar is literally all you need to sustain.

1v1 magdk is easily at the top or close to.

MagDK is lackluster open world, but is still a force to be reckoned with if its a good player.

Zacuel

I don't like cloak or streak. But let's rip on my class and what you don't like.

RamiroCruzo

Betty_Booms wrote: »

NirnStorm wrote: »

A good magdk can outlive a group of enemy players and kill them all one by one.

You know who else can do that? A good player playing ANY class.

Magdk are the weakest class in the game in regards to both class regen and handling the bleed/obliv damage meta. Wings is the only skill that keeps them somewhat playable, and still they are way less powerful than most other classes.

Thanks for the laugh. Strongest CC in the game. Reflective scales. Health return on power whip and embers....OP cheap ultimate.....

Bahahahaha..your funny.

Hit 5/10 Leaps properly then come and comment please

Savos_Saren

Thogard wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DKs offense is primarily single target, making it good at dueling but not so great in group vs group stuff

Why aren’t they good in groups? If anything they’re top 3 group support. Debatably Top 1 or 2 for group support dps, magden is my choice, best group support all around.

Magdk has aoe damage, snares, roots, ultimates, group buff and while the cc is single target it’s still effective. Out of all classes magdk is probably the best class overall in this meta when you consider how well they do in 1v1 and group play. Because what other spec does both at the same level as magdk? Magplar?

DKs have some great niche group builds, like defile tank, roots, etc. The problem is that everything they can do, another class does it better. Sorc has a better root, talons range is pitiful. Wardens are better for defile builds. They do okay aoe damage, but stam warden and mag NB do way more. DB over leap for groups (although not as fun), magma shell not useful, standard is fine but again warden defiles. Minor brutality is cool though, I guess, but every other class has far superior damage passives that make them more desirable in a group.

Mag DKs in a harmony group with shackle synergy is Hard to beat. Nova, but nova is easier to avoid . Mag DK could be BIS if there’s someone to hit the synergies .

@Thogard

Hands down, the best player to synergize with most abilities is a MagDen Tank wearing 3pc Harmony. They get a bonus to magic damage- which is tied to most synergies (nova, talons, soul tether, even orb can hit hard). I usually run on my mDK- but I also have an Argonian MagDen that uses 3pc Harmony. Unfortunately, I can't run them at the same time!

Kidgangster101

Wing wrote: »

I actually feel unrelated to the anti DK bias that the topic of troll tanks is pretty legit these days.

they have always been an issue, but I feel like I have seen more of them lately, usually there is like at least one in a zerg but I was constantly running into 2-3 in small mans?

particularly templar and warden in this case as they were able to support others very easily while still remaining impossible to kill.

I was incredibly surprised as I have damn near 70% defile on my main and they were still able to heal through like it was nothing with 10 people just pummeling them (not ALL noobs)

im damn near considering jumping on that bandwagon myself

You do know they can stack healing done healing crit and healing received in CP system right?

You can make any class very very tanky with the CP system. Again people cry over CP and not wanting to lose your precious CP, but at the end of the day they are investigating CP system. (Pretty sure devs have even said moves have had to get major adjustments just for CP) If they change it drastically and all these nerfs to classes go through you know some of them become unplayable. Try to use healing moves in non CP then compare it to CP and let's see the huge difference.

And as far as wings getting nerfed it's all the scrubs that need it nerfed. It is not hard to see a dk flap wings and still try to ranged attack him. "Cloak doesn't need a Nerf there is counters for it between moves that are buggy and don't work or you need to waste your potion that could actually help you in combat!" Well how about this...... If you are bow/bow in pvp when you know wings are a thing and refuse to actually fight instead of spamming snipe then it is your fault. There is counters in the game for wings it's not our fault you don't use them that's on you.

(Magic NB needs some of their moves fixed so not everything is reflectable but that shouldn't mean wings should get nerfed because the devs made poor game build choices to their classes)

psychotic13

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DKs offense is primarily single target, making it good at dueling but not so great in group vs group stuff

Why aren’t they good in groups? If anything they’re top 3 group support. Debatably Top 1 or 2 for group support dps, magden is my choice, best group support all around.

Magdk has aoe damage, snares, roots, ultimates, group buff and while the cc is single target it’s still effective. Out of all classes magdk is probably the best class overall in this meta when you consider how well they do in 1v1 and group play. Because what other spec does both at the same level as magdk? Magplar?

DKs have some great niche group builds, like defile tank, roots, etc. The problem is that everything they can do, another class does it better. Sorc has a better root, talons range is pitiful. Wardens are better for defile builds. They do okay aoe damage, but stam warden and mag NB do way more. DB over leap for groups (although not as fun), magma shell not useful, standard is fine but again warden defiles. Minor brutality is cool though, I guess, but every other class has far superior damage passives that make them more desirable in a group.

Mag DKs in a harmony group with shackle synergy is Hard to beat. Nova, but nova is easier to avoid . Mag DK could be BIS if there’s someone to hit the synergies .

@Thogard

Hands down, the best player to synergize with most abilities is a MagDen Tank wearing 3pc Harmony. They get a bonus to magic damage- which is tied to most synergies (nova, talons, soul tether, even orb can hit hard). I usually run on my mDK- but I also have an Argonian MagDen that uses 3pc Harmony. Unfortunately, I can't run them at the same time!

No it isnt, you need a damage spec to use the synergy otherwise it wont deal any damage, the damage scales off of the synergizer.

Liww

it's an inherently tanky class, combined with dot heavy damage makes them strong in the current meta.

I would def not say op though, at best fossilize is simply broken. then again, wrathstone introduced getting double stuns into knockback into fossilize, subsequently not being able to break free(probably because the game thinks we are immune to cc) so i dont think it's the class in itself that's OP or broken, it just plays well into the current meta.

Kidgangster101

Liww wrote: »

it's an inherently tanky class, combined with dot heavy damage makes them strong in the current meta.

I would def not say op though, at best fossilize is simply broken. then again, wrathstone introduced getting double stuns into knockback into fossilize, subsequently not being able to break free(probably because the game thinks we are immune to cc) so i dont think it's the class in itself that's OP or broken, it just plays well into the current meta.

It's just not fossilize tho, any move that has a stun or snare or root or knockdown or fear is so broken it's silly. CC in this game is the king even of you have full stam half the time you can't break out and just watch yourself get murdered in 2 seconds because you can't fight back lol.

Datthaw

RamiroCruzo wrote: »

Betty_Booms wrote: »

NirnStorm wrote: »

A good magdk can outlive a group of enemy players and kill them all one by one.

You know who else can do that? A good player playing ANY class.

Magdk are the weakest class in the game in regards to both class regen and handling the bleed/obliv damage meta. Wings is the only skill that keeps them somewhat playable, and still they are way less powerful than most other classes.

Thanks for the laugh. Strongest CC in the game. Reflective scales. Health return on power whip and embers....OP cheap ultimate.....

Bahahahaha..your funny.

Hit 5/10 Leaps properly then come and comment please

Pfft leap is an amazing skill, if you don't land it me be stop diving into a player from 30m out. High burst aoe ultimate WITH an aoe knockback? Honestly best mag ult in game it's mag dbos.

Xvorg

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Is it nerf MagDK day?

And here we go again... time is cyclic

Iskiab

Datthaw wrote: »

RamiroCruzo wrote: »

Betty_Booms wrote: »

NirnStorm wrote: »

A good magdk can outlive a group of enemy players and kill them all one by one.

You know who else can do that? A good player playing ANY class.

Magdk are the weakest class in the game in regards to both class regen and handling the bleed/obliv damage meta. Wings is the only skill that keeps them somewhat playable, and still they are way less powerful than most other classes.

Thanks for the laugh. Strongest CC in the game. Reflective scales. Health return on power whip and embers....OP cheap ultimate.....

Bahahahaha..your funny.

Hit 5/10 Leaps properly then come and comment please

Pfft leap is an amazing skill, if you don't land it me be stop diving into a player from 30m out. High burst aoe ultimate WITH an aoe knockback? Honestly best mag ult in game it's mag dbos.

Agreed. 2nd best is Soul Siphon I think. 3rd would be negate (would be higher but it’s situational).

TrinityBreaker

Betty_Booms wrote: »

NirnStorm wrote: »

A good magdk can outlive a group of enemy players and kill them all one by one.

You know who else can do that? A good player playing ANY class.

Magdk are the weakest class in the game in regards to both class regen and handling the bleed/obliv damage meta. Wings is the only skill that keeps them somewhat playable, and still they are way less powerful than most other classes.

Thanks for the laugh. Strongest CC in the game. Reflective scales. Health return on power whip and embers....OP cheap ultimate.....

Bahahahaha..your funny.

What it incap?
What is sweeps?
What is cloak?
What is fear?

ccmedaddy

edit: nvm misunderstood someone's comment

Flame_of_Hades

Kartalin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

DKs seem to complain if they can’t tank 10 people at once without a defensive set.

Some people still remember back when DK was much stronger...
Edit: DK emp in the case of the video
.

O god, the days when emps were gods amongst men? I miss those days. Now emps are mostly just tanky bombers.

Weesacs

DK corny?? Have u seen pet sorcs in BGs??

Datthaw

Kartalin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

DKs seem to complain if they can’t tank 10 people at once without a defensive set.

Some people still remember back when DK was much stronger...
Edit: DK emp in the case of the video
.

The saddest thing about this video is look at all those players in a keep....then notice the lack of lag.... I remember those days.

JumpmanLane

Thogard wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DKs offense is primarily single target, making it good at dueling but not so great in group vs group stuff

I disagree. I’ve seen DKs struggle to get killing blows in death matches because of the execute thing, but that is only part of their contribution. Half the pvp specs I see these days are dead weight unless they have a tanky type in front of them because they’re too glass canon.

If I made a BG premade dream team I’d always have a DK. It’s like pvp healing, it can be frustrating if your team goes off and does their own thing, but if you solo queue you can’t choose your team.

You and I aren’t playing in the same matches.

There are no high MMR Stam DKs that are effective with class abilities on PC NA. Highest would be mystikal but he uses proc sets and weapon abilities, not class dmg abilities. He’d be the first to tell you that he’s limited by his class choice.

NyassaV wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DKs offense is primarily single target, making it good at dueling but not so great in group vs group stuff

I disagree. I’ve seen DKs struggle to get killing blows in death matches because of the execute thing, but that is only part of their contribution. Half the pvp specs I see these days are dead weight unless they have a tanky type in front of them because they’re too glass canon.

If I made a BG premade dream team I’d always have a DK. It’s like pvp healing, it can be frustrating if your team goes off and does their own thing, but if you solo queue you can’t choose your team.

Just because they don't get killing blows doesn't mean they aren't useful and fun to play.

They are fun to play and useful.. but compared to a stamden, Stam sorc, or stamplar they simply don’t bring as much to the table for the group. Individual survivability is not something that benefits a group.

I got a REZ for ya lol ( in Cyro).

JumpmanLane

4 projectiles 6 seconds. I think folks forget that...

BxBourne

My mag and stam dk are not corny at all especially once I mastered them and figured out a build that does everything I want my dk to do. Pet sorc builds some have as many as 4 pets very very corny and cheesy. They should remove pets from bg. Sorcs constantly streaking away and nb going invisible cause they know my leap is coming that's corny. Dk's corny?? He'll no we have to stay in there and use real skill to win or live in a fight.. dk's are veteran mode in a game everything iS challenging and all the other classes are easy and arcade mode.

OwnerOfSuccuby

If they rework wings, not a problem but only if they fly to hell with sorcs strick and immortal pets and NB's invisiability.

Or it is imbalance ! Dk have nothing - sorc and nb are overpovered.

And mist form too by the way.

ItsNebula

Betty_Booms wrote: »

NirnStorm wrote: »

A good magdk can outlive a group of enemy players and kill them all one by one.

You know who else can do that? A good player playing ANY class.

Magdk are the weakest class in the game in regards to both class regen and handling the bleed/obliv damage meta. Wings is the only skill that keeps them somewhat playable, and still they are way less powerful than most other classes.

Thanks for the laugh. Strongest CC in the game. Reflective scales. Health return on power whip and embers....OP cheap ultimate.....

Bahahahaha..your funny.

IF you can land the whip. Any player with an IQ of 10 or higher will know to dodge it.

Wings? Yeah.. it’s okay. Doesn’t do much good when you got 6 bowtards, a few mag sorcs, a few magblades.. any distant light attack spammers hitting you and wasting a reflect... pretty good huh?

CC - yeah it’s powerful. That’s one thing they have going for them.

Embers? Let’s hope the zergling or a zergling doesn’t cleanse it off.

Ult? Yeah we got a good ult. That’s another thing going for us.

Any other stupid remarks you wanna make?
Other classes have a whole lot more going for them. MagBlade is probably the worst open world right now, then MagDK would follow right behind it (imo and from what I’ve seen for myself and in videos)

ItsNebula

Alucardo wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I love to see Nightblade mains respond that DKs are OP.

“WiNgS aRe OvErPoWeReD!!!” [cloaks away]

As it was said earlier: a good player can make any build amazing. Every class (stam or mag) has some aspect about it that is annoyingly OP to a different class. It’s supposed to be the rock/paper/scissors of balance.

I don't want mdks nerfed at all, but I had to chime in as a magblade who doesn't use cloak.
How would you feel if I could reflect your light attacks, your flame lash, and your burning embers? Because DKs can reflect my light attacks, my primary spammable and my DoT.
So say whatever you want, but fighting a dk as a magblade is a lot harder than the other way around.

Every decent MMO (and successful MMO for PvP) has classes that can hard counted anther class. (Or in WoWs case specs and classes)
If you’re so worried about ONE class out of 5 (soon to be 6) classes, and you don’t wanna change classes, play a melee MagBlade. Not the best, but at least your spamable won’t be reflected.

TLDR; Every class has a build or class that counters it.

Iskiab

ItsNebula wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I love to see Nightblade mains respond that DKs are OP.

“WiNgS aRe OvErPoWeReD!!!” [cloaks away]

As it was said earlier: a good player can make any build amazing. Every class (stam or mag) has some aspect about it that is annoyingly OP to a different class. It’s supposed to be the rock/paper/scissors of balance.

I don't want mdks nerfed at all, but I had to chime in as a magblade who doesn't use cloak.
How would you feel if I could reflect your light attacks, your flame lash, and your burning embers? Because DKs can reflect my light attacks, my primary spammable and my DoT.
So say whatever you want, but fighting a dk as a magblade is a lot harder than the other way around.

Every decent MMO (and successful MMO for PvP) has classes that can hard counted anther class. (Or in WoWs case specs and classes)
If you’re so worried about ONE class out of 5 (soon to be 6) classes, and you don’t wanna change classes, play a melee MagBlade. Not the best, but at least your spamable won’t be reflected.

TLDR; Every class has a build or class that counters it.

Hum, not really. After playing for a while I’ve come to the realization classes aren’t about counters. Some classes are just better than others at certain roles. You have some match ups that favour one class vs another but that’s it.

If there was really a counter system in place what’s the counter to a magdk?

Moonsorrow

Iskiab wrote: »

If there was really a counter system in place what’s the counter to a magdk?

Magplar.

It can purge all the dots, has enough passive healing to outheal magdk "burst", has no issues ripping magdk open with dots/channels even if dk tries to go on a block type defense, has option for major defile from Dark Flare (or Revert bash if Wings up 100%). Against a good magplar with a good stam sustain to handle the Fossilize on cooldown there is not much a magdk can do. Other than running away or dying.

Troll tanks are not counted, they do not kill anything either and can be done in any class.

When on my magplar, i like when see a Wings flapper jumping towards me.


edit: also Stamblade. It is the counter to any class in a 1v1 vacuum, even to itself. lol. All true. Hope no need to explain this though.