Am I in the wrong?

Casul

So I have been in craglorn organizing nCR runs. I do a run and organize another. Someone from the first one wants to join on the 2nd. He tells me that’s he’s going to be a dps.

I then proceed to grab another 3-4 people, trying to juggle what we have as far as roles go and what we need. I look at our group and I’m seeing 2 tank 1 healer 7 dps. So I’m like ok we need 1 healer 1 dps. Well we get in the dungeon and after first boss he gets kicked (I had given crown away and didn’t have my mic so had no clue why), apparently his role had been set to tank and I didn’t check the name I just assumed.

So we essentially had 1 tank 2 healers and 9 dps.

So I got a message asking why I kicked and when I told him what the group told me he said it’s BS cause he told me was going to be running dps. And I’m just like “I’m sorry dude but I go by the symbols. It’s hard to organize these runs by names alone and I can’t go back looking through messages to make sure”

Anyways he wasn’t pleased with that response.

I guess the question is am I in the wrong for not remembering what he said or is he in the wrong for not changing his role icon??

Tasear

It's a judgement call as leader. There's no wrong or right. You had to make a decision.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Had this happen before, on the kicked side, I joined as a healer but forgot to change my symbol from tank, as I also tank on that toon. A simple question before a kick would have been nice. Also does cloud rest really need 2 tanks? I have ran that one tons and most of the time we run one tank.

Casul

Tasear wrote: »

It's a judgement call as leader. There's no wrong or right. You had to make a decision.

Well I didn’t kick him, more so I just stood by the decision. But if I had been leader I feel I would have tried to accommodate as best I could but there’s no way we could have done +2 with only 1 tank.

I mean I feel bad cause he did wait for a while but at the same time it’s hard organizing these runs when only 1-2 people are finding people. And we can’t go ask everyone 1 by 1 what role they are.

Casul

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Had this happen before, on the kicked side, I joined as a healer but forgot to change my symbol from tank, as I also tank on that toon. A simple question before a kick would have been nice. Also does cloud rest really need 2 tanks? I have ran that one tons and most of the time we run one tank.

We had good dps but I’m not sure we could have done it without an off tank. We had some rough moments during it with the off tank so without I am skeptical.

And I would have said something but unfortunately I didn’t have my mic on and didn’t have crown so was missing the control a bit.

ArchMikem

BuildMan wrote: »

I guess the question is am I in the wrong for not remembering what he said or is he in the wrong for not changing his role icon??

That. If you want to do group content you need to have the role you intend to play selected.

Digiman

Tasear wrote: »

It's a judgement call as leader. There's no wrong or right. You had to make a decision.

actually more decisions are black and white as a leader then are gray... the OP made the right choice though.

He went by the data infront of him. Presidents don't even do that.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

ArchMikem wrote: »

show previous quotes

BuildMan wrote: »

I guess the question is am I in the wrong for not remembering what he said or is he in the wrong for not changing his role icon??

That. If you want to do group content you need to have the role you intend to play selected.

Mistakes can be made though and there is no harm in asking before a kick.

Neoealth

A good leader gathers info first before taking action (unless it's urgent and you have no time to think, which i don't think it was in your case) You should of just asked him op.

anitajoneb17_ESO

It happens to me all the time (forgetting to set the correct symbol in the group window).
I understand though that PUG trial leaders can't double check on everyone.
I'd call it an accident - though asking before kicking would have been kind of nice.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

wait...u need more than 1 tank in ncr0? O_O

Knootewoot

Why instead of instakick, whisper the guy and explain him why he is about to be kicked

I hate instakickers who leave you in the dark why they kicked. Guy can't even defend himself.

I blame all new mmo's for this. It's all about fast fast go go, next dungeon goooooo.

I miss the social aspects of old.

dtsharples

You shouldn't have to ask if a person has set their role correctly.
You look at the info you have - the Icons depicting roles - and judge accordingly.
You can't be expected to remember the name + role of every PUG member you pick up along the way.
In a PUG you are already putting your faith in a lot of other people. Faith that they know the content, faith that they can fulfil their role properly and faith that they have selected their role correctly.
You (or rather the group lead) did the right thing. Maybe now the person who got kicked will remember to select their role properly before joining groups - or maybe they'll continue blaming others for their own mistakes, who knows

Strider__Roshin

It's not that difficult to keep a mental check list of who's doing what. This just makes your leader to appear to be unintelligent honestly. It's whatever though life goes on.

idk

It is unfortunate but things happen. Messages get messed up.

The bigger issue is Zos forces people to relinquish the crown so someone else can invite a player to group. Zos has always been behind the ball with their grouping tools. Sometimes to the extent of being embarrassingly pathetic which is a sign of poor management like this game has suffered from since before the game launched. We still have the same poor management which is why things are as they are.

Relevant to this discussion, we should be able make players assistant leads instead of giving up the crown.

You should be commended for putting together groups. Regardless of going to Zone chat or from guild, those that form and lead groups are the cornerstone of a MMORPG.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

While I think it was the player's fault for not changing their role we all make mistakes. With the number of fake tanks that pop up I don't think the group did anything out of line either. The only thing I think you could have done differently is not passing off the crown. Since you organized the group I think it would have been better if you had continued to run the group. By doing so you would have the potential to mitigate things like this.

Elsonso

BuildMan wrote: »

I guess the question is am I in the wrong for not remembering what he said or is he in the wrong for not changing his role icon??

You are in the wrong for more than one reason, as I see it. You were apparently not in effective communication with the group and group leader. You were organizing the trial group, knew you had a role change participant, and did not check to make sure they changed roles so the count would be correct. Yes, you should have remembered that they changed roles.

Other mistakes happened, yes, but those are the ones you have control over.

eliisra

Everyone knows that PUG trials can be that way, like anonymous, no communication, messy with people being invited, re-invited and kicked left and right.

Sometimes they forget to invite someone and people get mad over that. Sometimes people get kicked b/c misunderstandings. It's normal and *** happens stuff.

Yes you made a mistake by not remembering him saying he was dps and the guy got kicked in a crappy manner. But it's also hard to remember everything when trying to fill roles for trials, since majority of people already invited tends to not help at all lol. Just forget about it. Pretty sure the guy that got kicked already did.

Casul

Alright so after reading all the posts I’ll go ahead and give my thoughts.

To begin let me say that I definitely feel like some of the blame falls on me. I should have ensured crown made its way back to me, regardless of if I had mic on, it was my group and this the decision should have fallen on me.

The other half I believe was just an honest mistake. I should have remembered his role but at the same time it can get difficult when you are whispering multiple people and you have the chat log filling up quick.

I guess if anything I will use this experience as a learning opportunity on how to organize and lead groups better. Thanks for the opinions everyone.

therift

OP s blameless.

Before responding to a PuG invitation, you should at minimum:

1) Have your role set correctly
2) Be logged in to the character you intend to run
3) Have previously emptied your inventory of unneeded items
4) Have stocked up on the consumables you need
5) Have repaired your gear, charged your weapons, and dropped from other group.

Get yourself ready, then respond to calls to join a PuG.

I have little sympathy for the joker who claimed to be a DD yet set his role to Tank. L2P.

sevomd69

Frankly...I look at it as karma since he probably queued up as a fake tank in DF previously....

Androconium

Its you. Never lead. They will always rebel.

Reverb

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

wait...u need more than 1 tank in ncr0? O_O

He said they were doing +2

Edit - not in the first post but in one of his follow-up comments.

redspecter23

He made the mistake by having the wrong role selected and if he has a problem with that, he can organize and fill the runs in the future.

driosketch

Looks like poor organization. You don't need to remember 11 names, but you do need most of all to know who your healers and tanks are. And if there is voice chat running, you should try to be at least listening.

I know on PC, unless you run into special character issues, or someone gives you the wrong spelling, you can add people without passing crown. (Don't know about console.) But if you do pass crown, you need crown back right after. No one should be kicking players without your say in a group you organize.

If the player is at fault for not managing their role, you would be equally at fault for not managing crown. Either you are in the wrong, or you are both in the wrong. I don't see a way, with the situation as you describe, that only the other player is wrong.

therift

redspecter23 wrote: »

He made the mistake by having the wrong role selected and if he has a problem with that, he can organize and fill the runs in the future.

Exactly.

Cryptical

idk wrote: »

It is unfortunate but things happen. Messages get messed up.

The bigger issue is Zos forces people to relinquish the crown so someone else can invite a player to group. Zos has always been behind the ball with their grouping tools. Sometimes to the extent of being embarrassingly pathetic which is a sign of poor management like this game has suffered from since before the game launched. We still have the same poor management which is why things are as they are.

Relevant to this discussion, we should be able make players assistant leads instead of giving up the crown.

You should be commended for putting together groups. Regardless of going to Zone chat or from guild, those that form and lead groups are the cornerstone of a MMORPG.

A pop up appears on your screen:
“Group member wants to invite Name / Level / Role. Allow them to join?
Yes / No”

However, the group finder is already straining under the pressure of coordinating between a person being evicted from a dungeon and a replacement being allowed to enter.

So maybe such advanced capabilities as we envision should be quietly packed in a box and put on a shelf marked “dreams to be forgotten”.

Casul

driosketch wrote: »

Looks like poor organization. You don't need to remember 11 names, but you do need most of all to know who your healers and tanks are. And if there is voice chat running, you should try to be at least listening.

I know on PC, unless you run into special character issues, or someone gives you the wrong spelling, you can add people without passing crown. (Don't know about console.) But if you do pass crown, you need crown back right after. No one should be kicking players without your say in a group you organize.

If the player is at fault for not managing their role, you would be equally at fault for not managing crown. Either you are in the wrong, or you are both in the wrong. I don't see a way, with the situation as you describe, that only the other player is wrong.

I definitely agree with a good portion of what you said. From now on crown is in my control. If someone needs it then it goes from me to them and then to me. Also I do agree with knowing my tanks and healers, that was foolish of me and I agree with my fault on that part.

And I definitely agree that the blame is not solely on them, I guess I was just looking for opinions. Because I started organizing runs a day or 2 ago.

Gilvoth

kicking people from group needs to be removed from the game.
if you dont like the group or anyone in it then leave and make a new group.
stop insulting people by KICK its Rude.

driosketch

BuildMan wrote: »

And I definitely agree that the blame is not solely on them, I guess I was just looking for opinions. Because I started organizing runs a day or 2 ago.

If that's the case, we can cut you some slack. Leading takes experience after all. And it can also take a lot of energy to do often.

Casul

driosketch wrote: »

show previous quotes

BuildMan wrote: »

And I definitely agree that the blame is not solely on them, I guess I was just looking for opinions. Because I started organizing runs a day or 2 ago.

If that's the case, we can cut you some slack. Leading takes experience after all. And it can take also take a lot of energy to do often.

Definitely takes its toll, had a group fall apart after a wipe on +2. Couldn’t get people to stay which sucked. Live and learn I suppose.