Why not an vampire lord FORM that you takes sunshine damage

barney2525

IMHO, I think you have it backward.

I played for a number of years in a live action role play game based on Vampires. The Average vampire is affected fully by sunlight damage - which I want to point out has Nothing to do with Heat. The more powerful vampires, especially what you would consider a Vampire Lord, develop disciplines that mitigate sunlight damage. They are never able to just walk around in sunlight, but they can survive for a long period of time where the average vampire would be destroyed.

Becoming powerful should Not make you weaker.

L0rdV1ct0r

starkerealm wrote: »

Again, this is all incorrect. Skyrim received a DLC focusing on vampirism because the team at Bethesda chose to develop a DLC focused on Vampirism. They did not look at it and say, "well, this is boring, let's spice it up." In fact, Dawnguard nerfs several aspects of Vampirism from "vanilla" Skyrim.

No, doesn't nerf. In fact, buffs. For example, weakness for fire is reduced on stage 4 from 100% to 50%. And the hatred is removed. Not mention, there are no vampire quests/clans that the player can enter in the game. To mention another game

+20 to every attribute except Intelligence
+30 to Climbing, Critical Strike, Hand-to-Hand, Jumping, Running, and Stealth
Levitation, Calm Humanoid, and Charm Mortal spells
Immunities to paralysis, disease, and weapons made from iron and steel.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Vampirism

And there are 9 clans to join. Each one with unique abilities. With this perks, you can massacre an entire city and most guards will not have an weapon capable of defeating you. On Morrowind, you have only 50% resist normal weapons. But an vampire with Marara's Ring can reach 90% normal weapon resistance. And with Marara's Ring + Necromancer's Amulet can become immune to normal weapons. Just like some high level daedra. Not mentioning, to be able to get artifacts such as Eltonbrand, Spell Breaker and the Darksun Shield, you need to play as a vampire

Dawnguard made vampires great again and ESO needs to make vampires great again..

starkerealm wrote: »

Every time you say this, it's like, "hey, they should add blood potions!" and I'm sitting here going, "I can literally craft those, right now, in ESO. It costs me a Daedra Heart per 4, and some provisioning mats I really don't care about, and that's about as expensive as it gets." And then you, "but, they should add them!" It's already in the game.

Do this potions reduce your vampirism stage?

starkerealm wrote: »

I don't think you fully understand this. It's entirely possible to enter a fight in Stage 1, and hit Stage 3 or 4 before the fight is over if you're using your Vampire active abilities with any regularity. In fact I've had runs of vAS where I went from Stage 2 to 4 in a single encounter.

And the potions that i've suggested exist by a reason. Lower your vampirism stage. But be able to use vampiric abilities without any consequence is just silly.

starkerealm wrote: »

Yeah, I'd recommend you play some group content, before you start going out there and saying, "yeah, I know how it is." It's not like it's a deal breaker, but it's becoming more apparent over time, that you really haven't experienced what this game has to offer, and as a result, don't really have a complete picture of how the game is designed and balanced.

Same with you. Play previous games as an vampire an see how lackluster vampirism is in ESO. ESO evolved a lot in many aspects. At first, i hated ESO, now i like. There are a lot of cool stuff to do.

If you need to lower your vampire stage to fight in sunlight, is a price to pay to get more power. Don't like? Get a cure.

I agree that some things that exists previous games should't exist in a MMO. Like Morrowind alchemy, enchanting and spellmaking. But an sun damage that can easily be avoided with certain items, what is the problem?? I an not suggesting this for eg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whz-LQlbI-U

Morgha_Kul

I've only recently gained the Vampirism line, but I've often thought the "curses" of Vampirism and Lycanthropy are both very badly represented. Now a vampire (and before that a werewolf), I found that I did not notice any real difference in my gameplay. Indeed, more for my own amusement than anything, I have even been working up some new skill lines and effects to better represent these so-called curses.

Both should be very powerful, but that power should have a great cost.

Vampires should be greatly affected by sunlight. They should have great power, but only at night, and should suffer great disadvantages during the day. More, they are supposed to be FEARSOME to normal folks, so they should be restricted only to Outlaw refuges for most services.

Werewolves should have great difficulty controlling themselves. They should suffer from a kind of bloodlust, and be at risk of attacking anyone nearby when injured or at night. They should also find themselves stuck in werewolf form during the full moon. When in this form, they should be unable to interact with ANY kind of services. No merchant or outlaw is going to trade with a werewolf.

In addition, there should be CLANS for vampires (eg. Berne, Aundae, Quarra, etc.) and packs for werewolves. They would have essentially the same skills but there might be one or two abilities that are different, depending on the particular focus of the clan or pack. (Actually, I'd do this for some of the other factions in the world, like the Dunmer Houses, the Breton Knighthoods and so forth).

Once I've worked them up to my satisfaction, I'll post them for everyone's amusement (and perhaps even to inspire the devs).

Browiseth

eso is a very different game to your single player elder scrolls, you can't just graft something that might work in a controlled solo experience onto a completely different type of game

it's never going to happen. vampires will never remotely function how they do in the other elder scrolls games. for me, that means i can take some solace that inappropriate ideas such as op's will never be taken seriously

Reistr_the_Unbroken

At this point I’d be happy with a vampire polymorph

ZaroktheImmortal

On the subject of vampires and sun damage I think in there were previous games where you could avoid damage but I think it was based on feeding and vampire stage in an MMO sunlight damage would be more of a pain than anything and I know I wouldn't even bother playing as one if they did that. In a single player game it's more manageable.

starkerealm

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Again, this is all incorrect. Skyrim received a DLC focusing on vampirism because the team at Bethesda chose to develop a DLC focused on Vampirism. They did not look at it and say, "well, this is boring, let's spice it up." In fact, Dawnguard nerfs several aspects of Vampirism from "vanilla" Skyrim.

No, doesn't nerf. In fact, buffs. For example, weakness for fire is reduced on stage 4 from 100% to 50%. And the hatred is removed.

If the goal is to have an interesting to play system, of costs and benefits, it is at the detriment of player experience. It loses most of the penalties that made them interesting and distinct play experience.

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

Not mention, there are no vampire quests/clans that the player can enter in the game. To mention another game

+20 to every attribute except Intelligence
+30 to Climbing, Critical Strike, Hand-to-Hand, Jumping, Running, and Stealth
Levitation, Calm Humanoid, and Charm Mortal spells
Immunities to paralysis, disease, and weapons made from iron and steel.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Vampirism

And there are 9 clans to join. Each one with unique abilities. With this perks, you can massacre an entire city and most guards will not have an weapon capable of defeating you. On Morrowind, you have only resist normal weapons. But an vampire with Marara's Ring can reach 90% normal weapon resistance. And with Marara's Ring + Necromancer's Amulet can become immune to normal weapons. Not mentioning, to be able to get artifacts such as Eltonbrand, Spell Breaker and the Darksun Shield, you need to play as a vampire

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

Dawnguard made vampires great again and ESO needs to make vampires great again..

Again, that stupid ****ing phrase.

First, it assumes that vampires in Daggerfall, Arena, or Oblivion were great, and that the ones in Skyrim were a downgrade.

There's actually a pattern here. The vampires in Daggerfall were almost playable (though, the same can basically be said of Daggerfall in general.) The ones in Morrowind were not, (vampires really are fundamentally unplayable in TES3. They were a neat side diversion, but you could not play through the game as one.) Since then, there's been a steady progression of turning vampirism into a viable option for players instead of it being a side option that broke the game. Trying to regress to a point where vampires were not viable may appease the Redcaps living in your garden, but it won't improve the game at all.

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Every time you say this, it's like, "hey, they should add blood potions!" and I'm sitting here going, "I can literally craft those, right now, in ESO. It costs me a Daedra Heart per 4, and some provisioning mats I really don't care about, and that's about as expensive as it gets." And then you, "but, they should add them!" It's already in the game.

Do this potions reduce your vampirism stage?

starkerealm wrote: »

We're just ignoring that there's already a drink, in game, which reduces your current stage? Yes? No? Okay, whatever, moving on.

That was, actually, more work than it was probably worth, to dig up the quote, instead of just copy pasting, but, what's done is done.

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I don't think you fully understand this. It's entirely possible to enter a fight in Stage 1, and hit Stage 3 or 4 before the fight is over if you're using your Vampire active abilities with any regularity. In fact I've had runs of vAS where I went from Stage 2 to 4 in a single encounter.

And the potions that i've suggested exist by a reason. Lower your vampirism stage. But be able to use vampiric abilities without any consequence is just silly.

In point of fact, there are, already, consequences. Part of the reason vampire abilities do push you into higher stages is so you don't have to sit around and wait 6 hours in real time, for your vampirism stage to advance, so you can activate the passives you want.

Decisions were made based on the fact that, unlike in Skyrim or Oblivion, you cannot advance time by waiting, except by actually getting up, walking away from your keyboard, and making lunch. This was less pronounced at launch, when Stage 1 to 4 took two hours, but currently, letting those progress naturally, requires 18 hours, real time.

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Yeah, I'd recommend you play some group content, before you start going out there and saying, "yeah, I know how it is." It's not like it's a deal breaker, but it's becoming more apparent over time, that you really haven't experienced what this game has to offer, and as a result, don't really have a complete picture of how the game is designed and balanced.

Same with you. Play previous games as an vampire an see how lackluster vampirism is in ESO. ESO evolved a lot in many aspects. At first, i hated ESO, now i like. There are a lot of cool stuff to do.

Yeah, TES3 where you cannot interact with the vast majority of NPCs when you're a vampire, locking out most quests, including the main storyline. You're left, basically, to wander around, until you get bored, cure yourself, and get back on with your life.

And let's not forget that in Daggerfall, Vampirism removed you from your guilds, and reset your reputations.

In comparison, Oblivion is downright playable. Except for the part where you don't really get any significant buffs for being a well fed vampire. You're choosing to turn it on and off.

But, all of this is irrelevant. Because, we're not talking about Daggerfall. We're talking about The Elder Scrolls Online. And, in your case, you're trying decisions about a game you do not fully understand.

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

If you need to lower your vampire stage to fight in sunlight, is a price to pay to get more power. Don't like? Get a cure.

I agree that some things that exists previous games should't exist in a MMO. Like Morrowind alchemy, enchanting and spellmaking. But an sun damage that can easily be avoided with certain items, what is the problem??

It becomes a problem when you're "improving" things by breaking existing content.

So, as I said, you should get into the endgame content, before blithely telling anyone who says, "wait a second, this won't work," by saying:

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

Go in a dungeon...

Which won't work, because ~60% of the dungeons in the game include exterior zones.

At that point, you've returned to the days of Morrowind and Daggerfall.

"We've added Vampires, and you can become one."
"Is it playable?"
"Well, you can become a vampire, and do vampire stuff."
"But, is it actually playable?"

Yeah... that was not great.

Also, not sure if you knew this or not, but you can't feed on people in Morrowind. It's not an option. You, ironically, can do more as a vampire in Oblivion and Skyrim (even without Dawnguard installed.)

starkerealm

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

On the subject of vampires and sun damage I think in there were previous games where you could avoid damage but I think it was based on feeding and vampire stage in an MMO sunlight damage would be more of a pain than anything and I know I wouldn't even bother playing as one if they did that. In a single player game it's more manageable.

I mean, in a single player game, you can choose to play at night. In ESO, that's not possible. The time is whatever the time is.

I have seen MMOs that did give the player limited control over the day night cycle, usually by giving them entirely separate versions of a zone during the day, and at night. But, that's a kludgy solution, and wouldn't fit that well with ESO's design.

starkerealm

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

Now a vampire (and before that a werewolf), I found that I did not notice any real difference in my gameplay. Indeed, more for my own amusement than anything, I have even been working up some new skill lines and effects to better represent these so-called curses.

Both should be very powerful, but that power should have a great cost.

The Werewolf thing is kinda on you. If you don't use it, you're just a werewolf in name only. Slot the ultimate, use it, and it is a very different playstyle.

Because ESO's an MMO, so gaining, and losing, these statuses have long term consequences, it wouldn't be fair to the player to lock them in. Particularly given that at any given patch, you could be forced to abandon one, if it was significantly altered.

So, that said, Werewolf is a really cool playstyle, if you engage with it. It's a very expensive ultimate, with some serious limitations. If you just pick up the skill line, use it once or twice, and don't pay attention to it, or use it often, it's kinda lackluster, but if you put the time into it to learn what you're doing, it's unique.

ZaroktheImmortal

Oh yeah part about the morrowind ones. All you could do in that as a vampire were some quest line for whatever vampire clan you were turned from and if I remember right anyone else would attack you and you couldn't do any other quests aside from the vampire clan ones. There were mods to fix this but as the game was as it came being a vampire was pretty pointless.

starkerealm

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Oh yeah part about the morrowind ones. All you could do in that as a vampire were some quest line for whatever vampire clan you were turned from and if I remember right anyone else would attack you and you couldn't do any other quests aside from the vampire clan ones. There were mods to fix this but as the game was as it came being a vampire was pretty pointless.

Technically, that wasn't a bug. It was the product of the systems combining together. Whether that was intentional or not is a little more debatable, but based on dialog in the game, I'm inclined to believe that this was semi-intentional. That said, it was also unplayable, so no shame directed at the modders who worked around it.

Morgha_Kul

starkerealm wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

Now a vampire (and before that a werewolf), I found that I did not notice any real difference in my gameplay. Indeed, more for my own amusement than anything, I have even been working up some new skill lines and effects to better represent these so-called curses.

Both should be very powerful, but that power should have a great cost.

The Werewolf thing is kinda on you. If you don't use it, you're just a werewolf in name only. Slot the ultimate, use it, and it is a very different playstyle.

Because ESO's an MMO, so gaining, and losing, these statuses have long term consequences, it wouldn't be fair to the player to lock them in. Particularly given that at any given patch, you could be forced to abandon one, if it was significantly altered.

So, that said, Werewolf is a really cool playstyle, if you engage with it. It's a very expensive ultimate, with some serious limitations. If you just pick up the skill line, use it once or twice, and don't pay attention to it, or use it often, it's kinda lackluster, but if you put the time into it to learn what you're doing, it's unique.

My point was that it might as well not even be there, for all that it affected me to be so "cursed." For these things to be considered curses, there needs to be some kind of undesirable consequence to being in that state. A werewolf should not be in full control of the beast within. There needs to be some risk that it will go out of control, and potentially put you in harm's way (perhaps from guards, when you go berserk devouring innocents, or what have you). The same is true of Vampirism. My face looks different, and I have a new power to drain life from foes... but that's about it.

ZaroktheImmortal

starkerealm wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Oh yeah part about the morrowind ones. All you could do in that as a vampire were some quest line for whatever vampire clan you were turned from and if I remember right anyone else would attack you and you couldn't do any other quests aside from the vampire clan ones. There were mods to fix this but as the game was as it came being a vampire was pretty pointless.

Technically, that wasn't a bug. It was the product of the systems combining together. Whether that was intentional or not is a little more debatable, but based on dialog in the game, I'm inclined to believe that this was semi-intentional. That said, it was also unplayable, so no shame directed at the modders who worked around it.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was intentional. A very bad decision on their part in my opinion. It gave us vampires with no real point in being one unless you decide to use mods to change the way they implemented vampires In the game.

L0rdV1ct0r

starkerealm wrote: »

If the goal is to have an interesting to play system, of costs and benefits, it is at the detriment of player experience. It loses most of the penalties that made them interesting and distinct play experience.

And vampirism impacting in almost nothing is an interesting and discinct play experience? See @Morgha_Kul awnser. He noticied almost no difference between the two curses. Become an undead or an feral beast has a lot of consequences in any fantasy literature, movie and game that i've played, except eso.

starkerealm wrote: »

[
here. The vampires in Daggerfall were almost playable (though, the same can basically be said of Daggerfall in general.) The ones in Morrowind were not

They are not playable not because the sun damage or massive weakness to fire. Is just that Morrowind lacks the skill to "disguises" or dominate. Vampire Embrace mod fixed it.

Also, i an not suggesting morrowind vampirism. I know that it will not work in a mmo. My suggestion is an hybrid between Oblivion and Skyrim vampirism.

starkerealm wrote: »

[
In point of fact, there are, already, consequences. P

There are little to no consequences. If you wanna use a lot of vampire abilities, it should increase your bloodlust and it should have drawbacks

starkerealm wrote: »

It becomes a problem when you're "improving" things by breaking existing content.

Yes, people using an potion to reduce his vampirism when they are exposed to sun is game breaking /sarcasm

starkerealm wrote: »

Also, not sure if you knew this or not, but you can't feed on people in Morrowind. It's not an option. You, ironically, can do more as a vampire in Oblivion and Skyrim (even without Dawnguard installed.)

Feed as an animation is not exactly implemented on earlier games, but you get drain health spell that "simulates" feeding

"The simplest way to survive as a vampire is to complete clan quests and feed on cattle." https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Vampires

VaranisArano

What's the point of being a vampire lord if you can use the form for at most 2 hours out of every 6?

Yeah, this "Its one skill! You can still play your character without it!" argument falls flat for me.

If I'm going to be a Vampire Lord, thats more powerful at night and significantly debuffed during the day, its going to be extremely annoying to have zero control over what time of day it is with no guarantee that I'll be able to play as a Vampire lord when I log on.

As I said before;

*Logs on wanting to play Vampire Lord*

"Ugh, its morning. Guess I'm stuck playing my regular old character."

Seriously, whats the point of being a Vampire Lord if you can only use it for a portion of the time you play and you have zero control over how much time you have that's nighttime? How does that even sound like fun?

starkerealm

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

If the goal is to have an interesting to play system, of costs and benefits, it is at the detriment of player experience. It loses most of the penalties that made them interesting and distinct play experience.

And vampirism impacting in almost nothing is an interesting and discinct play experience? See @Morgha_Kul awnser. He noticied almost no difference between the two curses. Become an undead or an feral beast has a lot of consequences in any fantasy literature, movie and game that i've played, except eso.

Vampirism directly impacts Stam DPS, Mag DPS, Healers, and Tanks. Also affects PvP in a number of crunchy, and splattery ways. So, yeah, "it does stuff."

It's a serious decision that a lot of players do kinda glaze over, because they don't understand the full implications.

Now, here's the bone I'll throw you: I seriously hope that both the Vampire and Werewolf skill lines are flagged as justice violations when the Necromancers go live. That's something which has been missing from the game since the justice system was first added.

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

[
here. The vampires in Daggerfall were almost playable (though, the same can basically be said of Daggerfall in general.) The ones in Morrowind were not

They are not playable not because the sun damage or massive weakness to fire. Is just that Morrowind lacks the skill to "disguises" or dominate. Vampire Embrace mod fixed it.

Also, i an not suggesting morrowind vampirism. I know that it will not work in a mmo. My suggestion is an hybrid between Oblivion and Skyrim vampirism.

Citing mods as your justification for, "oh, but the modders fixed it," isn't valid. Especially since, as has been discussed in this thread, it's highly likely that the systemic behavior regarding vampires in TES3 was intentional.

In point of fact, there were ways around this in TES3, involving abuse of the alchemy or spellcrafting systems.

However, citing mods as a fix is fine in a single player game, because it allows you to tailor your experience to your own tastes. And that's cool. That's what mods do. However, in a multiplayer space, all players need to follow the same rules (roughly speaking.)

This is also, by the way, why you won't find any difficulty settings in ESO (outside of normal/veteran for dungeons/trials/arenas.) Everyone needs to approach the content on roughly even footing.

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

In point of fact, there are, already, consequences. P

There are little to no consequences. If you wanna use a lot of vampire abilities, it should increase your bloodlust and it should have drawbacks

starkerealm wrote: »

It becomes a problem when you're "improving" things by breaking existing content.

Yes, people using an potion to reduce his vampirism when they are exposed to sun is game breaking /sarcasm

Not what I'm talking about at all. In order for it to be a valid option, you cannot lock players out of content based on a character decision that is time consuming to reverse.

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Also, not sure if you knew this or not, but you can't feed on people in Morrowind. It's not an option. You, ironically, can do more as a vampire in Oblivion and Skyrim (even without Dawnguard installed.)

Feed as an animation is not exactly implemented on earlier games, but you get drain health spell that "simulates" feeding

"The simplest way to survive as a vampire is to complete clan quests and feed on cattle." https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Vampires

No, Morrowind did not have feeding. You had an absorb health spell, because you could not heal naturally (or use potions), but the entire concept of feeding wasn't added until Oblivion.

It's a different system.

starkerealm

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

Now a vampire (and before that a werewolf), I found that I did not notice any real difference in my gameplay. Indeed, more for my own amusement than anything, I have even been working up some new skill lines and effects to better represent these so-called curses.

Both should be very powerful, but that power should have a great cost.

The Werewolf thing is kinda on you. If you don't use it, you're just a werewolf in name only. Slot the ultimate, use it, and it is a very different playstyle.

Because ESO's an MMO, so gaining, and losing, these statuses have long term consequences, it wouldn't be fair to the player to lock them in. Particularly given that at any given patch, you could be forced to abandon one, if it was significantly altered.

So, that said, Werewolf is a really cool playstyle, if you engage with it. It's a very expensive ultimate, with some serious limitations. If you just pick up the skill line, use it once or twice, and don't pay attention to it, or use it often, it's kinda lackluster, but if you put the time into it to learn what you're doing, it's unique.

My point was that it might as well not even be there, for all that it affected me to be so "cursed." For these things to be considered curses, there needs to be some kind of undesirable consequence to being in that state. A werewolf should not be in full control of the beast within. There needs to be some risk that it will go out of control, and potentially put you in harm's way (perhaps from guards, when you go berserk devouring innocents, or what have you). The same is true of Vampirism. My face looks different, and I have a new power to drain life from foes... but that's about it.

The problem is, in an MMO, you need to balance these systems against a player who cannot pause the game, or restore an old save point. How much would it suck if Werewolves randomly lost control of their urges, and also had a perminent kill on sight bounty system. Then, you had to get up because your kid just injured themselves, and while you were away, your werewolf lost control of their transform, and incurred a permanent bounty, irrevocably losing access to NPC services?

Made worse if you added a permadeath element, which some MMOs tried. "Sorry, Morgha_Kul Jr, I see you're bleeding, but I've got to log out first?" Yeak. No.

Neoealth

Do you have any idea how annoying it would be to play eso and have the daylight always burning you?

They would have to balance it out with probably op powers to even make people want to be a vampire. Would be great for rp purposes but terrible for practical game play in an mmo.

L0rdV1ct0r

Neoealth wrote: »

Do you have any idea how annoying it would be to play eso and have the daylight always burning you?

They would have to balance it out with probably op powers to even make people want to be a vampire. Would be great for rp purposes but terrible for practical game play in an mmo.

Do you have any idea how annoying it wold be to post an topic and everyone don't read and assumes that i an advocating for 24/7 sun light burn?

Sun damage only in certain circulations. Already explained in what situations many times.

VaranisArano wrote: »

What's the point of being a vampire lord if you can use the form for at most 2 hours out of every 6?
(...)
*Logs on wanting to play Vampire Lord

Look to ultimates. You can use then in a minority of the time. I can use the same argument "what is the point of be able to summon an storm atronach if you can only maintain storm atronach for an fraction of time"?

You can assume the form. You will just take sun damage. Taking 800 damage per sec means that if you use dark exchange, you can maintain yourself as a vampire lord for a relative long time.

starkerealm wrote: »

Vampirism directly impacts Stam DPS, Mag DPS, Healers, and Tanks. Also affects PvP in a number of crunchy, and splattery ways. So, yeah, "it does stuff.
[

Like... Anything Vampire should be an unique skill line, not just one more.

starkerealm wrote: »

I seriously hope that both the Vampire and Werewolf skill lines are flagged as justice violations when the Necromancers go live. That's something which has been missing from the game since the justice system was first added.
[

I agree

starkerealm wrote: »

In point of fact, there were ways around this in TES3, involving abuse of the alchemy or spellcrafting systems.
[

You are not abusing(unless using an exploit) bu creating spells that are effective.

I only mentioned mod to show that the problem with vanilla TES 3 is not sun damage. Is being hated. And you agreed that Oblivion/Skyrim system will not prevent any access to content.The system that i an suggesting pick traits from skyrim and traits from oblivion.

starkerealm wrote: »

balance these systems against a player who cannot pause the game, or restore an old save point. How much would it suck if Werewolves randomly lost control of their urges, and also had a perminent kill on sight bounty system.
[

On Some SP games the same happens. I lost 50k souls on Dark Souls 2 - Iron Keep. If you kill logan on DkS 1 as a sorc, too bad. Lost an guy that sells amazing spells. About losing control, should be when damaged. Not completely random. Don't wanna that risk? Don't play as werewolf.

starkerealm

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Do you have any idea how annoying it would be to play eso and have the daylight always burning you?

They would have to balance it out with probably op powers to even make people want to be a vampire. Would be great for rp purposes but terrible for practical game play in an mmo.

Do you have any idea how annoying it wold be to post an topic and everyone don't read and assumes that i an advocating for 24/7 sun light burn?

Sun damage only in certain circulations. Already explained in what situations many times.

But, do you know how annoying it would be to have to always check to see what time it is in game, before logging in, so your vampire didn't fry to a crisp.

It's almost like those certain circumstances only include virtually all vampires in game.

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

On Some SP games the same happens. I lost 50k souls on Dark Souls 2 - Iron Keep. If you kill logan on DkS 1 as a sorc, too bad. Lost an guy that sells amazing spells. About losing control, should be when damaged. Not completely random. Don't wanna that risk? Don't play as werewolf.

So, fun thing about Dark Souls as a franchise. Nothing is truly lost forever. Killed an NPC? They'll be back in the next NG+ cycle. Lost souls? You can always earn more. 50k is a bit much for Iron Keep, but eventually that won't even cover a level up. If it's vanilla Dark Souls 2, you could always use and repair Rings of Sacrifice to avoid losing your bloodstain. If it's Scholar of the First Sin, you could always just farm those souls back up.

I mean, they'll always be in your Soul Memory, so that's still a horrible idea, but still.

Morgha_Kul

starkerealm wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

Now a vampire (and before that a werewolf), I found that I did not notice any real difference in my gameplay. Indeed, more for my own amusement than anything, I have even been working up some new skill lines and effects to better represent these so-called curses.

Both should be very powerful, but that power should have a great cost.

The Werewolf thing is kinda on you. If you don't use it, you're just a werewolf in name only. Slot the ultimate, use it, and it is a very different playstyle.

Because ESO's an MMO, so gaining, and losing, these statuses have long term consequences, it wouldn't be fair to the player to lock them in. Particularly given that at any given patch, you could be forced to abandon one, if it was significantly altered.

So, that said, Werewolf is a really cool playstyle, if you engage with it. It's a very expensive ultimate, with some serious limitations. If you just pick up the skill line, use it once or twice, and don't pay attention to it, or use it often, it's kinda lackluster, but if you put the time into it to learn what you're doing, it's unique.

My point was that it might as well not even be there, for all that it affected me to be so "cursed." For these things to be considered curses, there needs to be some kind of undesirable consequence to being in that state. A werewolf should not be in full control of the beast within. There needs to be some risk that it will go out of control, and potentially put you in harm's way (perhaps from guards, when you go berserk devouring innocents, or what have you). The same is true of Vampirism. My face looks different, and I have a new power to drain life from foes... but that's about it.

The problem is, in an MMO, you need to balance these systems against a player who cannot pause the game, or restore an old save point. How much would it suck if Werewolves randomly lost control of their urges, and also had a perminent kill on sight bounty system. Then, you had to get up because your kid just injured themselves, and while you were away, your werewolf lost control of their transform, and incurred a permanent bounty, irrevocably losing access to NPC services?

Made worse if you added a permadeath element, which some MMOs tried. "Sorry, Morgha_Kul Jr, I see you're bleeding, but I've got to log out first?" Yeak. No.

You seem to be missing the point. Being a vampire (or werewolf) is SUPPOSED to be a curse. It's something that SHOULD be inconvenient in some way. In the literature, those ways are well defined. Vampires can't go out during the day, and are hunted by the authorities as predators. Werewolves have little control of themselves when they're in their wolf form, often killing innocents, and are also hunted as predators.

Now, I realize that some of this won't work in an MMO where there is a day/night cycle. You can't really burn the vampires in daylight, because the player can't always just play at night. What you CAN do is take away his vampiric powers during the day. He'd still be hunted by the authorities, though. Likewise, a werewolf that kills an innocent and is flagged as a murderer by the authorities is exactly the point of that loss of control. That's why it wouldn't be a RANDOM loss of control. You would have to take steps to prevent it (such as feeding to limit your hunger).

As far as having something unfortunate happen in the game while you're afk doing something else important (such as attending to the kids, or just taking a bio break)... that HAPPENS already. My new Templar character, who had NEVER been defeated by anything, a point of some pride on my part, was defeated while in the Halls of the Dead while I was in the bathroom, because someone decided to draw a fight right to where I'd safely stopped the character. It was frustrating... but it's a game, and I got on with it.

Again, a curse that has no negative effect is not a curse. There needs to be something.

VaranisArano

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

What's the point of being a vampire lord if you can use the form for at most 2 hours out of every 6?
(...)
*Logs on wanting to play Vampire Lord

Look to ultimates. You can use then in a minority of the time. I can use the same argument "what is the point of be able to summon an storm atronach if you can only maintain storm atronach for an fraction of time"?

You can assume the form. You will just take sun damage. Taking 800 damage per sec means that if you use dark exchange, you can maintain yourself as a vampire lord for a relative long time.

Probably because the best equivalent Ultimate is the Werewolf Form. Its an ultimate that grants a transformation.

Werewolf doesn't have a "You can use this at full power for approx 2 hours and for the next 4 hours you'll have to not use it or else spam something to restore your health" (Dark Exchange being a sorc exclusive skill and not available to everyone) type condition.

For Werewolf, you gain ultimate, and then can extend your time in form via werewolf specific mechanics, regardless of the time of day. For Werewolf, maintaining your form and the buffs/debuffs are 100% in the player's control.

What time of day it is on the servers is NOT under player control.

Look, I get that you are okay with have how an Ultimate works being dependent on something that the player doesn't control - the time of day on the server. I think it would be really annoying. In fact, I think it makes the Vampire Lord form far clunkier and inferior to the current Vampire, which may be less powerful but at least I can control 100% of how it plays and when I play it no matter what time of server day/night I log on during.

And nothing you've said fixes or even addresses this problem for me. How the Vampire Lord plays depends on something out of my control: the server's day/night cycle.

Its an awesome sounding ultimate...assuming I only play at night (out of my control) or the limited types of content that take place inside and not exposed to sunlight, which is limited to only a portion of the gameplay in ESO.

That's a limitation no other Ultimate shares. The nearest equivalent, Werewolf, doesn't have any gameplay limitations like that.

Its an limitation of content and reliance on the day/night that I can't control that make this an ultimate I would never use. Its certainly inferior to the vampire lord playstyle in Skyrim where players could control the time of day/night to make the most of their Vampire Lord abilities.

starkerealm

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

Being a vampire (or werewolf) is SUPPOSED to be a curse.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

As far as having something unfortunate happen in the game while you're afk doing something else important (such as attending to the kids, or just taking a bio break)... that HAPPENS already. My new Templar character, who had NEVER been defeated by anything, a point of some pride on my part, was defeated while in the Halls of the Dead while I was in the bathroom, because someone decided to draw a fight right to where I'd safely stopped the character. It was frustrating... but it's a game, and I got on with it.

Again, a curse that has no negative effect is not a curse. There needs to be something.

The difference is, while that experience is disappointing. I've been there, though, on the end of technical issues. Having severe consequences for failure however escalates this a bit though. Especially given this is an MMO, and it's common to spend hundreds of hours working on a character. Burning that because of a de-sync or real life is infuriating. Case in point, right now I was just sneaking through Rawl'Kha with a bounty, and the game just crashed. If I just lost everything I was carrying, I'm going to be pissed.

If you want to make your life less comfortable as a werewolf, you can impose slotting the ultimate on yourself and not giving yourself the option to unslot it. (Just, please don't do this if you're queuing as a tank or healer; your team needs their support members.)

Alternately, if you want to, "cheese it," you can slot the wolf active abilities on your normal skill bar. This doesn't cause Werewolf to level, but will raise those skills, helping your character become a better wolf. It's also kinda a curse, because you lose full skill slots.

The irony is, you're making life more difficult for yourself, but you're not doing it without purpose. So, you can make this into a curse, but it's not forced upon you. Of course, once you've mastered it... well, you've mastered it. Remember, not everyone on Tamriel considers lycanthropy a curse, your character could very well get to the point where you view it as a Blessing of Hircine.

Something really important to remember about The Elder Scrolls. Both Vampirism and Lycanthropy are afflictions that grant their barer new powers, but permanently bind their soul to one of the Daedric Princes. Most consider this a bad thing, but not everyone. Just because a devout worshiper of the Divnes considers Lycanthropy a curse doesn't mean your character would.

idk

I am surprised this thread is still alive. Give it a rest.

Yes, OP has an opinion and that is fine. Let them have it. Being it is much more complicated than anything in the game and it is based on single player games along with stuff that is totally irrelevant I doubt Zos gives the idea a second thought.

OP expressed their idea, we expressed out opinion. Lets more on.

Karmanorway

L0rdV1ct0r wrote: »

I an a huge elder scrolls fan. My first game was Oblivion but i've played Morrowind for over 450 hours and honestly, one think that i don't like on most recent games like Skyrim is the lack of consequences, the attributes are too simple. For ESO, i understand that an mmo can't have people using boots of blinding speed, casting damage attribute and levitation for eg since it will break the game balance but i believe that if you become an vampire, you need to deal with downsides On Daggerfall, you have an incredible high sun damage and will be considered "dead", so you gonna lose lose a lot of guild progression ranks but will gain immunity to any iron/steel weapon. On Morrowind, you will be shunned and take sun damage. On Oblivion, on first stage you will take no damage but in second, third and foth(first game to have vampire stages), will take gradually more sun damage. On Skyrim, sun only makes you weaker. Sure, you can argue that since you are in an very cold place, the sunshine is weaker than for example in Hammerfell desert.

But in ESO, you can be an pale nordic with max advanced vampirism walking during midday, in middle of Hammerfell desert and suffer nothing. So, i wold suggest, an new type of skill tree that can be get once maximized vampire skill line. The vampire lord. Similar to vampire lord for Skyrim


Vampire lord will be a transformation like werewolf. And the maximizing it, should give +50% health, 500 damage/second(and zero regen while exposed to sun) while exposed to sun, 80% weakness to fire, 4000 weapon damage and spell damage, but will be attacked by all npc's on sight and most of his skills will cost partially health. Some suggestions :

- Blood bolt - Deals X damage, costs A magicka and B vitallity, can be morphed into blood spear that costs more health but deals much more damage or blood arrow that has increased range and lower cost
- Summon gargoyle - Costs X health, can be morphed to costs stamina or to heal the caster when the gargoyle deals damage
- Enslave - Costs magicka/stamina, can be used to take control over enemy for a time(pve) or paralize the enemy(pvp), can be morphed to increase duration or reduce the cost

Ultimate :
- Blood boil - Remember the highest thaumaturgy "discipline" from vtmb"? That is it. Make the target's blood boils and deals an incredible amount of damage. If the target dies, his blood will damage nearby enemies.

So, will be a new skill line, requiring much more investment and situational. Will only be useful during the night or dungeons. It will be an completely optional transformation.

Any opinions??

Your dream came true man 😉👍

starkerealm

Vanos444

If you want vampire lords to get sun damage then they should be OP during the night.
Like, unkillable, massive damage and able to teleport or leap areas that even dk wings can't currently but used to on Beta stages.

drkfrontiers

This tread is the walking dead. Rather apt.

ZaroktheImmortal

ArchMikem wrote: »

Whyd i never think of that? Why dont player Vampires take damage, no matter how small, or even a healing debuff from being in direct sunlight? It reminds me of the Vampire in the sulfur pools of Eastmarch. "The sun hurts me more than you know!"

Make the sun hurt the player.

Maybe because in an MMO it'd take off a lot of play time from vampire players if they made it so vampire players in general take sunlight damage and unlike a single player game we can't just skip ahead in time to when the sun won't be out. That would be a terrible idea. As for should a vampire lord form take sunlight damage? I don't think that's the best solution one idea I thought of it they give us a vampire lord form to balance out the two werewolf and vampire is give werewolves passives and such that work while they're not in their werewolf form

Morgha_Kul

See, the thing is, it's an MMO, not just an action game where all you do is battle, battle, battle. A huge part of any MMO is being part of the SETTING, and that includes all the effects of being part of the world of the game. I mean, why bother with day or night at all, if you don't want to have to deal with the effects of day and night? Water is such a bother, why put that in the game world, it just gets in the way?

Being a Vampire is something that SHOULD have limitations. Yes, it should be SEVERELY limited during the day, but it should also be EXTREMELY powerful at night. This would need some kind of balancing in PvP, of course, but that's something that's manageable. Perhaps a totem or some such, that limits the power of Vampires in Cyrodiil, but also allows them to function during the day. I'm sure they could come up with something.