Combat is boring.

Zardayne

Aurielle wrote: »

What the OP is neglecting to tell you is that all endgame LOTRO Wardens worth their weight used gambit masteries to cut down on the number of button combinations they had to input during their rotations, because NOBODY has time to click five buttons to fire off a single ability.

I thought the warden was an awesome class ( I played a loremaster and a Captain though). Then again I like MMOS that have some skills based off of reactions like parrying, blocking, evading etc. We had a lot of those in Daoc, Lotro, Warhammer, and AOC and they brought flavor to the combat. We used to also have CC that was fun to use as well which this game is scared to death of. To me combat is more fun when I feel like it's more tactical and engaging and it's not just a dps race. Sometimes I feel like MMO combat has took a step back instead of progressing.

Lucky for me the scenery in ESO is great, because since the open betas I've never been too thrilled with the combat. This is especially true when all my stamina and mag character use the majority of the same abilities other than a few sprinkled in class specific ones. I think @MLGProPlayer said it best in his earlier post.

StormeReigns

Vyvrhel wrote: »

No.

Tannus15

ESO combat needs to be "boring" because it's focus is on movement and positioning unlike tab target auto attack systems with skill cool down timers where the order of skills is the important part of combat.

This means if you're finding the combat boring, the problem is not the combat, but the content.
Do harder content and you'll be engaged.

asuzab16_ESO

I absolutely love ESO and I've been playing it since the release but I can understand how someone can find the gameplay repetitive and simple. I had a lot of troubles getting into the game during my first months and I think the main reason was because I was playing stamina. Depending on your tastes, the stamina classes' gameplay can feel really poor and repetitive, and I personally believe it's the weapon skills' fault. These skills have really simple mechanics and strongly lack variety and synergy. I tried every stamina class during the first years but I kept finding the gameplay boring. I still liked the game and mained a StamNB for a long time but it kept feeling really underwhelming and rudimental compared to my rogues on other MMOs. It actually started making me want to stop playing the game.

However, because the gameplay was the only thing turning me away from ESO, I decided to break up with my long tradition of playing only non magical characters in MMOs and made a MagDK and a MagNB and damn, did it make a difference! These classes offer so much more possibilities and more importantly, they use a lot of more class skills. Class skills have more complex mechanics and way more synergy between them that weapon skills do. It is still quite repetitive compared to some other games, but personally, it is still good enough to enjoy the gameplay without feeling bored and it was a huge improvement compared to stamina that I won't play anymore unless ZOS does an overall for the weapon skills or makes more stamina morphs for the class skills.

Anyway, if you've only played stamina and find the gameplay boring but want to keep playing the game, I can only suggest that you give magicka a chance.

MLGProPlayer

Tannus15 wrote: »

ESO combat needs to be "boring" because it's focus is on movement and positioning unlike tab target auto attack systems with skill cool down timers where the order of skills is the important part of combat.

This means if you're finding the combat boring, the problem is not the combat, but the content.
Do harder content and you'll be engaged.

GW2 has action-based combat as well, but it's considerably more fun than ESO's due to all the unique class mechanics.

Jameliel

Agree OP. All these "skilled" players couldn't compete in Age of Conan, a game that actually required skill in PvP.

russelmmendoza

Vyvrhel wrote: »

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Go back to those games you like playing.

I for one, loves the combat in this game, even though my redblade has been nerf so many times.

Stop telling me what to do. You obviously do not understand what I wrote.

Still stands, your not gonna get that button combo you want here in eso.

Youll only get that button combo you want in those games you like.

HowlKimchi

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The biggest issue with the combat for me is that there is no class diversity.

All stamina classes use the same abilities since they rely on weapon skills.

All magicka classes just have recolours of the same abilities. Whether they drop an ice, lighting or fire rectangle or circle on the ground, whether they shoot a fireball, bird, or elemental projectile from their staff, etc., it's all the same ***.

There are no unique abilities in this game.

In games like GW2 or WoW, every class feels unique. In ESO, it really doesn't matter what class you play as they all have the same exact play style. The only differences are in the colours of the abilities (for stamina, there isn't even that) and passive damage boosts.

I will have to agree with you on this one. But only in PVE. In PVP classes are pretty varied from each other.

in PVE, it's always "buffs->ground dot 1-> ground dot 2->dot 3->spammable -> repeat"

Ilithyania

HaruKamui wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The biggest issue with the combat for me is that there is no class diversity.

All stamina classes use the same abilities since they rely on weapon skills.

All magicka classes just have recolours of the same abilities. Whether they drop an ice, lighting or fire rectangle or circle on the ground, whether they shoot a fireball, bird, or elemental projectile from their staff, etc., it's all the same ***.

There are no unique abilities in this game.

In games like GW2 or WoW, every class feels unique. In ESO, it really doesn't matter what class you play as they all have the same exact play style. The only differences are in the colours of the abilities (for stamina, there isn't even that) and passive damage boosts.

I will have to agree with you on this one. But only in PVE. In PVP classes are pretty varied from each other.

in PVE, it's always "buffs->ground dot 1-> ground dot 2->dot 3->spammable -> repeat"

agree. i feel the different classes shine brighter in diveristy in PvP then PvE atm.

MLGProPlayer

HaruKamui wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The biggest issue with the combat for me is that there is no class diversity.

All stamina classes use the same abilities since they rely on weapon skills.

All magicka classes just have recolours of the same abilities. Whether they drop an ice, lighting or fire rectangle or circle on the ground, whether they shoot a fireball, bird, or elemental projectile from their staff, etc., it's all the same ***.

There are no unique abilities in this game.

In games like GW2 or WoW, every class feels unique. In ESO, it really doesn't matter what class you play as they all have the same exact play style. The only differences are in the colours of the abilities (for stamina, there isn't even that) and passive damage boosts.

I will have to agree with you on this one. But only in PVE. In PVP classes are pretty varied from each other.

in PVE, it's always "buffs->ground dot 1-> ground dot 2->dot 3->spammable -> repeat"

That's an interesting point. You're probably right (as I only PvE).

MartiniDaniels

Unrealistic, irritating and clunky? Yes. Boring? No.

usmcjdking

There was this little indie game that game out about 12 years ago called The Void.

The combat in that game was basically entering bullet time, then MS painting, as quickly you could, your hand movements which would turn into some sort of arcane spell.

As lovely as that was, there is no place for that in ESO. The best combo weapon in ESO is 2H.

Beardimus

PvE i see where you are coming from.
PvP i disagree as it's more dynamic

Nerouyn

Asys wrote: »

And Age of Conan was the most slow combat system. Sooo booooring

Yeah. If I had to pick a game with combat I like least, AoC would at least be a serious contender.

And because they used AoC players to beta test TSW, surprise surprise, it's combat was of a similar style.

Neither games were very popular and their combat systems are a big part of that.

I hate animation cancelling, weaving, rotations etc. and we desperately need more magicka damage skills - especially warden - but in general ESO's combat system is solid.

The one thing they could do to massively improve it would be to completely rethink synergies. Pressing X is so banal. It would be way cooler if eg. some class abilities produced different - and very importantly logical - effects used in combination with other class abilities.

eg. dragonknight fire breath used on a warden ice patch could produce boiling steam, doing damage over time plus impairing vision (i.e. reduced damage output).

Vyvrhel

Itsmichi wrote: »

Then please come back after you did all that mentioned above, check this very thread, laugh very hard reading it and judge with a decent amount of experience in combats. Thank you.

No - ABSOLUTELY not. You obviously do not understand I am talking about COMBAT. Combat is something what occurs everywhere in the game, be it the raiding you mention, OR dungeons, overland, whatever. Can you understand the difference between raid and combat? Vet + 2 raid is a GROUP ACTIVITY where, of course, combat is involved, too, but what makes it very special is the group cooperation and "knowing the fight" i. e. rote learning, being in the right moment on the right spot and doing the "right thing". And I dare to say I have seen enough raiding in many other MMOs to extrapolate upon the scant experience with raiding in ESO. So, NO, I am not talking about raiding and the remedy to my boredom with combat system in this otherwise superb game is not an one week top raid. Which by the way can soon turn into boring and repetitive equipment / scoreboard grind, too.

Vyvrhel

VaranisArano wrote: »

Like:
Combination 1 - 4 - 2 - 5 charges a shield. Type these keys in that order and then LMB, voila, you are shielded.
vs
MagSorc casts *Hardened Ward* (or insert other damage shields available from other skills/weapons)

Sure. But with the system I mentioned above you can do ALL of it without having the skill equipped and pull any unexpected and creative combination. While the magsorc will cast just that ward, surge, frags, curse / crushing and liquid with barrage over and over and over and over. Big fun.

Vyvrhel

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

In games like GW2 or WoW, every class feels unique.

I liked GW2 (unlike WoW) but the story and namely dialogues are so very stupid in that game that it became literally unbearable. The endless unskippable cutscenes with the idiotic smalltalk killed the game for me. ESO is way better almost in every aspect.

Alucardo

ESO combat is the only reason I'm still here. If it had a different combat system and the servers were running the way they are, I'd be long gone.

Elwendryll

I played GW2 a little. I just leveled up a character to max level, and did the main quest, and a lot of pvp. The combat system is kind of similar to the ESO one, 2 bars, you can swap, but there are cooldowns and you're stuck with specific abilities for each weapon combination.

The really nice thing was the synergies. Abilities had secondary effects/status effects, that other abilities could proc from. The whole system was really nice, you could create a furtivity AOE, or a flame AOE, or a zone that made you dash forward if you charged in it. A lot of combinations by effects and zone type.

I feel like ESO lacks this kind of setup. Synergies are nice but are too simple. There is not really any relation between two skills except "this one buffs the following one". I hope Necromancer will change that with the corpse management, and positioning requirements for some abilities.

The combat system is fine, dynamic, but I'd love to see more depth to it.

Wifeaggro13

Vyvrhel wrote: »

ESO is a very good game but the combat gets very soon repetitive and boring. I do not want to get into details but suffice to say the most interesting combat systems I ever experienced were in Age of Conan and LOTRO - the Warden class. The principle was that a proper combination of basic attacks / skills / keys charged a powerful effect which was then auto fired or triggered by another key.

Consider introducing a new skill line (maybe a kind of magic?) which would work the same way: specific combinations of the five basic keys would charge a light attack with a new and strong effect, cc, defensive, offensive, just anything. The keys used in the combo would use either stamina or magicka and of course there would be combinations to replenish or regenerate the resources. This might lead to true hybrid classes and, which is more interesting, endless PVP whining.

As a footnote, the weaving and animation canceling is good but it strongly depends on the ping and sadly it is rather about adopting the right "beat" than creative thinking.

Ots not boring it's simple hack and slash . The games you mention had a much more defined role system . AOC was a pioneer in this kind of combat mechanic. Its class system was superior to this and combat group dynamics far better then ESO .tanks and healers were required there was no cheese your way through with dps. Eso could have a great combat system if it were not so dps centric and utilized tanking healing and CC/utility as true roles rather then side bars to DPS

Wifeaggro13

Asys wrote: »

And Age of Conan was the most slow combat system. Sooo booooring

Slow? No you had far more actions to take and abilities to use with out canceling the animations. You needed to think more in that game to successfully play your role

srfrogg23

Vyvrhel wrote: »

ESO is a very good game but the combat gets very soon repetitive and boring. I do not want to get into details but suffice to say the most interesting combat systems I ever experienced were in Age of Conan and LOTRO - the Warden class. The principle was that a proper combination of basic attacks / skills / keys charged a powerful effect which was then auto fired or triggered by another key.

Consider introducing a new skill line (maybe a kind of magic?) which would work the same way: specific combinations of the five basic keys would charge a light attack with a new and strong effect, cc, defensive, offensive, just anything. The keys used in the combo would use either stamina or magicka and of course there would be combinations to replenish or regenerate the resources. This might lead to true hybrid classes and, which is more interesting, endless PVP whining.

As a footnote, the weaving and animation canceling is good but it strongly depends on the ping and sadly it is rather about adopting the right "beat" than creative thinking.

Yup, sounds like an opinion.

GET 'EM!!!

eliisra

Sure, I also played games with better, smoother and more interactive combat. But those games had other issues, like lacking content, bad PvE or bad PvP, lacking fun, to much cash shop p2w, bad systems, repetitive or even more balancing issues than ESO to name a few.

You cant really find a game that's "best" at absolutely everything sadly. ESO combat is good enough imo, as in at least more interesting than in mmorpgs where you tab target and press a macro lol. It's far more things than just combat or flashy animations that makes a game fun longterm.

Stx

If you find combat boring, maybe try using different skills.

I'm leveling a redgaurd melee sorcerer and I love charging in, hitting mobs with an uppercut, cleaving them, then smashing them with an execute.

Even just the basics of blocking heavy attacks, bashing casters, and dodging out of traps/fire is fun to me in the midst of combat.

I've never played lotro but the combat system you are describing probably wouldnt fit in an elder scrolls mmo.

JediCody

Vyvrhel wrote: »

ESO is a very good game but the combat gets very soon repetitive and boring. I do not want to get into details but suffice to say the most interesting combat systems I ever experienced were in Age of Conan and LOTRO - the Warden class. The principle was that a proper combination of basic attacks / skills / keys charged a powerful effect which was then auto fired or triggered by another key.

Consider introducing a new skill line (maybe a kind of magic?) which would work the same way: specific combinations of the five basic keys would charge a light attack with a new and strong effect, cc, defensive, offensive, just anything. The keys used in the combo would use either stamina or magicka and of course there would be combinations to replenish or regenerate the resources. This might lead to true hybrid classes and, which is more interesting, endless PVP whining.

As a footnote, the weaving and animation canceling is good but it strongly depends on the ping and sadly it is rather about adopting the right "beat" than creative thinking.

lol

starkerealm

Possibly a stupid question, @Vyvrhel, but, are you familiar with weaving?

Castagere

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The biggest issue with the combat for me is that there is no class diversity.

All stamina classes use the same abilities since they rely on weapon skills.

All magicka classes just have recolours of the same abilities. Whether they drop an ice, lighting or fire rectangle or circle on the ground, whether they shoot a fireball, bird, or elemental projectile from their staff, etc., it's all the same ***.

There are no unique abilities in this game.

In games like GW2 or WoW, every class feels unique. In ESO, it really doesn't matter what class you play as they all have the same exact play style. The only differences are in the colours of the abilities (for stamina, there isn't even that) and passive damage boosts.

This 100%
This is why the combat gets boring. In other MMO's the classes always have different abilities and they look it when used. And the small hotbar makes it worse.

Sergykid

never saw a templar playing cloak style or a nightblade playing house style

Zardayne

Nerouyn wrote: »

Asys wrote: »

And Age of Conan was the most slow combat system. Sooo booooring

Yeah. If I had to pick a game with combat I like least, AoC would at least be a serious contender.

And because they used AoC players to beta test TSW, surprise surprise, it's combat was of a similar style.

Neither games were very popular and their combat systems are a big part of that.

I hate animation cancelling, weaving, rotations etc. and we desperately need more magicka damage skills - especially warden - but in general ESO's combat system is solid.

The one thing they could do to massively improve it would be to completely rethink synergies. Pressing X is so banal. It would be way cooler if eg. some class abilities produced different - and very importantly logical - effects used in combination with other class abilities.

eg. dragonknight fire breath used on a warden ice patch could produce boiling steam, doing damage over time plus impairing vision (i.e. reduced damage output).

TSW combat was different than AOC and it was super clunky. I heard they were going to make it better with their revamped version of the game but I never tried it. The game was fun but the animations ruined it.

AOC's combat was new and exciting for MMO combat. I loved the fatalities (similar to skyrim). Each skill began with one or two directional buttons to make it fire off and by the end it I believe you originally had up to 4 (I think they finally toned it done). The bad thing about having to do 4 or 5 quick buttons in order was carpal tunnel set in quickly lol. I think thats why they cut down the required buttons. IMO it had nothing to do with the combat that hurt Conan, it was the lack of content when the game released. It's been awhile but it was awesome until you hit your 30s (if I remember right) and the content dropped off for 10 lvls and you had to run these repeatable quests in these buildings in town. It got old quick. Also, some of the dungeons on release were not finished and it took them quite awhile to get that straight. By the time they did, newer MMOs had came out and alot of us (myself and co workers) moved on to them. Most of the time when I leave an MMO, I don't go back unless the newer games are worse.

I'd agree with you on the synergies. Something like Divinity Original sin did when mixing of abilities gave additional results.

Donnasnowheart_ESO

Sounds like Op should honestly try pvp it makes you actively use all your skills and abilities defensive and offensive. Eso as a whole could def use more depth when it comes to its synergy system or creating some sort of combination effect.