Can Anyone Honestly Say PvP Is Better W/Out OP Siege?

Vapirko

Aside from those who regularly run in giant groups either as a part of that zerg or as a zerg surfer, can anyone honestly say PvP is better now that it’s over? Sure people might have been setting up siege to Xv1 but how is that better than 20+ players stacking together because they know nothing can stand against them except another group of equal size? The level of zerging that goes on is just disgusting and the lag is back to being horrendous. People say that stronger siege stopped people from fighting but I strongly disagree. PvP is back to FD stacking without shame and PvP has once again split into two groups, those who zerg keeps and those who want nothing to do with keep takes and go off to farm a resource or gate. As someone who tries to do a bit of both, playing the map is a real *** downer. It’s headache inducing, how banal most bigger fights are. Run over or be run over and rarely anything in between.

idk

I do not think you will get anything other than peoples opinions. They can give you their honest opinion, but it will be nothing more than an opinion.

Karm1cOne

I liked the lack of major lag, but I feel there is a compromise between killed in 2 ticks and bathing in siege without dying.

VaranisArano

I liked the Summerset buffs to catapults in CP PVP. The extra damage challenged even organized raids with dedicated healers and made it very difficult for disorganized groups to capture defended keeps.

However, ZOS reverted that buff with Wolfhunter.

So what's the reason why ZOS should reverse their course and buff siege to Summerset levels or above? They already tried it and reverted it once.

Rikumaru

If ZOS didn't nerf small scalers patch after patch maybe there would be more interesting fights in Cyrodill. It's mostly about numbers now and the only people to blame is the ones who caused the small scalers the nerfs in the first place. You need to be much much better than the enemy to win fights outnumbered now. This is especially true in no-cp, I barely ever see anyone playing out there alone nowadays.

Imo the solution to this isn't buffing siege to dumb levels, that in my eyes isn't PvP but rather giving power back to small scale / solo players and shifting back towards a more bursty meta, that way it's less about numbers but more about player skill.

Fatalyis

That week or so when siege was super deadly was the most fun I’d had in ESO in a long time. You had to constantly be on your toes. Trying to take a keep was rough and I loved it!

Now, we’re back to standing in 4 oils with a ram and just healing through it. It’s boring.

Siege should be feared...taking a keep should be difficult. Risk / reward.

My two cents.

SirAndy

Fatalyis wrote: »

That week or so when siege was super deadly was the most fun I’d had in ESO in a long time. You had to constantly be on your toes. Trying to take a keep was rough and I loved it!
Now, we’re back to standing in 4 oils with a ram and just healing through it. It’s boring.
Siege should be feared...taking a keep should be difficult. Risk / reward.

Wing

well I think that the idea of coldfire needs to be removed and all siege buffed up to the point of desired strength, right now coldfire is bad for the balance. because if normal siege is good, then coldfire is OP, if coldfire is just good, then normal siege is terrible.

I also don't mind oils being buffed quite a bit, there very niche and specific in where you can use them and it was nice to force groups of players just ramming down a keep to actually siege it.

when the oils were deadly I think we got some of the best actual siege fights, as it forced siege other then rams and multiple breaches, those felt like very good fights rather then the stack on a single ram and heal through everything while it opens the door for you.

CatchMeTrolling

The problem with siege and cyrodiil is the fact there’s really no place for small scale and solo players when it comes to design. There’s so many times where I’m either by myself or a few random people are with me at a keep/outposts and you just get steam rolled. The little oils up top does nothing to the zerg below.

Thogard

Umm.. yes.

Alucardo

Well, now that siege is near useless against players people are actually starting to fight each other normally. It was getting boring seeing nothing but siege, even in small scale battles that could have potentially been fun

Xsorus

What you don’t think a 20 man standing in a siege shield healing all siege damage is fun? Lol

kollege14a5

tbh they could increase siege dmg by 1000% pvp would still be the same lag ***

zyk

Prime time Vivec was much better with strong siege. Night and day better. I have been too repulsed to play since it was fixed.

But it was just a band-aid. I think the underlying problem OP siege fixed is the 'tank meta' that can make any average player extremely difficult to kill if they choose to build that way. Unfortunately, more choose to build that way every day, it seems.

Fatalyis

kollege14a5 wrote: »

tbh they could increase siege dmg by 1000% pvp would still be the same lag ***

I personally thought the game ran a hell of a lot smoother with increased siege damage, seemingly because it caused the ball groups and zergs to break up.

Iskiab

Yes

Vapirko

Iskiab wrote: »

Yes

What about it is more enjoyable for you with no way to break up zergs other than another zerg which turns the whole thing into a lag fest? Genuinely curious.

Crixus8000

Siege currently is a joke, I can tank 4 oils by myself in no cp without purge but the recent siege issue needed to be fixed imo, it was dealing oblivion damage, 15k a tick and no protection or anything decreased it, this was so deadly in no cp and while it might have been fun to clear large groups with a single ballista I don't think it was healthy for the game. Tbh I don't mind oil and slower siege being very strong but the ballistas (especially coldharbour) was a massive issue since they have little counterplay when near keep walls, they fire so fast that you can't avoid them, no matter how good you are, and 15k a tick is too much to outheal, so you had to roll over and over and destroy your entire stam pool or die.

TBois

Just change it back to hard hitting meatbags and scattershots for cp pvp. The damage of the bugged seige was too high but seige needs to be a threat coordinated groups.

Vapirko

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Siege currently is a joke, I can tank 4 oils by myself in no cp without purge but the recent siege issue needed to be fixed imo, it was dealing oblivion damage, 15k a tick and no protection or anything decreased it, this was so deadly in no cp and while it might have been fun to clear large groups with a single ballista I don't think it was healthy for the game. Tbh I don't mind oil and slower siege being very strong but the ballistas (especially coldharbour) was a massive issue since they have little counterplay when near keep walls, they fire so fast that you can't avoid them, no matter how good you are, and 15k a tick is too much to outheal, so you had to roll over and over and destroy your entire stam pool or die.

There does need to be a distinction between CP and no CP for sure. But I came to enjoy the almost unsurvivable damage. It kept you on your toes. Now I basically just go AFK on ram. Imo two types of players didn't like the high damage siege, those who cannot survive without a giant group around them and those who do little else but farm resources/troll noobs. For the rest of us in the middle who can hold their own but still play the map to some extent I think the OP siege was great. Because we're the ones who really dont like zergs but are also usually at the fights where those zergs show up because we're unlikely to ride 20 min the long way around the map and put up an FC for some YT clips. Idk if we are the minority or the majority but there's a very clear group of people for whom the OP siege broke the monotony of Cyrodiil and made it interesting again.

Mr_Walker

Yes, I can honestly say this.

Digiman

So Cyrodil is back to zergs again?

WuffyCerulei

Yes, it's better. It's not pugs merely pouring oils and yeeting entire groups. It's actual pvp again, not player vs siege that has no counters except high af health. I'm not against buffing siege damage in the future in CP campaigns tho. Several sieges, i.e. iceball trebuchet, lightning ballista, and scattershot catapult, all need buffs.

And people, Cyrodiil is designed for large fights. Maybe the servers can't handle it, but the general idea is for faction vs faction battles. Y'know, like war. Watch this older cinematic vid of ESO. It essential shows what the pvp in Cyrodiil is supposed to be similar to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MySC13H_2cE

TheBonesXXX

Who'da thunk it that if they didn't half powerful Siege at the assigned skill spam would return.

I think this game was in a better State when ground AoEs could overlap each other and moved around the field to create player made chokes and points of contention.

Before this immense disparity between damage and tankiness.

It should be groups creating chokes and movement with their abilities like it used to be, I remember when we could drop Lightning Splash on a Talons and people were hurting.

Or Gravity on a Standard and it be extremely effective.

I also remember when big blobs of stupid used to die to ground oils and ballistas from a few well coached new players.

I remember when Executes were on an actual technical level and required a level proficiency. Not just silly spam.

There was a time that coordinated groups stayed away from their faction zerg. Not so much anymore.

Vapirko

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Yes, it's better. It's not pugs merely pouring oils and yeeting entire groups. It's actual pvp again, not player vs siege that has no counters except high af health. I'm not against buffing siege damage in the future in CP campaigns tho. Several sieges, i.e. iceball trebuchet, lightning ballista, and scattershot catapult, all need buffs.

And people, Cyrodiil is designed for large fights. Maybe the servers can't handle it, but the general idea is for faction vs faction battles. Y'know, like war. Watch this older cinematic vid of ESO. It essential shows what the pvp in Cyrodiil is supposed to be similar to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MySC13H_2cE

Yeah we’ve all seen the dream that should have been, but it isn’t and it never will be. And again, that siege week might have seen pugs pouring oils instead of fighting but now they just stack in massive groups instead of fighting. At least with the OP siege you had a way of breaking it up. Oils have a finite range. They can be easily avoided and we still took keeps during that week. To avoid the zergs you have to avoid most of the map, to avoid siege you just step to the side, and a smart player can use it to an exponential effect. I know which one I choose.

NightAngel690

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with siege and cyrodiil is the fact there’s really no place for small scale and solo players when it comes to design. There’s so many times where I’m either by myself or a few random people are with me at a keep/outposts and you just get steam rolled. The little oils up top does nothing to the zerg below.

Don’t try to a take a keep with a small scale group then

zyk

No game plays like its cinematic trailer. I love large scale fights, but what you see in that video will never, ever happen in ESO.

However, it's ironic the person who posted the video is against strong siege because the siege in that video is obviously very powerful. We also know powerful siege was part of the original design of the game because siege at launch was relatively strong as it was when it was bugged recently.

Players need to be limited in their ability to overwhelm the server one way or another. You can't say "deal with crippling server lag that renders your abilities useless because it's supposed to be large scale."

We still had large scale fights when siege was bugged. There were as many players at big objective fights, but they were more spread out and died quickly when condensed.

Vapirko

zyk wrote: »

No game plays like its cinematic trailer. I love large scale fights, but what you see in that video will never, ever happen in ESO.

However, it's ironic the person who posted the video is against strong siege because the siege in that video is obviously very powerful. We also know powerful siege was part of the original design of the game because siege at launch was relatively strong as it was when it was bugged recently.

Players need to be limited in their ability to overwhelm the server one way or another. You can't say "deal with crippling server lag that renders your abilities useless because it's supposed to be large scale."

We still had large scale fights when siege was bugged. There were as many players at big objective fights, but they were more spread out and died quickly when condensed.

Agreed. I hated the OP siege at first, but as I played throughout the week I came to realize its merits and I have a hunch that many people who hated it did not stick around that week to see how things panned out, especially when people say that it was PvSiege (or are the people who clump together). I know for sure a lot of streamers opted out of that week and I’m sure many followed their example. But because people had to spread out during keep siege there seemed to actually be more opportunity for 1v1 and small scale clashes within the context of a larger fight, and the really big zerg groups that you normally see rolling the map were gone or easily dispersed.

jaime1982

kollege14a5 wrote: »

tbh they could increase siege dmg by 1000% pvp would still be the same lag ***

Where were you when siege was op?

CatchMeTrolling

NightAngel690 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with siege and cyrodiil is the fact there’s really no place for small scale and solo players when it comes to design. There’s so many times where I’m either by myself or a few random people are with me at a keep/outposts and you just get steam rolled. The little oils up top does nothing to the zerg below.

Don’t try to a take a keep with a small scale group then

Learn how to read first.

Vapirko

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

NightAngel690 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

The problem with siege and cyrodiil is the fact there’s really no place for small scale and solo players when it comes to design. There’s so many times where I’m either by myself or a few random people are with me at a keep/outposts and you just get steam rolled. The little oils up top does nothing to the zerg below.

Don’t try to a take a keep with a small scale group then

Learn how to read first.

Yep this is definitely one of the biggest benefits to OP siege. A few decent players can get together and stop the 15 pvdoor pros. Maybe the reason I enjoyed the week more is because I play off hours when population imbalances are more likely to occur.